Classic Players - Bryan Robson: The greatest British midfielder ever?

Great read. Well done.

I'm not a big believer in comparing players over the different era's (there is just no possible way you can do that). But the original post does a great job of re-empahsising how could Captain Marvel was.
 
I never really 'got' Bryan Robson until I started watching him intently, what he did off the ball, as well as on the ball, it was only then that I truly understood what all the fuss was about.

Considering that your average latter day box-to-box midfielder is a big powerful fecker (Yaya Toure/Pogba) it is amazing that such a comparatively slight man could become such a great. Captain Marvel indeed.

I was trying to think of a modern day equivalent, and came up with Herrera who, although we all love him, is barely half the player that Robson was.
 
Cheers for the kind comments, everyone.

I don't the across the era comparison.

If Bryan Robson was playing right now, he'd still be first team player, captain and will command a $100m plus fee.

Indeed, when Robson transferred to United for a British record £1.5 million, the world record was £1.7 million (Paolo Rossi) and when Robson was seriously linked with the likes of Juventus and Milan, the price tag was set at £3 million, which was the world record that Diego Maradona went for. Says all you need to know about his market value at that point of time.

In some ways, perhaps it was a good thing that Robson was injured and missed out on the European Cup Winners Cup semi finals against Juventus :lol:





1984 edition of World Soccer magazine said:
At 11.20 on the night of Wednesday, May 9, Milan president Giuseppe Farina called for champagne and ended one of the most extraordinary transfer sagas of Manchester United's eventful history. United had sold, at considerable profit, a gifted England midfield player, but, ultimately, it was the 'other' one, Ray Wilkins, who made the move to Italy.

Italian football, faced with a freeze on imports, had scouts and agents scurrying around the globe all last season in search of reinforcements. The focus of much Italian interest was England's Football League, and in particular the international players of United. Last summer Milan, who eventually signed Luther Blissett from Watford, asked United for Norman Whiteside but the young Irishman rejected the move. Throughout the season, as Blissett struggled to rediscover his goalscoring form, Milan were said to be considering a fresh approach for Whiteside.

As the season progressed, however, so did Italian admiration for United's most treasured possession -- captain and inspiration Bryan Robson. It was Robson who had displaced Wilkins as skipper of club and country, and it was Robson who seemed more and more likely to head for Italy.

Robson, British football's most expensive player at £1.5 million, had repaid United magnificently on the field. His versatility and commitment are unrivalled. Yet from the outset of the Italian campaign to lure him from Old Trafford, it was clear he was attracted by the prospect of the challenge and the enormous rewards.

United manager Ron Atkinson laughed off the early reports of likely Italian bids as "just newspaper talk. How much are they offering this week?" So does all this speculation worry you or the player? "No, we think it's just a giggle. Besides, Robbo is professional enough not to let it bother him. It won't affect his play." Robson knew his lines perfectly. "I am under contract with United for another three years and all that concerns me is giving of my best for this club. I am very happy here and am content to stay here. None of this talk troubles me because all I am interested in is leading United to the Championship.

"If, however, United decided they wanted to sell me I would understand. They spent a lot of money one me and I couldn't blame them for getting it back. I wouldn't stand in their way." There, then, the first clue. A couple of weeks later, the stories and the projected fee still growing, Robson was even more forthcoming. He said: "I've heard nothing definite, just whispers. But at the moment I can't go anywhere without them (United) asking me where I'm going. I've certainly nothing against Italy. Last year, when I was getting over an ankle injury, I went and stayed with Trevor Francis for a week.

"I saw Sampdoria's stadium, watched the team training and then the match against Udinese. I liked the town of Genoa, the sea, everything about it. I don't think I would have trouble adapting.

"Italian defenders mark attackers man for man and that's hell, but for a midfield player it is far less difficult. I'm sure I would have no problem.

"There would also be the incentive of battling with Zico, Platini, Falaco and all the other great players who are in Italian football at the moment."

Sampdoria, with Liam Brady as well as Francis, looked the front-runners for Robson. Brady seemed to be intent on leaving and could be offered as part of a package. So, too, could Francis for that matter as Robson's value was quoted at anything up to £4 million. Juventus were also tracking Robson and Fiorentina were to join the chase later. Whatever Milan or Inter's interest, Robson made it clear that particular city wasn't for him.

Now, with Italian reporters almost a part of the furniture at Old Trafford and the club's training HQ, Atkinson decided to blast with both barrels, "Bryan Robson is going nowhere," he declared.

"There isn't enough money in Italy to buy him."

Not so long after that statement Atkinson, perhaps influenced by his board, took a rather different line, effectively putting a £3 million price on Robson's head. "We wouldn't consider anything less," he said.

That was seen by the United faithful as a distinct indication that the club wanted to sell Robson. Thousands signed a petition demanding they keep their idol. United were accused of being greedy. Chairman Martin Edwards responded: "On the subject of Bryan Robson and whether he may or may not be leaving I have been annoyed by talk of our greed.

"I can tell you that it has nothing to do with greed. That simply doesn't come into it. If the offer is there it is there. We won't do any business unless we can improve the overall team situation. I am not interested in money for money's sake. I don't give a damn about the money.

"We have a manager to run our team and he stands or falls on results, so I'm not going to force him into anything. Robson would be sold only on Ron Atkinson's recommendation. At this stage, anyway, we have not received a formal offer."

A few days after those comments Robson produced a £3 million display to demolish Barcelona and send United into a European Cup-winners Cup semi final against Juventus. Such irony, such possibilities. Then, suddenly, cruelly, Robson pulled a hamstring in training. He was to miss the Juventus tie, a crucial phase of the Championship, and United were to lose both contests.

United stated that there would be no transfer negotiations for Robson until the end of the season. Indeed, there was a new target for the Italians to aim at. One Ray Wilkins.

Wilkins had enjoyed an outstanding season, re-establishing himself in the United midfield and marking his return to England duty with a splendid performance against Northern Ireland. Reports of his form filtered through the Italian league and were greeted with particular enthusiasm by Milan. They were anxious to make a major signing and keep up with their neighbours. Robson was expensive, Wilkins probably not so.

They made an offer of £750,000, which United turned down. But all three parties were willing to pursue negotiations and Farina flew to Manchester to clinch a £1.5 million deal. All that was required was for Wilkins to visit Milan and complete the formalities. He arrived at Linate Airport a little before 2 pm on May 9 to an ecstatic welcome; hundreds of chanting fans crammed the arrivals hall. Wilkins was driven out to Milanello, the club's superb training camp, to meet the players and begin talks over a leisurely lunch. The lunch went down well, but not so Wilkins' demand of what amounted to a cut of the transfer fee.

Discussions were resumed that evening at the club's offices in Milan. Wilkins had agreed a salary of £600,000 over three years and now his lawyer was claiming an extra £100,000. United, by telephone, agreed to pay up and effectively lose £100,000 of their fee. Handshakes all round, bubbly all round. A weary Wilkins said: "This has been the most difficult decision of my career. We have reached a state of compromise and I am happy.

"I have done this for myself and my family but it is not just for the money. The past season with Manchester United was a great challenge for me -- now I have another.

"It has been a tough last eight hours and I've not gone through this getting a headache, for nothing. It is easier to play eight hours against Gentile than go through this.

"It is a wrench for me, leaving United. They are a great set of lads and can achieve great things. One important thing now, though, is that my contract assures my release for all England matches."

Earlier in the day, back in Manchester, Gordon Strachan defied Cologne and signed for United, a move which clearly suited Aberdeen. So United, having already secured the transfer of Danish international Jesper Olsen from Ajax, were well satisfied with their business transactions thus far. Atkinson insisted he was still searching for a striker and that he was also keen on strengthening his defence before launching another attack on Liverpool's Championship supremacy.
 
By the way — I figured this thread is as good as any to ask this, does anyone here have/know where to get a full length copy of that 1984 Barca game?
Maybe by some chance you or your dad had it recorded or something, so far the best I've found is a 24 minutes long highlights from MUTV
 
I'll give plenty of your players credit but Robson wasn't a great footballer, he had poor technique and was a poor passer, couldn't dribble either. Yeah he could run all day, tackle get stuck in and make runs to score goals. But as a playmaker he was the opposite to Scholes, England got bossed for possession against Ireland when he played. He was a large part of the reason you were a mid table side. If he was played at Liverpool in the 80s he would of been lucky to be on the bench. Most overrated player in your clubs history.

I think it's largely about romancing a solid loyal player when you weren't a very good footballing side. But it's no coincidence you started winning the league when he stopped playing a major role. Rating him over Keane is ridiculous.



Beckham was world class, still would be, no one with a better cross today, he made space for his crosses and would do today. He skinned Roberto Carlos easy enough.

Beckham's that good a crosser he might make Giroud prolific.

I have to say that has made me cry laughing with the pure muppetry of some of those statements.
 
I only saw Charlton on tv as a kid so can only judge from the late 70s onwards and for me Robbo was our best player at the club, also the best English player. If he had have been able to play on the bowling greens they play on now, he would have been even better.
He had everything, and wasnt weak in any area, passing, shooting, tackling and marking. As a leader of men he had no peers, and could grab the game by the scruff of the neck, and pull Utd through.
If he had of had better players around him at the time we wouldnt have gone 26 years without the title. I was glad at the end he had the chance to be a 2 times winner, just a pity he wasnt born 10 years later, just think what else we might have achieved in the 90's early 00's.
 
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Scholes was the best English CM.
You obviously didnt see Robbo play, he was as good as scholes, and more. Scholes had a team of excellent players around him, plus the benefit of better pitches, not mud baths.
 
You obviously didnt see Robbo play, he was as good as scholes, and more. Scholes had a team of excellent players around him, plus the benefit of better pitches, not mud baths.
I did see Robson play but you can't deny that Scholes was way more successful. He was a large part of why we won 13 leagues under Ferguson.

Scholes is probably the only certainty in my all time United 11.
 
To be honest, the posts at the start of the thread (and a couple of posts since like @Barca84 ) tell you all about Robson, the player and the person. Great thread @Joga Bonito.

I get the opinion about comparing generations not being easy/perfect though I don't agree it's impossible. If you've watched both eras in full and think "how good was this player in THEIR era?", "how did EACH player dictate and change games?", I think you can make a comparison.

No idea why the comparison between Robson and Charlton keeps getting made. Just because Charlton's position was changed from the older "inside forward" to "midfielder", doesn't mean there's a comparison in the same way you can't compare Scholes and Keane despite both being "midfielders" (and in the same era).

The more obvious comparison to Robson is Keane, Gerrard, Lampard and Souness. For me, Souness and Keane are the closest ... both excellent players but also players who played in truly excellent teams which you can't ignore as it's a huge benefit to be surrounded by quality players. Souness played with Clemence, McDermott, Hansen, Ray Kennedy, Neal, Dalglish, Rush, Nicol, etc.... Keane had Schmeicel, Bruce, Irwin, G Neville, Scholes, Giggs, Yorke, Ruud, etc. Count the League and European Cup medals that lot have got?!

Robson didn't have that quality to support him... to take some of the defensive burden, to help drive the team forward, to finish more of the chances created. If you look at the list of United greats, they probably played with other top players... the Babes or the great 60's teams or the great Ferguson teams. Robson's the exception. Older United fans will always think fondly of Albiston, Muhren, Wilkins, Bailey, Hughes, etc but they're not the quality of United 60s/90s or Liverpool 70s/80s.The only player with Robson of that top quality was probably McGrath.

Defend, head, pass, tackle, timing, energy, determination to win, score goals and true leadership (Martin Johnson style)... all things you look for in great midfielders. There have been players who were better in some areas (Scholes passing for example) but Robson had it all.... great player, great captain, great man.

You're doing down Wilkins & Hughes there, imo. Although the overall point is entirely valid.

There were a couple of patches of 6mnths where we nearly got there, or looked like getting there & then it was back to being a good Cup team. Longer periods when we were outright crap, mind.

Best players from 78-90 is a pretty short list though, a few fans favourites getting put forward maybe (Whiteside) but not that many you could say were top top top class over a sustained time.

I'd go with: Robson, McGrath, Hughes, Wilkins, probably missed someone. There's a much longer list of those who were OK, you'll do because we like you, and far too many in the 'what on earth are you even doing here?' category.

@WackyWengerWorld - you have a ghost of a point, Robson wasn't a technician but he was comfortably good enough, and the game was different then, the technicians had a much tougher time of it - Wilkins for us, Hoddle was supposedly a luxury player who went missing or was watching the ball smashed get smashed back & forth over his head. Robson never went missing, that's for sure. And he played in some awful teams too. Practically all of 1986-89, for example. <--- Including the worst 2nd place team I've ever seen, possibly.
 
I did see Robson play but you can't deny that Scholes was way more successful. He was a large part of why we won 13 leagues under Ferguson.

Scholes is probably the only certainty in my all time United 11.
Love Scholes too but, just like Keane, he had world class players alongside him which enabled him to be more successful in terms of trophies. Robson was as close to a one man team that you'll get in the United team of the 80's. Your statement implies that if Scholes was in that 80's team United would have won a lot more. Wouldn't have happened.
 
What a player, may favourite ever United player...why ? he was a stand out class act in a team, that wasn't really that good. As Lineker states, had he not had the injuries, he would have left a bigger mark on the game. I remember that when he had a serious injury out on the pitch, you could sense it in the crowd, no Robbo for a while , end of season.....

Yes, agree Sir Bobby Charlton is probably the greatest England player ever, however, he was a different player than Robbo, and a bit like Keano, generally played in better teams.

A true gent too. I recall being in a bar in Rotterdam the afternoon before the ECWC Final v Barca, and a few mates met up with us and said they were staying at the 'team hotel' - not believing them , I asked them for details and they gave me a card. I called the Hotel, and asked for Bryan Robson. The receptionist put me straight through ! Robbo must have been on the line for about 40 minutes as the phone kept getting passed around the Reds in the bar.....he could easily have declined........

Also, a friend's two sons rode out to his house in Bowden once, and by the time they got there, it had lashed it down. They knocked on the door and asked for his autograph. He said 'get yerselves in here and I'll put the bikes in the garage until the rain dies down'. His missus gave them towels to dry themselves and they were served some Sunday Lunch, and afterwards, he put their bikes in his motors and took them the 5 miles back home...... how many pro football stars would do that ?

Class player, class guy , and he could handle his booze too !

great article bye the way, must have taken you a decade to compile !
 
Hope I don't get stick for this but I always thought Robson and Gerrard were very similar stylistically.
Aye, probably heresy on here, but you can see it in their all-action style and their over-compensation in getting their team to compete at the top end.
 
Love Scholes too but, just like Keane, he had world class players alongside him which enabled him to be more successful in terms of trophies. Robson was as close to a one man team that you'll get in the United team of the 80's. Your statement implies that if Scholes was in that 80's team United would have won a lot more. Wouldn't have happened.
Robson had Hughes, McClair, Ince and McGrath. I wouldn't say it was a one man Team.
 
been supporting united since the late 60s basicaly the end of the holy trinity era and can say without doubt bryan robson in his his prime was the greatest player to pull on the red shirt since those halycon days. in the mid 80s he was probably in best in europe if not the world pure class
 
Aye, probably heresy on here, but you can see it in their all-action style and their over-compensation in getting their team to compete at the top end.
There are similarities, but Robson had an all round team game and tactical sense (see vids above) that was Gerrard's specific weakness.
 
You're doing down Wilkins & Hughes there, imo. Although the overall point is entirely valid.

There were a couple of patches of 6mnths where we nearly got there, or looked like getting there & then it was back to being a good Cup team. Longer periods when we were outright crap, mind.

Best players from 78-90 is a pretty short list though, a few fans favourites getting put forward maybe (Whiteside) but not that many you could say were top top top class over a sustained time.

I'd go with: Robson, McGrath, Hughes, Wilkins, probably missed someone. There's a much longer list of those who were OK, you'll do because we like you, and far too many in the 'what on earth are you even doing here?' category.

@WackyWengerWorld - you have a ghost of a point, Robson wasn't a technician but he was comfortably good enough, and the game was different then, the technicians had a much tougher time of it - Wilkins for us, Hoddle was supposedly a luxury player who went missing or was watching the ball smashed get smashed back & forth over his head. Robson never went missing, that's for sure. And he played in some awful teams too. Practically all of 1986-89, for example. <--- Including the worst 2nd place team I've ever seen, possibly.
Ahuh, not trying to do them down (Robson, McGrath and Whiteside are 3 of my fave top.10 and the first two on my all-time XI).... they just weren't comparable to the players or squad of the other LFC/MUFC eras I mentioned.... difference between Champions and top few.
 
A true gent too. I recall being in a bar in Rotterdam the afternoon before the ECWC Final v Barca, and a few mates met up with us and said they were staying at the 'team hotel' - not believing them , I asked them for details and they gave me a card. I called the Hotel, and asked for Bryan Robson. The receptionist put me straight through ! Robbo must have been on the line for about 40 minutes as the phone kept getting passed around the Reds in the bar.....he could easily have declined........

Also, a friend's two sons rode out to his house in Bowden once, and by the time they got there, it had lashed it down. They knocked on the door and asked for his autograph. He said 'get yerselves in here and I'll put the bikes in the garage until the rain dies down'. His missus gave them towels to dry themselves and they were served some Sunday Lunch, and afterwards, he put their bikes in his motors and took them the 5 miles back home...... how many pro football stars would do that ?

Great stuff, thanks for sharing them.

I'd go with: Robson, McGrath, Hughes, Wilkins, probably missed someone. There's a much longer list of those who were OK, you'll do because we like you, and far too many in the 'what on earth are you even doing here?' category.

:lol:

I'd go with Robson, McGrath, Whiteside, Hughes, Wilkins, Kevin Moran and Jesper Olsen (shame it didn't work for out for him but he seemed like an excellent winger to me).
 
Robson had Hughes, McClair, Ince and McGrath. I wouldn't say it was a one man Team.
My exact quote was:
as close to a one man team that you'll get in the United team of the 80's.
So no not a one man team but when he went missing it made a huge difference in how effective the team were in getting results. Also Ince was more of a 90's player for us. His first season for us was 89/90.
 
There are similarities, but Robson had an all round team game and tactical sense (see vids above) that was Gerrard's specific weakness.

Indeed. Gerrard was a fine player but wasn't as tactically or defensively astute as Robson. The fact that he couldn't really make it work with Lampard in a duo and how his best came in a midfield trio with Mascherano & Alonso, does give you an indication about where his tendencies laid - more of an offensive box to box midfielder with plenty of graft and physicality but not exactly someone imbued with the acute defensive tactical nous.

Robson on the other hand, played with a whole raft of drastically different midfield partners, in various roles and excelled in them all. One of the prime reasons why I made a stylistic comparison with Lothar Matthäus in the OP, with regards to their completeness.




Plays in a midfield duo with Hoddle, who wasn't exactly the most hard-working midfielder by any means, and it's a tremendous performance from Robson against the ridiculously stacked midfield - one of the greatest ever, the famed Carre Magique, featuring ballon d'Or winner Michel Platini, Alain Giresse, Jean Tigana and Luis Fernandez. Very much the definition of a one man midfield show.




Plays in a midfield duo with Glenn Hoddle, a lackadaisical playmaker, yet again, and plays the more disciplined role but still gets forward aplenty whilst providing the steel and discipline in midfield - all in all a proper midfield general performance. Grabs a brilliant goal for good measure.




Plays alongside Wilkins, more of the positionally reserverd holding sort, and excels with 2 goals against Michel Platini's France - could have very well had a hat-trick.




With Blackmore, more of a utility man but played a reserved role alongside Robson against the Scouse. Terrific all-round performance to say the least. Even slots in as a sweeper towards the dying moments of the game when we'd subbed on a forward or two and didn't need another body in the box.



Also of course, it should be noted that Robson played in a different era whereby the wingers were expected to put in the yards and there were tactical differences. However, he was more tactically malleable, with a more profound defensive and tactical acumen, than most dynamic box to box midfielders, especially the ones with an eye for the goal.
 
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I did see Robson play but you can't deny that Scholes was way more successful. He was a large part of why we won 13 leagues under Ferguson.

Scholes is probably the only certainty in my all time United 11.
Yes because he played with WCplayers on superior pitches. If you swapped them around, Scholes playing in an inferior team in the 80s and Robbo playing at his peak in the mid 90s to mid 2000s with the much better players there would be no comparison. In fact I think we may have had 1-2 more CL cups
 
Robson was a fantastic footballer, he played every game like it was his last. In my opinion some way better than Keane, both as a footballer and a professional. Keane played in far superior United teams but he couldn't rouse a team like Robson. My minds eye image of Robson is of him looking battle hardened, knackered, muddied and hands clapping turning full circle getting every ounce of energy from his team mates.

There has been no better United captain.
 
Robson was a fantastic footballer, he played every game like it was his last. In my opinion some way better than Keane, both as a footballer and a professional. Keane played in far superior United teams but he couldn't rouse a team like Robson. My minds eye image of Robson is of him looking battle hardened, knackered, muddied and hands clapping turning full circle getting every ounce of energy from his team mates.

There has been no better United captain.

Indeed, we've been privileged to have had two such phenomenal captains and both have legitimate claims to being the greatest captain in United history.
 
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Hope I don't get stick for this but I always thought Robson and Gerrard were very similar stylistically.
Yeah. Gerrard himself said that Robbo was his inspiration iirc.
Robson was much smarter positionally though.
 
Yeah. Gerrard himself said that Robbo was his inspiration iirc.
Robson was much smarter positionally though.

Steven Gerrard said:
Bryan Robson had been an earlier England favourite. Captain Marvel played in midfield, just like me. When he wore white, I forgot all about the fact that Robson was a Manchester United player. I hated United, but I loved Robson. My dad came home one day to find me out in the street, playing football in my England shirt with Robson on the back.

Dad called me inside for a quiet word. What was I thinking? Wearing a Robson shirt - in Huyton? What would the neighbours think? Dad would put up with it behind closed doors, to humour me, and because he also knew how great Robson was for England. But I needed to keep my head screwed on outside. I nodded, changed and went back out into the street in Liverpool red. I still liked imagining I was Robson.

:lol:
 
Robson was a fantastic footballer, he played every game like it was his last. In my opinion some way better than Keane, both as a footballer and a professional. Keane played in far superior United teams but he couldn't rouse a team like Robson. My minds eye image of Robson is of him looking battle hardened, knackered, muddied and hands clapping turning full circle getting every ounce of energy from his team mates.

There has been no better United captain.

Bit unfair on Keane. I think because of his slating of team mates at the end of his time here and his interviews and quotes since retiring some people forget what a fantastic player and captain Keane was for the club. Robson was a better captain and player than Keane even though for me Keane was actually under rated in his talents as a player, for example his weight of short pass never got the credit it deserved, but Keane was a leader all right, bit unfair to say "some way better" as for me as a captain Keane wasnt far behind at all and Robson is possibly my favourite player.
 
There are similarities, but Robson had an all round team game and tactical sense (see vids above) that was Gerrard's specific weakness.
True, as Joga's post details. And Gerrard was technically a bit slicker and was a cleaner striker of the ball.
 
By the way — I figured this thread is as good as any to ask this, does anyone here have/know where to get a full length copy of that 1984 Barca game?
Maybe by some chance you or your dad had it recorded or something, so far the best I've found is a 24 minutes long highlights from MUTV

Im sure MuTV normally show the full length game once a year and Im sure Ive seen it at random on the TV Listings. You can buy it on VHS but its edited down to 60 minutes.

Anyway for Robson, when I was old enough to remember watching United he was coming to the tail end of his career but even then you could see he was bloody brilliant.
 
Im sure MuTV normally show the full length game once a year and Im sure Ive seen it at random on the TV Listings. You can buy it on VHS but its edited down to 60 minutes.

Anyway for Robson, when I was old enough to remember watching United he was coming to the tail end of his career but even then you could see he was bloody brilliant.
It's MUTV's compilation that I have and it's only 24 minutes long :(
 
Greatest british midfielder of his era, yes, I can see the argument for that. Of all time? Come on, get real.

I personally wouldn't include Keane or Best in the selection given I understand geography, but there are a handful of british midfielders who in their own era proved themselves as good, if not better than Robson.

In the early 90s he was my top United player but Scholes was a better midfielder. Bobby Charlton won a World Cup for god's sake...

But I agree with the assessment he is one of United's better captains, midfielders and all time players of note.
 
It's MUTV's compilation that I have and it's only 24 minutes long :(

There is a full length recording out there as I used to have it (VHS - mangled tape - RIP) Worth scouting around - try UWS?

I'll never forget the noise - all games were loud back then but this was something else.
 
There is a full length recording out there as I used to have it (VHS - mangled tape - RIP) Worth scouting around - try UWS?

I'll never forget the noise - all games were loud back then but this was something else.
Yeah, the sound is incredible in my recording, and the way they cheer Robson after the game (with hundreds of fans on the pitch, trying to touch him)!

What's UWS? You can PM if it's not something that should be discussed openly