Club Sale | It’s done!

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Woziak said:
I know your pro Qatar but I’m really neutral on this just want Glazers gone, Hunch and it’s just a hunch they want Qatar to pay at least £5.4/5.6bn without the proposed future investment, they don’t care about that, they do care about future opportunities in the Middle East with their NFL team however and other Opportunities with their IPL cricket team so this is why although they liked SJR offer and proposal they would prefer cash more, if Qatar want this done they need to go in with an actual final bid which is something like £5.5bn valuation on the club plus £0.8bn future investment plus the £0.535bn debt and package the bid up as £6.8bn or $8.5bn world record bid.

They also need to tell the Glazers that this offer would expire within 48 hours, that’s how you deal with parasites like these!
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I'm in favor of Qatar yes but I'm also not anti-Ratcliffe.

I think You're about right. Another ~£500 million probably gets this done I think and I believe with the events of the other day (Qatar deciding to go up £500 million) they would be the most likely to do that out of the two parties. I don't think at the valuation of the current offers JR will get selected and it's now become a game of who blinks first.
 
This is strictly anecdotal of course but at my sons training session last night (U11s) there were 6 united shirts on show in his group of 14 kids, I didn't count the other age groups but there were plenty spread around

I didn't see a single city shirt anywhere thoughout the whole club

I live circa 150 miles from manc
 
Strootman's Finger said:
Man City prior to Abu Dhabi was a small club with a local fanbase that bounced around the football divisions. They were bought and essentially became a phoenix club. They used the name of the club and their shirts, but essentially built and entire club on the framework of Man City. There is nothing about this current Man City that has anything to do with their history, or the club prior to Abu Dhabi. They went from Stephen Ireland and Shaun Goater and no success to Kevin De Bruyne and Erling Haaland and racking up trophies.

Manchester United has one of the most storied histories in the world of football. They are arguably in the top 2 biggest football clubs in the world. Their fanbase is massive, their history is massive their success is massive. Qatar can't buy Man Utd and turn them into something they aren't, because they already are a huge club, with big players, they pay big transfer fees, they pay big wages they have a history of success. We can't be bought by Qatar and then criticized when we buy Osimhen for a record breaking fee, because we have a history of signing players for record fees, Denis Law, Bryan Robson, Andy Cole, Rio, Veron, Pogba.

We will never be the next Man City, because they're still trying to be the next Man Utd. We just want owners to return us to the level we historically belong.
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Exactly. That’s why it always baffles me when people bring up lazy examples like Malaga and PSG. Just have a little faith in our club man.
 
Infra-red said:
Qatar are not bidding for 100% right now - they just want to buy 69% (the Glazers' class B shares, the only shares that are currently for sale - they then intend to buy the remaining 31% on the NYSE in a seperate transaction). However, their offer for the 69% values the whole enterprise at £4.8bn. Meanwhile, the Ineos bid for 50.01% of the shares values the whole enterprise at just over £5bn. The "value" figures you are seeing attributed to the bids in reports relate to enterprise value, not the amount of money that will actually be transferred in the transaction.

To be clear, Qatar do not intend to hand over £4.8bn for 69% and nor do Ineos intend to hand over £5bn for 50.01%. The Glazers will only receive a proportion of that money relative to the number of shares they actually sell.

As things stand, Ineos are offering more money to the Glazers than Qatar.
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Yeah and that's exactly why Jassim has to go up to £6bn IF he wants to buy this club enough
 
Red_Aaron said:
This is strictly anecdotal of course but at my sons training session last night (U11s) there were 6 united shirts on show in his group of 14 kids, I didn't count the other age groups but there were plenty spread around

I didn't see a single city shirt anywhere thoughout the whole club

I live circa 150 miles from manc
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My son is going to be a United supporter. Or adopted, it’s entirely his choice, I’m not going to be pushy about it.
 
Infra-red said:
Yes, this is also a factor. Ineos are offering more per share than Qatar (although not by much, following Qatar's increased offer this week). The sweetener that Qatar can reportedly offer is the prospect of preferential terms for the Glazers regarding other Qatari-based business opportunities (the benefits of being a state-backed bid). If these reports are accurate, you would assume that this will definitely have been raised by Qatar in their direct talks with the Glazers in advance of their improved offer earlier this week.

Ineos do also have a sweetener of their own, though - flexibility. They are prepared to do something that the Qataris are not - offer a continuing interest for the family in Manchester United. How attractive a proposition that actually is to the Glazers, nobody outside of the family really knows. All we have is some reports that Joel and Avram are more attached to the club than their siblings (and Avram's presence at two high profile United matches at Wembley in the past few months might lend some credence to that view).
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So if they are supposed to be offering these Qatar based business opportunities then why aren't we hearing mote about that
 
TsuWave said:
The above is all facts.

Looking at social media you now see “City fans” from all over the globe. Walking around Piccadilly, Manchester these days you find tourists in City gear - that used to be all United.

Locally, my nephew started saying he’s a City fan (he’s a child), I looked at my brother like “what’s going on?” and all he could say was “all his friends and kids in his year at school are City fans”. City has the biggest stars - manager included, play the best football, dominate, score a bunch of goals and do so consistently. Kids aren’t in the playground thinking “oh but they cook their books”, they’re thinking “I want to be like Haaland”.

Even looking at social metrics - Gen Z is flocking to City (even if these fluctuate due to specific players):

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They even have Manchester United in their twitter bio

qNijJOJ.jpeg
 
Pexbo said:
My son is going to be a United supporter. Or adopted, it’s entirely his choice, I’m not going to be pushy about it.
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Oh no doubt about that, my sons were born into this shit and there's no getting out. I'll excommunicate the little feckers
 
Woziak said:
This is exactly what will happen if they don’t buy united, they clearly want a part of the PL pie
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Interesting thing about that is that if Joel and Avram stay in and they do buy Spurs then it could potentially effect their remaining investment 3 years down the line if Qatar pump Spurs full of money and they are then up there ahead of United. We could be struggling to compete to be in the CL and would effect the share price valuation.
 
lex talionis said:
Cards on the table, I do not have a Harvard MBA although I do have my have my own business and at least so far haven’t filed for bankruptcy protection.

Question: why is the Glazer debt being dismissed as irrelevant by pundits in the valuation of the offers from Sir Jim and Shiek Jassim?

Jassim’s offer clears the roughly £1B debt, and Sir Jim’s does not…at least so it seems. If that debt isn’t cleared, it’s still there and if it’s still there Jimmy, Joel and Avram are presumably still obligated to service that debt. Or is there is something obviously missing in my two cent analysis of the nature of this debt that makes it reasonable for the British media to ignore this aspect of the relative valuations of these two bids?
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Their offers/valuations of the club should already be taking the debt into account - meaning that the debt will remain on United’s books post acquisition until the new owner decides what to do with it - which in your case, Jassim has already mentioned that. But yeah, it is sort of irrelevant in terms of the valuations as it should have been taken into account when valuating the business.
 
TsuWave said:
The above is all facts.

Looking at social media you now see “City fans” from all over the globe. Walking around Piccadilly, Manchester these days you find tourists in City gear - that used to be all United.

Locally, my nephew started saying he’s a City fan (he’s a child), I looked at my brother like “what’s going on?” and all he could say was “all his friends and kids in his year at school are City fans”. City has the biggest stars - manager included, play the best football, dominate, score a bunch of goals and do so consistently. Kids aren’t in the playground thinking “oh but they cook their books”, they’re thinking “I want to be like Haaland”.

Even looking at social metrics - Gen Z is flocking to City (even if these fluctuate due to specific players):

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Spot on. Foreign fans, or "inferior fans", most often become fans by exposure to the club at a young age, and I imagine this goes double in the age of TikTok and Instagram. And unfortunately City are getting far more exposure than us. We are doing fine right now, but if the status quo carries for long enough, and eventually we will just be "my grandad's club". I see it now with clubs with AC Milan, for example. When I was a kid, they were the shit in my circle. Nowadays, I can see the zoomers are not that familiar with them. But City? Everybody knows them now. And they will absolutely not give a shit how they got here. This will also impact the financials of the club, as sponsors pay depending on how many eyes you put on brands.

What makes this so much worse is that Manchester United was the very first club to monetize it's global image this way. Pioneering. If the club was managed well after that and if it wasn't for the abhorrent parasites, this could have been probably the biggest sports institution on the planet right now.
 
Berbaclass said:
£5.5 billion will be enough I think.
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Totally agree £5.5bn is what they clearly would accept, they actually want $7billion which is between £5.6 and 5.7billion. Nothing will happen this week and probably not next week, it will take someone pulling out or an Increased offer to move things along
 
Woziak said:
Totally agree £5.5bn is what they clearly would accept, they actually want $7billion which is between £5.6 and 5.7billion. Nothing will happen this week and probably not next week, it will take someone pulling out or an Increased offer to move things along
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My worst fears are Jassim has reached his highest bid that he is willing to go to,therefore Ratcliffe has got it in the bag bar something very dramatic again.
 
Berbaclass said:
Fair enough. Do you think the Ratcliffe offer is including debt?
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We don't really know. Ratcliffe's camp has done everything they can to remain as vague as possible about the current debt and how the future of the club will be financed. This makes me massively wary of their ownership.
 
Berbaclass said:
Interesting thing about that is that if Joel and Avram stay in and they do buy Spurs then it could potentially effect their remaining investment 3 years down the line if Qatar pump Spurs full of money and they are then up there ahead of United. We could be struggling to compete to be in the CL and would effect the share price valuation.
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No only Ineos would be effected as they would have agreed the Goblins a higher fee but why would Joel and Avram want to stick around when they would have no real power any more, SJR not looking at the future he’s looking at a vanity purchase as a 70 year old billionaire, it’s his trophy Girlfriend that was a super model 20 years ago, he thinks that a plastic surgeon will restore her to previous beauty but SJ wants to move in his fleet of young 25-30 supermodels all in brand new Ferrari’s and Lamborghini’s and park them outside the club to show he means business.
 
Berbaclass said:
That's one thing I think everyone can agree on really, that fact that he;s not really been particularly forthcoming about important issues.
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Yeah if he had dealt with the main issues (clearing the debt/stadium investment) then I would have definitely been more willing to support his bid but that never happened
 
Woziak said:
No only Ineos would be effected as they would have agreed the Goblins a higher fee but why would Joel and Avram want to stick around when they would have no real power any more, SJR not looking at the future he’s looking at a vanity purchase as a 70 year old billionaire, it’s his trophy Girlfriend that was a super model 20 years ago, he thinks that a plastic surgeon will restore her to previous beauty but SJ wants to move in his fleet of young 25-30 supermodels all in brand new Ferrari’s and Lamborghini’s and park them outside the club to show he means business.
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Surely if they are being given a premium on the share price at the time then it will affect the two Glazers also if we struggle to or miss out on the CL due to increased competition.
 
Telsim said:
We don't really know. Ratcliffe's camp has done everything they can to remain as vague as possible about the current debt and how the future of the club will be financed. This makes me massively wary of their ownership.
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Yeah that's why everyone in fanbase should be wary because his vagueness is not something you want from a prospective owner.
 
croadyman said:
Yeah if he had dealt with the main issues (clearing the debt/stadium investment) then I would have definitely been more willing to support his bid but that never happened
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100%

It comes across poorly that he hasn't tried to allay fans fears.
 
I think with the current market volatility the Glazers would be mad to take the Ratcliffe offer over Jassim's.

Even at the current valuation. Cash is king.

If the Qataris increase at all from here then the club will be theirs.

A bird in hand is worth two in the bush
 
Telsim said:
Spot on. Foreign fans, or "inferior fans", most often become fans by exposure to the club at a young age, and I imagine this goes double in the age of TikTok and Instagram. And unfortunately City are getting far more exposure than us. We are doing fine right now, but if the status quo carries for long enough, and eventually we will just be "my grandad's club". I see it now with clubs with AC Milan, for example. When I was a kid, they were the shit in my circle. Nowadays, I can see the zoomers are not that familiar with them. But City? Everybody knows them now. And they will absolutely not give a shit how they got here. This will also impact the financials of the club, as sponsors pay depending on how many eyes you put on brands.

What makes this so much worse is that Manchester United was the very first club to monetize it's global image this way. Pioneering. If the club was managed well after that and if it wasn't for the abhorrent parasites, this could have been probably the biggest sports institution on the planet right now.
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People give a shit. They want their football communities, they dont want to see their local leagues and teams destroyed by oil states. Going further than that I think it will hurt the EPL as well. You already see it with the hatred from Italy about Bournemouth being able to outspend Roma. Where are these fans supposed to come from?
The problem with City is that none of the other top clubs would stand still for it. You’re not having every top club fanbase waving them though worshipping at the feet of City. Every top fanbase hates them thus most football fans hate them and it’s not as if City can make up all those fans together to fight back and not have it make a dent.
Liverpool are treated as legends and heroes for winning one league title, for daring to be the good guys against City.
City will never, ever have a fanbase and Everybody who has argued otherwise still haven’t put further an argument as to why they would. Do they need to win 10 league titles in a row to make a ripple? How’s Juventus fanbase worldwide doing?
 
There is a reason Jim Glazer has kept a tight lip on the debt situation etc. He knows how dangerous it is to promise something that he cant guarantee. Afterall, he had to get in bed with the Glazers to make his offer attractive as the Brexit Rat knew if he went toe to toe with the Qataris, he probably wouldn't be able to walk again.
 
croadyman said:
My worst fears are Jassim has reached his highest bid that he is willing to go to,therefore Ratcliffe has got it in the bag bar something very dramatic again.
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I don’t think that’s the case at all, SJ entourage are simply annoyed at how long it’s taking and annoyed with the delays which they are blaming the Raine Group for when really it’s the Glazers, they might now have direct dialog between Qatar and The Glazers and it might go something like this

The Glazers to SJ ; “The last bid is very interesting however it’s lower than SJR, we want to do a deal with you but can you present us with a final non public bid, no one will know what the bid is and we can make it look like £6bn with the debt but obviously we will only receive £5.5bn, but that’s the magical number, agree this and the clubs is yours”

SJ to the Glazers ; “ We will not go any higher than £5.3bn plus debt and the Emir has said you need to decide now or we’ll buy Liverpool and offer the same amount of money, tell SJR that he will never do business with Qatar either after this and there will be no future NFL opportunities if you say no “

I genuinely think something along those lines will or will not take place in the next 7–10 days.
 
Woziak said:
I don’t think that’s the case at all, SJ entourage are simply annoyed at how long it’s taking and annoyed with the delays which they are blaming the Raine Group for when really it’s the Glazers, they might now have direct dialog between Qatar and The Glazers and it might go something like this

The Glazers to SJ ; “The last bid is very interesting however it’s lower than SJR, we want to do a deal with you but can you present us with a final non public bid, no one will know what the bid is and we can make it look like £6bn with the debt but obviously we will only receive £5.5bn, but that’s the magical number, agree this and the clubs is yours”

SJ to the Glazers ; “ We will not go any higher than £5.3bn plus debt and the Emir has said you need to decide now or we’ll buy Liverpool and offer the same amount of money, tell SJR that he will never do business with Qatar either after this and there will be no future NFL opportunities if you say no “

I genuinely think something along those lines will or will not take place in the next 7–10 days.
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So like I said then they won't go any higher,also pissing off the person dealing with the sale won't do Jassim any good whatsoever
 
croadyman said:
So like I said then they won't go any higher,also pissing off the person dealing with the sale won't do Jassim any good whatsoever
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If the Glazers want to deal with Jassim, Raine can do feck all about it. They want their commission.
 
cyberman said:
People give a shit. They want their football communities, they dont want to see their local leagues and teams destroyed by oil states. Going further than that I think it will hurt the EPL as well. You already see it with the hatred from Italy about Bournemouth being able to outspend Roma. Where are these fans supposed to come from?
The problem with City is that none of the other top clubs would stand still for it. You’re not having every top club fanbase waving them though worshipping at the feet of City. Every top fanbase hates them thus most football fans hate them and it’s not as if City can make up all those fans together to fight back and not have it make a dent.
Liverpool are treated as legends and heroes for winning one league title, for daring to be the good guys against City.
City will never, ever have a fanbase and Everybody who has argued otherwise still haven’t put further an argument as to why they would. Do they need to win 10 league titles in a row to make a ripple? How’s Juventus fanbase worldwide doing?
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Very shortsighted and naive. Nobody here is talking about this year or in five years. It takes a long while to build a legacy and a fanbase. Which is what City are doing right now - legitimizing their club. As generations change, I can guarantee you fewer and fewer people will give a shit how they got here, and they will gain more and more fans over the world. You can already see that in their social media following. This will also let them legitimize their money as they gain more and more sponsorship attention. So, in, say, 20 years they will be a legitimate club.

And I'm very curious to know how you imagine the situation with the other clubs going. Do you suppose the clubs unite and say "Please, FA, do something about City?". And the FA suddenly says "Oh yes, we will certainly do something about the most successful English club for the past decade bringing the most money and the most famous players to England, absolutely, let's go!". When do you suppose that will happen? What's the threshold for the other clubs and the FA to act? City treble? Or maybe 20 PL titles? When is it going to happen?
 
Telsim said:
Very shortsighted and naive. Nobody here is talking about this year or in five years. It takes a long while to build a legacy and a fanbase. Which is what City are doing right now - legitimizing their club. As generations change, I can guarantee you fewer and fewer people will give a shit how they got here, and they will gain more and more fans over the world. You can already see that in their social media following. This will also let them legitimize their money as they gain more and more sponsorship attention. So, in, say, 20 years they will be a legitimate club.

And I'm very curious to know how you imagine the situation with the other clubs going. Do you suppose the clubs unite and say "Please, FA, do something about City?". And the FA suddenly says "Oh yes, we will certainly do something about the most successful English club for the past decade bringing the most money and the most famous players to England, absolutely, let's go!". When do you suppose that will happen? What's the threshold for the other clubs and the FA to act? City treble? Or maybe 20 PL titles?
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Yeah, by flagrantly and knowingly breaking the rules.
 
Telsim said:
Very shortsighted and naive. Nobody here is talking about this year or in five years. It takes a long while to build a legacy and a fanbase. Which is what City are doing right now - legitimizing their club. As generations change, I can guarantee you fewer and fewer people will give a shit how they got here, and they will gain more and more fans over the world. You can already see that in their social media following. This will also let them legitimize their money as they gain more and more sponsorship attention. So, in, say, 20 years they will be a legitimate club.

And I'm very curious to know how you imagine the situation with the other clubs going. Do you suppose the clubs unite and say "Please, FA, do something about City?". And the FA suddenly says "Oh yes, we will certainly do something about the most successful English club for the past decade bringing the most money and the most famous players to England, absolutely, let's go!". When do you suppose that will happen? What's the threshold for the other clubs and the FA to act? City treble? Or maybe 20 PL titles?
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If you’re talking 200 years down the line then it doesn’t really apply?
Nobody is forgetting oil states. It’s plastered everywhere and it’s not as if nobody will know What an oil state is 100 years from now.
It’s stupidly alarmist.
literally every top fanbase hates your club so much that they are willing to form a breakaway league the only thing that stopped it was English fans.
Can you explain which fan of the top leagues that have, say, 50+1 or are fan owned will ever give a shit about Citys hollow victories?
 
Telsim said:
Very shortsighted and naive. Nobody here is talking about this year or in five years. It takes a long while to build a legacy and a fanbase. Which is what City are doing right now - legitimizing their club. As generations change, I can guarantee you fewer and fewer people will give a shit how they got here, and they will gain more and more fans over the world.
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So you're talking 30, 50 years? How do you know if the sheikhs won't get bored and move on. We don't even know if they won't drop a few levels once Pep leaves in the next few years. I don't see City building a dynasty because they tend to take shortcuts. Their fanbase will be purely tied to their succes, which makes it quite hollow.
 
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