Club ownership | Senior management team talk
- Thread starter golden_blunder
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Anyone must be barmy if they long for the Glazer running the football side days.
Yeah, I know that. I’d have lost many a job if I’d been less diplomatic with my bosses!
You’d like to think he’s intelligent and experienced enough himself to avoid this kind of seemingly negative commentary though whether it be the women’s team, the ticket prices or whatever.
The women’s team should be a feel good story with all that’s been achieved in a few short years and yet a lot of the press is poor because it’s obvious that the men’s team is the priority but that doesn’t mean the message has to be so blunt!
He’s starting to sound like Joe Kinnear at this point
Fulham is a stupid example as its an affluent part of London where the cost of living is way higher than northern England. there was a graph posted here showing Fulhams season ticket prices dwarfing everyone in the league, including Arsenal and Spurs. Ratcliffe using Fulham was a weasly excuse as it applies to every team in the league
You’re kidding yourself if you think those signings have “worked out” Zirkzee has been dreadful and the rest (excluding Yoro) have been okay, they’ve not been terrible but at no point have I thought any of them are a big improvement on what we had.
We are talking about Manchester United here, Wan Bissaka looks better at West Ham than he ever did at United and his performances this season have eclipsed that of Mazraoui. De Ligt looks average, Ugarte is no better than McTominay (he’s flying at Napoli)
Wound any of those signings get into Liverpool or Arsenals team ? I doubt they’d make the 18 . . .
How are they not true, the are factually so . . .
I run a £200m business, I know a thing or two about out it. Plus you are wrong, SJR DID ask for taxpayers money to rebuild OT, not just regenerate the local area. It’s here in this article, just read it and take off your rose tinted glasses before you do
https://www.manchestereveningnews.c...estion-government-reaction-could-28687716.amp
5 and 6 are demonstrably true, 4 is opinion but pretty accurate I think
Ratcliff is such an asshole. I accept that he wants us to be financially lean, but cutting costs on really really small stuff just shows how much of a complete asshole he is. He already made poor decisions that cost us millions, then sits in his Monaco mansion and thinks we won't win anything again if we spend money on a fecking Christmas party.
Ratcliffe making some very unpopular decisions though.
And then there’s the Glazer family who saddled the club with debt for the privilege of having them as owners and effectively asset striped the club year on year. Slightly silly comparison.
I think you will find the majority of fans crying about the “facilities” and wanting a new stadium are the type of fans whose idea of a “match day” is turning the tv on and off. We are clearly very far apart on this, if you don’t see the difference between Fulham and Manchester that is clearly on you.
Who’s comparing them?
Yep
I think Ratcliffe and Brailsford need to step back. Give the brief to Berrada, check in at the end of the year. Let the football people handle stuff. They’ve put in a team, there’s really no need for them to be regularly at Carrington.
@vanderpants Did you get your £40 M&S voucher?
Untrue, they're all wrong.
I like what I hear from Ratcliffe one day, and then dislike it the next.
He says firing Ten Hag isn’t his call, so instead fires the guy who decided not to fire Ten Hag, after he’s fired Ten Hag. It’s all very weird.
Again, regarding Ten Hag, I'm convinced there was never a concrete plan to sack him. Ratcliffe/Ashworth maybe explored other options but once there wasn't any obvious standouts, he was always staying.
What is interesting is that it seems to be everyone other than Ashworth that wanted Amorim. The day he was announced probably was the beginning of the end for him.
I agree with your second paragraph, but personally I think they were ready to Van Gaal him as soon as the final whistle went. Him actually winning forced them to rethink their plans.
If that's true it's deeply worrying that they would make such a decision based on a single match. Remember was sacked regardless of winning. So the current board did chicken out where Woodward stood by his decision. Whenever I have to mention that Woodward with all his incompetence made better and more decisive calls it worries me...
No chance, he’d be worried he would walk in on Berrada trying to shove his arse in the photocopier at the Christmas party.
Yeah, I know that. I’d have lost many a job if I’d been less diplomatic with my bosses!
You’d like to think he’s intelligent and experienced enough himself to avoid this kind of seemingly negative commentary though whether it be the women’s team, the ticket prices or whatever.
The women’s team should be a feel good story with all that’s been achieved in a few short years and yet a lot of the press is poor because it’s obvious that the men’s team is the priority but that doesn’t mean the message has to be so blunt!
Self-made guys are so used to getting things done his way, and you don't blame him since he was successful with this approach.
The sad thing is that I suspect that it would be quite a toxic atmosphere within United when the one guy/owner holds so much influence.
The rest of the upper management will be looking for ways to curry favours or fight over the little turf that they have responsibilities over. The only way to avoid this is for an enlightened billionaire to implement a more 'corporate' structure with a defined organisational structure, including clear responsibilities and expected outcomes. Something that I suspect an operations guy like Ashworth was trying to implement.
But was fighting against a more cowboy, loose corporate/constellation structure that is INEOS and how Ratcliffe normally 'runs' his franchised entities.
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It's quite clear now that they did indeed make that decision based on a single game. Once season resumed and we went back to our former level, they pulled the trigger relatively quickly. Thing is, anybody could have anticipated that our season would pan out this way, there was no world in which ten Hag was going to go into this season and have us play well.
You must just be trolling. . . How did he not waste millions on Dan Ashworth
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At least the caf seems to be united in our dislike of Brailsford, regardless of all the other narratives swirling around.
Reckon if we had a Yes/No poll for 'should Brailsford have any influence at United', it might be the most unanimous ever seen on here.
Reckon if we had a Yes/No poll for 'should Brailsford have any influence at United', it might be the most unanimous ever seen on here.
The owner should never step back. You need someone from the outside with real power who can point at the bloody obvious before things degenerate to the ridiculous. The Glazers are notorious for being detached and indecisive which lead to this mess in the first place.
Things are very different with Brailsford. There's only one thing worse to a moron with power ie a moron with power who thinks he's a genius.
No I'm not, but he's going to be super critical about spending money if he doesn't feel it's needed. I think he'll not want to spend big if he doesn't really has to.
I dont have an issue with Sir Jim. He seems like a man in a hurry and without change there is no change.
The only thing I disagree with is the christmas party. Everything else is fine by me.
Employees - The club was probably bloated, we shouldnt have people working at the club if they are not needed.
Backroom staff - fair enough, there is some trial and error. Im impressed by his ruthlessness to get things right and make the right decisions rather than worry about optics
Players up for sale - very few of the current squad are worth keeping. No issues
Ticket prices - Shame it has to be like that, but united tickets are way cheaper than our rivals. It couldnt last if we want to compete for the best players.
Stadium - Great that a new state of the art stadium is in the pipeline
PSR - Dont mind selling Garnacho and Rashford to enable investment in squad
You cannot be Britains richest man after being born into a working class family and not be competent.
The only thing I disagree with is the christmas party. Everything else is fine by me.
Employees - The club was probably bloated, we shouldnt have people working at the club if they are not needed.
Backroom staff - fair enough, there is some trial and error. Im impressed by his ruthlessness to get things right and make the right decisions rather than worry about optics
Players up for sale - very few of the current squad are worth keeping. No issues
Ticket prices - Shame it has to be like that, but united tickets are way cheaper than our rivals. It couldnt last if we want to compete for the best players.
Stadium - Great that a new state of the art stadium is in the pipeline
PSR - Dont mind selling Garnacho and Rashford to enable investment in squad
You cannot be Britains richest man after being born into a working class family and not be competent.
Thank you.
I disagree. Look at City or even Newcastle. Even Roman after a few years became more hands off.
I might be wrong. But if taken at face value some of the articles about Ratcliffe are portraying him more as a President type owner. Now I don’t mind within reason. I think if United become successful again having him to play the games against team like Real Madrid if/when they try to talk about our players would be great.
Honestly. I’ve watched a few of Ashworth’s interviews about his role at Brighton & Newcastle that & some of the stuff getting leaked makes me think Ashworth leaving was less about managers and a factor of several things.
1) used to be sole person running the club.
2) not used to liaising multiple people
3) Used to owners who give a brief eg “play attractive football, keep us in the top 10, operate within x budget, buy players with resale”
4) Working without constant owner involvement or having to get approval for things that are within his brief.
Not blaming Ashworth not working out on Ratcliffe or Ashworth. Just a factor of the above 4 things and no compromise could be found or no one was willing to sacrifice their way.
If disengagement is what makes club owners great then under the Glazers we should be winning trebles every 2 years. We had a situation where silly contracts were being dished out, players at the end of careers were being bought for hilarious fees and the club was hiring left right and center at a time when we were losing money without the owners noticing. There was numerous reports of how United lost good talent and transfers were being delayed for weeks because in typical Glazers fashion they hesitated believing that the problem would just go away. At one point during the takeover, SJR had to threaten them by saying that they either ratify the deal by the end of the month or else he would walk out.
What owners usually do is to discuss the aims with their subordinates and then take the foot off the pedal when things are going well. That wasn't happening at United in certain sections of the club (the most important btw). Manchester United agreed on cost cutting and the increase in revenue which made sense in a club that was losing money. The club went on sacking the average joe, they cancelled Christmas parties, they increased ticket prices and they even cut SAF off the books and yet, in terms of the first team we hesitated. ETH was kept way past his time (with a contract extension), We panicked on Bruno and offered him a new contract on silly salary and we didn't sell enough deadwood. It makes zero sense to sack 5 Manchester United fans from the megastore whose on minimum wage only to keep a 300k a week player who spends most of the game jogging on the pitch and begging local journalists to make him look good PR wise . Do you expect the owner not to intervene on that? After all he's the one being portrayed as a Disney villain because of it.
There are things that I criticize SJR on. One of which is Brailsford involvement. That's seem to have fount a consensus among every single United fan including the staunchest INEOS fans (ex Roades of the Muppeteers). Having said that owners should keep the club accountable. That's the owner's job. Think how better off we would have been if the Glazers stepped in and sacked Woodward after that silly 'we are like Disney' comment!
Is he in charge of the transfer budget aswell...
I think Ratcliffe is taking the Machiavellian approach to running the club. In his political treatise "The Prince", Machiavelli famously argued that in order to be a respected leader, a new ruler must be perceived as incredibly harsh, and must be feared.
This in-turn benefits his subjects, because after an initial "shock and awe" period, there should be a period of stability, as coups and general crime are severely punished which discourages further unruly behaviour.
Longer term, the ruler can start to show more leniency - as his reputation now proceeds him, he no longer risks being seen as a soft touch, his territory is stable and his subjects are happy.
We have heard SJR talk about "dumb money", about a culture of mediocrity etc...I think his goal, in cancelling staff parties, making staff redundant, calling people back into the office, "sacking" SAF etc...is to say "the gravy train is over"...this club is no longer a soft-touch run on sentiment and emotion. It's a business AND it's an elite sports team.
SJR is a very smart man. He's a self-made billionaire. He's not some idiot who "borrowed" £100m from his father and bankrupted just about every business he ever started. He's not some Eton-educated Trust-fund idiot. He made his money through savvy business deals and ruthless decisions. He knows that taking £60 off staff and cancelling a party has no impact whatsoever on the clubs finances and he also knows it will be unpopular...so why do it?
Think about it...we're talking about PSR...but reducing staff bonuses from £100 to £40 does nothing. It doesn't even register. Even removing SAF, for example, only saves £2m per annum. That's less than two months salary for Marcus Rashford.
We saw over the Summer that the club raised more in transfer funds than it ever has before. We saw McTominay leave after being with the club from the age of 6. We saw players released on free transfers. Hangers-on like DvdB moved on for effectively nothing. Rashford will be next, his card is marked. No way on God's green Earth SJR continues to hand him £325K of his hard-earned cash every week.
I honestly believe it's all about setting new standards. Rule with an iron fist, send a message. In time, we'll see this change, I an sure...once the club starts to win again and SJR and his team are satisfied the "cultural reset" is complete, I don't think we'll read stories about staff losing £60 at Christmas.
At the moment, we're all feeling it. Staff have lost bonuses or been made redundant. Fans have seen ticket prices increase. Players have been let go or face uncertain futures. The executive team is not safe, as we saw with Ashworth, nor was SAF.
Pardon my ignorance but something that I'm curious about. SJR is obviously getting all the blame at the minute for all the negative publicity from cancelling parties, reducing bonuses etc, but is all this not Berrada's job as CEO? Not seeing anyone mentioning him. Is it just that the media get more engagement/clicks via SJR?
I get all of that but ffs start with the players first
Not so easy though is it, because the players are tied into long term contracts which can't easily just be torn up.
I am very confident the free ride is over for the players too, we have already seen the club is no longer afraid to take huge losses on transfer fees to shift players on - and is far more careful about what it will spend on players and their wages.
I do know, by the way, that these are real people and real people we are talking about so we shouldn't underestimate the impact it has on them...but given INEOS have made so many redundancies...you have to ask...what where most of these folks doing day-to-day?
Huge difference between setting goals and standing back and doing what the glazers did which is pretty much setting only money objectives and then not caring. Which led to people like Woodward, Arnold, Murtough etc running football things years and even a decade without being taken out the role.
What you would expect is for goals:vision to be set, once the team is in place INEOS stand back then assess progress every 6 months, year, and most likely after 2 seasons you would expect heads roll even if everyone is getting on well and smiling but goals have not been met.
I definitely think that there was an element of that involved
Not that big shoes tbf.