Club ownership | Senior management team talk

We’re 14th because of their indecision in keeping a lame duck manager. We’ve wasted yet more money on players not up to the required standard. They chased a Director of football for months before sacking him a few months later. They’ve cut jobs, put ticket prices up. It’s demonstrably worse than it was before.
Not sacking eth was a stupid decision and I have already pointed that out. One more mistake like that and knives will be fully out.

I would say sacking ashworth is not a bad move as at least they figured it is not going to work than persisting with it. I don't think so far the summer signings look a disaster one maybe minus zirkzee who we can recoup some money back.
 


Can someone please explain how are we ever going to pay the debt off? I'm not clued up with all this stuff but with PSR etc are our 2 owners allowed to just pay some off if they wanted to? Because I can't see how we can invest in everything we need to when we're paying 50 million or whatever it is per year for that.

The long term debt (roughly 500m) will be need to be refinanced in the next few years. Realistically we will carry it indefinitely though the need for new debt (for say a stadium) might require a different approach. It is a hindrance cash wise and wrt the profitability tests for sure. The 2 principal owners could pay it back but we are a plc with multiple owners so no one owner is going to charitably pay down the debt (and thus benefit the non donating parties). The club could issue new shares and use the proceeds to pay down the existing long term debt (and that would be akin to all shareholders agreeing to paying down the debt), but investment wise that wouldn't make much sense at this time.
We are a for profit plc. The goal is to be self financing and provide shareholders with a return. In other words, for INEOS and the Glazers, we have to be more profitable than what PSR\FPP requires. And the club will have to pay for its own stadium (with likely more debt).

Folks on here are a little too obsessed with PSR/ FFP. We are compliant and probably have some room to spend more this Jan and still be compliant. Thing is, what you can do in theory doesn't stack up in reality.
Expenses that can be ignored in the profitability testing have to be paid in real life and we don't get to ignore what happened in the distant past (FPP only looks back 3 years). Our current cash position is a reflection of decisions, good and bad, since, well, forever. FPP and co overstate profitability and cash availability. A club that just makes break even on the profitability tests would require regular investment to keep afloat. A club working to the permissible loss limit would require even more. Our current owners are not the type to prop up the club like that. They want the club to be truly profitable and if the club is truly profitable then compliance isn't an issue.

So, a club can be compliant and have the room to spend more (according to the tests) but not have the capacity to do so because of its actual cash position. And I reckon this is where we are at.
If the club stopped buying (and selling) players for 3 year, it would still have an average net spend of 100+m a year for the next 3 years (as a result of payments due to other clubs for players already acquired). All else being equal, expected cash profits over the next 3 years would just about cover it and clear some of the credit card debt (latest figure of 230m). Now, obviously that's not a realistic proposition, but it illustrates the bind we're in cash wise. It's hard to finagle a budget for additional players when 3 to 4 years worth of budgets remains outstanding. At some stage, unless you're in the excavation business, you have to stop digging.

The deal that brought INEOS to the club was pretty miserly for the club. 200m sterling to the club wasn't nearly enough and of course an equivalent amount was spend on supporting a manager they didn't trust and subsequently fired. A woeful start for them and not entirely encouraging for the rest of us. That deal also meant that cost cutting was inevitable and indeed was probably priority number one on their agenda .

Financially though the situation is salvageable. We are high earners, but we can't continue to be shopaholic high earners. And we can't do all the things we need to do at once. A new stadium will cost but ultimately it will be self financing. There are also a lot of "levers" (even more than Barca) we can pull to help meet the initial costs of the build.
 
I doubt it. He doesn't have that cash for that price for the rest of United. Feckin' Elon had to get financing to buy Twitter.

All these petty cost cutting is a PR activity -- window dressing of sorts for the next round of serious capital injection. External source.

He is showing potential new partners (top 5 richest men in the world or more likely sovereign funds) that he is ruthlessly trimming away the fat within the Club -- to make it more attractive for the next round.. he paid 80million quid for 1% of the club. So we are playing in that 8billion valuation league. There aren't many folks lift in that bracket.

I think he, like Woodward believes that United is a money machine regardless of its on field performance. Both existing revenue streams/model and unlocking future new business models. And reaching the potential 400-600 million GLOBAL United fans. That's his pitch to the uber-billionaires and sovereign funds.
Maybe this is what will eventually happen, but I doubt it is what Ratcliffe has been planning from the start. He's been involved with sports for years now (Nice, Lausanne, cycling, sailing) and it doesn't seem to be in order to make money. In general buying sports teams is a great way to lose lots of money, unless you're in America with salary caps and no relegation. I believe him when he said if he was in it to turn a profit he'd buy another chemical plant. Also disagree that the petty cost cutting is PR, from what I gather its the sort of thing he does at INEOS and its subsidiaries so he's just following his regular playbook there.

I have no idea if he can actually afford to buy the rest of the club, although looking at his net worth he should be able to finance it. He has first refusal on further Glazer share sales so that seems to be his intention. Although yes I think its possible if he can't turn things around that he and the Glazers lose their appetites and sell to a sovereign wealth fund eventually.
 
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The formation doesn’t matter that much though. Our fundamental issue is not the formation it’s that the players are suited to low block, pragmatic, counter attacking and transition football. The players also lack pace, physicality and athleticism.

Of course a change of formation benefits or hinders some of the squad but what we are trying to tackle now is that changing the approach or game model etc is that it exposes the majority of our players. We need to start identifying and recruitment players suited to pressing, controlling possession and with the right physical qualities.

Good players with the right skillset will make the formation less relevant. Amad can play RW in a 4-2-3-1 or RWB in this 3-4-3, or behind the striker. Our issue is we are stuck with a lot of players who will fail irrespective of the formation or who need us to never try anything other than transitions and counter attacks.
Truth, preech on! If these players were better physically and technically Ten Hag wouldn't have got the sack. Arsenal, City and Liverpool play a variation of what he was trying to do but they don't lose the ball cheaply and recover it better.
The long term debt (roughly 500m) will be need to be refinanced in the next few years. Realistically we will carry it indefinitely though the need for new debt (for say a stadium) might require a different approach. It is a hindrance cash wise and wrt the profitability tests for sure. The 2 principal owners could pay it back but we are a plc with multiple owners so no one owner is going to charitably pay down the debt (and thus benefit the non donating parties). The club could issue new shares and use the proceeds to pay down the existing long term debt (and that would be akin to all shareholders agreeing to paying down the debt), but investment wise that wouldn't make much sense at this time.
We are a for profit plc. The goal is to be self financing and provide shareholders with a return. In other words, for INEOS and the Glazers, we have to be more profitable than what PSR\FPP requires. And the club will have to pay for its own stadium (with likely more debt).

Folks on here are a little too obsessed with PSR/ FFP. We are compliant and probably have some room to spend more this Jan and still be compliant. Thing is, what you can do in theory doesn't stack up in reality.
Expenses that can be ignored in the profitability testing have to be paid in real life and we don't get to ignore what happened in the distant past (FPP only looks back 3 years). Our current cash position is a reflection of decisions, good and bad, since, well, forever. FPP and co overstate profitability and cash availability. A club that just makes break even on the profitability tests would require regular investment to keep afloat. A club working to the permissible loss limit would require even more. Our current owners are not the type to prop up the club like that. They want the club to be truly profitable and if the club is truly profitable then compliance isn't an issue.

So, a club can be compliant and have the room to spend more (according to the tests) but not have the capacity to do so because of its actual cash position. And I reckon this is where we are at.
If the club stopped buying (and selling) players for 3 year, it would still have an average net spend of 100+m a year for the next 3 years (as a result of payments due to other clubs for players already acquired). All else being equal, expected cash profits over the next 3 years would just about cover it and clear some of the credit card debt (latest figure of 230m). Now, obviously that's not a realistic proposition, but it illustrates the bind we're in cash wise. It's hard to finagle a budget for additional players when 3 to 4 years worth of budgets remains outstanding. At some stage, unless you're in the excavation business, you have to stop digging.
Yes to be real our transfer strategy has to change dramatically for us to stop the bleeding. I think that's why Rashford and Casemiro are being pushed out, partly and mainly because their performances aren't taking us to the level we need to operate at to be profitable.
The deal that brought INEOS to the club was pretty miserly for the club. 200m sterling to the club wasn't nearly enough and of course an equivalent amount was spend on supporting a manager they didn't trust and subsequently fired. A woeful start for them and not entirely encouraging for the rest of us. That deal also meant that cost cutting was inevitable and indeed was probably priority number one on their agenda .

Financially though the situation is salvageable. We are high earners, but we can't continue to be shopaholic high earners. And we can't do all the things we need to do at once. A new stadium will cost but ultimately it will be self financing. There are also a lot of "levers" (even more than Barca) we can pull to help meet the initial costs of the build.
This is why I said we are going to need Carrington, Vivel and Wilcox to come up big for us over the next few years - another Rashford, Garnacho and Mainoo would be handy right now. That's the only way we can offset past mistakes otherwise, even if Amorim survives this slump, he won't last next season because we don't have the money to rebuild at a rate that's quick enough to be effective because we are looking at 6 - 8 new players required.
 
It looks more and more it's a big mistake sacking Ashworth. The current mess prove that they don't have a proper plan by changing manager mid-season. The problem is there is no continuity of style of play from ETH to Amorim. It seems Amorim need another new 24 players to play his style.
 
It looks more and more it's a big mistake sacking Ashworth. The current mess prove that they don't have a proper plan by changing manager mid-season. The problem is there is no continuity of style of play from ETH to Amorim. It seems Amorim need another new 24 players to play his style.
If he is the guy who got them into the Ten Hag mess then it would be understable if SJR was pissed. When the decision to keep Ten Hag was made that's where the season was written off. There was a slight chance that Amorim could come in and get things back on course but we are here now.

You are being a tad dramatic, he wouldn't need 24 players if we had a competent base to begin with. We allowed Ten Hag to spend half a billion on slow and weak players to add on to the pile that got Ole and Mourinho sacked. Coming back from that, under anyone is what is going to need 24 players not just Amorim.

Off head, pretty much every player signed by Ten Hag needs to go or will soon require an expensive upgrade. If the players we have were actually usable Amorim wouldn't need many players and tbf he doesn't, give him two or three players right now and things will change.
 
If he is the guy who got them into the Ten Hag mess then it would be understable if SJR was pissed. When the decision to keep Ten Hag was made that's where the season was written off. There was a slight chance that Amorim could come in and get things back on course but we are here now.

You are being a tad dramatic, he wouldn't need 24 players if we had a competent base to begin with. We allowed Ten Hag to spend half a billion on slow and weak players to add on to the pile that got Ole and Mourinho sacked. Coming back from that, under anyone is what is going to need 24 players not just Amorim.

Off head, pretty much every player signed by Ten Hag needs to go or will soon require an expensive upgrade. If the players we have were actually usable Amorim wouldn't need many players and tbf he doesn't, give him two or three players right now and things will change.
Why 2 or 3 and not 24? We are currently in relegation form. It does look like at the very least he needs a new starting 11 to play his style of play. Maybe 10 minus Amad.
 
It looks more and more it's a big mistake sacking Ashworth. The current mess prove that they don't have a proper plan by changing manager mid-season. The problem is there is no continuity of style of play from ETH to Amorim. It seems Amorim need another new 24 players to play his style.

But our tactics were all over the place under ETH, what manager could or would want to play the same way. Surely we want someone different rather than just carrying on with something that wasn’t working. The fact they want to change suggests the opposite, that there is a plan to change our approach, to gut the squad and replace players who’s aren’t up to it, rather than just repeat the same cycle.

The club ignored RR saying the squad needed open heart surgery, ETH abandoned trying to change how we played because he didn’t have the players. It just meant we spent years and hundreds of millions going round in a circle.

Maybe it was a mistake sacking Ashworth maybe it wasn’t. If as reported he wanted to keep ETH or his idea of who to replace him with included Southgate then I’d say it wasn’t a mistake.
 
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If he is the guy who got them into the Ten Hag mess then it would be understable if SJR was pissed. When the decision to keep Ten Hag was made that's where the season was written off. There was a slight chance that Amorim could come in and get things back on course but we are here now.
Ashworth wasn't even an employee of the club at the time though
 
Why 2 or 3 and not 24? We are currently in relegation form. It does look like at the very least he needs a new starting 11 to play his style of play. Maybe 10 minus Amad.
The weakest link breaks the chain, our chain is not that strong but if we then weak links throughout they drop the floor of the team. A LWB and a striker who can make the right runs, play others into play and also score a decent amount would change this team. We won't be winning against the likes of Liverpool but we would be beating the likes of Wolves, Bournemouth and Forest and competing against others. This team is too weak to carry non performing players.

Those are just the immediate needs, from there on if we get a couple of good midfielders, a CB etc we will improve. Basically the players we needed even in a 442/433/4231 are still the same players we still need. Would Trent fail to play RWB? Would Evra fail? These are or were the fullbacks at title winning sides so I won't believe that signing such players is now a big deal. Same with a left sided 10, Ronaldinho excelled in such a role, I am sure Rooney could do it albeit not as effectively but the same players can play in back four systems too.
 
Considering the debt that Glazers-SJR refuse to pay, the infrastructure that is basically not up for scratch (OT, Carrington etc) which will further increase that debt, a squad that need to be rebuilt from scratch + United registering losses year in year out then its becoming increasingly obvious that we do need a sugar daddy. It doesn't help that our owners has no clue of how to successfully run a football club

Regarding SJR who on earth think its a good idea to

a- put a bicycle man at board level
b- pay 2m to release a sporting director, we wait for him for months and then we fire him after 5 months
c- court managers for an entire summer (thus ruining any authority ETH on this squad), we then do a 180 by giving ETH a contract extension and 200m to spend only to fire him in few months time
d- we bring a manager whose system is completely different to ETH's only to refuse spending good money for him in january to rebuild the squad


Oh well there's always the fans to bail out each and every mistake they make. That's the United way I guess. SJR bails the Glazers out, his team makes their share of mistakes as well and we pick up the tab for both

We're currently sitting in 14th place and by the looks of it (Liverpool and then Arsenal) we've yet to hit the bottom. I don't recall that we ever been in such low position in the past 35 years of following United.

We only need a sugar daddy owner if we want all of that plus instant success. It seems to me that they’re approaching it with a more sustainable and holistic approach. I’m sure the stadium will be resolved one way or another, that’s never a quick process anyway. And I’m sure we’ll have money to spend in the summer, it’s just a question of a) is it going to be enough money to satisfy the fans? and b) will we recruit well?

You’re right that we’ve never been in a worse position in a long time. But that’s symptomatic of the issues that they’re also being criticised for trying to sort. All we can do is hope that it’s successful in the end, the positive is that they are at least trying to do something about it, and will act quickly when they realise they’ve made a mistake (Ashworth). Let’s just see how it plays out before getting the pitch forks out and potentially ruining something that could potentially be a positive.

With regards to your point…

a) I sort of agree but ultimately it doesn’t matter to me unless he’s interfering and having a negative effect. That doesn’t appear to be the case. And he’s more qualified than some of our other/previous board members in terms of his experience within sports and business.
b) on the face of it, it’s just ridiculous I agree. But, I said at the offset that they’d get some hires/decisions wrong and it’s going to be their ability to recognise this and act that will lead to their success. So a positive in some ways.
c) agreed, but may be linked to b. And rumours were that SJR didn’t agree with the decision but rightly didn’t want to interfere with his footballing guys decision.
d) yeah agreed. The only way this makes sense to me is if they’ve agreed that Amorim gets a free shot this season and takes the time to see which players he can work with going forward. Otherwise they’ve completely set him up to fail if they knew he wanted to change the system, which they obviously would have done.
 
Not sacking eth was a stupid decision and I have already pointed that out. One more mistake like that and knives will be fully out.

I would say sacking ashworth is not a bad move as at least they figured it is not going to work than persisting with it. I don't think so far the summer signings look a disaster one maybe minus zirkzee who we can recoup some money back.
I hope we can recoup the zirkzee money back but I very much doubt it, mainly seems to be Italian sides interested who will Jo doubt offer a loan or crap fee. Which of the rest really improve us in this system? Yoro is obviously still young but spending so much on a prospect when we have such immediate needs is highly questionable.

Sacking ashworth may be better than sticking woth something that doesn't work but by most accounts Ratcliffe didn't really know what he was getting when he appointed him despite having focussed solely on him when looking for a director of football. It all seems quite avoidable and costly at that
 
The long term debt (roughly 500m) will be need to be refinanced in the next few years. Realistically we will carry it indefinitely though the need for new debt (for say a stadium) might require a different approach. It is a hindrance cash wise and wrt the profitability tests for sure. The 2 principal owners could pay it back but we are a plc with multiple owners so no one owner is going to charitably pay down the debt (and thus benefit the non donating parties). The club could issue new shares and use the proceeds to pay down the existing long term debt (and that would be akin to all shareholders agreeing to paying down the debt), but investment wise that wouldn't make much sense at this time.
We are a for profit plc. The goal is to be self financing and provide shareholders with a return. In other words, for INEOS and the Glazers, we have to be more profitable than what PSR\FPP requires. And the club will have to pay for its own stadium (with likely more debt).

Folks on here are a little too obsessed with PSR/ FFP. We are compliant and probably have some room to spend more this Jan and still be compliant. Thing is, what you can do in theory doesn't stack up in reality.
Expenses that can be ignored in the profitability testing have to be paid in real life and we don't get to ignore what happened in the distant past (FPP only looks back 3 years). Our current cash position is a reflection of decisions, good and bad, since, well, forever. FPP and co overstate profitability and cash availability. A club that just makes break even on the profitability tests would require regular investment to keep afloat. A club working to the permissible loss limit would require even more. Our current owners are not the type to prop up the club like that. They want the club to be truly profitable and if the club is truly profitable then compliance isn't an issue.

So, a club can be compliant and have the room to spend more (according to the tests) but not have the capacity to do so because of its actual cash position. And I reckon this is where we are at.
If the club stopped buying (and selling) players for 3 year, it would still have an average net spend of 100+m a year for the next 3 years (as a result of payments due to other clubs for players already acquired). All else being equal, expected cash profits over the next 3 years would just about cover it and clear some of the credit card debt (latest figure of 230m). Now, obviously that's not a realistic proposition, but it illustrates the bind we're in cash wise. It's hard to finagle a budget for additional players when 3 to 4 years worth of budgets remains outstanding. At some stage, unless you're in the excavation business, you have to stop digging.

The deal that brought INEOS to the club was pretty miserly for the club. 200m sterling to the club wasn't nearly enough and of course an equivalent amount was spend on supporting a manager they didn't trust and subsequently fired. A woeful start for them and not entirely encouraging for the rest of us. That deal also meant that cost cutting was inevitable and indeed was probably priority number one on their agenda .

Financially though the situation is salvageable. We are high earners, but we can't continue to be shopaholic high earners. And we can't do all the things we need to do at once. A new stadium will cost but ultimately it will be self financing. There are also a lot of "levers" (even more than Barca) we can pull to help meet the initial costs of the build.
Thanks for the explanation.
In theory could they both agree to pay an amount, say 150m each to reduce it or isn't that allowed under psr or any other restrictions?
I understand that Chelsea have some magical way of selling their unwanted players but how are they able to spend a billion? Is it just down to sales or has Boehly chucked all the money in out of his own pocket?
 


What's that all about? Could Jim do the same whith our debt?

No. United owes it debts to banks, not to Ratcliffe. In case of Nottingham Marinakis formally injected money as a loan and now converted that into shares. Technically Ratcliffe's latest cash injection worked the same way, just directly, not without being a loan first.
 
No. United owes it debts to banks, not to Ratcliffe. In case of Nottingham Marinakis formally injected money as a loan and now converted that into shares. Technically Ratcliffe's latest cash injection worked the same way, just directly, not without being a loan first.
Ah, I see. Thanks
 
Yes I can see it now. A phoenix on the badge on place of the (controversial and divisive) devil emblem. Call the new club FC United Manchester…. Oh wait.
Have two of them on the badge and bigger. More importantly they hv to be all in gold because it will attract the type of overlords who can afford by then
 
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Seems Sir Rat may have pulled a fast one

:lol:

I wonder what his game is then? He’s got all these plans for a new stadium etc but it could mean nothing if another bidder comes in this summer and agrees a deal with the Glazers.


I think it’s pretty obvious at this point that he’s played fans like a fiddle. The Glazers were happy to keep majority ownership, get a payout and for the club to have an injection of cash. They were delighted when Ratcliffe said he’d be the big bad wolf that cuts staff and “wasteful spending” and in return Ratcliffe gets to pretend he’s the owner of one of the biggest clubs in the world for £1.5bn.

He’ll no doubt get outside investment, government handouts and sell naming rights to the new stadium and his investment will start to look pretty rosy.
 
:lol:

I wonder what his game is then? He’s got all these plans for a new stadium etc but it could mean nothing if another bidder comes in this summer and agrees a deal with the Glazers.


I think it’s pretty obvious at this point that he’s played fans like a fiddle. The Glazers were happy to keep majority ownership, get a payout and for the club to have an injection of cash. They were delighted when Ratcliffe said he’d be the big bad wolf that cuts staff and “wasteful spending” and in return Ratcliffe gets to pretend he’s the owner of one of the biggest clubs in the world for £1.5bn.

He’ll no doubt get outside investment, government handouts and sell naming rights to the new stadium and his investment will start to look pretty rosy.

I’m sure @Plant0x84 will be along any second to explain why this is actually great and just part of the master plan.
 


Seems Sir Rat may have pulled a fast one


That's a massive red flag, the middle eastern ownership would have been better for the long term model of the club, the moral issues are perfectly valid but INEOS have come across poorly given their strategy and implementation.

This topic alone if backed with more credibility is worthy of a thread in itself.
 


Seems Sir Rat may have pulled a fast one

No for 'now'. Not on the 'current' agenda.

If that is all there is to the quotes, they don't tell us anything we didn't already know. If he couldn't buy the entire club 12 months ago it's obviously not going to happen in the near future. I'd be very surprised if it's any sooner than 3 or 4 years away, and quite likely longer (if it does happen, which I think is likely but not guaranteed).
 
That's a massive red flag, the middle eastern ownership would have been better for the long term model of the club, the moral issues are perfectly valid but INEOS have come across poorly given their strategy and implementation.

This topic alone if backed with more credibility is worthy of a thread in itself.
Would it?

What evidence is there that they would have been better? What evidence is there that they were even that interested in buying the club?
 
So basically we've been lied to. When he was only getting a minority stake securing the glazers future as United majority ownership the narrative being pushed that it was to get the foot in the door and in the relative near future the glazers would be bought out fully. If I remember correctly, it was by 2026.

While the glazers are part of the equation, united will never progress and I'll continue my boycott on buying United merchandise.
 
No for 'now'. Not on the 'current' agenda.

If that is all there is to the quotes, they don't tell us anything we didn't already know. If he couldn't buy the entire club 12 months ago it's obviously not going to happen in the near future. I'd be very surprised if it's any sooner than 3 or 4 years away, and quite likely longer (if it does happen, which I think is likely but not guaranteed).
He cannot say anything for legal reasons...

do people not understand? We are publicly listed and there are serious repercussions if he says anything. the first notice will go directly to the shareholders. Please do some research and see how Elon Musk almost got in trouble when he said he was taking Tesla private at $420.

As I said, he will own the full club in due course.

Majority takeover on the cards in 2025.
 
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You gotta admire how the Glazers played a blinder here. They managed to keep being paid for the privilege of owning Manchester United (a club they weren't rich enough to buy), the club they saddled with crippling debt which then chose not to clear out for 20 years. When they thought it was all over, a new investor who will do all the hard work allowed them to kick the can down the road for a few years more. When the situation for the club will be more serious of course.

If Ratcliffe succeeds, the Glazers won't be in any hurry to sell. The buyout scenario is only likely with him failing and then doubling down. The other possibilities look grim.
 
You gotta admire how the Glazers played a blinder here. They managed to keep being paid for the privilege of owning Manchester United (a club they weren't rich enough to buy), the club they saddled with crippling debt which then chose not to clear out for 20 years. When they thought it was all over, a new investor who will do all the hard work allowed them to kick the can down the road for a few years more. When the situation for the club will be more serious of course.

If Ratcliffe succeeds, the Glazers won't be in any hurry to sell. The buyout scenario is only likely with him failing and then doubling down. The other possibilities look grim.
Just to add, Ratcliffe basically paid them dividends up front. Debt is still there.
 
That's a massive red flag, the middle eastern ownership would have been better for the long term model of the club, the moral issues are perfectly valid but INEOS have come across poorly given their strategy and implementation.

This topic alone if backed with more credibility is worthy of a thread in itself.
What middle eastern takeover, there wasn't any - just a random bloke trying to BS everyone that he had money, but never was able to back it up and nobody has ever seen him even. Might have just been made up.
 
Thanks for the explanation.
In theory could they both agree to pay an amount, say 150m each to reduce it or isn't that allowed under psr or any other restrictions?
I understand that Chelsea have some magical way of selling their unwanted players but how are they able to spend a billion? Is it just down to sales or has Boehly chucked all the money in out of his own pocket?
They can do what they want and paying down the debt is not PSR restricted. What I am saying is they are not going to do that and even if they did (pay down some or all of the the debt), their approach would be different to what you describe.
PSR and FPP have 3 big player related items: player amortization, salaries, and, and profit on player disposal. If you buy a big bunch of new players (medium salaries) on really long term contracts, and sell some highly paid players (near the end of their contracts), you could get to a PSR\FPP neutral position, if the profit on player disposal is roughly equal to new player amortization plus overall salary increase.
Chelsea have been very good at profiting from player disposal while ensuring that salaries are kept in check.
Even so, they are struggling to remain within the permissible loss limit (and indeed had to engage in some dodgy hotel self dealing recently to get across the PSR line, a dodge prohibited under FPP)
And the Amortization trick (spreading the cost of new payers over really long contracts) has been closed.
Any club running at the permissible loss limit is making even bigger losses in the real world and will need to be propped up by its owner. As I said earlier PSR and FPP overstate real profitability and cash availability.
The Chelsea project is held together by a big pile of duct tape, a whole lot of jasus-we-got-lucky-there, and a lot of holy-marys.
 
So basically we've been lied to. When he was only getting a minority stake securing the glazers future as United majority ownership the narrative being pushed that it was to get the foot in the door and in the relative near future the glazers would be bought out fully. If I remember correctly, it was by 2026.

While the glazers are part of the equation, united will never progress and I'll continue my boycott on buying United merchandise.
In truth, you were lied to by your own expectations.
There is nothing, and I mean nothing, in the governance agreement, that suggests JR was angling for complete control.
 
In truth, you were lied to by your own expectations.
There is nothing, and I mean nothing, in the governance agreement, that suggests JR was angling for complete control.
You clearly didn't read the SEC documents and history of the deal.

I'll come back to this end of December 2025 when he has a larger shareholding ;)
 
You clearly didn't read the SEC documents and history of the deal.

I'll come back to this end of December 2025 when he has a larger shareholding ;)
Funnily enough I did. And I guess I was the only one to do that.
Not trying to be smart or anything but logically a guy owning a larger shareholding in Dec 2025 is still not a guy in full control.
 
They can do what they want and paying down the debt is not PSR restricted. What I am saying is they are not going to do that and even if they did (pay down some or all of the the debt), their approach would be different to what you describe.
PSR and FPP have 3 big player related items: player amortization, salaries, and, and profit on player disposal. If you buy a big bunch of new players (medium salaries) on really long term contracts, and sell some highly paid players (near the end of their contracts), you could get to a PSR\FPP neutral position, if the profit on player disposal is roughly equal to new player amortization plus overall salary increase.
Chelsea have been very good at profiting from player disposal while ensuring that salaries are kept in check.
Even so, they are struggling to remain within the permissible loss limit (and indeed had to engage in some dodgy hotel self dealing recently to get across the PSR line, a dodge prohibited under FPP)
And the Amortization trick (spreading the cost of new payers over really long contracts) has been closed.
Any club running at the permissible loss limit is making even bigger losses in the real world and will need to be propped up by its owner. As I said earlier PSR and FPP overstate real profitability and cash availability.
The Chelsea project is held together by a big pile of duct tape, a whole lot of jasus-we-got-lucky-there, and a lot of holy-marys.
Thank you for taking your time to explain.
 
I would be interested hear the argurments as to why the Glazers would have inserted the 18 month timeframe for Ineos to buy the rest of their shares or risk them selling elsewhere, if they didn't have any intention of enforcing it.