Not even the tweet says that United's data team used fbref. It sounds more like a journalist heard about it and looked on fbref himself to look at what publicly available data exist.
Club ownership | Senior management team talk
- Thread starter golden_blunder
- Start date
I checked yesterday's article about United's data science department and there is nothing relevant to it there, but it does sound like it could potentially come from before Hojlund's signing and I obviously won't be checking that. The smart money would be on pure bullshit ragebait though.
He had full access to Man Utd books, so yes. That’s why I’m saying he’s taking United fans for mugs with his comments, and quite frankly many are proving to be.
Am I INEOS or SJR to tell you why they overpaid for the club? They all got to look at the books, which is why they probably only bought a share of the club rather than the whole club.
You do realise most businesses run on debt? Its called good debt. There is nowhere that shows that INEOS are close to bankruptcy because of their debt.
Whether you trust them or not is your opinion, I cannot tell you what to do but you are very
Can you show me evidence that they are trying to weasel out of sponsorship because they cant afford it. The key word.. afford, or are you assuming and making that up?
Nice are 3rd in the French league. To say INEOS are not successful in any of their ventures is clearly not knowing... go have a look at how much INEOS make.
You have to admit we have zero reason to trust INEOS at this point
Ok. Where were the other options when Ratcliffe invested in the club?
You don't have to trust them in any way to dislike people manufacturing stuff in order to get more angry at INEOS and let leeches off the hook.
You don't need to manufacture anything to be angry at INEOS who have not come through on the promises they made pre taking sporting control
Anything the glazers preferred was always going to be poisonous for this club. They can't get anything right. It seems like this is just the latest example of them failing upwards financially but doing untold damage to the asset and the brand. They are vultures who sold the soul of the club for a few quid.
OKay what promises have they made that they haven't come through?
Did you actually think that they will make us title and CL contenders in less than 12 months?
I believe there are many good reasons to trust INEOS at this point.
Agree but that'd be 20-30% tops from gross pay and even £60k is on the higher end for a regular operational job. I wonder if £45m is inclusive of wage reductions for footballing staff as well? We let go of a number of players around the same time and replaced them with players on lower wages.
I'm not surprised but I chose a higher figure for benefit of the doubt.
Zero investment from INEOS themselves directly to help with transfer budget and PSR (there is specific things owners can do with respect to PSR which is why the PSR excuse doesn't wash for United). I think this is a broken promise given that the whole premise of them taking over football operations was to have control over where their additionally invested funds would be spent with respect to the first team squad, especially.
Granted they did spend 50m on Carrington in the summer and they have invested £250m overall on infrastructure (which was part of the initial deal).
Promise to listen to fans and put fans first, then going ahead and raising ticket prices mid season.
I'll ignore it. You are either on the wind-up, or you don't realise how condescending the question is.
Please share your reasons for trusting INEOS, maybe you are right maybe you are wrong.
Do you have to be to be able to assert whether overpaying for something when you aren’t in a great financial position is a worrying sign of competence. What is it about the job they are currently doing that makes you think they are competent?
Maybe I should pretend that this thing that walks like a duck and quacks like a duck is actually something else.
Nice also finished 2nd last in the Europa League.
Did I say INEOS haven’t been successful at anything? The blind faith some of you have in these people is astonishing.
I'm less worried about the Kitchen and more worried about Brailsford's frequent trips to the Chemist and loss of laptops at critical moments.
By what mechanism are INEOS supposed to give that money to the club? Issuing any additional shares needs to be agreed with the Glazers and without it, it just means giving money to the club, just for Glazers to up the asking price later on.
Those specific things regarding PSR are almost universally just a mechanism for spending now by limiting your spending in the future. A club with no cash and making losses of 100 million a year in the last few years is an extremely rough situation regardless of PSR and the only clubs that can handle something like this on the regular basis are the ones that have a nation-state backing them. That was the *possible* scenario only within the Qatari takeover and you have to ignore a million other problems coming with that and how plausible it was in the first place.
True, a ton of criticism is fully justified. Which is why I'm being so pedantic about so much focus on stuff that was never going to happen. Complaining about an owner because they gave "only 300 million initially" and only massively overspent to even be in a position to pay this I just find weird.
I don't know much about cycling, but it sounds like INEOS started performing worse once Brailsford stopped going to the "chemist".
This is the issue I have not related to this thread particularly but in general with the fan base, the absence of any form of critical thinking due to sentimentality and a lack of rationale.
Remember the forums during the recent summer window, the overall consensus was that the managerial market was atrocious no options to replace a discombobulated Ten Hag. Few months later Ruben has come in and is primarily being absolved of any accountability with some poor performances.
No one signified Amorim as an outstanding replacement in summer, the purpose of this post isn't to shun his credentials as a coach but there's this weird obsession with fans that whenever an individual becomes an employee to the club they are always some type of exception to the rule.
Back to the subject matter, INEOS don't have deep enough pockets to exalt United out of the very deep hole the Glazers threw the club into. It's a unique situation which requires a specific set of circumstances for a solution to be found.
The debt is subject to its term of interest which will be refinanced and the club is making a loss, this means Manchester United needed and still require external excess capital to be invested well over the purported figure that has already been invested by SJR.
The optics are simple, United needed and still require a majority stake sale. INEOS have given themselves a headache with their involvement by pro longing the Glazers stay. There is no credible information in the public regarding them increasing the share totals.
Subjectively for me it would be totally permissable if INEOS acquired full ownership to then ensue cuts and restrictions because the clubs long term responsibility would be subject to their own liability. But, as it stands I cannot see any other scenario other than the club being back up for sale within five years time and SJR making a profit on his initial investment with the projected incremental increase in the clubs value.
Baring in mind this is all without any contemplation of the stadiums redevelopment, because clubs who have been healthy having encountered massive restrictions in operational capacities when building a new stadium, Tottenham spring to mind being financially halted in the markets during Poch's run which could have seen them earn silverware if he was adequately backed.
Now imagine United with it's current state of financial actually undergoing a stadium redevelopment through a debt facility
it will cripple the club even further.Irrespective if fans like it or not United is being forced into middle eastern ownership because it's either that or a ridiculous consortium that will need to fund over a billion worth of capital into the club without requiring the clubs assets to somehow refinance the capital.
It's not just a club sale it's more like an insurance category S that needs major repairs before being deemed road worthy. A disaster.
Funny you mention that, because I remember the same sentiment being shown here at various times when Berrada, Wilcox, and Ashworth (among others) were announced or rumored to be joining - it was just assumed by most that they all represented "best-in-class" appointments.
Why do you think investment has to come only in the form of transfer budget? I mean we spent close to 200m in the summer. Hasn’t the last 10 years taught us anything? Spending on transfers is not the answer to the problem, we have spent more than most clubs with nothing to show for it. PSR is not an excuse, it’s a real thing, which is why clubs like Newcastle, Villa, Forrest who have super rich owners cannot spend owners money on transfers. But ofcourse you know more than football clubs on how PSR works.
Can you show me a quote or this promise that they said they will spend x amount on transfers? Because the one thing I saw SJR talk about was, its nothing to do with it. He broke down how much Real Madrid spend and how much we have spent, showing its not all about how much you spend in the transfer window.
So you were not aware of the 80m cash injection in December?
Yes, I agree they have broken that promise but breaking 1 promise = breaking all of them is it?
No, I mean you said about promises but have listed 1. Is that the only promise they made? If so then its fine, or is it the only one you chose to suit your agenda?
I can trust them more than the Glazers. Well the reasons are as follows: For the last 5/6 years we have been crying out for a structure, footballing structure with footballing personnel… first thing INEOS did was to get rid of bankers and got footballing people in Berrada, Wilcox, Vivell etc… We have cried out for improvement in our infrastructure, what do they do? Invest in Carrington. Our stadium has issues.. what do they do, have a task force to get new stadium plans underway.
I can see from your post, you don’t care about all of that and are only concerned about how much millions can we spend in the window but again, SJR clearly said, its not about buying Mbappe, its about finding the next Mbappe, which is why I am curious to see where this promise about transfer fee is coming from.
They have changed the way we buy / sell players, we made the most we have in years from selling players in the summer 100m odd, we have also changed the way we buy, previously we would have spent 80m on Branthwaite, instead we get De Ligt for 40m. Instead of getting De Ligt on 300k a week, we got him for 180k a week.
Have they made mistakes? Yes, SJR has admitted to making mistakes, you cannot expect them to get everything right.
Did I say this? No
PSR is an excuse when owner investment at United is in the lower 25th percentile in the PL. If you want to understand why PSR is an excuse read Swedish Ramble.
I referenced this in my post its included in the 245m injected in for infrastructure to date.
This makes zero sense by the way I don’t trust them because they have given absolutely zero reason for me to do so. And they have broken at least 1 promise (I think its actually 2) In that case I don’t have reason to believe they will follow through kn the rest. Maybe they will, maybe they won’t, but I won’t say I trust they will given I have zero reason to do so.
Clutching at straws, given the money we spent on Yoro. Also given previous summers have seen us do and say similar things. For example Dan James, Hojlunds wages etc.
Fair enough I can too, doesn’t mean I trust them. Agreed on football structure lets hope better decisions on this are made going forward.
Its seem quite obvious to me that you only intend to throw insults, start fights and not actually enage in discussion. I have not said anything of the sort of what you suggested in your post. I simply pointed out promises not kept, to be honest though yaking prices mid season for match going fans is worst than a Glazer move but we digress.
You did though, said 0 transfer cash.. whilst they have given cash injections to the club which helped us make some signings in the summer. The other point is, INEOS only own 27% of the club, not the whole club. The Glazers are the bigger problem, INEOS have shown they will invest... the Glazers on the other hand... Why should INEOS put 200m in transfer when they dont own the club? They would rather make sensible business decision by cutting costs and getting the club to be run more efficiently, meaning a more sustainable club.
So you agree there is investement. 245m in 12 months?
Okay, I agree they broke the promise, but you they have not come through on their promises... so what are all the other promises they haven't come through with?
We bought Hojlund for 64m +8m... I dont think he is the best example to use whereas Yoro was 52m all in including 6m in add ons. Its not clutching at straws actually, because you can name 1 transfer in Dan James... so does that include Antony, Maguire, Mount... the list can go on and on.
That's my point, I have reasons to trust them, some fans just label them with the Glazers when they aren't the same. They are trying, when you are trying to fix something that is really bad, sometimes you make mistakes. The issue is the fans will stick to the mistake as the reason not to trust them, ignoring everything else.
Like I will give you an example, numerous people on here have talked about "if we sacked Ten Hag in the summer, we would have saved money". Whenever I ask, was it free to sack Ten Hag 6 months earlier, I get no replies.. I wonder why.
Right, if you think they are worse than the glazers, that is your opinion. I dont think they are worse than the glazers, considering all the things they have been doing. For one, they have invested in the club, something that cannot be said about the Glazers, instead they have stolen from the club.