Club ownership | Senior management team talk

[acnumber9]

To be honest, he might be an arsehole, but I think SJR knows a thing or two about making businesses more efficient financially, so I’ll probably trust his judgement in this particular case.

Even he knows that cancelling a Christmas party won’t help the team on the pitch. The growth of his portfolio means feck all to me.

Has efficiency driving made his other football clubs more successful?

 

[romufc]

Notice I didnt lump in the savings on wage bills. That is one of the major improvements i will give Ineos. contracts seem to be handled much better now, and thos savings are significant.
However charity and christmas party arent where you should start, especially at a club that has been in turmoil and needs a better mood all around and atmosphere.
The Ashworth farce cost of far more than those small savings on charity and christmas parties.

This is the thing, you can't just pick and chose where you want to make savings. If the players aren't performing, then cuts will be made.

If the other staff are not performing, cuts will be made. What you dont know, is what the staff cuts were. They didn't start at the charity and christmas party though, they started with alot more before they got there.

Firstly, they started with Richard Arnold, John Murtough and a few more, the charity and xmas party was 6 months after their first cuts.

You just chose to ignore those cuts.

You talk about better mood and atmosphere, so in previous years where the Glazers spent so much money on parties, charity, excessive overpaid staff, what did the mood do? Did we do well on the pitch? No...

Regarding Ashworth, Ratcliffe has already come out and said they have made a few mistakes, you would prefer us to keep Ashworth on his high salary so it didn't look like a farce? got it.

If the club used your approach, oh we paid Ashworth release clause and was a mistake, so here guys here is 3m to spend how you want it...

Then you will say, why make redundancies, when its worth Antony's wage.. okay lets just keep the staff.

Unfortunately, that is not how businesses work.

 

[Posh Red]

Even he knows that cancelling a Christmas party won’t help the team on the pitch. The growth of his portfolio means feck all to me.

Has efficiency driving made his other football clubs more successful?

I wouldn’t know as I haven’t observed the specifics of any of those situations.

Again, you can ridicule individual decisions, but that’s how wholesale changes are made. And I’m not sure what you mean by ‘growth of his portfolio’. Has he not already put over a billion pounds into this venture?

 

[romufc]

Even he knows that cancelling a Christmas party won’t help the team on the pitch. The growth of his portfolio means feck all to me.

Has efficiency driving made his other football clubs more successful?

You can ask that but I can flip it and ask... having a huge christmas party and keeping excessive staff, for the last 10 years, were we more successful?

 

[Escobar]

To be honest, he might be an arsehole, but I think SJR knows a thing or two about making businesses more efficient financially, so I’ll probably trust his judgement in this particular case.

Everyone knows that restructuring, downsizing and even firing people is needed sometimes, especially if a company is bloated, inefficient and when numbers look bad. And the club is doing the same with the players btw - selling the best paid players (Case and Rashford) as they dont justify their salaries anymore, and it looks like new contracts seem to be on a "normal" level. People can hate all these moves as much as they want, but if we want to be back at our best on all fronts, this is what we have to do - even raising ticket prices if necessary.

 

[Posh Red]

Everyone knows that restructuring, downsizing and even firing people is needed sometimes, especially if a company is bloated, inefficient and when numbers look bad. And the club is doing the same with the players btw - selling the best paid players (Case and Rashford) as they dont justify their salaries anymore, and it looks like new contracts seem to be on a "normal" level. People can hate all these moves as much as they want, but if we want to be back at our best on all fronts, this is what we have to do - even raising ticket prices if necessary.

Correct. Unfortunately there’s a ruthless nature required in these types of situations. It’s not pretty, but I prefer this to the pure apathy displayed by the Glazers over the past fifteen years.

 

[romufc]

Everyone knows that restructuring, downsizing and even firing people is needed sometimes, especially if a company is bloated, inefficient and when numbers look bad. And the club is doing the same with the players btw - selling the best paid players (Case and Rashford) as they dont justify their salaries anymore, and it looks like new contracts seem to be on a "normal" level. People can hate all these moves as much as they want, but if we want to be back at our best on all fronts, this is what we have to do - even raising ticket prices if necessary.

I wouldn't be too sure that everyone knows that. There are some people who think that it is naive to think that cutting costs will change things.

 

[Escobar]

I wouldn't be too sure that everyone knows that. There are some people who think that it is naive to think that cutting costs will change things.

They know, they just try to ignore it

 

[Escobar]

Correct. Unfortunately there’s a ruthless nature required in these types of situations. It’s not pretty, but I prefer this to the pure apathy displayed by the Glazers over the past fifteen years.

And we need to be aware of the consequences if not done now. People need to realize it is super urgent to get our finances under control and eventually lower the debt.

 

[romufc]

And we need to be aware of the consequences if not done now. People need to realize it is super urgent to get our finances under control and eventually lower the debt.

People think that only the players were overpaid.. it was the culture at the club, which is why the mood is "low". If i was overpaid for doing nothing and then was told that I have to work for my pay, my mood will be low too.

What they are doing is streamlining the club and making sure that it is efficiently run.

Look at our health and safety and catering department, I bet you they are all paid well and above industry standards, yet we get 1 star hygeine ratings... just like on the pitch, there has been no accountability in all departments.

Harsh decisions have to be made for a better future.

 

[Lyng]

This is the thing, you can't just pick and chose where you want to make savings. If the players aren't performing, then cuts will be made.

If the other staff are not performing, cuts will be made. What you dont know, is what the staff cuts were. They didn't start at the charity and christmas party though, they started with alot more before they got there.

Firstly, they started with Richard Arnold, John Murtough and a few more, the charity and xmas party was 6 months after their first cuts.

You just chose to ignore those cuts.

You talk about better mood and atmosphere, so in previous years where the Glazers spent so much money on parties, charity, excessive overpaid staff, what did the mood do? Did we do well on the pitch? No...

Regarding Ashworth, Ratcliffe has already come out and said they have made a few mistakes, you would prefer us to keep Ashworth on his high salary so it didn't look like a farce? got it.

If the club used your approach, oh we paid Ashworth release clause and was a mistake, so here guys here is 3m to spend how you want it...

Then you will say, why make redundancies, when its worth Antony's wage.. okay lets just keep the staff.

Unfortunately, that is not how businesses work.

Of course you can. Any semi decent business does cuts when they make sense. I work in a high profile job in the automotive industry so I know how business works.
I have not complained about staff cuts.

I complain about cuts like charity and christmas parties because all they do is create bad atmosphere and PR. Financially they are a drop in the bucket. Then you raise ticket prices while you have a lousy product. It reeks of a management that have no fecking clue what they are doing. If you think you can run a chemical business and any other business the same then quite frankly you have zero clue how business on a high level works.

Ashworth should not have been hired in the first place. They clearly didnt do their due diligence if it didnt take them longer to realise he was wrong for the job. That is embarrasing and tells a story of a lack of clear direction, which was a worry for many of us who looked at how much of a farce Nice and Lausanne have been.

 

[Escobar]

People think that only the players were overpaid.. it was the culture at the club, which is why the mood is "low". If i was overpaid for doing nothing and then was told that I have to work for my pay, my mood will be low too.

What they are doing is streamlining the club and making sure that it is efficiently run.

Look at our health and safety and catering department, I bet you they are all paid well and above industry standards, yet we get 1 star hygeine ratings... just like on the pitch, there has been no accountability in all departments.

Harsh decisions have to be made for a better future.

Absolutely. We have been run so poorly for 10 years, so of course it hurts now

 

[Lyng]

People think that only the players were overpaid.. it was the culture at the club, which is why the mood is "low". If i was overpaid for doing nothing and then was told that I have to work for my pay, my mood will be low too.

What they are doing is streamlining the club and making sure that it is efficiently run.

Look at our health and safety and catering department, I bet you they are all paid well and above industry standards, yet we get 1 star hygeine ratings... just like on the pitch, there has been no accountability in all departments.

Harsh decisions have to be made for a better future.

Manchester United are quite well known for paying very low wages.....unless its for the players of course.

 

[romufc]

Of course you can. Any semi decent business does cuts when they make sense. I work in a high profile job in the automotive industry so I know how business works.
I have not complained about staff cuts.

I complain about cuts like charity and christmas parties because all they do is create bad atmosphere and PR. Financially they are a drop in the bucket. Then you raise ticket prices while you have a lousy product. It reeks of a management that have no fecking clue what they are doing. If you think you can run a chemical business and any other business the same then quite frankly you have zero clue how business on a high level works.

Ashworth should not have been hired in the first place. They clearly didnt do their due diligence if it didnt take them longer to realise he was wrong for the job. That is embarrasing and tells a story of a lack of clear direction, which was a worry for many of us who looked at how much of a farce Nice and Lausanne have been.

It creates a bad atmosphere where? and bad PR? I thought we wanted to get away from PR United? So, you care more about PR than actually having a sustainable football club?

Right, so what you are saying in the bolded part is that you have no idea and just making things up? because you are being ignorant. INEOS investments are in more than just chemical business, team Sky, Sailing, F1, running, are all INEOS investments.

Finally, INEOS like any competent business would have carried out a full review of the finances and seen that this is failing.

Oh yes, welcome Mr Hindsight. Dont act as if you were saying that Ashworth isnt the right man, below are quotes from yourself.... now saying we shouldn't have hired him... People make mistakes, Ratcliffe has come out and owned his mistake saying they have made some, unlike some who sit on the hindsight trail and pretend they knew all along that Ashworth was not the right man.

The idea that Tuchel wanted full control is weird. That's just not who he is.
I was worried that he would say no when he met Ratcliffe. Had it been Ashworth I am sure he would have ended up as our manager.

I have some faith in Wilcox, Ashworth and Berrada, not so much in Jimmy and Brailsford.

Lyng:

"The sooner Ashworth gets installed the better."

 

[acnumber9]

I wouldn’t know as I haven’t observed the specifics of any of those situations.

Again, you can ridicule individual decisions, but that’s how wholesale changes are made. And I’m not sure what you mean by ‘growth of his portfolio’. Has he not already put over a billion pounds into this venture?

It means what it means. United are just another asset to him to stoke his personal wealth.

He paid it for stock. An extra £300m was supposedly invested in infrastructure but I’m not sure when and where that has happened. All part of the deal to get his hands on some of the club.

 

[acnumber9]

You can ask that but I can flip it and ask... having a huge christmas party and keeping excessive staff, for the last 10 years, were we more successful?

Almost like they aren’t related. Though we’re doing worse on the pitch currently so maybe it has made a difference.

Why not try and answer my question before you flip it?

 

[romufc]

Almost like they aren’t related. Though we’re doing worse on the pitch currently so maybe it has made a difference.

Why not try and answer my question before you flip it?

We were doing just as bad, which is why EtH got sacked. I wonder if people actually believe themselves sometimes.

To think that a christmas party is the reason we play bad on the pitch.

 

[acnumber9]

We were doing just as bad, which is why EtH got sacked. I wonder if people actually believe themselves sometimes.

To think that a christmas party is the reason we play bad on the pitch.

I haven’t suggested we played poorly because of Christmas parties being axed. Though we do have some performing mental gymnastics to pretend cutting admin staff and cancelling parties will make the slightest difference to help us perform better on the pitch. It’s the ideology of a Brexit voting, tax dodger and some people are lapping it up.

 

[romufc]

I haven’t suggested we played poorly because of Christmas parties being axed. Though we do have some performing mental gymnastics to pretend cutting admin staff and cancelling parties will make the slightest difference to help us perform better on the pitch. It’s the ideology of a Brexit voting, tax dodger and some people are lapping it up.

I know that, I am not refering to you.

 

[Red in STL]

It means what it means. United are just another asset to him to stoke his personal wealth.

He paid it for stock. An extra £300m was supposedly invested in infrastructure but I’m not sure when and where that has happened. All part of the deal to get his hands on some of the club.

I don't think you can claim that United are just another asset to stoke his personal weath

Ratcliffe is in his 70's, he paid well over the odds for what he bought and it will be years before he would see any return on the investment he's made, there's a reasonable chance he'll be dead before that happens

 

[Sarni]

How dare he question the amazing RUTHLESS owners.

 

[acnumber9]

I don't think you can claim that United are just another asset to stoke his personal weath

Ratcliffe is in his 70's, he paid well over the odds for what he bought and it will be years before he would see any return on the investment he's made, there's a reasonable chance he'll be dead before that happens

He was just as happy to buy Chelsea. Where he actually went to matches. It’s not just Ratcliffe investing. It’s INEOS. Were they just big Nice fans too?

 

[Red in STL]

He was just as happy to buy Chelsea. Where he actually went to matches. It’s not just Ratcliffe investing. It’s INEOS. Were they just big Nice fans too?

Ratcliffe is INEOS - he owns 2/3rd of it, what he says/wants goes

The difference between United and the others was that he wasn't paying over the odds like he has with United, of course he wnts to make money but I doubt that's the main objective

As for going to Chelsea matches, I've gone to plenty of matches where neither team was United, the only team I suppport, so have many others

 

[acnumber9]

Ratcliffe is INEOS - he owns 2/3rd of it, what he says/wants goes

The difference between United and the others was that he wasn't paying over the odds like he has with United, of course he wnts to make money but I doubt that's the main objective

As for going to Chelsea matches, I've gone to plenty of matches where neither team was United, the only team I suppport, so have many others

He isn’t INEOS though. He can’t just do what he likes and waste their money on toys.

He had a season ticket. When did this big fan ever go to United matches?

 

[Smores]

He was just as happy to buy Chelsea. Where he actually went to matches. It’s not just Ratcliffe investing. It’s INEOS. Were they just big Nice fans too?

Come on as a football fan if any of us had the money we'd be delighted to buy into any club bar maybe City and Liverpool. That doesn't mean it wouldn't mean a lot more to buy into United.

 

[acnumber9]

Come on as a football fan if any of us had the money we'd be delighted to buy into any club bar maybe City and Liverpool. That doesn't mean it wouldn't mean a lot more to buy into United.

I just don’t buy the altruistic fan story. If any of us had his money would we have a season ticket at another club when we could easily go and watch our own team?

 

[Smores]

I just don’t buy the altruistic fan story. If any of us had his money would we have a season ticket at another club when we could easily go and watch our own team?

I don't think it's necessary to focus on altruism. If I was wealthy enough to buy into United it wouldn't be for the pleasure of other fans it would be so I could try fix the club I support because I hate it being shit.

I think there's plenty of older fans desperate to see us win another title or two before they die.

 

[Lyng]

It creates a bad atmosphere where? and bad PR? I thought we wanted to get away from PR United? So, you care more about PR than actually having a sustainable football club?

Right, so what you are saying in the bolded part is that you have no idea and just making things up? because you are being ignorant. INEOS investments are in more than just chemical business, team Sky, Sailing, F1, running, are all INEOS investments.

Finally, INEOS like any competent business would have carried out a full review of the finances and seen that this is failing.

Oh yes, welcome Mr Hindsight. Dont act as if you were saying that Ashworth isnt the right man, below are quotes from yourself.... now saying we shouldn't have hired him... People make mistakes, Ratcliffe has come out and owned his mistake saying they have made some, unlike some who sit on the hindsight trail and pretend they knew all along that Ashworth was not the right man.




Lyng:

"The sooner Ashworth gets installed the better."

Am I employed by United? what a moronic post. I wasn't part of meetings prior to him getting hired so how the feck was I supposed to know? The management of United where though.
Their cycling and F1 adventures aren't exactly a success either.

 

[Lyng]

We were doing just as bad, which is why EtH got sacked. I wonder if people actually believe themselves sometimes.

To think that a christmas party is the reason we play bad on the pitch.

Nobody said that but it creates negativity. Something that isn't exactly a commodity we need more of at the moment. Staff cuts where needed but some of these saving move next to nothing financially which Kieran has laid out nicely.
The frustration is that some fans just lick the corporate boot because it's good ol Jim, instead of actually taking a objective look at measures.
Give credit where it's due but not being allowed to be critical of Ineos seems weird as feck.

 

[romufc]

Am I employed by United? what a moronic post. I wasn't part of meetings prior to him getting hired so how the feck was I supposed to know? The management of United where though.
Their cycling and F1 adventures aren't exactly a success either.

Well you are the one who said... he shouldn't have been hired in the first place.

So you dont know about the club but have been giving it the large about how you know that cuts wont make any difference... hypocrite much?

Erm... since they bought into it in 2020 they have won the constructors championship and come second a few times. Clearly success for you is something different.

So winning a tour de France is called a failure too. got it.

 

[Lyng]

Well you are the one who said... he shouldn't have been hired in the first place.

So you dont know about the club but have been giving it the large about how you know that cuts wont make any difference... hypocrite much?

Erm... since they bought into it in 2020 they have won the constructors championship and come second a few times. Clearly success for you is something different.

So winning a tour de France is called a failure too. got it.

How is it going for the F1 team.

Can you please try to read? I said they should have done their due diligence and not hired him. Given it took such a short time to realise, by their own briefs, that he had a very different idea of what type of team it should be, it seems quite reasonable to question how that was not discovered in strategy meetings prior to his hiring.

How are Nice doing? Lausanne?

 

[acnumber9]

I don't think it's necessary to focus on altruism. If I was wealthy enough to buy into United it wouldn't be for the pleasure of other fans it would be so I could try fix the club I support because I hate it being shit.

I think there's plenty of older fans desperate to see us win another title or two before they die.

Sacking admin staff isn’t going to make that happen.

 

[romufc]

How is it going for the F1 team.

Can you please try to read? I said they should have done their due diligence and not hired him. Given it took such a short time to realise, by their own briefs, that he had a very different idea of what type of team it should be, it seems quite reasonable to question how that was not discovered in strategy meetings prior to his hiring.

How are Nice doing? Lausanne?

F1, there are rumours that the next Mercedes car will be quite good actually, they definitely haven't become complete rubbish.

Nice are 6th in French league, as you are aware alot of owners have multiple clubs.

Citys owners have loads of clubs, doesnt mean they all need to win the league. But ofcourse for you City group might be called unsuccessful because majority of their clubs dont win titles.

 

[Red in STL]

He isn’t INEOS though. He can’t just do what he likes and waste their money on toys.

He had a season ticket. When did this big fan ever go to United matches?

INEOS is basically owned by 3 people - he has twice as many shares as the others so basically he can do what he wants

As I understand it the season ticket he had was mostly used for entertaining clients in London

 

[Lyng]

F1, there are rumours that the next Mercedes car will be quite good actually, they definitely haven't become complete rubbish.

Nice are 6th in French league, as you are aware alot of owners have multiple clubs.

Girona are doing quite well though.
I will say this. Even though I am very critical of Ineos, I do want it to work out. State ownership is a no go for me.

 

[acnumber9]

INEOS is basically owned by 3 people - he has twice as many shares as the others so basically he can do what he wants

As I understand it the season ticket he had was mostly used for entertaining clients in London

No he can’t. He still has responsibility to act in the interest of his shareholders.

 

[Red in STL]

No he can’t. He still has responsibility to act in the interest of his shareholders.

It's a private company so he doesn't have such a resposibility, if it was a public company that would be different

 

[acnumber9]

It's a private company so he doesn't have such a resposibility, if it was a public company that would be different

Do you think he could wake up one morning and decide that he’s going to spend all the company money on Pringles and he would just get away with that?

 

[Chesterlestreet]

Harsh decisions have to be made for a better future.

Absolutely, yes.

But we already know that ol' Jim is a ruthless businessman who knows how to run a...business. Nobody presumably doubts his qualities in that regard.

The question is whether he knows how to run a football club.

Which is not a "normal" business by any stretch of the imagination.

And - more to the point, really (because running a random football club in the sense of not bankrupting it...isn't what we're talking about here) - does he know how to run a huge football club, a football club that should be among the very best in terms of history, fan base and resources?

Well, does he? I have no idea, to be honest. I hope he does, but nothing so far seems - to me - to be undoubtedly leaning towards a "yes, finally!" answer to that very crucial question.

 

[Red in STL]

Do you think he could wake up one morning and decide that he’s going to spend all the company money on Pringles and he would just get away with that?

Probably not but he's already bought a chunk of United that's worth way less than what was actually paid for it - for Ratcliffe ,and thus INEOS, it's a personal vanity project not a real investment