If they're confi
If they really were confident the brand will grow significantly then selling at all makes zero sense to begin with
Club Sale | It’s done!
- Thread starter JB08
- Start date
- Status
If they're confi
If they really were confident the brand will grow significantly then selling at all makes zero sense to begin with
They can't afford the status quo, hence the need for financing
Absolutely, would mean this race is far from run though if true.
Avram and Joel out of excuses though so probably good thing!
This whole sale process has been a shambles. Wouldn't be surprised if Del Boy and Rodney made a bid at this point.
We shouldn't have expected any less from the leeches who own this club.
What a sad situation for a club with such a special history.
We shouldn't have expected any less from the leeches who own this club.
What a sad situation for a club with such a special history.
Where abouts?
How has it been a shambles? This is a pretty standard M&A process. How did you expect it to go instead?
Limavady. Blow in but here all the same
Ahh “armpit of the north”!
That's true, but I still find it a bit odd that the majority of them want out (one has to assume that they/their advisors consider it a good time to sell, i.e. that they are not confident that the brand will keep growing significantly), whereas those two want to stay.
I mean, not being interested in the sport is one thing - but this has to be mainly about money at the end of the day: they/their advisors must consider it more profitable to take the money at this point and re-invest it.
Outside of the United ownership, is there a considerable difference between Joel/Avram and the other four in terms of finances/what they own/how much money they sit on?
I wouldn’t worry. The guy has used 46 words and said nothing. Just whinging to feel included I think.
Yes, you'd think so.
No clear message from the owners (Is this a full sale or partial?), a third window added for bidding, endless leaks from all parties involved, zero dialogue with fans or fan groups etc.
I understand there is a business process involved and a deal this big won't take a week to sort out but its been messy from the start.
All the leeches have done is run the clubs name through the mud to possibly make a bit more profit.
The Chelsea deal was a different situation but Abromavich left the club after clearing all debts and with fans still chanting his name.
Look at that grinHe looks like he's shown up for the craic
We’ve reached a point of slow growth and potential stagnation and/or decline.
The footballing bubble is peaking somewhat for the clubs in our position. Not that its not possible to increase further but at this point the club needs investment in infrastructure and the team in order to become even more lucrative.
They don’t want to spend their own money, or invest in long term growth that harms their short term gains.
For them it’s better to get out now with the money. Fan base revolt, need of investment and to be quite frank their lack of interest in the club.
They could make more money elsewhere with the capital they’ll gain.
Someone must have told him they were giving out pints of wineLook at that grin
But what is there to communicate about when the sale process is still in progress? Like how can they make a clear message whether it's a full sale or a partial if they don't know themselves? (or at least didn't know until the 3rd bids came in).
If that is Big Sam, has Jassim promised him the manager's job? 
Big salamIf that is Big Sam, has Jassim promised him the manager's job?
Yes, either that or they've got a crystal ball. I agree with @Brophs, it's probably probably super league or PPV. That's if it's true they've been offered a minority stake.
Surely if they know that's potentially coming why sell in any way? They are greedy parasites, can't see them wanting to take only a little of the potential profit instead of it all for themselves.
Because they need a huge cash injection to keep United competitive till then?
Just the north? That’s being kind!
I understand that but surely it becomes worth the risk to borrow more, potentially against some of their other assets.
Anyone who thinks INEOS will remove the debt is dreaming. They will not give the donkeys Avram and Joel and the other 30% in the stock market a free ride.
Yeah that's a bit bizarre.
@Chesterlestreet made a point about the other siblings selling up. So, either the two brothers are just hopeful or it's all brinkmanship.
Your attitude is just bizarre sometimesOr, you know, just trying to get in to see the game with his mate Alex.
Andy, do you have a preferred outcome to all this takeover stuff? If so, what is it?
Yeah that was my point too. All the oil money owners looked after their clubs. Abramovich had no need to put that stipulation in, he did it because he loved Chelsea FC.
Saying the Qataris will not invest with United despite what has been shown with PSG, Chelsea, Newcastle, City etc is not rational.
I think the financing needs in addition to the other four wanting out has driven this process. Though I don't know how valuable the remaining Glazers' shares would be without their Class B status and if they aren't in control how then do they actually fund their short to medium term needs? Maybe without the want away four the remainers will be more interested in the actual health and growth of the club!
If Sir Jim is having to borrow £3bn as reported will he have the budget to fund the club's immediate needs? We will need new players to come in next summer and the bill for what we need will be hefty then the stadium in the next couple of years and Carrington. The club doesn't make enough to service such a debt, Ineos does but will it also fund these needs?
Then say SJR and Ineos commit £2bn over five years how will it be treated, will it increase their holding whilst diluting the other shareholders percentages or will other shareholders also have the right/responsibility to chip in. I can't see AG and JG affording £400m let alone be willing to invest such a figure in the club.
You have no idea what they will do. None of us do. They aren't going to want to fail.
Having a little bit of debt isn't a bad thing either as when you don't have debt you have to pay taxes.
SJR doing a great job at Nice in the farmers league, taking them from 5th all the way to the ..... 9th. Filling us with confidence.
Will they be giving them a free ride or just substantially increasing their shareholding in the club? Say they buy 51% of the club at £2.75b giving it an EV of 5.4, if they put in a further 2b as investment won't that take the value of the club to 7.4 and grow their stake to 64% further entrenching their hold?
If their offer is accepted INEOS will have the greatest exposure to United and it will be in their interests to ensure that it grows. The club won't grow without investment so it doesn't make sense for them to just takeover and load more debt for infrastructure whilst denting the club's competitiveness.
You are talking nonsense here mate. First of all, it is not "little bit of debt" it is north of 750m and is entirely bad debt (unlike the Spurs good debt), we have lost 1.5b in amortization and interest payments on this "little debt". Secondly, we have an idea about his plans about the debt, it has been mentioned many times by the journos that he will not "put a new debt" but has no plans to remove our huge existing one. Also, it is logical to think he will not put money from his own pockets while Joel and Avram do nothing and just reaping the benefits taking a free ride.
Although Ratcliffe and INEOS have played this poorly from a PR perspective, they seem to have taken the right approach in a business sense.
I get that having the Glazers in minority ownership is far from palatable but they wouldn’t have any real power, surely? They’ll just get richer… which they would anyway if the Qataris took over.
Ratcliffe’s people have said that the debt would go on INEOS, not the club itself. While being debt free would be ideal, it’s fairly normal business practice to manage debt.
As regards to the concern about how United will be ran, there seems to be a certainty from some fans that the Qataris would be great custodians and INEOS would be terrible. Nice haven’t been tremendous, granted, but they’ve hardly been awful. I’d say PSG, despite the colossal investment, have been managed in an underwhelming, soulless manner - great academy players sold, unbalanced squad, uninspiring squad players, marquee names.
Both Nice and PSG appear to be turning the corner strategically with Campos wielding his scouting influence in Paris and a higher emphasis on the academy. Nice hired a very well regarded Sporting Director from Lens.
Ratcliffe will definitely invest in the squad and infrastructure. He’s reportedly worth 23 billion (nearly 5 times richer than Boehly), yet people are talking about him as some sort of pauper.
He’s been pragmatic IMHO - not necessarily telling the fans all we want to hear but doing enough to get the deal done and to get the Glazers out of majority ownership and therefore control. I believe we’ll be much better under his stewardship, should the deal go through.
Also, does talk of a new stadium and huge money transfers really dispel all moral concerns about the Qatari’s potential ownership?
Trying to be optimistic - this could really be a good thing for United if the rumoured outcome transpires.
I get that having the Glazers in minority ownership is far from palatable but they wouldn’t have any real power, surely? They’ll just get richer… which they would anyway if the Qataris took over.
Ratcliffe’s people have said that the debt would go on INEOS, not the club itself. While being debt free would be ideal, it’s fairly normal business practice to manage debt.
As regards to the concern about how United will be ran, there seems to be a certainty from some fans that the Qataris would be great custodians and INEOS would be terrible. Nice haven’t been tremendous, granted, but they’ve hardly been awful. I’d say PSG, despite the colossal investment, have been managed in an underwhelming, soulless manner - great academy players sold, unbalanced squad, uninspiring squad players, marquee names.
Both Nice and PSG appear to be turning the corner strategically with Campos wielding his scouting influence in Paris and a higher emphasis on the academy. Nice hired a very well regarded Sporting Director from Lens.
Ratcliffe will definitely invest in the squad and infrastructure. He’s reportedly worth 23 billion (nearly 5 times richer than Boehly), yet people are talking about him as some sort of pauper.
He’s been pragmatic IMHO - not necessarily telling the fans all we want to hear but doing enough to get the deal done and to get the Glazers out of majority ownership and therefore control. I believe we’ll be much better under his stewardship, should the deal go through.
Also, does talk of a new stadium and huge money transfers really dispel all moral concerns about the Qatari’s potential ownership?
Trying to be optimistic - this could really be a good thing for United if the rumoured outcome transpires.
He's stated that no new debt will be heaped on the club, so I guess we just have to believe it won't.
He may not read the fan base perfectly, but surely he realizes that loaning against United would result in riots, death treats and whatnot, which he can't be interested in: he's doing this as some sort of "legacy" project by all accounts. And on that same note, it doesn't make much sense to buy the club and then not invest on the football side, i.e. staff, including players, and infrastructure, etc.
There are a lot of things he could invest in that would make more sense financially than a football club. To be clear, I have no sympathy for him, zero. But the idea that he'll come in and run the club into the ground in order to make a relatively measly profit (for a guy who already controls a business worth 60+ billion) doesn't make much sense to me. It's more likely, in my opinion, that he'll be willing to spend a bit in order to achieve success on the pitch and be known as the man behind United's resurrection (again: the "legacy" angle).
- Status