Club Ownership | INEOS responsible for the football side

[Solius]

These people work for Manchester United, not the other way round. The club pay their wages and it’s reasonable for the club to expect certain standards - if one of those is working in the office not at home then so be it.
With specific reference to the emails thing, it was another part of INEOS’s business where a distinct drop in email traffic on a Friday highlighted people taking the mickey with WFH. Whilst that doesn’t necessary reflect what’s going on with Utd staff, it’s not unreasonable to expect them to fall inline with INEOS working practises now they are running the club.

It isn't if it's in their contracts that they can WFH. Ripping that up and giving them a few days notice is bollocks imo but agree to disagree.

 

[Yakuza_devils]

SJR is not laying people off, he is merely asking people to go back to work in office. They are paying full salary and benefits. What's wrong? Unless you specifically signed a contract stipulated that you are purely WFH employee and agreed in black and white.

 

[doubleohseven]

SJR is not laying people off, he is merely asking people to go back to work in office. They are paying full salary and benefits. What's wrong? Unless you specifically signed a contract stipulated that you are purely WFH employee and agreed in black and white.

The problem here is Ratcliffe banning a working practice for ideological, rather than practical, reasons.

Employee's salary will now be denuded with transportation, childcare and other costs, all so the boss can announce themselves as the boss - as he himself continues to work from home. I doubt there will be any salary increases to mitigate circumstances, either.

 

[decorativeed]

I don’t think so. There was the old way, and now the new way. As Sir Jim has said if you aren’t onboard with the new way you are free to final alternative employment. There is no room for sentiment here, it’s just business.

Of course they are trapped in the middle there, as most of them will have been reassured that their roles were not going to be affected by the guy coming in to revamp the football side of the business. Staff in the museum, shopping, catering and IT departments now won't know what's going on and who's in charge.

And I know plenty of people who were glad to leave the club but couldn't get out fast enough due to the toxic culture there. But they soon found that while 10 years ago, having United on your CV was impressive to prospective employers, recently it's become an albatross around your neck - especially now when the new owners are coming in and suggesting the whole workforce are lazy, uncommitted and messy.

 

[decorativeed]

SJR is not laying people off, he is merely asking people to go back to work in office. They are paying full salary and benefits. What's wrong? Unless you specifically signed a contract stipulated that you are purely WFH employee and agreed in black and white.

The use of the word 'Benefits' show you haven't a clue what it's actually like working for United. There aren't any.

 

[Posh Red]

The use of the word 'Benefits' show you haven't a clue what it's actually like working for United. There aren't any.

So they don’t provide any pension or sick pay?

Edit: I just checked GlassDoor and the comments are all really favourable about the benefits package. Good pension, free lunch, discounts with partners etc

 

[Mr Pigeon]

Cuckoo isn’t it. Poor wet wipe wants to work fwrom home :’(

*Record scratches* "Yeah, this is me. You're probably wondering how I got myself into this mess..."

 

[decorativeed]

So they don’t provide any pension or sick pay?

Edit: I just checked GlassDoor and the comments are all really favourable about the benefits package. Good pension, free lunch, discounts with partners etc

All UK companies have to offer a pension scheme that all employees are enrolled in by default. The United one is no better or worse than anywhere else I've worked.

Free lunch admittedly sounds like a good benefit, but come back and tell me that once you've eaten it! I quickly learned to give it a swerve and bring my own or go to the Tesco around the corner! It's honestly the only place I've ever known to include swede in pasta, chilli and stir-frys!

I'm sure it's just a coincidence that it is the cheapest available vegetable!

 

[Member 117152]

This is exactly what needs to be said by the fans, just because Ineos spent £1.4billion to buy 27.7% of the club and started with a whirlwind of PR;

Sir Jim said the following;
1. He wants to be at the top of football pyramid in 3 years! (Deluded beyond Question!)
2. He said the Club should have a new stadium that is the Wembley of the North and the club should be able to tap into the levelling up Fund. (More Delusion!)
3. He said just before he was rubber stamped on 20th February that the club was improving already and he was right the form from Xmas Eve to February 18th was very good and then it plummeted! (wonder why, maybe not improving the squad in January had something to do with that!)
4. He said Newcastle were not acting like gentleman with regard to Dan Ashworth in the same way City did allowing Omar Berada to join United.(What did he expect, then to roll over and just hand him over free)
5. He said the club would change the infrastructure and then the decide a style of play and the manager/Head coach would have to implement that.(You need 25/26 fit players to do that, why not look at the real reason for the injuries)
6. He said that most of 1100 employed that work from home would now have into work and if they didn’t like that seek alternative employment.(Harsh but maybe he’s right!)
7. He said that on a recent visit, he found the tidiness of the club offices, changing rooms were disgraceful. (Could have been handled more in house!)

The awards ceremony which are suppose to encompass all teams not just the Men’s would be cancelled so the team could concentrate on wining the FA CUP.

However the under 18’s youth team
have won a domestic treble, the Ladies team won their first piece of major silverware since being founded in 2018 and to brazenly just discard this because the men’s team have stunk the place out shows you how detached Sir Jim and his merrry men may be!

So like you I’m not quite sold on INEOS right now, we all know you have to crack a few eggs to make an omelette but the clear detachment from the real world doesn’t bode well going forward and let me be clear here, Nice are currently 5th, last year they were 9th, the year before 5th, the year before that 9th, the very definition of a yo yo club!

Man United could still finish 9th this year however coming 5th next year with competent English Clubs in Europe should mean that we are back in the CL. If he thinks this is success with United, he needs to pack up and leave now?

Sir Jim needs a huge summer transfer window, and he needs sure things not maybe players who might come good, he needs players that seamlessly fit in, the delay at appointing Ashworth is not a great start just like our form plummeting since the David and Jim motivational Roadshow started at the end of February.

Talk is Cheap, let’s see how ambitious you really are Sir Jim because at any point if you wanted to inject another £200m of your money to rebuild the squad, now the time to do it, with no anchoring EPL rule to 25/26 and no premise of European qualification so UEFA 80%FSP rule would not apply to United, in the same way as it didn’t to Chelsea would allow the club to spend £300-350m this summer, but we all know that’s not going to happen as he has perfect excuse that the club tried that and did it wrongly which is why our way is right!

How is it deluded to say Old Trafford can be the Wembley up north? We were in the 00’s and can be again.

End of the day we are just about the most famous club in the history of the game so yes we are up there with Wembley or anyone else for that matter if we have the best stadium in the country.

The north needs infrastructure. The more the merrier sometimes at the taxpayers expense I might add. Tory’s have given London everything the past 15 years using the same pot and done sod all “levelling up” they promised.

Look at the city centres in the north these days compared to 20 years ago. I don’t see much levelling up when most of them are full of closed shops and little footfall.

United can be a top club again with the right people / infrastructure in place. We are god tier some people seem to have forgotten that and it’s about time we acted like a big club again.

Super cutthroat as we once used to be before our fanbase got consistently beaten down to a point we forgot who we actually are. City are a small club end of the day his aim is to put them in the dirt where they belong.

Nobody else can do it in England but us by the way. Nobody else has the fanbase / power. Liverpool perhaps? One title in 30 years. Maybe not.

 

[neon_badger]

It’s not rhetoric. It’s clearly a very concrete raising of standards to address that historic corner cutting. It’s also not a case that the staff are picking a side. Simply the must work the way INEOS want or they will find alternative employment. Sounds harsh but it’s fairly straightforward really. As you say many will be onboard and enthused by the new standards and they will also recognise improvements in the workplace and the need for change.

The reality is they're way below standard in most departments and we all know why, Glazers. Simply saying you must work to our new high standard or hit the door to an already demoralised workforce doesn't sound straightforward, particularly when the person saying it is in a business relationship to those that caused the low standards, to me it suggests an avoidance of addressing how things got so bad. A lot of these staff were part of the club when it operated to standards (pre Glazers) that Ineos can only dream of, why not advocate for a return to those days? Instead of this year zero arrogance, because again that would involve addressing what went wrong, the Glazers .

 

[Posh Red]

All UK companies have to offer a pension scheme that all employees are enrolled in by default. The United one is no better or worse than anywhere else I've worked.

Free lunch admittedly sounds like a good benefit, but come back and tell me that once you've eaten it! I quickly learned to give it a swerve and bring my own or go to the Tesco around the corner! It's honestly the only place I've ever known to include swede in pasta, chilli and stir-frys!

I'm sure it's just a coincidence that it is the cheapest available vegetable!

Yeah I know how pensions work. I’m a financial adviser. Do you know what the contribution rates are, out of interest?

I just went off the GlassDoor reviews which were very favourable about the benefits package, but I’ll take your word for it.

Edit: sorry to be pedantic, but to suggest there aren’t any employee benefits does appear to be quite a ridiculous claim. According to the club, the benefits available are:


• Competitive salaries and job-specific bonus schemes
• Company profit share bonus
• Annual Performance Recognition Awards for our highest achievers
• Employee of the Month, Employee of the Season and Team of the Season Awards
• Long Service Recognition
• Staff Christmas and Summer Parties
• Company Pension Scheme
• Free car parking
• Lunch in free staff restaurant
• Free on site gyms (and discounts at local gyms).
• Regular Health and Wellbeing initiatives
• Sporting events
• Cycle to Work Scheme
• Childcare Vouchers
• Various discounts and special offers from local businesses

 

[neon_badger]

All UK companies have to offer a pension scheme that all employees are enrolled in by default. The United one is no better or worse than anywhere else I've worked.

Free lunch admittedly sounds like a good benefit, but come back and tell me that once you've eaten it! I quickly learned to give it a swerve and bring my own or go to the Tesco around the corner! It's honestly the only place I've ever known to include swede in pasta, chilli and stir-frys!

I'm sure it's just a coincidence that it is the cheapest available vegetable!

Don't forget the match day left overs, lovingly hauled around a stadium operating at a 1 food hygiene rating.

 

[Yakuza_devils]

The problem here is Ratcliffe banning a working practice for ideological, rather than practical, reasons.

Employee's salary will now be denuded with transportation, childcare and other costs, all so the boss can announce themselves as the boss - as he himself continues to work from home. I doubt there will be any salary increases to mitigate circumstances, either.

Not for idealogy for sure. It's for real change to save the club. We are in major decline whether you realise it or not. Change must be for all levels. It affects the entire organisation.

 

[decorativeed]

Yeah I know how pensions work. I’m a financial adviser. Do you know what the contribution rates are, out of interest?

I just went off the GlassDoor reviews which were very favourable about the benefits package, but I’ll take your word for it.

Edit: sorry to be pedantic, but to suggest there aren’t any employee benefits does appear to be quite a ridiculous claim. According to the club, the benefits available are:


• Competitive salaries and job-specific bonus schemes
• Company profit share bonus
• Annual Performance Recognition Awards for our highest achievers
• Employee of the Month, Employee of the Season and Team of the Season Awards
• Long Service Recognition
• Staff Christmas and Summer Parties
• Company Pension Scheme
• Free car parking
• Lunch in free staff restaurant
• Free on site gyms (and discounts at local gyms).
• Regular Health and Wellbeing initiatives
• Sporting events
• Cycle to Work Scheme
• Childcare Vouchers
• Various discounts and special offers from local businesses

OK, points taken - and I don't assume everyone who posts here is UK based with a knowledge of our pension schemes, so posted for anyone who doesn't.

I must admit that I forgot about many of those, as - like the majority of the workforce at United - I was on a zero-hour contract, and wasn't eligible for any of them.

Also, the 'competitive salaries' part I've already covered here. So competitive they don't tell you what they'll pay you until you've had an interview and been offered the job. That's when you find it's significantly below market rates.

 

[Red in STL]

OK, points taken - and I don't assume everyone who posts here is UK based with a knowledge of our pension schemes, so posted for anyone who doesn't.

I must admit that I forgot about many of those, as - like the majority of the workforce at United - I was on a zero-hour contract, and wasn't eligible for any of them.

Also, the 'competitive salaries' part I've already covered here. So competitive they don't tell you what they'll pay you until you've had an interview and been offered the job. That's when you find it's significantly below market rates.

That's not unusual these days, many major companies do this

 

[Plant0x84]

It isn't if it's in their contracts that they can WFH. Ripping that up and giving them a few days notice is bollocks imo but agree to disagree.

I doubt WFH is in the contracts as it was an emergency Covid measure. It would have been a monumental effort to change all employees contracts to reflect the new working arrangements.
Also where are you getting the ‘few days’ notice from? This story was reported on the 9th May and staff are expected back from June. That’s nearly a whole months notice, which is more than reasonable.

 

[decorativeed]

That's not unusual these days, many major companies do this

That's true, but all those companies should be called out for it because it's a shitty practice.

 

[Solius]

I doubt WFH is in the contracts as it was an emergency Covid measure. It would have been a monumental effort to change all employees contracts to reflect the new working arrangements.
Also where are you getting the ‘few days’ notice from? This story was reported on the 9th May and staff are expected back from June. That’s nearly a whole months notice, which is more than reasonable.

I know a few people (obv not at Utd) whose contracts have been changed permanently. Mine included. It's not unreasonable to think people hired in those 4 years had the WFH thing in their contracts. It needs to state their working base most of the time. I obviously don't know the ins and outs of the Utd ones though.

On the notice, I thought I'd read something about him demanding they're in for Monday but not sure. Either way I still find it harsh.

 

[Plant0x84]

The reality is they're way below standard in most departments and we all know why, Glazers. Simply saying you must work to our new high standard or hit the door to an already demoralised workforce doesn't sound straightforward, particularly when the person saying it is in a business relationship to those that caused the low standards, to me it suggests an avoidance of addressing how things got so bad. A lot of these staff were part of the club when it operated to standards (pre Glazers) that Ineos can only dream of, why not advocate for a return to those days? Instead of this year zero arrogance, because again that would involve addressing what went wrong, the Glazers .

Clearly INEOS aren’t going to bad mouth the Glazers - there is thought to be a specific clause relating to that in the sale agreement.
I think many of the staff will be proud to work at Utd and will WANT to help make the club the best it can be. I don’t think there is any attempt to blame the staff, and I don’t think the Glazers being to blame needs spelling out. Can’t blame Jim for wanting to break from the past however.

 

[Rightnr]

Not for idealogy for sure. It's for real change to save the club. We are in major decline whether you realise it or not. Change must be for all levels. It affects the entire organisation.

This is why people vote for the Tories. feck up people's lives who earn decent to good salary, so the billionaire 'can save the club' and of course himself some money.

Bloody depressing attitude.

 

[Posh Red]

OK, points taken - and I don't assume everyone who posts here is UK based with a knowledge of our pension schemes, so posted for anyone who doesn't.

I must admit that I forgot about many of those, as - like the majority of the workforce at United - I was on a zero-hour contract, and wasn't eligible for any of them.

Also, the 'competitive salaries' part I've already covered here. So competitive they don't tell you what they'll pay you until you've had an interview and been offered the job. That's when you find it's significantly below market rates.

I expect they take advantage of the fan’s desire to work for the club when it comes to the salaries, which is wrong.

It does sound like the club as a whole has been mismanaged and could probably do with some streamlining, though.

 

[neon_badger]

Clearly INEOS aren’t going to bad mouth the Glazers - there is thought to be a specific clause relating to that in the sale agreement.
I think many of the staff will be proud to work at Utd and will WANT to help make the club the best it can be. I don’t think there is any attempt to blame the staff, and I don’t think the Glazers being to blame needs spelling out. Can’t blame Jim for wanting to break from the past however.

I'm not sure myself if there is direct blame coming from Ratcliffe towards the current staff, I've jumped in a bit on this but it seems that was being suggested in this thread, I am generally pro Ineos but I've always said the way the business was split into football and non football would prove untenable. As an ex employee I feel strongly on this one, I still have mates at OT and Carrington, I'd argue that instead of blaming employees both owner groups actually owe a debt to the current employees and need to build bridges to help restore the reputations of those staff members as well as the club's, this is where I disagree with the shape up or ship out approach (if that's what's being proposed) as this conveniently helps to remove those "problematic" staff that rightfully have a grievance with the club, instead of resolving said grievance, but again to do so would shine a light on the Glazers shortcomings which as you say can't be done. It could be seen as one owner covering up the incompetence/greed of the other because it's in his interests.

 

[fps]

It’s pretty amazing that the new people come in and the first people they target are the ones on normal salaries living normal lives. I say amazing, I mean predictable and depressing. And some in here say “Well everyone does that these days” so apparently we’re meant to accept that as perfectly fine.

 

[Plant0x84]

I'm not sure myself if there is direct blame coming from Ratcliffe towards the current staff, I've jumped in a bit on this but it seems that was being suggested in this thread, I am generally pro Ineos but I've always said the way the business was split into football and non football would prove untenable. As an ex employee I feel strongly on this one, I still have mates at OT and Carrington, I'd argue that instead of blaming employees both owner groups actually owe a debt to the current employees and need to build bridges to help restore the reputations of those staff members as well as the club's, this is where I disagree with the shape up or ship out approach (if that's what's being proposed) as this conveniently helps to remove those "problematic" staff that rightfully have a grievance with the club, instead of resolving said grievance, but again to do so would shine a light on the Glazers shortcomings which as you say can't be done. It could be seen as one owner covering up the incompetence/greed of the other because it's in his interests.

Certainly agree with the bolded bit. While it’s not necessarily the intention, I can see how this move could be used to avoid having to solve the problems of the previous regime.
It’s interesting to have an ‘inside’ perspective on this too. Your posts are measured and balanced and really add to this discussion.

 

[Plant0x84]

It’s pretty amazing that the new people come in and the first people they target are the ones on normal salaries living normal lives. I say amazing, I mean predictable and depressing. And some in here say “Well everyone does that these days” so apparently we’re meant to accept that as perfectly fine.

Richard Arnold, Cliff Batty, Patrick Stewart and John Murtough among others have already left the club. The players can only be moved on during the transfer windows so that leaves the ‘rank and file’ employees as part of the review. They are hardly being ‘targeted’ and they most definitely are not the first ones.

 

[Woziak]

They already had their dinner, as stated above. So no issue there. SJR just took over, and so far, he has done more, or at least we go into the right direction, compared to the Glazers.

I agree on that however I want him to get the football people in and let them run the club not Brailsford, he let his brother run Nice and went pear shaped very quickly?

How is it deluded to say Old Trafford can be the Wembley up north? We were in the 00’s and can be again.

End of the day we are just about the most famous club in the history of the game so yes we are up there with Wembley or anyone else for that matter if we have the best stadium in the country.

The north needs infrastructure. The more the merrier sometimes at the taxpayers expense I might add. Tory’s have given London everything the past 15 years using the same pot and done sod all “levelling up” they promised.

Look at the city centres in the north these days compared to 20 years ago. I don’t see much levelling up when most of them are full of closed shops and little footfall.

United can be a top club again with the right people / infrastructure in place. We are god tier some people seem to have forgotten that and it’s about time we acted like a big club again.

Super cutthroat as we once used to be before our fanbase got consistently beaten down to a point we forgot who we actually are. City are a small club end of the day his aim is to put them in the dirt where they belong.

Nobody else can do it in England but us by the way. Nobody else has the fanbase / power. Liverpool perhaps? One title in 30 years. Maybe not.

Mark skinner has today reported that he fully understands why the awards were cancelled so from that statement we are to assume what they had previously attended was certainly not the same type of event.

I’m not saying we shouldn’t have a Wembley of the North Ofcourse we should but Sir Jim( A Tax Exile) wanting the British tax payer to foot the bill is a little off don’t you think? Levelling up and spending money on the Salford Quays, Trafford park and the area surrounding old Trafford of course that she be a mandatory use of the funds but building a £2billion state of the art stadium, that’s not going to happen.

City were a small team by the time he’s returned us to the summit they might have 15 PL titles, 10 Fa Cups, 12 Carabo cups and 4 CL Titles, all of a sudden their not so SMALL!

The use of a Deity to describe our beloved Club is a stretch at best, we are not a God, however United is a religion possibly followed by more blind worshiping fans than any other club but we have no Devine right to be at the Top, that takes hard work on training field and a level of courage the current squad do not possess, when we sadly watch the season just fade out with probably 3 more defeats, can you see why the name and the Brand start to become hugely diminished, it’s bad enough when you’ve lost 19 games from 49 games but to leave in charge a clown who might actually lose 22 from 52 games (43%), excuse me if I’m not as confident as you in INEOS, they should have sacked him after the Fulham home defeat and that sort of decisive decision may had led them to CL football next season!

 

[Red in STL]

That's true, but all those companies should be called out for it because it's a shitty practice.

Why is it a shitty practice? Unless it's a union place or it's based on illegal means, such as race etc, they can pay what the deem fit - it's up to you to decide whether yopu find what they pay acceptable

 

[decorativeed]

Why is it a shitty practice? Unless it's a union place or it's based on illegal means, such as race etc, they can pay what the deem fit - it's up to you to decide whether yopu find what they pay acceptable

Because transparency is a good thing in my book?

I know people who have gone through the effort of filling out the applications, taking days off work to travel to Old Trafford for an interview, then again for a second round and when they were offered the job and saw the salary finally, they turned it down because it was less than they were making in a more junior role elsewhere.

Who does that system benefit? Neither the club nor the applicant.

 

[The Mitcher]

Why is it a shitty practice? Unless it's a union place or it's based on illegal means, such as race etc, they can pay what the deem fit - it's up to you to decide whether yopu find what they pay acceptable

We have a minimum wage in the country so they can't really be flexible with it unless they are employing apprentices. Even then, I think most of this is all over blown.

 

[SAF is the GOAT]

 

[Red in STL]

We have a minimum wage in the country so they can't really be flexible with it unless they are employing apprentices. Even then, I think most of this is all over blown.

I don't see rounds of interviews for minimum wage jobs, and if was applying then I'd be asking in the first one what the salary would be, and if they wouldn't answer I'd be out of the door

 

[King7Eric]

That's true, but all those companies should be called out for it because it's a shitty practice.

But surely you can say no if you don't like the salary on offer? I mean I'm UK based now but have worked around Europe over the past few years and pretty much everywhere I was told my exact salary after clearing all interviews and receiving the final offer. At that point, if one doesn't like it, you simply negotiate or reject it and move on.

 

[Yakuza_devils]

This is why people vote for the Tories. feck up people's lives who earn decent to good salary, so the billionaire 'can save the club' and of course himself some money.

Bloody depressing attitude.

It's not about billionaire making money. The club have been badly run for more than a decade. The results shows and we need drastic changes. Many people don't really see any problem with asking employees to work from office. So nothing to complain here. Prior COVID-19 WFH is not even common. This is a privilege not a right.

 

[Plant0x84]

Great stuff. An efficient summer window would be a real shot in the arm after this season. Can’t help but feel a little excitement.

 

[Bright_Eyes]

But surely you can say no if you don't like the salary on offer? I mean I'm UK based now but have worked around Europe over the past few years and pretty much everywhere I was told my exact salary after clearing all interviews and receiving the final offer. At that point, if one doesn't like it, you simply negotiate or reject it and move on.

How are you meant to know if it's worth your time going through the application and interviews process if they don't tell you beforehand how much you'll be paid for your work?

 

[pocco]

But surely you can say no if you don't like the salary on offer? I mean I'm UK based now but have worked around Europe over the past few years and pretty much everywhere I was told my exact salary after clearing all interviews and receiving the final offer. At that point, if one doesn't like it, you simply negotiate or reject it and move on.

It seems to be a relatively new practice in the UK and is becoming more and more prevalent. Previously most job adverts would at least give you a salary range before you apply. In the industry I work in, we're seeing this more and more, and it's not going down well. I, like many others, wouldn't entertain interviewing and the prep when I don't even know what the salary is. If anybody ever tells me that the salary is confidential until after the interview then I would just tell them I'm not interested. They only do it so that they can try to get people for as cheap as possible by gauging their expectations at the interview.

 

[pocco]

How are you meant to know if it's worth your time going through the application and interviews process if they don't tell you beforehand how much you'll be paid for your work?

Exactly, it's daft and is getting a lot of criticism for this exact reason. It's a waste of time and they're potentially shooting themselves in the foot by losing better candidates through this approach.

 

[decorativeed]

But surely you can say no if you don't like the salary on offer? I mean I'm UK based now but have worked around Europe over the past few years and pretty much everywhere I was told my exact salary after clearing all interviews and receiving the final offer. At that point, if one doesn't like it, you simply negotiate or reject it and move on.

Of course you can, but what a waste of everyone's time! An easily avoidable one too.

 

[King7Eric]

How are you meant to know if it's worth your time going through the application and interviews process if they don't tell you beforehand how much you'll be paid for your work?

It seems to be a relatively new practice in the UK and is becoming more and more prevalent. Previously most job adverts would at least give you a salary range before you apply. In the industry I work in, we're seeing this more and more, and it's not going down well. I, like many others, wouldn't entertain interviewing and the prep when I don't even know what the salary is. If anybody ever tells me that the salary is confidential until after the interview then I would just tell them I'm not interested. They only do it so that they can try to get people for as cheap as possible by gauging their expectations at the interview.

Interesting. I've never found this to be a concern when applying for a job. You would know the going market rate for such a role anyway ( or you should based on your previous experience/talking to coworkers) and when asked about salary expectations, you say a rate accordingly.

If knowing salary beforehand is of such importance to you, then you would know that while looking up that job, that they don't advertise salaries. So just don't proceed with applying. This seems a weird thing to have an issue about. At the end of the day a private company can choose how they want to run their recruitment process. If one doesn't agree with it, just simply look elsewhere.

 

[King7Eric]

Of course you can, but what a waste of everyone's time! An easily avoidable one too.

But you would know that up front they won't disclose the salary. If knowing that is really important for you, just simply don't proceed with interviewing for that job and it won't waste anyone's time.