The Athletic must be trolling, if some people on here are to be taken seriously.
Club Sale | It’s done!
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The Athletic must be trolling, if some people on here are to be taken seriously.
Don't tell me they're not selling after all this! What a travesty!
Only @HarryP is telling you that. I wouldn’t worry too much about what he says.
Glazers could stay just like it could rain today or it could not.
Name one stop they’ve broken before anybody else. All they’re saying is all of this is still possible
Do the Athletic say anything specific?
"There is a growing belief" is vague language
"There is a growing belief" is vague language
Nobody knows. At this stage it's possible the Glazers don't even know.
All of Harry's dreams might be coming true! The Glazers will own Utd forever!
The growth of the belief is coming from HarryP and his tribe. It continues to grow.
They've been well behind others throughout every stage of the takeover talk haven't they, like you said.
Posts that feel sexual
HarryP is probably a Glazer plant isn't he? I refuse to believe that actual Glazer supporters exist (excluding opposition fans)
Harry Plant.
This has not been a universally good thing for Manchester, the city council has made financially catastrophic decisions and the privatisation of our city is quite openly criticised, in particular, the finances involved with the Manchester City Discount Land Grab. They're right to point out the Labour malaise which Manchester has fallen into. Their reaction to Tory cuts has been to generate money like they were Tories, asset-stripping the city to the highest (although not always) bidder. I'm not in favour of state ownership from anywhere, but I think this is a separate issue from MCC's lust for selling off its silverware. United are currently foreign-owned, so this is nothing new, but its a shame we don't have politicians capable of asking difficult questions. When City was bought, MCC was complicit in the whole thing, Sir Richard Leese is an adopted City fan (from Coventry) and Howard Bernstein had long been a fan who retired soon after the deal to work for City's new owners - nothing to see here. It's a shame that a baby-kisser like Burnham isn't saying anything, but then again, he never does.
United's share price seems to have an inversely proportional relationship to belief that the Glazers will remain. United's share price is down 8.7% in the past 5 days, so you might say that belief that the Glazers will remain has increased by a similar percentage.
Yeah but why? When they can run all the way to the bank.
I read a lot that United's debt level is fine. Obviously, to me, it doesn't sound fine at all and it sounds like the Glazer's only way out is more debt, lots more debt. For someone who understands this world more than me, just how much more debt can United take on before it becomes not fine anymore?
Good tweet by Kieran. Demonstrates that stadium improvements pay for themselves. Bear in mind that would apply to INEOS too (On their books of course)
Exactly. Why would the Glazers want all of the hassle of running United which needs millions in new investment and infrastructure? Their passion is obviously NFL in the Florida sun.
They will definitely sell, I can’t see why they wouldn’t.
Naive fallacy if I've ever seen one.
Two clueless folk talking nonsense to each other.
The Internet in a nutshell!
A footballer and an economist, talking about football economics. And then there’s you.
You can't borrow at 4% right now in the UK though, can you? 10-year Gilts are trading at 3.84%. No idea what the credit rating is on presumably a secured loan for construction, but the spread would be at least 100 bps if not 200+ bps.
Stop this endless bashing of our captain.
He claims he does have sources!
Seriously though, I don't believe he has sources or connections, and maybe he lives with his mum, but he is asking questions over these last weeks that I haven't seen answered yet. Like how minority investment would work realistically. After taking minority - how would they pay off their cnut siblings, fund the necessary capital investment, transfer market (to keep Utd competitive) and also keep the value of the club growing significantly? They can't put a loan onto United to pay all of that, on top of the existing debt surely. And they won't pay it themselves.
An economist who is naive enough to believe that any Investment firm wouldn't first get Glazers sibling selling them their shares to amend the Share structures voting rights, absolutely deserves to be laughed at .
Only problem with Kieran summary is the loan is activated day one the money is transferred into Man united Account so our Debt becomes £1.4bn (2 loans, 1 for £600m and the other for £800m, one interest payment £25m the other £34m or £59m per year to service our now increased debt) which means we need to make profit of £60m to stay in business
The Fault here is the stadium would take 3 years to build and we are paying interest charges the day the loan goes into United account. Assuming this starts summer 23, shares sold, loan agreed.
Two Glazers remaining now have 75% voting shares which is insane, No VC will agree that without having voting shares and Why would the other 4 Glazer take less than what’s being offered by SJR snd SJ. The stadium capacity reduces from winter 2023 to 62,000 - results in reduced revenue, then reduces again simmer 24 to 50,000 while stands are modernised and renovated this process continues until Summer of 2026 when a fully renovated 88,000 stadium now offers increased revenue however the previous 3 years due to a much lower attendance and reduced gross revenue causes the club even more debt to service, commercial Suicide from the remaining Glazers, they will be bankrupt in 12 months and the VC that bought the 4 out will have failsafe clauses in the contract that allow them to takeover to mitigate their risk.
Option 2 they build a completely separate stadium for £1.5bn, not £800m which was only for refurbishment and player investment, the interest payments naturally increase, we stay at Old Trafford but we can barely pay for the existing debt of £25m of interest payments let alone another £65m of additional interest payments for the £1.5bn loan at 4%.
If this happens United Fans will riot like never before, I could genuinely see 10,000 lying down on the pitch and preventing any game from being played , they might actually prefer being relegated to the championship or even league 1 to get rid of the remaining vultures that just don’t get it, they are not wanted, they’ve never been wanted and if they try and stay it will be futile for them.
Please someone ask KIeran how on Earth this is possible and why a VC would do this unless the ultimate agenda was to watch the club fall into bankruptcy so they could pick off the company and control it later, converting B voting shares to A shares means they are paying double, treble what they will be worth when the shares crash as the Glazers stay.
It just makes zero sense whatsoever !
We made £110m from matchday income last year, where is he getting the extra £80-100m from?
If the Glazers stay, what do you think the actual fans's response at Manchester would be? They did protest before, didn't seem to change anything.
Violence I'd imagine. Probably the only option left at that point.
if this was South America they could have been assaulted/shot by now
Need Gold Trafford & the Manc Red Devil to return to the forum and sell the debt is good theory once again. Like they did after the hostile takeover.
A footballer and an economist who have no idea what is being proposed, accepted or rejected in a 6b deal.. and there’s me. Who doesn’t know either.
At least I don’t pretend to.
remember the days of both of these pretending it was a ploy to find out the price of the club and for the two brothers to buy out the other 4 on their own?
Good times.
If the Glazers stay, what do you think the actual fans's response at Manchester would be? They did protest before, didn't seem to change anything.
Lets just put it as CNN would say 'Fiery but peaceful'
If they stay as the two goblins could, they will simply make false promises, never honour any of them and assume that ETH will create another Sir Alex Dynasty which will generate huge turnover going forward. Let’s all play Devils advocate for 1 minute;
1. Carlyle Buy £2.6bn of the other 4 Glazer Shares and reduce 66% of Voting Shares now to 25% with Avram and Joel having 75%. If the club was sold for £10,000bn in the future they would now own 25% of 69% so 1/4 of £7bn or £1.75bn, again this is just made up dribble!
2. The Glazers realise they are now in charge so they decide to spend £250m this summer to try and appease Fans, but sell £100m of players too.
3. They promise (which will be broken) to do things differently and involve fans plus will review carrington and stadium in summer to have major overhauls, the key here is words they use in official man United statements.
4. After Review they agree to increase one stand as suggested previously taken stadium up to 88,000 and renovate rest of the stadium for £300m which will start July 24 and hope to be completed by July 25.
5. They agree a £600m loan not £800m and it costs £50m per year in interest to service. So the debt is now £1.2bn minus amortised transfer debt and credit card of Another £400m which will be paid with some of this money.
6. They agree to invest for next two windows and then money will be tight as they undergo £100m training ground improvement and £300m
Stadium update.
7. The club Turnover assuming we are top 3 PL team ever season for next 2/3 years and win maybe 3 or 4 cups but forget PL and CL under the Goblins. So in 2024 the club comes third, wins a Fa Cup, gets to 1/4 of CL and Gross Turnover is a record high of £650m however the club only makes £25m profit. The New debt only remains the same £1.2bn with new loan and the club has to pay £75m in interest payments so the debt increases as we did not make enough profit to service the debt and interest, the debt is now £1.25bn. The following year we do really well come second in PL, win a carabo cup and reach the SF of CL, the turnover increases to £675m in 2025, record profits of £50m however the increased interest Payments on the loan are now £85m and our debt goes to £1.285bn but the banks due to the recession want the £85m over the agreed amount paid , only one option for the Glazers now is to sell United best young players without buying replacements and hope the youth policy works.
Bye Bye Marcus Rashford at his park of 27, bye bye A Garnaucho at 21. The club loses its impetus and the following season in 2026, finishes 6th and must play Europa League. Turnover drops to £565m
This is when the VC will take control and try and sell the club hoping to recoup at least 75% of their initial £2.6bn which incidentally is way overpriced considering 69% of £5bn is £2.27bn, this means the minority Hedge funds are offering the club £5.7bn as a full sale which is currently more than SJR and SJ. This might be leaked deliberately to get one of them to come in at £5.8-6bn
2-3 years back, reddevil subreddit (on reddit) had this daily conversation post which allowed so called ITK to come and post. Obviously all of them were fake and it became so bad that some of the users started doxxing these ITK’s. Then this was banned from that subreddit and few users banded together and formed the “Muppetiers” on reddit, taking the same ITK users. They had to close their subreddit 2-3 times because of user backlash because most of their so called inside information turned out to be false.
So yeah these people are clueless and just digest news that we all have access to, and then post something cryptic. If it turns out true, they will claim they knew about it, if it doesn’t, then they wont bother bringing it up. They have recently became smarter in how they post so that there is no backlash in case they are wrong.
What’s worrying however is the new rumoured £2.6bn to buy them out that’s a £5.7bn offer In full so we SJR or SJ to bid more simple!
The Glazer only understand Greed
I don't deny it. I don't know, but even if he lied about absolutely everything, is a Liverpool fan and lives with his mum.. He's still asked questions around the feasibility of Partial Investment that I haven't seen answered.
I've asked similar questions on here for months and nobody has an intelligent answer.
For all the criticism the Glazers get, and much of it is valid, they have never made screw ups of the size that Boehly has at Chelsea. £600m spent on players inside of 8 months owning the club (destroying a decent platform built up during the Tuchel era) instead of patiently building after careful assessments with guidance from experts. What he's done is astonishing and makes the Glazers look like geniuses.
It's also a stark lesson that sometimes it's better to stick with the devil you know than the devil you don't.
It's also a stark lesson that sometimes it's better to stick with the devil you know than the devil you don't.
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