The common sense approach. I still want ETH to leave, but I wouldn't be furious if he stayed and was given another year. With the backroom being sorted, and the right people in place, who knows what we can achieve.
CL Final - How far are we from reaching this level of football?
- Thread starter Chicharo
- Start date
We are a long way off. But a ‘long way’ can be bridged very quickly. Liverpool were nowhere in 2015, but three years later they were in a final, and 4 years later they won it.
What we need is to have about 3 summer transfer windows where we get our recruitment absolutely spot on. Then as long as we are getting it right on the training pitch, we won’t be far off.
What we need is to have about 3 summer transfer windows where we get our recruitment absolutely spot on. Then as long as we are getting it right on the training pitch, we won’t be far off.
For obvious reasons, because our performances this year were severely crippled by injuries to key players. Ten Hag went into this year thinking he would have the services of Sancho and Greenwood available to him, then proceeded to lose our most important player (Martinez) to injury for most of the year and had to deal with managing the most injured club in the league, to include significant injuries to Mount, Malacia, Shaw, Maguire, and Casimiro. That's more than enough to derail any club including Madrid and City.
I'm pretty much in the same camp. And I suspect the length of time its taking for the club to decide on the manager situation probably leans in favor of ETH staying rather than leaving. If they wanted him gone, they would've done what they did to LvG by letting him go immediately after winning the cup.
If he was staying they would have released a statement by now and there wouldnt be reports of them speaking to multiple different managers about the job.
As far away as most teams who finish 8th in their league. Europa league is the best european trophy we might get towards a final of in the next 3 years
Them speaking to other managers in the lead up to the cup final was perfectly plausible. Just as it could be plausible they want to keep ETH after he won the FA Cup. If they want to keep ETH, they don't need to make a statement saying so. They just proceed as if his job was never in jeopardy and go on about their summer transfer business and US tour plans.
Of course they need to release a statement when the media is constantly talking about him being sacked and linking us with other managers.
In our current state we're nowhere near.
But things can change quickly, and we have the means to change significantly if the new guys get key decisions correct, and recruitment is spot on from now on. Ruthless and smart is what they'll need to be if they hope to take us to the top.
But things can change quickly, and we have the means to change significantly if the new guys get key decisions correct, and recruitment is spot on from now on. Ruthless and smart is what they'll need to be if they hope to take us to the top.
We are winning the Europa next year.
2026 we will get to semis.
We Will win CL 2028
Roadmap set!
2026 we will get to semis.
We Will win CL 2028
Roadmap set!
I’ve saved this post in the event that you’re correct.
No we didn't. 19 games, 11 wins, 5 draws & 3 losses. 2 points per game average. We were clearly one of the best teams in Europe at the time we won it with arguably the best defense in Europe.
Yeah. I’m pretty sure that you were in mid table or something when you sacked Lampard.
There is a fundamental core to the team which can be built on.
If I look at Arsenal, they have a young team that each year is getting closer and they are now adding those missing pieces. I would not be surprised to see them win the league in the next 2-3 years. As a squad building exercise, I think it’s been really interesting to watch it come together.
Applying that back to United, obviously they are at the start of that journey but if they can add the missing parts, we can have a young team that we can continue to build with.
I’m also hopeful that we will have a crop of youngsters from the academy that will be added to that strong core. The likes of Lacey and
The manager will need to be sorted and whether Ten Hag stays or goes, it is clear we need to be playing proactive football and to be on the front foot.
If I look at Arsenal, they have a young team that each year is getting closer and they are now adding those missing pieces. I would not be surprised to see them win the league in the next 2-3 years. As a squad building exercise, I think it’s been really interesting to watch it come together.
Applying that back to United, obviously they are at the start of that journey but if they can add the missing parts, we can have a young team that we can continue to build with.
I’m also hopeful that we will have a crop of youngsters from the academy that will be added to that strong core. The likes of Lacey and
The manager will need to be sorted and whether Ten Hag stays or goes, it is clear we need to be playing proactive football and to be on the front foot.
Nah. We should encourage them after every stinker and make them understand it's a just a game after all. Participation is all that matters. Winning and standards of excellence are overrated. They are "our" lads and not some multi-millionaire professional sportsmen.
Antony as not-selected full-kit wanker at the trophy celebration.
I think we're not far off.
If we signed two great players
a) One who could offer 20+ goals from an attacking position
b) One who could have a similar impact as John Stones/Kyle Walker at the back.
We'd probably be right up there if we were lucky with injuries.
We have played Liverpool three times this year and not lost any of the games. We've just beat Man City. I actually think in every game against Arsenal since ETH took over we've been either on top or very close. TBF that last game was an exception but even then we had moments where we looked brightish.
We're not as far away as everyone thinks. If we could sign a player like Salah or Van Dijk, it changes everything.
If we signed two great players
a) One who could offer 20+ goals from an attacking position
b) One who could have a similar impact as John Stones/Kyle Walker at the back.
We'd probably be right up there if we were lucky with injuries.
We have played Liverpool three times this year and not lost any of the games. We've just beat Man City. I actually think in every game against Arsenal since ETH took over we've been either on top or very close. TBF that last game was an exception but even then we had moments where we looked brightish.
We're not as far away as everyone thinks. If we could sign a player like Salah or Van Dijk, it changes everything.
Liverpool infamously lost the title to a slip just two years before. We'd be much closer if we hadn't blown so much money on Antony, Mount, and arguably Onana who still seems erratic at best. Mount is a squad player whose role is still questionable and we need to figure out a way to shift Antony if we want to go anywhere. With that said, if we can't move on Antony then maybe ETH is the best guy to get the most out of him.
Right now you're almost certainly the favourites to win the Europa. If you'll still be the favourites come the knockouts really just depends on which teams drop down from the CL .
Teams won’t be dropping down from the champions league anymore.
Then you're the favourites. Congrats!
By the time Klopp had gone into Liverpool, they had lost 3 of their best 4 players. That team he had by the time he took over was average and a shadow of the team that ran City close. In fact they didn’t build on that 2nd place finish because they lost Suarez and didn’t recruit well.
But your following point is part of the problem and solution. Recruitment is a huge factor for us, we’ve spent so much money in the past 10 years and have got very little value out of it. If we are able to turn this around then our fortunes will follow as well.
Yup, I’d definitely say that we have a good chance of winning it. We should give it a proper go. I’d imagine that you’re the favourites for the Conference League, what other teams will be in it?
Your ultra red tinted beams shine through every thread I see pretty much.
Our last four exits in Europe.
20/21 - Out in the groups. 3rd behind PSG and RB Leipzig
21/22 - 2nd round CL knockout vs Atletico
22/23 - Quarter final EL knockout vs Sevilla
23/24 - Out in the groups. 4th behind Bayern, Copenhagen and Galatasaray
How does that seem not far off to you and how have you managed to spin scenarios of performing better with easier routes when we can even come out of our groups.
The bolded bit can’t be serious.
He won all group games once with Ajax so he has it in him.
I wish you were right. We need to make those improvements you mention but we need competition for every position. Basically two players who are the required level for each.
No one has that depth anymore. It’s impossible to have that and keep the squad happy.
We're not "probably right up there" if it wasn't for injuries. Even if you think these one-off results and performances against Liverpool, City and Arsenal mean a lot while ignoring the entire rest of the season, Crystal Palace would be a lot closer to this level than us.
No it doesn't. Even that lot needed Salah and Van Dijk and Fabinho and Alisson. Basically a whole new spine had to be added. To a team that already had Mane and was managed by fecking Klopp.
It doesn't always take years of linear progress to suddenly be a dangerous team in the latter stages of the CL. Chelsea's 2020/21 season is a great example of that.
I've also mentioned some of those campaigns...? I don't want to repeat myself, to be honest. If you contextualize those results in those 4 seasons, you'll see that this team isn't a million miles away from being a dangerous CL side.
I feel like it's not me who sees everything through rose-tinted glasses, but rather the general consensus on here is that everything is bad, everything will take a decade to fix, every player we have is awful, etc. I recognize the negatives and all the bad things that have happened in the last few seasons, but ignoring the positives and just going full doom and gloom won't make you an unbiased poster.
Please don't ignore that A, we're a gigantic club that has been a statistical anomaly in the last 11 years in regards to money spent and success achieved, under incompetent owners. If Ineos are going to be even just half-decent at running the club, we'll be miles better than we have been for the last 11 years...and B, the players that played a big part in our 20/21 and 22/23 seasons that are still here didn't just turn shit overnight, and neither did those players that we've signed from other clubs and have either been mostly injured or haven't had the opportunity to play in an optimal environment so far. Just look at Amrabat for example. As soon as the tactical setup was changed, he suddenly looks like a much better player. Judging our new signings, or players who have already proven themselves before on a nightmare season like 21/22 or 23/24 is going to give you the wrong idea about their capabilities.
Edit: Right now we're entering a new era, that hasn't even properly started yet. We have a good 10-15 players who are way better than 95% of the fanbase would have you believe. We're going to be odds-on favorites for the 2024/25 Europa League. We finally have owners who have big ambitions on the sporting side of things, and are investing their own money into the club. The earliest we can get back into the CL will be the 2025/26 season. Ineos not only have a decent base to build on regarding not just the squad, but the whole club I feel like, and there's a lot they can do in the next 12 months. I mentioned Chelsea, but they're not the only example. Arsenal suddenly became one of the best teams in Europe after coming 5th with 69 points the previous season in 21/22. Liverpool were in a similar, or worse position than us when they finished 6th on 62 points in the 2014/25 season. We are one of the biggest and richest clubs in the world, playing in the de facto Super League. I don't think it will take a lot of years for us to return to the elite, if Ineos aren't complete idiots. And like I said, I believe the squad Ineos are starting out with is actually decent, add to that our financial strength and attractiveness in the transfer market, and I'm optimistic about the future.
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We also need a manager who has pedigree of winning the Champions League. Ancelotti, Zidane and Pep have won the bulk of the last 12 or so.
,
So here's your choices aside for the above 3, take your pick:
Thomas Tuchel, Hansi Flick, Jürgen Klopp, Luis Enrique, Vicente del Bosque, Ottmar Hitzfeld, José Mourinho, Rafael Benítez, Frank Rijkaard, Roberto Di Matteo, Jupp Heynckes, Marcello Lippi, Fabio Capello,Raymond Goethals
That Dortmund side were so well organized, structured and everyone knew their role in the system and played for the team and that particular philosophy of football.
We dont even have a system, never mind a philosophy. As for being organised and structured? Not a chance? Playing for the team? Self sacrifice? Rashford says hello.
Basically we are nowhere near them nevermind Madrid and our season reflects that.
You mean the kind of good cup run that starts with finishing top of a a piss easy group containing PSG, Milan and Newcastle as opposed to finishing bottom of a tough one that had Bayern, Copenhagen and Galatasaray?
Things in football can change very quickly. Look at Chelsea with Tuchel.
So the answer is both: it can happen in a couple of years (seen as we're not in the UCL next season
) or we can continuously get it wrong and it can take us....forever!
So the answer is both: it can happen in a couple of years (seen as we're not in the UCL next season
) or we can continuously get it wrong and it can take us....forever!
That Dortmund side were so well organized, structured and everyone knew their role in the system and played for the team and that particular philosophy of football.
We dont even have a system, never mind a philosophy. As for being organised and structured? Not a chance? Playing for the team? Self sacrifice? Rashford says hello.
Basically we are nowhere near them nevermind Madrid and our season reflects that.
Managed to win one more trophy than they did weirdly?
The kind of cup run that sees us beat Liverpool and City yep
You know CL games have two legs, right?
Ok I see this will get silly.
There's not much between Utd and Dortmund. My opinion. Therefore we could pull off a run like they did once in a while. Plenty of evidence over the last 100 years of football proves that. Not least our own FA cup run v two of the top sides in europe this very season.
End of my point.
Not trying to be silly. Just that it's much harder to fluke a CL, and I'm not that confident we could've done liverpool over two legs. Now if he somehow did win the CL this year, I'd gladly give him some more time like chelsea did for Di Matteo!
And Dortmund finished 5th in the Bundesliga, which is an arguably easier league than the EPL.
On our day, I honestly think we can beat anyone. Our big problem; however, is consistency. Too often, we blow hot and cold.
If we can sort this out, along with making the right additions to the squad this summer, there's no reason as to why we shouldn't replicating a somewhat similar first season under ten Hag and possibly more.