Club Sale | It’s done!

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Elite football is corrupted by money. The very organised bodies that run the game are proven corrupted organisations.
The world cup went to fecking Qatar.
No other reason than money.

What do supporters follow these days?
The team, the manager, the crest , the business?

United the club, the institution of a club, the Busby babes and the SAF era. It's all gone. It's so far gone it's not even visible in the distance.
The idea that all activity carried out is for the benefit of the team is laughable too these days.
It's now a crest, a brand, a business front that earns a bucket load of money playing on peoples nostalgia.

The way I see it is that Ineos are in this for a return and the others for other reasons.

To compete with the other oil owned teams then this team needs deep money pits otherwise this team will never win the title again.

So for me Qatar owners will be best for the football team and that's really all fans want right ? For the team to win ?

For me I just don't care anymore. Im numb to it. The whole football world is just one big corrupted mess of money and shady deals to make men in suits wealthy
 
hp88 said:
Both of the potential owners haven't really helped with this either, they know the longer this drags on the more it eats into the preparation time for next season, they should have set a solid deadline and walked off after that date but the pair of them are playing some stupid game with the Glazers whilst the clock is ticking, dumb move from the pair of them really.
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It's a shit-show all-around. I can't wait for it to get resolved.
 
MarkoDolohov said:
Sorry mate, I know you are a great contributor on here, but this stance is nothing shy of the typical Internet Virtue Signalling Brigade person. If you really cared you wouldn't be on here for one, typing on a device mined using child labour in DR Congo. History doesn't remember the ones with morals. It remember the victors. All this talk about City treble being stained is pure and utter delusion. And it till continue this way until Qatar take over rather than Brexit Jim.
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feck me, Genghis Khan is here...
 
Wibble said:
I want neither of them but I want Qatar far less. The idea that not wanting state ownership, especially by a state as morally dubious as Qatar, is being a virtue signalling keyboard warrior is utterly bizarre.
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It's not just bizarre, it's idiotic. People will convince themselves of anything for glory or a quick dopamine hit.
 
Tarrou said:
except thats exactly whats happened

where are all these investors who see the value then?

we only have a nation state and Sir Jimmy, and neither want to pay the asking price
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Buying a multibillion-pound company isn't like a bidding war for an affordable and sort after centre- half. There usually aren't lots of potential buyers. When Discovery-Warner bought AT&T they didn't have to fight off rival bidders. In vast majority of cases one company identifies the benefits of acquiring another company and the set about doing so.

A few years ago it was the Glazers. They weren't in a Bidding war with anyone. Few years before that it was Murdoch and Knighton before him

At any point during those proposed or completed overs observing that there wasn't a bidding war therefore there can't really be any value in the long term value of the club would have been equally as accurate and ridiculous as saying it now WITH an actual biding war ongoing
 
stw2022 said:
In the space of 17 years the Glazers look set to make a $4-5bn profit. I'm sorry but that cannot be the starting point for anyone to argue they don't possibly see the appeal of owning Manchester United outside of it simply being a vanity project
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It is not going up another 5bn in the next however many years and certainly not for somebody who most likely won't even be alive then... Plus as said above, the Glazers walked into an already functioning global monster, now it's a shadow of it's former self lagging behind their city rivals and potentially other clubs in the pipeline.

There is hundreds of better ways to make money than to spunk 5bn in the hopes it may turn around.
 
hp88 said:
Both of the potential owners haven't really helped with this either, they know the longer this drags on the more it eats into the preparation time for next season, they should have set a solid deadline and walked off after that date but the pair of them are playing some stupid game with the Glazers whilst the clock is ticking, dumb move from the pair of them really.
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Thats not how this works. It's a football club not a player transfer.
 
Marcelinho87 said:
It is not going up another 5bn in the next however many years and certainly not for somebody who most likely won't even be alive then... Plus as said above, the Glazers walked into an already functioning global monster, now it's a shadow of it's former self lagging behind their city rivals and potentially other clubs in the pipeline.

There is hundreds of better ways to make money than to spunk 5bn in the hopes it may turn around.
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Once football gets its act together with regards to Streaming then the value is going to go up again dramatically. The Glazers, SJ and SJR know this.
 
Stobzilla said:
Once football gets its act together with regards to Streaming then the value is going to go up again dramatically. The Glazers, SJ and SJR know this.
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For the Glazers it's easy though, they spent feck all so any upturn is profit... Making profit on a 5 or 6bn pound purchase is infinitely more difficult.
 
Even the sale is a complete joke

This club is absolutely fecking shite at everything it does
 
Marcelinho87 said:
It is not going up another 5bn in the next however many years and certainly not for somebody who most likely won't even be alive then... Plus as said above, the Glazers walked into an already functioning global monster, now it's a shadow of it's former self lagging behind their city rivals and potentially other clubs in the pipeline.

There is hundreds of better ways to make money than to spunk 5bn in the hopes it may turn around.
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The corporate world is full of chairmen and CEO's much older than Ratcliffe who make large scale acquisitions to benefit the corporate bottom line long after they're dead. They don't hit 70 and then set about making only business decisions likely to produce the highest dividends within the remainder of their statistically likely life expectancy.

Ineos a few years ago investment several billions in a Saudi oil company. Was that a vanity project or because they identified it as an investment they're likely to reap the rewards from years after Jim has shuffled off the planet?

I fear there's a fundamental lack of understanding of how these corporations run and why they aquire these assets for many many billions. It seems as if so many believe unless there's a short term, immediate return on investment or something that can financially benefit the current chairman within their lifetime then there's no value/point to any of it
 
hp88 said:
Both of the potential owners haven't really helped with this either, they know the longer this drags on the more it eats into the preparation time for next season, they should have set a solid deadline and walked off after that date but the pair of them are playing some stupid game with the Glazers whilst the clock is ticking, dumb move from the pair of them really.
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It's called negotiation, bhai. We Indians should know about bartering more than most.
 
Marcelinho87 said:
For the Glazers it's easy though, they spent feck all so any upturn is profit... Making profit on a 5 or 6bn pound purchase is infinitely more difficult.
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I think at the moment with the way football is with regards to its current TV deals etc. you are correct, but a huge change is coming once the PL starts to cut out the middlemen and has a Direct Streaming service in place. It is the only place left for the PL to go and they it will go there in the next 10 years or so, a subscription service available worldwide with localised ad space, they will make money hand over fist and it would probably be worth 10 times more than the current TV deals they have.
 
VP89 said:
Thats not how this works. It's a football club not a player transfer.
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It reflects the Glazers greed and lack of cohesion amongst them.

Why should A and J be rewarded more than the other 4?

I think there is an equally big fight taking place in Florida.

If just A and J hang around they get 18%, at a higher value in the future, literally hundreds of millions each. However divide that by 6 and it's not as attractive for A and J.

Where will they strike a balance?

I think a full sale makes more sense for them as a whole, more now for all 6 than, a relatively, smaller share of a slightly larger pie down down the road.

In the meantime we have a poor transfer window, with the usual snails pace approach, and last minute desperation.
 
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I can't get my head around those arguing in support of the Ineos deal that's based around allowing the Glazers to keep significant shares in the club to benefit from the expected significant increase in the club's value in the coming years are also simultaneously arguing that they can't see a significant increase in the club's value in the coming years therefore the only advantage to buying the club is as a billionaire's play thing

We have the current owners and one other bidder who are structuring the deal around projected increased value yet the same bidder apparently can't possibly think there's money to be made out of future increase value because...I dunno.... he's 70? Is that it?
 
Castia said:
Even the sale is a complete joke

This club is absolutely fecking shite at everything it does
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That's the spirit. To be fair this has become a farce. I have been involved in an investment that went up for sale 3 years ago though and still no sign of completion so let's hope it's not going to take that long.
 
UnofficialDevil said:
How long did it take Newcastle PSG City Chelsea to complete the procedure? What's it been for us now, like 7 months? ffs.
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There are many owners that want different things, it’s not negotiation between two parties and on top of that multiple bidders with similar offers in financial value. It’s pretty normal to drag along.
 
Enigma_87 said:
INEOS have been charged with hundreds of environment related offences out of which they have been found and documented guilty in 72 of them in the last 20 years. And that’s only environment hazard, let alone hundreds of safety law violations, employees rights violations and railroad safety violations. And those are the ones that are recognised and reported to be filled in court and that’s are much more that have been swept under the carpet or resolved outside court.

currently they are waiting on for ruling on their 3bln plastics project, decision to be taken later this year.

so yea it’s a bit rich to take the moral high ground against the Qataris when the other option is petrochemical company that flushes toxic chemicals year after year in the air and in the sea, affecting the lives of billions all over the world.
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As I said I don't want either, but it is in no way a bit rich to object to being owned by a state, especially one as terrible as Qatar, even when the alternative is someone who owns a huge petro-chemical company.
 
Wibble said:
As I said I don't want either, but it is in no way a bit rich to object to being owned by a state, especially one as terrible as Qatar, even when the alternative is someone who owns a huge petro-chemical company.
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Why is it Jim vs the state of Qatar though? Can we not compare Jim to Jassim? Clearly here there is one moral victor? Jassim, other than working for Credit Suisse seems pretty clean?
 
UnofficialDevil said:
How long did it take Newcastle PSG City Chelsea to complete the procedure? What's it been for us now, like 7 months? ffs.
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How many times are people going to use Chelsea as an example?
That sale was forced through to the invasion of Ukraine.
UK Government were going to freeze Romans pennies.
NUFC one took a whole year and maybe more.
Our lack of sale to due to nothing other than the Glazers greed.

The other you mentioned City and PSG little baby clubs compared to a mammoth giant club.
 
It's weird to see so much arguing on here over something we've absolutely no control over. If the winner ends up being sheikh Jassim and you think it's actually just Qatar in a Scooby Doo style mask then you have options. One of which is to stop following the club, but you don't have a choice over who owns it.

If you think that Jimmy Rat is a Tory who doesn't give a monkeys about the club and will plunge us into debt, then you can oppose the idea but ultimately you can't do anything about it.

Have a preference, debate the preference if you like, but arguing and condemning other forum users over their preference is pretty silly. They, just like you, will have zero influence over the outcome, so let's just allow each other to make our points without arguments or personal attacks.

Personally, I would prefer SJ to win because I think that is the best outcome for the club itself and for the future, however my immediate worry is about the transfer window which is full of a lot of bluster about our targets but I think it might just be talk, possibly generated to make fans think something is happening, whereas in reality I worry that we won't do much this summer with the ongoing ownership saga.
 
Is anyone surprised anymore? I predicted at xmas that there was a small chance ETH wouldn't start the season as he'd walk in the summer in the face of the clubs complete lack of ability to do anything properly. I think that chance gets bigger by the day.
 
Superden said:
Is anyone surprised anymore? I predicted at xmas that there was a small chance ETH wouldn't start the season as he'd walk in the summer in the face of the clubs complete lack of ability to do anything properly. I think that chance gets bigger by the day.
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He's not walking FFS :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

The CAF has an obsession with walking away.

Walk away from transfers!
Jassim walk away from negotiation, that'll show em!
EtH walk away from the job, that will show the Glazers!

It's like we're a sucker for punishment. Like we bathe in it. Crave it. Demand it! Give me all the negativity around my club so I can moan at my club for being shite and not as successful as the others!
 
stw2022 said:
I can't get my head around those arguing in support of the Ineos deal that's based around allowing the Glazers to keep significant shares in the club to benefit from the expected significant increase in the club's value in the coming years are also simultaneously arguing that they can't see a significant increase in the club's value in the coming years therefore the only advantage to buying the club is as a billionaire's play thing

We have the current owners and one other bidder who are structuring the deal around projected increased value yet the same bidder apparently can't possibly think there's money to be made out of future increase value because...I dunno.... he's 70? Is that it?
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Ultimately, most of the "support" for Ratcliffe has very little to do with the man himself.

People have very little legitimate concerns about the Qatari state essentially taking over Manchester United and Ratcliffe is essentially the lesser of three evils in this current climate.
 
Superden said:
Is anyone surprised anymore? I predicted at xmas that there was a small chance ETH wouldn't start the season as he'd walk in the summer in the face of the clubs complete lack of ability to do anything properly. I think that chance gets bigger by the day.
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I can just see it now.

Ten Hag walks, we bring in Southgate who signs Pickford, Rice and Mount, and Maguire stays captain. :drool:
 
Over one billion pounds taken out by the Glazers and shamelessly they still want more, you and I will never witness greed on such a scale anywhere ever, they have absolutely ravaged the club and it only starts to fully recover the day they leave, hopefully sooner rather than later, every one of them.
 
Wibble said:
As I said I don't want either, but it is in no way a bit rich to object to being owned by a state, especially one as terrible as Qatar, even when the alternative is someone who owns a huge petro-chemical company.
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It’s up for debate. Huge petrochemical companies affect the lives of more people globally and also the lives of other creatures inhabiting the area of operations.

Arguably they are worse in global aspect compared to what the Qataris are doing on their own people and land. They rarely transcend the same virtues “worldwide” as the follow the local rules, compared to INEOS that plan to turn Europe into a large hydrogen bomb with their new project.

If we take into consideration the moral side of the equation neither wins so it shouldn’t be a stick to beat the other with.
 
Why can’t the government step in and speed this up? Let’s start a rumour that Joel and Avram have Putin round to play Xbox
 
Cantona in disguise said:
That's the spirit. To be fair this has become a farce. I have been involved in an investment that went up for sale 3 years ago though and still no sign of completion so let's hope it's not going to take that long.
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Im sick of the whole thing. City win a treble and we have this farce going on? wake up this morning to see we're linked to Pickford ffs...just crap from top to bottom
 
2 man midfield said:
Why can’t the government step in and speed this up? Let’s start a rumour that Joel and Avram have Putin round to play Xbox
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The government has no legal power to do that.
plus the uk government has bigger things to be concentrating on (though they are useless at doing so)
 
2 man midfield said:
They did it with Chelsea, for reasons I’m still not sure about
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That was becuase of connection between its owner and Putin, the depth of that connection I dunno and the legality of that I’m still not sure about.

but it’s a massive difference between trying to put sanctions against an individual with links to a regime the government is politically opposed to just getting involved in a negotiation between companies over the sale of a business
 
Just to clarify, every single thing you can use against Ineos, and there's plenty, you can use ten fold against Qatar before you even start with the rest of it.

So if you have a problem with Ineos' environment record for example, you must surely also have a much bigger issue with Qatars far more damaging environmental record. Even if we reduce it to purely football/sport issues, we are talking about the country that air conditioned the world cup.

And to be clear, it's not the environmental issues that are the major sticking point with Qatar. I'm just making it clear that they are a bigger issue with Qatar than with Ineos.
 
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