Yep and we still make losses. Its naive to think that because the club generates one of the highest revenue... outgoing costs can be unlimited.
A party costs 250k, add to that all the other savings, you are looking at in excess of £10m saving a year on staff. Then add to that the club are looking to lower the wage bill, so Rashford, Casemiro, Sancho for starters will save the club another £50m.
So it is Incredibly naive to think that £60/70 savings a year will not change things.
Even he knows that cancelling a Christmas party won’t help the team on the pitch. The growth of his portfolio means feck all to me.To be honest, he might be an arsehole, but I think SJR knows a thing or two about making businesses more efficient financially, so I’ll probably trust his judgement in this particular case.
Notice I didnt lump in the savings on wage bills. That is one of the major improvements i will give Ineos. contracts seem to be handled much better now, and thos savings are significant.
However charity and christmas party arent where you should start, especially at a club that has been in turmoil and needs a better mood all around and atmosphere.
The Ashworth farce cost of far more than those small savings on charity and christmas parties.
I wouldn’t know as I haven’t observed the specifics of any of those situations.Even he knows that cancelling a Christmas party won’t help the team on the pitch. The growth of his portfolio means feck all to me.
Has efficiency driving made his other football clubs more successful?
Even he knows that cancelling a Christmas party won’t help the team on the pitch. The growth of his portfolio means feck all to me.
Has efficiency driving made his other football clubs more successful?
Everyone knows that restructuring, downsizing and even firing people is needed sometimes, especially if a company is bloated, inefficient and when numbers look bad. And the club is doing the same with the players btw - selling the best paid players (Case and Rashford) as they dont justify their salaries anymore, and it looks like new contracts seem to be on a "normal" level. People can hate all these moves as much as they want, but if we want to be back at our best on all fronts, this is what we have to do - even raising ticket prices if necessary.To be honest, he might be an arsehole, but I think SJR knows a thing or two about making businesses more efficient financially, so I’ll probably trust his judgement in this particular case.
Correct. Unfortunately there’s a ruthless nature required in these types of situations. It’s not pretty, but I prefer this to the pure apathy displayed by the Glazers over the past fifteen years.Everyone knows that restructuring, downsizing and even firing people is needed sometimes, especially if a company is bloated, inefficient and when numbers look bad. And the club is doing the same with the players btw - selling the best paid players (Case and Rashford) as they dont justify their salaries anymore, and it looks like new contracts seem to be on a "normal" level. People can hate all these moves as much as they want, but if we want to be back at our best on all fronts, this is what we have to do - even raising ticket prices if necessary.
Everyone knows that restructuring, downsizing and even firing people is needed sometimes, especially if a company is bloated, inefficient and when numbers look bad. And the club is doing the same with the players btw - selling the best paid players (Case and Rashford) as they dont justify their salaries anymore, and it looks like new contracts seem to be on a "normal" level. People can hate all these moves as much as they want, but if we want to be back at our best on all fronts, this is what we have to do - even raising ticket prices if necessary.
They know, they just try to ignore itI wouldn't be too sure that everyone knows that. There are some people who think that it is naive to think that cutting costs will change things.
And we need to be aware of the consequences if not done now. People need to realize it is super urgent to get our finances under control and eventually lower the debt.Correct. Unfortunately there’s a ruthless nature required in these types of situations. It’s not pretty, but I prefer this to the pure apathy displayed by the Glazers over the past fifteen years.
And we need to be aware of the consequences if not done now. People need to realize it is super urgent to get our finances under control and eventually lower the debt.
This is the thing, you can't just pick and chose where you want to make savings. If the players aren't performing, then cuts will be made.
If the other staff are not performing, cuts will be made. What you dont know, is what the staff cuts were. They didn't start at the charity and christmas party though, they started with alot more before they got there.
Firstly, they started with Richard Arnold, John Murtough and a few more, the charity and xmas party was 6 months after their first cuts.
You just chose to ignore those cuts.
You talk about better mood and atmosphere, so in previous years where the Glazers spent so much money on parties, charity, excessive overpaid staff, what did the mood do? Did we do well on the pitch? No...
Regarding Ashworth, Ratcliffe has already come out and said they have made a few mistakes, you would prefer us to keep Ashworth on his high salary so it didn't look like a farce? got it.
If the club used your approach, oh we paid Ashworth release clause and was a mistake, so here guys here is 3m to spend how you want it...
Then you will say, why make redundancies, when its worth Antony's wage.. okay lets just keep the staff.
Unfortunately, that is not how businesses work.
Absolutely. We have been run so poorly for 10 years, so of course it hurts nowPeople think that only the players were overpaid.. it was the culture at the club, which is why the mood is "low". If i was overpaid for doing nothing and then was told that I have to work for my pay, my mood will be low too.
What they are doing is streamlining the club and making sure that it is efficiently run.
Look at our health and safety and catering department, I bet you they are all paid well and above industry standards, yet we get 1 star hygeine ratings... just like on the pitch, there has been no accountability in all departments.
Harsh decisions have to be made for a better future.
People think that only the players were overpaid.. it was the culture at the club, which is why the mood is "low". If i was overpaid for doing nothing and then was told that I have to work for my pay, my mood will be low too.
What they are doing is streamlining the club and making sure that it is efficiently run.
Look at our health and safety and catering department, I bet you they are all paid well and above industry standards, yet we get 1 star hygeine ratings... just like on the pitch, there has been no accountability in all departments.
Harsh decisions have to be made for a better future.
Of course you can. Any semi decent business does cuts when they make sense. I work in a high profile job in the automotive industry so I know how business works.
I have not complained about staff cuts.
I complain about cuts like charity and christmas parties because all they do is create bad atmosphere and PR. Financially they are a drop in the bucket. Then you raise ticket prices while you have a lousy product. It reeks of a management that have no fecking clue what they are doing. If you think you can run a chemical business and any other business the same then quite frankly you have zero clue how business on a high level works.
Ashworth should not have been hired in the first place. They clearly didnt do their due diligence if it didnt take them longer to realise he was wrong for the job. That is embarrasing and tells a story of a lack of clear direction, which was a worry for many of us who looked at how much of a farce Nice and Lausanne have been.
The idea that Tuchel wanted full control is weird. That's just not who he is.
I was worried that he would say no when he met Ratcliffe. Had it been Ashworth I am sure he would have ended up as our manager.
I have some faith in Wilcox, Ashworth and Berrada, not so much in Jimmy and Brailsford.
It means what it means. United are just another asset to him to stoke his personal wealth.I wouldn’t know as I haven’t observed the specifics of any of those situations.
Again, you can ridicule individual decisions, but that’s how wholesale changes are made. And I’m not sure what you mean by ‘growth of his portfolio’. Has he not already put over a billion pounds into this venture?
Almost like they aren’t related. Though we’re doing worse on the pitch currently so maybe it has made a difference.You can ask that but I can flip it and ask... having a huge christmas party and keeping excessive staff, for the last 10 years, were we more successful?
Almost like they aren’t related. Though we’re doing worse on the pitch currently so maybe it has made a difference.
Why not try and answer my question before you flip it?
I haven’t suggested we played poorly because of Christmas parties being axed. Though we do have some performing mental gymnastics to pretend cutting admin staff and cancelling parties will make the slightest difference to help us perform better on the pitch. It’s the ideology of a Brexit voting, tax dodger and some people are lapping it up.We were doing just as bad, which is why EtH got sacked. I wonder if people actually believe themselves sometimes.
To think that a christmas party is the reason we play bad on the pitch.
I haven’t suggested we played poorly because of Christmas parties being axed. Though we do have some performing mental gymnastics to pretend cutting admin staff and cancelling parties will make the slightest difference to help us perform better on the pitch. It’s the ideology of a Brexit voting, tax dodger and some people are lapping it up.
I don't think you can claim that United are just another asset to stoke his personal weathIt means what it means. United are just another asset to him to stoke his personal wealth.
He paid it for stock. An extra £300m was supposedly invested in infrastructure but I’m not sure when and where that has happened. All part of the deal to get his hands on some of the club.
He was just as happy to buy Chelsea. Where he actually went to matches. It’s not just Ratcliffe investing. It’s INEOS. Were they just big Nice fans too?I don't think you can claim that United are just another asset to stoke his personal weath
Ratcliffe is in his 70's, he paid well over the odds for what he bought and it will be years before he would see any return on the investment he's made, there's a reasonable chance he'll be dead before that happens
Ratcliffe is INEOS - he owns 2/3rd of it, what he says/wants goesHe was just as happy to buy Chelsea. Where he actually went to matches. It’s not just Ratcliffe investing. It’s INEOS. Were they just big Nice fans too?
He isn’t INEOS though. He can’t just do what he likes and waste their money on toys.Ratcliffe is INEOS - he owns 2/3rd of it, what he says/wants goes
The difference between United and the others was that he wasn't paying over the odds like he has with United, of course he wnts to make money but I doubt that's the main objective
As for going to Chelsea matches, I've gone to plenty of matches where neither team was United, the only team I suppport, so have many others
He was just as happy to buy Chelsea. Where he actually went to matches. It’s not just Ratcliffe investing. It’s INEOS. Were they just big Nice fans too?
I just don’t buy the altruistic fan story. If any of us had his money would we have a season ticket at another club when we could easily go and watch our own team?Come on as a football fan if any of us had the money we'd be delighted to buy into any club bar maybe City and Liverpool. That doesn't mean it wouldn't mean a lot more to buy into United.
I just don’t buy the altruistic fan story. If any of us had his money would we have a season ticket at another club when we could easily go and watch our own team?
It creates a bad atmosphere where? and bad PR? I thought we wanted to get away from PR United? So, you care more about PR than actually having a sustainable football club?
Right, so what you are saying in the bolded part is that you have no idea and just making things up? because you are being ignorant. INEOS investments are in more than just chemical business, team Sky, Sailing, F1, running, are all INEOS investments.
Finally, INEOS like any competent business would have carried out a full review of the finances and seen that this is failing.
Oh yes, welcome Mr Hindsight. Dont act as if you were saying that Ashworth isnt the right man, below are quotes from yourself.... now saying we shouldn't have hired him... People make mistakes, Ratcliffe has come out and owned his mistake saying they have made some, unlike some who sit on the hindsight trail and pretend they knew all along that Ashworth was not the right man.
Lyng:
"The sooner Ashworth gets installed the better."
We were doing just as bad, which is why EtH got sacked. I wonder if people actually believe themselves sometimes.
To think that a christmas party is the reason we play bad on the pitch.
Am I employed by United? what a moronic post. I wasn't part of meetings prior to him getting hired so how the feck was I supposed to know? The management of United where though.
Their cycling and F1 adventures aren't exactly a success either.
Well you are the one who said... he shouldn't have been hired in the first place.
So you dont know about the club but have been giving it the large about how you know that cuts wont make any difference... hypocrite much?
Erm... since they bought into it in 2020 they have won the constructors championship and come second a few times. Clearly success for you is something different.
So winning a tour de France is called a failure too. got it.
Sacking admin staff isn’t going to make that happen.I don't think it's necessary to focus on altruism. If I was wealthy enough to buy into United it wouldn't be for the pleasure of other fans it would be so I could try fix the club I support because I hate it being shit.
I think there's plenty of older fans desperate to see us win another title or two before they die.
How is it going for the F1 team.
Can you please try to read? I said they should have done their due diligence and not hired him. Given it took such a short time to realise, by their own briefs, that he had a very different idea of what type of team it should be, it seems quite reasonable to question how that was not discovered in strategy meetings prior to his hiring.
How are Nice doing? Lausanne?
INEOS is basically owned by 3 people - he has twice as many shares as the others so basically he can do what he wantsHe isn’t INEOS though. He can’t just do what he likes and waste their money on toys.
He had a season ticket. When did this big fan ever go to United matches?
F1, there are rumours that the next Mercedes car will be quite good actually, they definitely haven't become complete rubbish.
Nice are 6th in French league, as you are aware alot of owners have multiple clubs.
No he can’t. He still has responsibility to act in the interest of his shareholders.INEOS is basically owned by 3 people - he has twice as many shares as the others so basically he can do what he wants
As I understand it the season ticket he had was mostly used for entertaining clients in London
It's a private company so he doesn't have such a resposibility, if it was a public company that would be differentNo he can’t. He still has responsibility to act in the interest of his shareholders.
Do you think he could wake up one morning and decide that he’s going to spend all the company money on Pringles and he would just get away with that?It's a private company so he doesn't have such a resposibility, if it was a public company that would be different
Harsh decisions have to be made for a better future.
