Christopher Vivell | Appointed director of recruitment on short term deal

[NotChatGPT]

The thing that Dortmund and RBL/S have on us is that they will start playing someone regularly at 17/18 if they have enough potential. Having Salzburg in Austria was a genius move. An easier league, CL football… great coaching. Hopefully under our multi club model we can buy prospects for Lausanne and Nice and actually have then be able to eventually play for us. They know they are signing for Utd more or less if it goes really well.

It's very much part of the reason multi clubs should be completely abolished. I have no idea how the authorities don't see the bigger issues at hand, especially with clubs like Newcastle, City etc. You easily end up with situations where they have clubs all over the world and circumvent rules. Hoard talents here, hoard talents there, place them within the multi club structure and then move them. It's a cheat code for clubs where money isn't a problem thanks to state ownership.

 

[Ali Dia]

It's very much part of the reason multi clubs should be completely abolished. I have no idea how the authorities don't see the bigger issues at hand, especially with clubs like Newcastle, City etc. You easily end up with situations where they have clubs all over the world and circumvent rules. Hoard talents here, hoard talents there, place them within the multi club structure and then move them. It's a cheat code for clubs where money isn't a problem thanks to state ownership.

I agree but until it is abolished we have to at least keep up. We could have had a great cheap team and made millions which would have the club in much better shape now. Not keeping up is the main problem with Utd under the glazers

 

[stefan92]

It's very much part of the reason multi clubs should be completely abolished. I have no idea how the authorities don't see the bigger issues at hand, especially with clubs like Newcastle, City etc. You easily end up with situations where they have clubs all over the world and circumvent rules. Hoard talents here, hoard talents there, place them within the multi club structure and then move them. It's a cheat code for clubs where money isn't a problem thanks to state ownership.

It is restricted. That's why UEFA blocks the Todibo transfer from Nice to United and that's why the pipeline from Salzburg to Leipzig has dried up a bit (https://www.transfermarkt.com/rb-le...n=2014&saisonIdBis=2024&zuab=zu&verein_id=409 lots of moves to get Leipzig started until they both appeared in the CL and had to cut their ties down to comply with UEFA rules, much fewer since then and all for a reasonable reported fee)

Chelsea's loan army was more effective in recent years at getting players through and getting money than multi-club ownership models

 

[NotChatGPT]

It is restricted. That's why UEFA blocks the Todibo transfer from Nice to United and that's why the pipeline from Salzburg to Leipzig has dried up a bit (https://www.transfermarkt.com/rb-le...n=2014&saisonIdBis=2024&zuab=zu&verein_id=409 lots of moves to get Leipzig started until they both appeared in the CL and had to cut their ties down to comply with UEFA rules, much fewer since then and all for a reasonable reported fee)

Chelsea's loan army was more effective in recent years at getting players through and getting money than multi-club ownership models

Is that down to same competitions or is that down to same ownership. If it's the former then it's again easy to circumvent.

A

 

[stefan92]

Is that down to same competitions or is that down to same ownership. If it's the former then it's again easy to circumvent.

A

As I remember for the Salzburg/Leipzig issue (who formally never had the same owner) it was a problem of executive people working for both clubs. They had to clearly separate the entities and ensure that formally no one could order someone at the other club to do something.

But that's always the problem, if you have a successful feeder club, it will end up in the same European competition (or if your main club has a terrible season, like United), so you will have that problem. And if your feeder club isn't successful, it doesn't get the players the experience that would help them at your main club.

I agree that things still could be ruled better and such models could be ruled out completely, but

 

[SAF is the GOAT]

 

[aeh1991]

Maybe he can bring in some talents from the RB system, like Gourna-Douath, Dedic, Sucic, etc.

 

[Moston Red]

Why is it a temporary position? Do we have someone more permanent in mind?

 

[TheReligion]

Why is it a temporary position? Do we have someone more permanent in mind?

Yes @LuckyScout78

 

[horsechoker]

Yes @LuckyScout78

Fired on the first day for giving Ashworth a 2000 page document to read

 

[Gordon S]

Fired on the first day for giving Ashworth a 2000 page document to read

To be honest, i think it was the ”PS not interested in discussions DS” at the end of the 2000 pages that broke the camels back.

 

[In Absentia]

I’m wondering why we signed Vivell this summer (only) when we seem to still be chasing the targets set at the start. I'd be delighted with Ugarte and De Ligt, so that's okay, but I thought we might move on for Vivell’s targets if those negotiations were stretching. Do we think Obi-Martin and Gabriel Mec might be Vivell’s influence?

 

[croadyman]

I’m wondering why we signed Vivell this summer (only) when we seem to still be chasing the targets set at the start. I'd be delighted with Ugarte and De Ligt, so that's okay, but I thought we might move on for Vivell’s targets if those negotiations were stretching. Do we think Obi-Martin and Gabriel Mec might be Vivell’s influence?

Yeah that is a bit weird

 

[simonhch]

I’m wondering why we signed Vivell this summer (only) when we seem to still be chasing the targets set at the start. I'd be delighted with Ugarte and De Ligt, so that's okay, but I thought we might move on for Vivell’s targets if those negotiations were stretching. Do we think Obi-Martin and Gabriel Mec might be Vivell’s influence?

I think it’s completely pointless to speculate, when our only sources of data are speculative press reports that are more often than not inaccurate.

There is simply no way anyone here can give you anything resembling a coherent or informed answer to your query. I can simply say that I confidently assume that recruitment focus is far more nuanced, detailed, and widespread than is externally visible. And I also suspect that it’s happening at the very least in an ambidextrous manner, I.e. simultaneously short term exploitative thinking, and long term explorative thinking. To effectively operate both modes concurrently, one either needs to separate temporally (not ideal) or structurally by having multiple people for the different roles and strategic intent. That is where I suspect Vivell comes in.

 

[pcaming]

I’m wondering why we signed Vivell this summer (only) when we seem to still be chasing the targets set at the start. I'd be delighted with Ugarte and De Ligt, so that's okay, but I thought we might move on for Vivell’s targets if those negotiations were stretching. Do we think Obi-Martin and Gabriel Mec might be Vivell’s influence?

Because the club has targets, why would we sign his targets? He wouldn't know the ins and outs of anything.

It's also not only about targets.

 

[In Absentia]

Because the club has targets, why would we sign his targets? He wouldn't know the ins and outs of anything.

It's also not only about targets.

Don't see your arse about it.

If the club has Ugarte and De Ligt as targets that's fine by me, but Vivell would hopefully have alternatives with similar profiles so we can move on if we can't get our first choices.

If Vivell ‘doesn't know the ins and outs of anything’ then a short term contract for him seems slightly pointless. I’m sure the club think he can add value now, and I'm just wondering out loud what it is.

 

[OverratedOpinion]

Don't see your arse about it.

If the club has Ugarte and De Ligt as targets that's fine by me, but Vivell would hopefully have alternatives with similar profiles so we can move on if we can't get our first choices.

If Vivell ‘doesn't know the ins and outs of anything’ then a short term contract for him seems slightly pointless. I’m sure the club think he can add value now, and I'm just wondering out loud what it is.

Let's be honest, we are all totally guessing how the workload is being divided between Ashworth, Vivell, Wilcox ect. (We probably have the best idea between Berrada and Ashworth).

We haven't had nearly enough experienced and highly rated football people in the club for years. The more the better right now as we work towards a new structure. If it was slight overkill signing one of them it's still another experienced person to offer ideas.

 

[Zoo]

 

[stefan92]

If Vivell ‘doesn't know the ins and outs of anything’ then a short term contract for him seems slightly pointless. I’m sure the club think he can add value now, and I'm just wondering out loud what it is.

Just reading it now, so a quite late answer: As director of recruitment he likely has to take care of actually doing and negotiating transfers, not identifying or providing targets. For this job it's not necessary to know the ins and outs of the club he is working for, but it's more important to have a professional relationship to every other club in the world to be able to negotiate with them (also of course agents and players).

Considering that the window overall went quite professional without embarassing sagas I think he has contributed nicely to this, the extension news seems to confirm that.

 

[FrenchRed]

Vivell who? For me, I really don't care - this should all be transparent to the fans unless they really want to know. I am not in to the cult of the CEO/CFO/Technical director et al. This is just positive PR put out by Ineos/ the club to say 'hey we are doing great' and paper over the cracks.

Uness Vivell can play up front and knock in 30 goals a season I'm really not bothered.

 

[AltiUn]

Vivell who? For me, I really don't care - this should all be transparent to the fans unless they really want to know. I am not in to the cult of the CEO/CFO/Technical director et al. This is just positive PR put out by Ineos/ the club to say 'hey we are doing great' and paper over the cracks.

Uness Vivell can play up front and knock in 30 goals a season I'm really not bothered.

Okay?

 

[Semper Fudge]

Vivell who? For me, I really don't care - this should all be transparent to the fans unless they really want to know. I am not in to the cult of the CEO/CFO/Technical director et al. This is just positive PR put out by Ineos/ the club to say 'hey we are doing great' and paper over the cracks.

Uness Vivell can play up front and knock in 30 goals a season I'm really not bothered.

Bothered enough to write an odd post in the thread about him, apparently.

 

[FrenchRed]

Bothered enough to write an odd post in the thread about him, apparently.

Not at all, I was browsing, and just don't understand the fawning over random business stuff that seem to afflict this club. If we were all silent, the Cafe would be a very desolate place.

My point is, who is the CEO or City? Arsenal? Chelsea? Burnley? Real? Barca? Who are their Directors of Recruitment, or Head Scouts? No one at any other club seems to fuss over this, only us. I find this fascination much odder than my post.

With this 'news', we are now talking about Vivell, not the team, our tactics, how bad we are, or how to fix things. It's a ploy, a diversion.

 

[The Boy]

Not at all, I was browsing, and just don't understand the fawning over random business stuff that seem to afflict this club. If we were all silent, the Cafe would be a very desolate place.

My point is, who is the CEO or City? Arsenal? Chelsea? Burnley? Real? Barca? Who are their Directors of Recruitment, or Head Scouts? No one at any other club seems to fuss over this, only us. I find this fascination much odder than my post.

With this 'news', we are now talking about Vivell, not the team, our tactics, how bad we are, or how to fix things. It's a ploy, a diversion.

I disagree, I'm extremely interested in who is carrying out these crucial roles at Brighton (who I support) our CEO and director of recruitment (head of recruitment in our case) and if they leave and move on I worry about who is taking over. The reason you may not follow these at Chelsea or Barca is because you do not support them, but supporters certainly fuss over it in every league. I have no idea who is has these roles at the majority of clubs, but I know that they're important and the structure in which they work together is arguably even more important.

On top of that your structure and personel at United have been fecking appalling for years, so getting the right people in and working ion the right way is naturally going to interest/excite people.

 

[McFred]

Not at all, I was browsing, and just don't understand the fawning over random business stuff that seem to afflict this club. If we were all silent, the Cafe would be a very desolate place.

My point is, who is the CEO or City? Arsenal? Chelsea? Burnley? Real? Barca? Who are their Directors of Recruitment, or Head Scouts? No one at any other club seems to fuss over this, only us. I find this fascination much odder than my post.

With this 'news', we are now talking about Vivell, not the team, our tactics, how bad we are, or how to fix things. It's a ploy, a diversion.

You do understand that someone has to identify and hire the manager and the players that you watch, and might be curious as to whether those people are any good at that job?

 

[JJ12]

Vivell who? For me, I really don't care - this should all be transparent to the fans unless they really want to know. I am not in to the cult of the CEO/CFO/Technical director et al. This is just positive PR put out by Ineos/ the club to say 'hey we are doing great' and paper over the cracks.

Uness Vivell can play up front and knock in 30 goals a season I'm really not bothered.

Ahh so we shouldn't have people who can identify those types of players. Honestly, this place.

 

[JJ12]

Not at all, I was browsing, and just don't understand the fawning over random business stuff that seem to afflict this club. If we were all silent, the Cafe would be a very desolate place.

My point is, who is the CEO or City? Arsenal? Chelsea? Burnley? Real? Barca? Who are their Directors of Recruitment, or Head Scouts? No one at any other club seems to fuss over this, only us. I find this fascination much odder than my post.

With this 'news', we are now talking about Vivell, not the team, our tactics, how bad we are, or how to fix things. It's a ploy, a diversion.

This is also nonsense. Arsenal's fortunes turned around with Arteta AND Edu. Just because you don't pay attention doesn't mean others don't.

 

[Bright_Eyes]

Vivell who? For me, I really don't care - this should all be transparent to the fans unless they really want to know. I am not in to the cult of the CEO/CFO/Technical director et al. This is just positive PR put out by Ineos/ the club to say 'hey we are doing great' and paper over the cracks.

Uness Vivell can play up front and knock in 30 goals a season I'm really not bothered.

Those positions are the ultimate reason why we haven't been successful in the last decade. It's not just PR.

 

[FrenchRed]

Ahh so we shouldn't have people who can identify those types of players. Honestly, this place.

I totally agree that we need them, they need to be top notch and yes, the club can succeed our fail on some of the choices. However I don’t cheerlead them, I expect them to just get on with their job and get the team performing. I find 7 pages on a non playing member of staff, that isn’t the manager, mind boggling.

I guess I come from another time when I just expect the team to perform on the pitch.

 

[TheReligion]

I totally agree that we need them, they need to be top notch and yes, the club can succeed our fail on some of the choices. However I don’t cheerlead them, I expect them to just get on with their job and get the team performing. I find 7 pages on a non playing member of staff, that isn’t the manager, mind boggling.

I guess I come from another time when I just expect the team to perform on the pitch.

I find it mind boggling that you’re that disinterested in the topic you continue to post on it!

 

[Chairman Steve]

I’m all for having as many directors as needed with regards to the football team, since the days of Ferguson and Wenger overseeing everything have died out and now the manager is a first team head coach and there’s 2-3 football directors who oversee everything else that the old school manager used to do, since managers are lucky to last more than 3 years in one place due to the money and nature of the business.

And United were way behind everyone else in that respect which is fecking incredible considering it’s one of the top 10 football clubs in the world and the likes of Brentford and Brighton were much more structured.

The likes of Vivell, Ashworth and Wilcox are the guys who will be integral to United being successful in the medium to long run.

With regards to Vivell, he seems to be doing a fine job based on the window just gone. We did not overpay for anyone and while the sales could have been for much more (maybe being greedy), it’s better to just get them out the door and their wages off the books, namely Sancho.

 

[Cantonalegod]

Vivell who? For me, I really don't care - this should all be transparent to the fans unless they really want to know. I am not in to the cult of the CEO/CFO/Technical director et al. This is just positive PR put out by Ineos/ the club to say 'hey we are doing great' and paper over the cracks.

Uness Vivell can play up front and knock in 30 goals a season I'm really not bothered.

Quite right.

All we need is a bloke on the gate selling tickets, a nice lady selling cups of tea, a guy to phone around during the week to see who's available to play the next game, who also doubles as the manager, and a bucket of water with a magic sponge in it.
That should lower the wage bill enough to get de Jong or Kane next window.

 

[AneRu]

I’m all for having as many directors as needed with regards to the football team, since the days of Ferguson and Wenger overseeing everything have died out and now the manager is a first team head coach and there’s 2-3 football directors who oversee everything else that the old school manager used to do, since managers are lucky to last more than 3 years in one place due to the money and nature of the business.

And United were way behind everyone else in that respect which is fecking incredible considering it’s one of the top 10 football clubs in the world and the likes of Brentford and Brighton were much more structured.

The likes of Vivell, Ashworth and Wilcox are the guys who will be integral to United being successful in the medium to long run.

With regards to Vivell, he seems to be doing a fine job based on the window just gone. We did not overpay for anyone and while the sales could have been for much more (maybe being greedy), it’s better to just get them out the door and their wages off the books, namely Sancho.

I don't know how people can watch Brighton, RB franchise and the disaster that the Glazers presided over and not be excited that the guys who played a part in these teams' success are in our corner leading our rebuild. I am not too excited by what's happening with the here and now signings, it's the Kones and other youth signings that have me optimistic.

 

[Semper Fudge]

I find it mind boggling that you’re that disinterested in the topic you continue to post on it!

Quite impressive isn't it?

 

[antohan]

Ahh so we shouldn't have people who can identify those types of players. Honestly, this place.

Does anyone know what he actually does?

I doubt we hired a short term scout with a fancy title.

 

[Tom Van Persie]

Not at all, I was browsing, and just don't understand the fawning over random business stuff that seem to afflict this club. If we were all silent, the Cafe would be a very desolate place.

My point is, who is the CEO or City? Arsenal? Chelsea? Burnley? Real? Barca? Who are their Directors of Recruitment, or Head Scouts? No one at any other club seems to fuss over this, only us. I find this fascination much odder than my post.

With this 'news', we are now talking about Vivell, not the team, our tactics, how bad we are, or how to fix things. It's a ploy, a diversion.

That isn't true at all. Pretty sure most City fans know who Txiki is and Arsenal fans know Edu. A lot more fans are paying attention to who directors are because they are playing a big part in success at clubs. 10+ years ago they mattered less as managers had more responsibilities when it came to transfers but these days recruitment is mostly done by the people upstairs and managers have become more like head coaches.

 

[BeforeKeanetherewasRobson]

Not at all, I was browsing, and just don't understand the fawning over random business stuff that seem to afflict this club. If we were all silent, the Cafe would be a very desolate place.

My point is, who is the CEO or City? Arsenal? Chelsea? Burnley? Real? Barca? Who are their Directors of Recruitment, or Head Scouts? No one at any other club seems to fuss over this, only us. I find this fascination much odder than my post.

With this 'news', we are now talking about Vivell, not the team, our tactics, how bad we are, or how to fix things. It's a ploy, a diversion.

You know this is a United forum yeah?

I’m pretty sure they talk about Execs on “Arses ‘r’ us” and “115 and counting” sites at times

 

[Cheimoon]

Not at all, I was browsing, and just don't understand the fawning over random business stuff that seem to afflict this club. If we were all silent, the Cafe would be a very desolate place.

My point is, who is the CEO or City? Arsenal? Chelsea? Burnley? Real? Barca? Who are their Directors of Recruitment, or Head Scouts? No one at any other club seems to fuss over this, only us. I find this fascination much odder than my post.

With this 'news', we are now talking about Vivell, not the team, our tactics, how bad we are, or how to fix things. It's a ploy, a diversion.

Of course you don't know them, you don't follow those clubs. Just as their fans likely won't know much about United's execs, except maybe when someone just happened to be in the news that week. And most fans of any club, including United, probably have no idea about their execs, cause they're not that involved in their club's affairs. But on each club's forum, their club's execs are probably discussed as much as they are here. (Well, here maybe more right now, because the club has been such a mess on the exec level.)

So the problem you're describing just doesn't exist. And if you personally are among the fans that don't care (despite knowing how much club execs influence the composition of the squad, the coaching staff, and everything around them), then the only comment anyone can have is really 'so why even open this thread?'.

 

[dubplate warrior]

Not at all, I was browsing, and just don't understand the fawning over random business stuff that seem to afflict this club. If we were all silent, the Cafe would be a very desolate place.

My point is, who is the CEO or City? Arsenal? Chelsea? Burnley? Real? Barca? Who are their Directors of Recruitment, or Head Scouts? No one at any other club seems to fuss over this, only us. I find this fascination much odder than my post.

With this 'news', we are now talking about Vivell, not the team, our tactics, how bad we are, or how to fix things. It's a ploy, a diversion.

Well run teams are successful. United have been poorly run by bankers for over a decade.

 

[golden_blunder]

Not at all, I was browsing, and just don't understand the fawning over random business stuff that seem to afflict this club. If we were all silent, the Cafe would be a very desolate place.

My point is, who is the CEO or City? Arsenal? Chelsea? Burnley? Real? Barca? Who are their Directors of Recruitment, or Head Scouts? No one at any other club seems to fuss over this, only us. I find this fascination much odder than my post.

With this 'news', we are now talking about Vivell, not the team, our tactics, how bad we are, or how to fix things. It's a ploy, a diversion.

I dare say you go on an Arsenal forum they will be talking about their own setups.
Glazers made a mess of the club, it’s natural for fans to want to talk about the new personnel. That’s what forums are for.

Btw favs here have been talking about Chelsea a lot. Barca too