Club Sale | It’s done!

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JagUTD said:
At the most basic level, ignoring everything else, Ratcliffe is the guy we all dream of being. Having enough money to be able to buy the club we love.

The same can be said of Jassim of course, but how many of us come from such privileged means? A lot of us can relate to those pebble dashed council houses, 4 to a block, often a communal area in the centre you'd either play football on or race around on you bikes.

Plus Oldhams a shit hole, so you have to respect anyone who even gets employed from there let along makes 20 billion :lol:
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Not from the UK, so can't relate too much. Didn't have a priviliged upbringing, though.
 
Finally it looks like it will pretty much be ending next week, one way or another, cannot come soon enough i’m getting sick of all this arguing and debate it’s so exhausting at this point
 
Rhyme Animal said:
Their owner / leader personally used their wealth and position to fervently support Brexit - the most harmful political happening to this country since WW2, and which has ravaged the nation and seen the lives of countless people worsened / shortened, and in many cases due to NHS, has seen people lose their lives?

And then the owner / leader has then moved all their worth to a tax free location in order to contribute even less to the country?

Guardian - Brexiteer Ratcliffe moves to tax free domicile

Can that, specifically, be levelled at Qatar x 10? Not can you level something different at Qatar, which we know you can, but can that be levelled at them x 10 as you claimed?

Because I care a lot about Britain and I see, every day how Brexit has hurt this nation, both financially and also culturally in the mess we’re left to wade through in its wake.

Ratcliffe is a fecking cretin, let’s be straight here, he’s a bad guy. You may claim he’s the lesser evil, and that’s fine, it’s subjective. But he’s a fecking cretin.

I don’t see how Qatar have worsened Britain though, on a daily basis.
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Excellent post. Unless the guy you're talking about is someone that voted Leave/Tory they will still be blinded by their arrogance. Even a blind person could see the crapshoot Brexit would be and we warned them to see through the rubbish but were labelled project fear. Without this going further into the CE section of the Caf, Brexit Jim advocating for this shit before moving his own stuff abroad is what I hold against him the most. The little


Raoul said:
This much is obvious. He appears little more than a name and a face masking a state bid.

The fact that Khelafi of PSG has been involved behind the scenes and has even met with Raine only reinforces this.
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This is all under the assumption that you believe his networth to be what its stated on Forbes RichList/whatever metric you're sourcing this from. The truth of the matter is, the Arabs dont disclose their wealth like the leaders of public companies do in the West ala Musk, Bill Gates and whatever nonce is top these days. You just have to look at MBS you telling me Musk is richer than him just because he is number one on that rich list. Thats my point regarding his net worth not being accurate to what its stated, ditto with his father.

As for the bid involving the state, I agree with you that yes there must be some state backing. Why wouldn't there be, we are Manchester United. The Emir and the Emirs father both supported Manchester United. We are giants to them they love us over there.
Rightnr said:
See that was my impression and I thought @Woziak was confused when he mentioned Ratcliffe bidding for 33% of the club.

However, I've also seen a couple of mentions about 50% of the class B shares. Now this sounded stupid to me because it would mean the controlling stake Ratcliffe would get could be overturned by Glazers + others (even Glazers only, as they already own some class A shares).

But if Ratcliffe gets 60% of the class B shares, that's about 58% of the rights (assuming the class B shares are not converted).

This would allow for a significant valuation because he's only buying about 42% of the club, not even 50%. This leaves each Glazer with about 5% stake on average.

This all tracks and makes me sick at the same time.
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The maths adds up. The narrative of keeping the Glazers atleast sone of them has been parroted for months now so seeing the figures like this makes it a real possibility. You cant fight maths. As much as I'd like the Qataris this seems to be the most attractive offer for both parties to move forward
 
Rhyme Animal said:
It is relevant if you want to start moralising and putting others down who don’t share your viewpoints - as you and @NotThatSoph and others are pointedly now trying to do.

Firstly, your assertion that ‘more than half of your country voted for Brexit’ is completely incorrect.

Secondly, xenophobes loved Brexit, xenophobes don’t like wealthy foreigners buying British things, xenophobes very often don’t like Muslims.

Ratcliffe is a Brexiteer, Ratcliffe is British, Jassim however is foreign, Jassim however is Muslim, so IF we’re gonna start correlating a link between supporting Jassim and MG, then let’s also see if there’s a link between Tories / Brexiteers / xenophobes supporting Ratcliffe, yeah?

Oh also, xenophobes don’t like rich, young black guys and MG is a rich, young black guy, so there’s that variable also.

My point, in case you’re missing it, is that I’d prefer NEITHER OF THESE POLLS or ways of thinking, and let’s not start levelling at others our own superiority. That’s my point.

But IF you must do that - lets at least be fair and scrutinise both choices equally, or not at all.

Also, Ratcliffe didn’t just ‘vote Brexit’, he’s the wealthiest man in Britain and thus has extensive political influence ffs.

He personally chose to support Brexit, to help make it happen, he then personally chose to mug off British tax payers and loophole himself out of the same Brexit everyone else had to suffer - a Brexit he’d helped make happen.

He then personally chose to lie / go back on promises he’d made…

The billionaire Brexiteer who betrayed his promises

Yeah, let’s have this guy AND THE GLAZERS, together…

Ratcliffe is a liar

And a tax cheat
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You have problems really. Basically, an extremist.
 
Rojofiam said:
Not from the UK, so can't relate too much. Didn't have a priviliged upbringing, though.
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Fair enough mate. I doubt many of us here are from substantial means, regardless of our home lands. Well, @Berbaclass aside who I happen to know is Bahraini royalty.
 
JagUTD said:
He did improve his full Glazer buyout bid twice. It was only at the 3rd bid the alternative bid was also put forward but he's made at least 2 bids for 69% though I'm sure it was 3, but the news of the offer to allow the two Glazers to stay was significant enough that the 3rd bid was largely forgotten.
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Sure was forgot it too. Seems he just couldn't up his full takeover big by enough.
 
MarkoDolohov said:
This is all under the assumption that you believe his networth to be what its stated on Forbes RichList/whatever metric you're sourcing this from. The truth of the matter is, the Arabs dont disclose their wealth like the leaders of public companies do in the West ala Musk, Bill Gates and whatever nonce is top these days. You just have to look at MBS you telling me Musk is richer than him just because he is number one on that rich list. Thats my point regarding his net worth not being accurate to what its stated, ditto with his father.

As for the bid involving the state, I agree with you that yes there must be some state backing. Why wouldn't there be, we are Manchester United. The Emir and the Emirs father both supported Manchester United. We are giants to them they love us over there.
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He clearly doesn't have the money by himself. He is one of something like a dozen kids and even if his Dad is far wealthier than his Forbes listing, it strains credulity to believe his 40 year old son has made remotely enough money by himself to buy United. Therefore, yes it is a state bid and therefore it is a terrible idea for any nation state to buy a prominent football club, much less Man United, for the reasons that have been repeatedly discussed in earlier posts.
 
Rhyme Animal said:
It is relevant if you want to start moralising and putting others down who don’t share your viewpoints - as you and @NotThatSoph and others are pointedly now trying to do.

Firstly, your assertion that ‘more than half of your country voted for Brexit’ is completely incorrect.

Secondly, xenophobes loved Brexit, xenophobes don’t like wealthy foreigners buying British things, xenophobes very often don’t like Muslims.

Ratcliffe is a Brexiteer, Ratcliffe is British, Jassim however is foreign, Jassim however is Muslim, so IF we’re gonna start correlating a link between supporting Jassim and MG, then let’s also see if there’s a link between Tories / Brexiteers / xenophobes supporting Ratcliffe, yeah?

Oh also, xenophobes don’t like rich, young black guys and MG is a rich, young black guy, so there’s that variable also.

My point, in case you’re missing it, is that I’d prefer NEITHER OF THESE POLLS or ways of thinking, and let’s not start levelling at others our own superiority. That’s my point.

But IF you must do that - lets at least be fair and scrutinise both choices equally, or not at all.

Also, Ratcliffe didn’t just ‘vote Brexit’, he’s the wealthiest man in Britain and thus has extensive political influence ffs.

He personally chose to support Brexit, to help make it happen, he then personally chose to mug off British tax payers and loophole himself out of the same Brexit everyone else had to suffer - a Brexit he’d helped make happen.

He then personally chose to lie / go back on promises he’d made…

The billionaire Brexiteer who betrayed his promises

Yeah, let’s have this guy AND THE GLAZERS, together…

Ratcliffe is a liar

And a tax cheat
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Christ this is a worrying post.
 
Come on announce it already if we're gonna steal MC's thunder of
 
pocco said:
Sounds like SJR might have made a another offer for 60% that the media haven't picked up on until now?
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Still thinks it's confusion rather than an actual bid as it doesn't make much sense from either Ratcliffes perspective or the two Glazers clingons
 
Looks like the Glazers got what they wanted. We've been saying "this is tendious, its dragging out", but ultimately the cnuts have probably played an absolute blinder.
 
FujiVice said:
Looks like the Glazers got what they wanted. We've been saying "this is tendious, its dragging out", but ultimately the cnuts have probably played an absolute blinder.
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Agreed. They appear to be on the cusp of squeezing every bit of money out of this transaction as they originally wanted.
 
Ratcliffes deal with the devil will probably win out, but encouraging to see Qatar are atleast back in the running

Last thing we need is years more of the Glazers and their UK based stooges.
 
The last pages of this thread are starting to convince me that this whole selling process is nothing else than a demonstration of the Duncan principle.

Imagine reclaiming the moral high ground on a discussion about three billionaires (well, two plus six) throwing money at each other.
 
Raoul said:
Agreed. They appear to be on the cusp of squeezing every bit of money out of this transaction as they originally wanted.
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A bit of learning on our part, they are clueless owners when it comes to football, but buying & selling properties, they are pretty good. Leeches from our standpoint but extremely effective from theirs.
 
Guapa said:
Come on announce it already if we're gonna steal MC's thunder of
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What thunder? Hardly anyone is taking about their win. It's already been overtaken by Boris Johnson aftermath, Novak winning tennis again, Sturgeon being arrested. Aside from a couple of editorials here and there from sports journos it doesn't seem like many even give a shit about, and why would they? It's City ffs. The original news when the Glazers put us up for auction garnered major headline for a couple of days.
 
Tiber said:
Ratcliffes deal with the devil will probably win out, but encouraging to see Qatar are atleast back in the running

Last thing we need is years more of the Glazers and their UK based stooges.
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I see it differently.SJ puts his latest offer in during the week and now preferred bidder emerges.
I think we'll be under Qatari ownership.
 
Raoul said:
He clearly doesn't have the money by himself. He is one of something like a dozen kids and even if his Dad is far wealthier than his Forbes listing, it strains credulity to believe his 40 year old son has made remotely enough money by himself to buy United. Therefore, yes it is a state bid and therefore it is a terrible idea for any nation state to buy a prominent football club, much less Man United, for the reasons that have been repeatedly discussed in earlier posts.
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I'm not sure how you leap from straining credulity to it is an absolute...
 
Fully expecting Sheikh Jassim to be the new owner, the Glazers are not turning down anything close to £6B, thankfully this saga is coming to an end and for the first time in a long time we can look forward with optimism, and hopefully, a brilliant transfer window.
 
Figgins said:
I'm not sure how you leap from straining credulity to it is an absolute...
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The simple absence of evidence would be sufficient in reaching such a conclusion. No one would be asking the question if it was Zuckerberg or Bezos. The fact that some guy who no one had ever heard of mysteriously emerges out of fog claiming he can buy United out right and invest another billion in infrastructure will need to put their money where their mouth is.
 
Blackbeard said:
I hope he’s ok. Not logged back on since all his past posts came out. Hopefully just keeping his head down for a couple days until it all blows over!
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He shouldn't be concerned anyway. Hes far from the first to change his views as @Wumminator has shown with numerous posters.

Better to just own it.
 
pocco said:
His reported worth isn't a lot in the context of buying and running United, along with the considerable investment needed.

Basically my point is that I don't think Jassim's bid is just Jassim. Hence why people suspect some level of involvement from Qatar.
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I thought it was jassim's daddy that was providing him with the funds? i could be wrong...
 
pocco said:
Christ this is a worrying post.
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Sandikan said:
It's got to be a decent contender for worst post out of the 65,000 so far.
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Nah, it’s a good post actually. It’s well laid out and puts forward a fair argument why going down the pointless and obviously toxic rabbit hole of Qatar plus MG is pointless and unfair unless you’re going to spend an equal amount of time and energy scrutinising the other stance.

You either don’t grasp it and have simply waded in because that’s how you roll (Sandikan) or don’t like the idea that both angles should be scrutinised if one is (pocco) which is fine.

Feel free to spell out, clearly, what you find so worrying about it please @pocco - be specific to the actual post and don’t veer away from it.

Likewise, @Sandikan, feel free to spell out clearly why you think, in a thread full of utter garbage (including your own post quoted above) why this post is so awful.

Look forward to your replies.
 
lord knows the back and forth will continue long into whoever wins

X would have done better than X for sure! etc etc
 
Raoul said:
The simple absence of evidence would be sufficient in reaching such a conclusion. No one would be asking the question if it was Zuckerberg or Bezos. The fact that some guy who no one had ever heard of mysteriously emerges out of fog claiming he can buy United out right and invest another billion in infrastructure will need to put their money where their mouth is.
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no-one heard of him? I'm pretty sure you mean you, you cannot speak for others. Without evidence, you have available to you, he is guilty, does that make him guilty of lying?
 
pocco said:
His reported worth isn't a lot in the context of buying and running United, along with the considerable investment needed.

Basically my point is that I don't think Jassim's bid is just Jassim. Hence why people suspect some level of involvement from Qatar.
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You don’t have a point, or even a clue, it seems.

Jassim’s bids have never claimed to be ‘just him’ - they’re a group of businessmen, hence 92 Foundation, it obviously isn’t 1 person.

And his individual, personal wealth isn’t known in Western media, so speculating on it is idiotic.

If they’re bidding 6 billion, rather than say, using another company to leverage it with yet more debt… it’s fairly safe to say the 92 Foundation can afford it.
 
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I found it interesting that The Times mentioned SJ believed it would come down to whether Glazers want to maintain some level of a stake in the club.

They also said the final bid was similar to Ratcliff, right? If so - I would have taken this as an obvious SJR win? Unless someone can explain to me why the SJ bid is still attractive.
 
Going off Lawton/Keegan reports I really can't see how Jassim doesn't win this given they state the valuations are now close.
Qatar offer - straight cash exit
Ineos offer - could potentially profit in the event the clubs valuation significantly increases in the next 3 years (not a given). On the other hand the downside is there will continue to be fan disgruntlement due to glazers still being associated with the club. Additionally although we don't know how much weight any lawsuit from Hedge Funds & other A Share holders will hold, it's a headache they won't want. Additionally that will tarnish them in the markets where any future public offerings will be affected.
 
bosnian_red said:
Fair enough! I don't disagree with a lot of this (just my general anti state ownership stance for a multitude of reasons), but anyway. We can get back on track, whatever that means for this thread..
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Totally understand and respect your stance mate.

Let’s just hope it gets sorted and announced soon and Utd is in a better way than recent years.
 
Figgins said:
no-one heard of him? I'm pretty sure you mean you, you cannot speak for others. Without evidence, you have available to you, he is guilty, does that make him guilty of lying?
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No one suggested this. There is however perfect justification for doubt in the absence of any evidence to the contrary.
 
VP89 said:
I found it interesting that The Times mentioned SJ believed it would come down to whether Glazers want to maintain some level of a stake in the club.

They also said the final bid was similar to Ratcliff, right? If so - I would have taken this as an obvious SJR win? Unless someone can explain to me why the SJ bid is still attractive.
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I don’t really get that either. If it’s still a lower valuation and Ratcliffe is also offering an additional premium in 3 years for the remaining 9% then I don’t really get why they’d not go with Ratcliffe - unless there will be further negotiations when they name a preferred bidder and Qatar have indicated they’ll go higher.
 
VP89 said:
I found it interesting that The Times mentioned SJ believed it would come down to whether Glazers want to maintain some level of a stake in the club.

They also said the final bid was similar to Ratcliff, right? If so - I would have taken this as an obvious SJR win? Unless someone can explain to me why the SJ bid is still attractive.
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If it’s a similar number then why wait for 2/3 years for Jim? The entire advantage was the Glazers would earn more per share and 2 staying on allowed Jim to make the offer since it have Jim a few years to pony up the rest to pay off the straddlers.
If it’s a similar offer then Jim isn’t offering more for two to stay on down the line otherwise the overall price would be significantly higher?
So there’s now no need to wait
 
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