Club Sale | It’s done!

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Diadoras said:
It's been a strange thing throughout the saga that those in favour of Qatar don't acknowledge or skip over the role that emotional investment has to play. A poster in this thread asked an excellent question; why are myself and others willing to buy electronics manufactured by Foxconn, but are appalled and will walk if Qatar buy United?

The answer is that I am emotionally invested in Manchester United. I identify ( at least for the next week or so) as a United fan. I am not emotionally invested in my phone, I do not follow ITK accounts for Samsung , I am not excited about who they might sign as their next C.F.O. I do not get chills thinking about their last minute dramatic acquisitions in 1999.

Your football club and your breakfast cereal manufacturer are profoundly different things and it's strange to me that people making this argument think you can compare United to other businesses you engage with.
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excellent post, very nicely put.
 
Rhyme Animal said:
You think for a 70 year old Utd fan, watching City and Liverpool hoover up PL titles, CL titles and fecking trebles while Utd rot under the Glazers, knowing that there’s a very good chance they’ll genuinely never in their remaining lifetime see Utd win a meaningful trophy it doesn’t hurt because they experienced success in the past!?

Who the feck are you to tell my Grandad what he can or can’t feel about a club he’s given more to than you or I could’ve possibly done? Seriously.

Likewise, who the feck are you (or I) to gatekeep what other fans view as ‘romance’ in football?

If you wanna declare that Utd will hold no emotional connection for you if Jassim takes it over, that’s fine, I don’t look down on you for that or deny you that - that’s what my post was saying, if you actually read it.

But by the same token, don’t be telling other people who have completely different life experiences than you how they must feel.

I’ve got kids in my family who are 10 and all they’ve really known is Glazers at Utd with City and Liverpool dominating, they will feel the exact same romance and glory you and I did if Utd win a PL under Jassim, you can’t decide otherwise for them.

Likewise I’ve got elderly relatives who just want to see Utd wrestle dominance back from City and again, you are certainly not the person to decide what their emotional connection is with the club.

And it’s not about being a fan of Ratcliffe, or Jassim or anything else. Yes, there’s banter in the thread, and lots of silliness, but no one’s a ‘fan’ of Jassim OR Ratcliffe.

There’s passion because people are desperate for the Glazers to GO. To properly fecking go, and if Ratcliffe was offering that and Jassim was offering the keep them here - I fecking assure you almost every single pro Jassim poster would prefer Ratcliffe.
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How do you reckon supporters of the vast majority of clubs manage? I'm sure Dagenham & Redbridge have elderly fans who are resigned to the fact that they will probably never win the Champions League, but they still persevere because their connection with the club isn't based on silverware. It's based on something.....deeper. If trophies were the only thing that mattered, then we would all (including your relatives) have thrown our United scarves in the bin and headed to the Man City club shop the second that SAF retired, but we haven't because there is a deeper bond with the club.
 
Mockney said:
I mean, Liverpool did it? Madrid have done it? Why Manchester United of all clubs would NEED state ownership to compete is beyond me. We just need to be run properly. It might take a little bit more time than people are willing to wait, but I guarantee it'd mean more. Just as all the titles that have meant more have been the ones we really had to fight for, rather than the ones we won at a canter.

But even so, my post was less about the sad resignation that this is simply the state of football these days and we can do nothing about it (I'm aware of that) as it was how alien and depressing the reaction of some fans in this thread is to it. It's one thing to be resigned, and another to be an active giddy cheerleader for this kind of stuff...and yet more still to take pleasure in goading other fans of your club with it, because they committed the heinous crime of making you feel a little bit bad about it.

People treating this like a transfer saga doing nothing to dissuade from the assumption this is all just an extension of the FIFA/transfer muppet mentality.
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United don't need state ownership, they do need alternative ownership to the Glazers though
 
If I had it my way, there would be no state ownership in football whatsoever. I wish City and Newcastle's ownership models would both be Abramoviched out tonight. In that scenario, and with consistency, I would be more than happy to wave bye bye to Sheikh Jassim.

But under the current circumstances, unfortunately, IMO there are pitfalls to not getting the Qatari's in now
  • Qatar would get a new face and buy another PL club in the next year or two. Liverpool/Spurs/Arsenal - take your pick
  • The Qatari club would then most likely spend the next decade or two sharing out league titles with city and Newcastle while United just hover around
  • United will probably stay in serious debt, unlikely any major infrastructure would take place in the near future
I am not surprised there is so much support for the Qatari side. It would probably be challenged more I think if Ineos could publically state their intentions. At the moment the media aren't telling us the greatest things about that bid. Ratcliffe's PR has been a level below completely shit. I hope his intentions are better if he gets the club

And just for clarity. I'm no huge supporter of either bid. Neither is one I'd feel greatly comfortable with. I can just see why the Qatar bid has support, same way I can see why the INEOS bid does.
 
Mockney said:
It's very strange to me, considering a HUGE part of the United brand is built on that romance. The narrative of Man United IS the narrative of it's self sufficiency. It's winning European Cups with different teams built out of it's academy, or from young players it bought and developed. It's recovering from setbacks & tragedy with it's own players, it's own graft, it's own mythology....United are not remotely the most successful team in football. We never have been. We're not even the most successful English club in Europe. The reason we're so beloved (and so supported) is in huge part thanks to this romantic image of the club... The irony that a lot of the supporters who support us because of this image, are more than happy to tear it down for the (vague) promise of unlimited success is so utterly depressing to me. City's treble was entirely without romance, without narrative, and yet people still looked at it and went "yeah, I wanna sell our soul for that! Gimmie gimme! And what's more I'm gonna celebrate it, and laugh in the face of anyone put off by it, because I get what I want!"

I will remain a United fan, but I will simply care less, in much the same way I care less now than I did as an obsessed 14 year old who used to cut the heads of top players Panini stickers and stick them onto duplicates of our players. Football will remain a part of my life, just a slightly less joyful part. A part I take less pleasure and certainly less pride in, as that will simply ebb away a bit into other things.... It's not a massive deal, but it's sad nonetheless. And the kind of people who consider that something to crow over, I will simply never understand.
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This post absolutely fantastically captures how I feel about the situation as well. Honestly, I'm not even 100% sure if I'll continue to follow United if Qatar win out. As you said, the romance behind it will die and that'll make it really hard to properly invest myself.
 
BD said:
You just want the Qatari billions, and are writing any old shite to justify that without making it seem so hollow. And yet you made it seem even more grim than if you had've just said you want us to have loads of money and win everything, and feck everything else.
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You’re very wrong.

The ‘Qatari billions’ will be useless if Utd don’t / can’t balance the books.

Liverpool don’t need ‘Qatari billions’, neither did Arsenal to seriously challenge City in the league, did they? They didn’t have inept fecking leeches attached to their clubs.

Utd just need the Glazers properly GONE. And whoever is offering to do that is my preference.

My post in reply to Mockney’s hovis advert sentiment was simply saying what it said - ‘romance’ is subjective. There’s nothing controversial or persuasive about it.

You can’t say ‘the romance in football is dead’, because you’re not an omnipresent authority to decide so.
 
pocco said:
No, talking as if we have a god given right to win trophies.
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Hmm I think there is a bit much charge here.
This is sport, the clubs exists to win trophies and its a tradition of the club to win major trophies at that.
Its not a god given right, but the ethos of the club should be to go out and challenge for the top trophies.

You don't actually need state ownership for that mind, but we do need different owners for various reasons
 
Mockney said:
It's very strange to me, considering a HUGE part of the United brand is built on that romance. The narrative of Man United IS the narrative of it's self sufficiency. It's winning European Cups with different teams built out of it's academy, or from young players it bought and developed. It's recovering from setbacks & tragedy with it's own players, it's own graft, it's own mythology....United are not remotely the most successful team in football. We never have been. We're not even the most successful English club in Europe. The reason we're so beloved (and so supported) is in huge part thanks to this romantic image of the club... The irony that a lot of the supporters who support us because of this image, are more than happy to tear it down for the (vague) promise of unlimited success is so utterly depressing to me. City's treble was entirely without romance, without narrative, and yet people still looked at it and went "yeah, I wanna sell our soul for that! Gimmie gimme! And what's more I'm gonna celebrate it, and laugh in the face of anyone put off by it, because I get what I want!"

I will remain a United fan, but I will simply care less, in much the same way I care less now than I did as an obsessed 14 year old who used to cut the heads of top players Panini stickers and stick them onto duplicates of our players. Football will remain a part of my life, just a slightly less joyful part. A part I take less pleasure and certainly less pride in, as that will simply ebb away a bit into other things.... It's not a massive deal, but it's sad nonetheless. And the kind of people who consider that something to crow over, I will simply never understand.
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For me this is how I feel about football as a whole, this is just the way the game has gone. Its not just state ownership either, it started way before that
 
moses said:
With humans everything is selective. I think most people like a bit of democracy and a bit of equality. So having issues, with Qatar is not really nit picking?

Of course it's about opinions. Thats a given?

Some people think human rights are important, others seemingly don't.

Some people think there should be regulations around ownership of cultural assets, some don't.

Some people think that capital accrued should be ethical and some people don't care.

It's all about opinions.
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Ineos have a horrific workers rights record. Ineos have awful environmental record. The major owner of Ineos, Ratcliffe is a documented liar and hypocrite with a disastrous record in owning football clubs.
 
Water Melon said:
I believe that Ratcliffe is a horrible human being due to followings:
- does not give a feck about unions and workers rights (google Teamsters Ohio and Grangemouth unite)
- is a documented lobbist of anti-environmental legislation (google Ineos greenwashing).
-is a well-known hypocrite and liar. Pushed for Brexit, fecked off to Monaco to avoid taxes. Promised to build a car factory in Wales and never did.

Also, he has a horrible proven record of owning football clubs.

A horrendous potential owner of Manchester United.
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But But But... Sportwashing.. that is the only thing that is true, everything is whataboutism.
 
sparx99 said:
They have. Loads of dodgy deals over the years. Sale and lease back of their training ground around the first galactico era was a prominent one.
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Are sure about that? The training ground sale had nothing to do with the King and the amount was nowhere near bailing anyone out.
 
Mockney said:
It's very strange to me, considering a HUGE part of the United brand is built on that romance. The narrative of Man United IS the narrative of it's self sufficiency. It's winning European Cups with different teams built out of it's academy, or from young players it bought and developed. It's recovering from setbacks & tragedy with it's own players, it's own graft, it's own mythology....United are not remotely the most successful team in football. We never have been. We're not even the most successful English club in Europe. The reason we're so beloved (and so supported) is in huge part thanks to this romantic image of the club... The irony that a lot of the supporters who support us because of this image, are more than happy to tear it down for the (vague) promise of unlimited success is so utterly depressing to me. City's treble was entirely without romance, without narrative, and yet people still looked at it and went "yeah, I wanna sell our soul for that! Gimmie gimme! And what's more I'm gonna celebrate it, and laugh in the face of anyone put off by it, because I get what I want!"

I will remain a United fan, but I will simply care less, in much the same way I care less now than I did as an obsessed 14 year old who used to cut the heads of top players Panini stickers and stick them onto duplicates of our players. Football will remain a part of my life, just a slightly less joyful part. A part I take less pleasure and certainly less pride in, as that will simply ebb away a bit into other things.... It's not a massive deal, but it's sad nonetheless. And the kind of people who consider that something to crow over, I will simply never understand.
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yes yes and yes, this sums up my feelings perfect.
Fantatsic post.
 
Spoony said:
Why type of paper is it? I suspect they put 2 and 2 together after the fake tweet and Mbappe news.
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El Pais is a normal national paper. I don't know what their writer has been smocking during the past months but he needs to stop.
 
Rhyme Animal said:
There’s passion because people are desperate for the Glazers to GO. To properly fecking go, and if Ratcliffe was offering that and Jassim was offering to keep them here - I fecking assure you almost every single pro Jassim poster would prefer Ratcliffe.
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I really hate the glazers. But having them as a minority shareholder, without any say on how things are done, doesn't seem too big of a price to pay for not joining the sportswashing club.
 
moses said:
With humans everything is selective. I think most people like a bit of democracy and a bit of equality. So having issues, with Qatar is not really nit picking?

Of course it's about opinions. Thats a given?

Some people think human rights are important, others seemingly don't.

Some people think there should be regulations around ownership of cultural assets, some don't.

Some people think that capital accrued should be ethical and some people don't care.

It's all about opinions.
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This is the problem with the argument here. Its to act like others don't think its important because they don't agree or side with you on this point.
This is the way of the world at the moment though, because people actually only selectively care about human rights anyway (look at the world we live in)
 
Rhyme Animal said:
Utd just need the Glazers properly GONE. And whoever is offering to do that is my preference.
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This! And boot out the debt and the financial crippling its caused in the process. If the new owner builds us a new stadium and facilities, it's only just making up for what glazers have deprived us of thanks to their loans and mismanagement. I'll just see it as things evening out. Then the club can be self sufficient in the transfer market as @Woziak detailed earlier.

Agree with the rest of your post too.
 
Cassidy said:
This is the problem with the argument here. Its to act like others don't think its important because they don't agree or side with you on this point.
This is the way of the world at the moment though, because people actually only selectively care about human rights anyway (look at the world we live in)
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Well no. I'm not acting like anything. The people I'm referring to don't think it's important in relative terms ie objecting or walking away. Yes we all care when there is no price to pay.
 
Mockney said:
Yeah, to be honest the whole Qatari-ness of it all is way down the list of things I'm opposed to. Even though I agree the "But you have a phone!!!??" aspect is an incredibly dumb and disingenuous argument.

My issue has always been that no club should ever have inexhaustible funds. And the idea that money has always been a factor and certain clubs have always been rich is like billionaires blaming millionaires for the state of inequality. It's a ridiculous distraction. Man Utd have always been richer than most, but we also had to loan Wout Weghorst this winter because we've spent so much. We aren't rich enough to not be in a huge amount of debt. Barcelona aren't rich enough to have not basically bankrupted themselves. But City ARE rich enough to never have to worry about those things. They have NO consequences for their bad decisions. And making the only solution to this inequality that everyone needs to go and get in bed with their own despotic feudal oil rich country is an insane one way street to oblivion IMO.

And again, even then, it's one thing to accept this. Another to celebrate it.
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I agree with the gist of the post here - that no club should have inexhaustible funds - but Barcelona is an excellent example of how the rot and the massive gaping inequality in football wouldn't be fixed by simply removing state ownership but nothing else. After all, their near-bankruptcy was followed by... spending a shitload of money on excellent players and winning the league at a canter. Despite the horrendous financial mismanagement and the awful transfer dealings (such as Griezmann, Coutinho, Dembele), they have been highly successful in the last decade. From where I'm sitting it looks like they don't have to worry about consequences all that much.

State ownership isn't the solution; in fact, it makes the problem worse. But it's a symptom, not the disease itself.
 
Water Melon said:
Ineos have a horrific workers rights record. Ineos have awful environmental record. The major owner of Ineos, Ratcliffe is a documented liar and hypocrite with a disastrous record in owning football clubs.
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Correct. What's your point?
 
I’m hoping Sir Jim comes through now. The younger, internet fan seems to want Qatar for obvious reasons. Sure, there will be local matchgoing fans who also prefer Qatar but the majority people I personally know who are Utd fans, don’t want that and prefer the idea of SJR.

Man Utd used to stand for something, I don’t care if City win the next ten Champions League trophies. It will always be tainted.
 
moses said:
Well no. I'm not acting. The people I'm referring to don't think it's important in relative terms ie objecting or walking away. Yes we all care when there is no price to pay.
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Thats not the same as saying they don't care about human rights or don't think its important, and this is the problem with what you are saying.
Not really about there being a price to pay either, social norms (or whats deemed to be socially acceptable) has a lot to do with it to and depending on who you are, where you grew up etc these will be different for many
Example many United fans with middle eastern backgrounds likely won't see things the same way some in the west do
 
Rhyme Animal said:
You think for a 70 year old Utd fan, watching City and Liverpool hoover up PL titles, CL titles and fecking trebles while Utd rot under the Glazers, knowing that there’s a very good chance they’ll genuinely never in their remaining lifetime see Utd win a meaningful trophy it doesn’t hurt because they experienced success in the past!?

Who the feck are you to tell my Grandad what he can or can’t feel about a club he’s given more to than you or I could’ve possibly done? Seriously.

Likewise, who the feck are you (or I) to gatekeep what other fans view as ‘romance’ in football?

If you wanna declare that Utd will hold no emotional connection for you if Jassim takes it over, that’s fine, I don’t look down on you for that or deny you that - that’s what my post was saying, if you actually read it.

But by the same token, don’t be telling other people who have completely different life experiences than you how they must feel.

I’ve got kids in my family who are 10 and all they’ve really known is Glazers at Utd with City and Liverpool dominating, they will feel the exact same romance and glory you and I did if Utd win a PL under Jassim, you can’t decide otherwise for them.

Likewise I’ve got elderly relatives who just want to see Utd wrestle dominance back from City and again, you are certainly not the person to decide what their emotional connection is with the club.

And it’s not about being a fan of Ratcliffe, or Jassim or anything else. Yes, there’s banter in the thread, and lots of silliness, but no one’s a ‘fan’ of Jassim OR Ratcliffe.

There’s passion because people are desperate for the Glazers to GO. To properly fecking go, and if Ratcliffe was offering that and Jassim was offering to keep them here - I fecking assure you almost every single pro Jassim poster would prefer Ratcliffe.
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Yeah, I'm sorry, but this is unhinged man. No one is entitled to win everything, and every club will have thousands of old people who also want to see their club win something before they die.. .most of whom haven't seen them win ANYTHING let alone 3 European cups, countless doubles and a treble in their time! It has nothing to do with anything and it’s hugely distasteful.

I might as well say that City/Liverpool/Arsenal etc have a lot of terminally Ill children as fans, and anyone who wants the last thing they see on this earth to be us battering them in the league with our new Qatari investment is a monster! Or use my dad having a stroke a few years ago as a moral argument to why England deserved to win the Euros so he could see them win. Again, just massively massively distasteful. Give it a rest
 
Rhyme Animal said:
You think for a 70 year old Utd fan, watching City and Liverpool hoover up PL titles, CL titles and fecking trebles while Utd rot under the Glazers, knowing that there’s a very good chance they’ll genuinely never in their remaining lifetime see Utd win a meaningful trophy it doesn’t hurt because they experienced success in the past!?

Who the feck are you to tell my Grandad what he can or can’t feel about a club he’s given more to than you or I could’ve possibly done? Seriously.

Likewise, who the feck are you (or I) to gatekeep what other fans view as ‘romance’ in football?

If you wanna declare that Utd will hold no emotional connection for you if Jassim takes it over, that’s fine, I don’t look down on you for that or deny you that - that’s what my post was saying, if you actually read it.

But by the same token, don’t be telling other people who have completely different life experiences than you how they must feel.

I’ve got kids in my family who are 10 and all they’ve really known is Glazers at Utd with City and Liverpool dominating, they will feel the exact same romance and glory you and I did if Utd win a PL under Jassim, you can’t decide otherwise for them.

Likewise I’ve got elderly relatives who just want to see Utd wrestle dominance back from City and again, you are certainly not the person to decide what their emotional connection is with the club.

And it’s not about being a fan of Ratcliffe, or Jassim or anything else. Yes, there’s banter in the thread, and lots of silliness, but no one’s a ‘fan’ of Jassim OR Ratcliffe.

There’s passion because people are desperate for the Glazers to GO. To properly fecking go, and if Ratcliffe was offering that and Jassim was offering to keep them here - I fecking assure you almost every single pro Jassim poster would prefer Ratcliffe.
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The bolded is all a bunch of strawman arguments. The poster never said how you should feel, he only expressed how he feels and it seems you can't deal with it.

Furthermore, there are fans of other clubs who will never experience a fraction of the success United has and yet they still support without the entitlement. Crazy thought.
 
Water Melon said:
You are spot on there mate. However, sometimes it is just best to ignore certain posts and posters.
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Just a single hour after you say it's spot on that you can't just act "houlier than thou" selectively, which is the trotted line when people criticize Qatar, you go in hard on Ineos and Ratcliffe.

Water Melon said:
I believe that Ratcliffe is a horrible human being due to followings:
- does not give a feck about unions and workers rights (google Teamsters Ohio and Grangemouth unite)
- is a documented lobbist of anti-environmental legislation (google Ineos greenwashing).
-is a well-known hypocrite and liar. Pushed for Brexit, fecked off to Monaco to avoid taxes. Promised to build a car factory in Wales and never did.

Also, he has a horrible proven record of owning football clubs.

A horrendous potential owner of Manchester United.
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Water Melon said:
Indeed. He has horrible human rights and environmental record, whilst being a known liar and hypocrite. In bed with the Saudis where he will build another factory with awful conditions for construction workers.
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Water Melon said:
Ineos have a horrific workers rights record. Ineos have awful environmental record. The major owner of Ineos, Ratcliffe is a documented liar and hypocrite with a disastrous record in owning football clubs.
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One hour!

I expect you're just getting ready to go in on Qatar, and then every single bad entity on earth as well? If not it would be you acting houlier than thou, surely.
 
Cassidy said:
Thats not the same as saying they don't care about human rights or don't think its important, and this is the problem with what you are saying.
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That's hyper sensitive and ridiculous . It's exactly true in the context of this discussion. There's even a thread title.


"I care but I won't let it interrupt me watching football." is that really caring? If it is, it's only a little bit?
 
Mmm-Qatarian said:
This post absolutely fantastically captures how I feel about the situation as well. Honestly, I'm not even 100% sure if I'll continue to follow United if Qatar win out. As you said, the romance behind it will die and that'll make it really hard to properly invest myself.
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It’s difficult. We all want to see Utd as some virtuous club fighting against the evil oil clubs.

Yet, my whole life my friends have described Utd as a club for glory hunters & tourists. We sold our soul for the commercial dollar and used that to ‘buy’ success. We can all point to the class of ‘92 or whatnot but they all point to British transfer records and signing the best players from other British clubs. We all see our own club through rose-tinted glasses.

Over £1bn lost to interest payments and dividends. A decade of mis-management has left Utd needing mega-investment just to be back where we were financially.

Yet, I’ve never had a problem with outside money coming into football. Chelsea and City upsetting the established order isn’t a bad thing in a vacuum. Utd’s dominance while not as absolute as City’s wasn’t good for competition.

The main issue for me has always been City’s cheating. We implemented FFP to ensure clubs could be built sustainably and to prevent situations like Leeds happening again. If City have inflated sponsorships or hidden wages to gain a competitive advantage then that isn’t right. It’s part of what has forced Utd and Barca etc to the brink by overspending.
 
MDFC Manager said:
This! And boot out the debt and the financial crippling its caused in the process. If the new owner builds us a new stadium and facilities, it's only just making up for what glazers have deprived us of thanks to their loans and mismanagement. I'll just see it as things evening out. Then the club can be self sufficient in the transfer market as @Woziak detailed earlier.

Agree with the rest of your post too.
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That part is where I'm still confused. I don't think that Ineos has made the point that they would pay the debt in place of United, one possibility is that while the debt is put on Ineos, Ineos takes dividends to finance it, those dividends may be inferior to what United would pay if they financed the debt themselves but nothing says that United will pay nothing. The same applies to United paying dividends to 92 Something.
 
Rhyme Animal said:
You’re very wrong.

The ‘Qatari billions’ will be useless if Utd don’t / can’t balance the books.

Liverpool don’t need ‘Qatari billions’, neither did Arsenal to seriously challenge City in the league, did they? They didn’t have inept fecking leeches attached to their clubs.

Utd just need the Glazers properly GONE. And whoever is offering to do that is my preference.

My post in reply to Mockney’s hovis advert sentiment was simply saying what it said - ‘romance’ is subjective. There’s nothing controversial or persuasive about it.

You can’t say ‘the romance in football is dead’, because you’re not an omnipresent authority to decide so.
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Yeah, I find it so romantic when our players are celebrating their brand deals a couple of days after Citeh equalled our treble and a week after they failed to show up for even 20 minutes at the start of each half, so we could stop them ourselves.

Local boys, mercenaries or anything in between, footballers don't give a shit and get paid millions to just switch off after a game, no matter how significant, and yet somehow the romance will be lost if and when we get owners who actually want us to succeed and will boot these average employees out of the club to get there.
 
Professional sports has reached the point where we either have to look the other way or accept that it is what it is and we just sit back and enjoy the spectacle as it comes.

One small but well-publicized case in point: The NFL and Colin Kaepernick. All the man did was kneel during the national anthem and he was banished from the league for it.
 
sparx99 said:
It’s difficult. We all want to see Utd as some virtuous club fighting against the evil oil clubs.

Yet, my whole life my friends have described Utd as a club for glory hunters & tourists. We sold our soul for the commercial dollar and used that to ‘buy’ success. We can all point to the class of ‘92 or whatnot but they all point to British transfer records and signing the best players from other British clubs. We all see our own club through rose-tinted glasses.

Over £1bn lost to interest payments and dividends. A decade of mis-management has left Utd needing mega-investment just to be back where we were financially.

Yet, I’ve never had a problem with outside money coming into football. Chelsea and City upsetting the established order isn’t a bad thing in a vacuum. Utd’s dominance while not as absolute as City’s wasn’t good for competition.

The main issue for me has always been City’s cheating. We implemented FFP to ensure clubs could be built sustainably and to prevent situations like Leeds happening again. If City have inflated sponsorships or hidden wages to gain a competitive advantage then that isn’t right. It’s part of what has forced Utd and Barca etc to the brink by overspending.
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Great post, especially the bolded.
 
lex talionis said:
Professional sports has reached the point where we either have to look the other way or accept that it is what it is and we just sit back and enjoy the spectacle as it comes.

One small but well-publicized case in point: The NFL and Colin Kaepernick. All the man did was kneel during the national anthem and he was banished from the league for it.
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What do you think we would be saying if this happened in the Suadi pro league?
 
Cassidy said:
No its just true
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No, we're discussing United, and if you are behind Qatar and it won't impact your relationship with the club then in this context you don't care about their human rights issues. That's just logic.


Is it then unfair to say they then don't care at all, well maybe a little bit. But also maybe not.
 
moses said:
No, we're discussing United, and of you are behind Qatar and it won't impact your relationship with the club then in this context you don't care about their human rights issues. That's just logic.


Is it then unfair to say they then don't care at all, well maybe a little bit. But also maybe not.
Click to expand...

Its not logic is reductive
Also the last line is just tragic
 
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