Christopher Nkunku to Chelsea | Confirmed

[roonster09]

But the key and crucial point is that VVD had been a success in the Premier League at Southampton, so Liverpool were getting a known quantity for their money.

Likewise, Carrick had been a success at Spurs.

So it boils down to PL proven, rather than international caps?

Rodri had 7 caps for Spain when he was signed for City.
KdB was in Bundesliga when he was 24
B.Silva was in French league when he was 23 and had around 7 or 8 caps for NT.
Ederson had 1 or 0 caps for Brazil.
Cancelo had just 13-14 caps for NT when City signed him and he was 25. Portugal had Cedric as their RB if I'm not wrong.
Laporte got 0 caps for NT when City signed him

This is just from their present squad and everyone from outside PL.

Fabinho was 25 when Liverpool signed him, he was in French league and had 3-4 caps. He didn't even make Brazil squad, Fred made it. I don't think it's even a contest to see who was the better signing.

 

[antk]

But the key and crucial point is that VVD had been a success in the Premier League at Southampton, so Liverpool were getting a known quantity for their money.

Likewise, Carrick had been a success at Spurs.

Again, I'm sure there are going to be some exceptions that prove the rule....but you must see my general point - if Nkunku is elite, why can't he get in the French squad in his prime years?

He literally is getting in though. There's no doubt he's in the squad for the WC at this point.

 

[FrankDrebin]

He'll only be perfect for us if we develop a similar style to the one Leipzig play above. Short, crisp passing, great interchanging and constant movement and pressing.
Currently, I don't think we have a great deal of players that fit that particular style, as shown under Ralf.

 

[roonster09]

Again, I'm sure there are going to be some exceptions that prove the rule....but you must see my general point - if Nkunku is elite, why can't he get in the French squad in his prime years?

There will be exceptions to the rule but in this case the rule is just silly. We are talking about football where NT selections depends on million combinations.

I don't know whether he is elite, I don't know if he will ever be elite. It's hard to ignore the player who is having exceptional season, scoring goals, creating chances, taking on players. We also lack attackers, so when you put all that together it sounds like he is the right fit.

 

[Toni Roncoroni]

Reading that a lot of writers in here still prefer to buy the "finished" player. Nkunku is an amazing player and played really good in the Champions League as well. Don't come with stuff like "he has just played two caps" or whatever. Look where it got us i buying overprized players who were in their prime. I like the idea of buying hungry, younger players... If we do that it will help me a lot to get behind the team. And starting with Nkunku would be amazing in my opinion.

 

[Relevated]

Reading that a lot of writers in here still prefer to buy the "finished" player. Nkunku is an amazing player and played really good in the Champions League as well. Don't come with stuff like "he has just played two caps" or whatever. Look where it got us i buying overprized players who were in their prime. I like the idea of buying hungry, younger players... If we do that it will help me a lot to get behind the team. And starting with Nkunku would be amazing in my opinion.

There needs to be a balance where we also sign more senior players with a taste of winning.

 

[Toni Roncoroni]

So we'll have to find out why they loose that taste as soon as they join us...

 

[Toni Roncoroni]

There needs to be a balance where we also sign more senior players with a taste of winning.

So we'll have to find out why they loose that taste as soon as they join us...

 

[GoonerBear]

Reports of Ralf loving him and him being from Leipzig does give some credence to those rumors .
Honestly I don't know much about him but am looking forward to seeing him play in el final.
One thing I'm hoping for is his ball retention qualities, we already have a wasteful player in that regard so I don't feel we could accommodate another so I'm positively hoping that he's adroit at keeping the ball and not misplacing simple passes.

Still has a semi final to play against Rangers remember!

The good think about Nkunku is that you are almost getting 3 players in 1 with him. He can play high & wide, has now proven he can play more central in a forward position, & when Emery wanted him at Arsenal before he left PSG it was as a more orthodox midfielder he was being viewed as.

The fact he is so flexible, & more importantly can play these roles at a high level, is great for squad cover in a summer where you expect a busy summer anyway and might not get on all the positions you want in 1 window.

 

[ATXRedDevil]

Clearly not the point that's being made. If you're referring to my posts, I am talking generally about the fact that I keep seeing these huge in/out lists posted by forum members and they're so recklessly naive it's frightening.

I am talking about the people who want Shaw, Maguire, Rashford, Martial, McTominay, Fred and AWB out and then list eight players from the Eredivisie/Bundesliga as their replacements.

My point being....I think we're all in agreement that we need a new 'profile' of player in the squad, but if people think it's going to be easy to just replace 7/8 International footballers then I believe they are sorely mistaken.

Personally, I do believe the Bundesliga and Eredivisie are very weak. Does that mean we can't possibly find anybody half-decent there? No, but it means we need to tread with extreme caution.

I would also question, as is the case with the bloke we're discussing in this thread, why a forward we're talking about signing for Manchester United has managed just two caps for France?

The lad will be 25 in 5-months. He is roughly one year younger than Martial (30 caps, 56 PL goals) and one year older than Marcus Rashford (42 caps, 59 PL goals). At 24, he should be about as good as he is ever likely to be, just think about my point for a second....I am not knocking the lad but is he ever likely to be the next Ronaldo/Rooney/Lewnadoski/Benzema/Aguero/Kane etc....etc....with that profile at that age?

So again, I repeat, sure, by all means I am on-board with going for a new profile of player, and they don't all need to be superstars. However, we need to be realistic about the fact that if we want to challenge for major honours, we'll still need a huge amount of talent as well as physical attributes.

For me, as a general rule, if you're not making an impact at International level, in the PL, La Liga or Serie A or in Europe by the time you're 22/23, I do question how good you can really be at that point. Not to say that there aren't exceptions that prove the rule

Your general rule is silly. This isn’t the 90s, Bundesliga is better than Serie A, and as others have mentioned - judging based on caps is a fruitless exercise. You proved this yourself by citing Martial who has 30 caps… and is gobshite.

I’m also not sure where the idea that players are finished articles at 24/25 comes from. Late 20s/early 30s are generally considered a player’s peak years. Ronaldo, Modric, Salah and De Bruyne are just a few examples of players that moved around 24/25 y/o and kept improving.

I hope we sign both Nkunku and Antony and dump Rashford and Martial.

 

[RedRonaldo]

This is his performance against Atalanta just a few days ago, a team we know first hand are tricky to overcome. I prefer these sort of highlights videos as they give you a better reflection of his all round game. But you can see what a constant thorn in their side he is and he finishes with 2 goals and could have had a couple of assists to go with it.

He will be far better than Rashford/Martial for sure. I am in for him.

 

[DWelbz19]

There is a case for selling Bruno. Should we really stick with a CAM that doesn't dribble and doesn't really make us more dynamic. Someone like Nkunku could be a better fit.

A case which has been nailed to the ground after he signed a new deal.

 

[BenitoSTARR]

But the key and crucial point is that VVD had been a success in the Premier League at Southampton, so Liverpool were getting a known quantity for their money.

Likewise, Carrick had been a success at Spurs.

Again, I'm sure there are going to be some exceptions that prove the rule....but you must see my general point - if Nkunku is elite, why can't he get in the French squad in his prime years?

Because France don’t play high pressing high intensity football and have no plans to.

Nkunku is unquestionably a world class defender or is it attacker who knows

I understand your wider point but I just fundamentally disagree with you and you’ve really not shown any level of knowledge that would suggest your opinion is one to respect above the clear statistical profile of a world class forward player.

Simply put I think you fundamentally don’t understand player development, European football and the player we are discussing so unless this is a WUM at play I don’t see what more there is to be said.

 

[BenitoSTARR]

He'll only be perfect for us if we develop a similar style to the one Leipzig play above. Short, crisp passing, great interchanging and constant movement and pressing.
Currently, I don't think we have a great deal of players that fit that particular style, as shown under Ralf.

If only we were bringing in a coach renowned for that style of play with several years of implementation of that style of play in his locker at an elite level with a small budget.

If only that coach was capable of taking what people believed were average players and develop them into ones capable of performing in said system to an elite level.

If only….

 

[FrankDrebin]

If only we were bringing in a coach renowned for that style of play with several years of implementation of that style of play in his locker at an elite level with a small budget.

If only that coach was capable of taking what people believed were average players and develop them into ones capable of performing in said system to an elite level.

If only….

We have about 4 players potentially capable of playing that brand of football currently at the club.
Things are going to change big style though, one hopes, regarding incomings.

 

[BenitoSTARR]

We have about 4 players potentially capable of playing that brand of football currently at the club.
Things are going to change big style though, one hopes, regarding incomings.

So signing players that are statistically world class for that system would be a no brainer really.

I don’t get why people don’t like what Nkunku could offer.

 

[InfiniteBoredom]

Anyone at this point rating Serie A’s defences above the BL should not be taken seriously regarding anything football related.

Bundesliga clubs even outside of Bayern have consistently outperformed Serie A outfits in Europe, you have geriatrics like Immobile and Dzeko smashing that league year in year out. Just because a proven partnership of aging world class CBs managed to help Italy win the Euro doesn’t mean the league has anything that even vaguely resembles their famed catenaccio tradition. It’s been one of the most high scoring league in Europe for a good few years now, averaging between 2.7-3 goals per match for the last 5 seasons, with the current one continuing the trend.

 

[do.ob]

I think you guys are a bit harsh on @Lentwood, he has made some convincing points and I am now certain it would be much safer for United to sign Hugo Lloris, as he's the one keeping Nkunku out of the French team, he's got lots of caps and he's PL proven.

 

[BenitoSTARR]

I think you guys are a bit harsh on @Lentwood, he has made some convincing points and I am now certain it would be much safer for United to sign Hugo Lloris, as he's the one keeping Nkunku out of the French team, he's got lots of caps and he's PL proven.

 

[JPRouve]

I'm not really making the case for Nkunku specifically but more someone with his profile because it is what suits someone like Sancho and his dynamism is something that we have lacked in the last decade. If there is a PL proven player that has a similar style than I'm all for it, I don't know who it is though.

 

[ti vu]

I'm not really making the case for Nkunku specifically but more someone with his profile because it is what suits someone like Sancho and his dynamism is something that we have lacked in the last decade. If there is a PL proven player that has a similar style than I'm all for it, I don't know who it is though.

Elanga belongs this profile of player. Just current at much lower quality. There is a reason he gets in favor of RR. Not sure he has that potential to ever go close that level.

If we have to purchase somebody right now, I don't see anyone that potential as productive and having similar profile, especially his dynamism.

 

[Tavern in the town]

I'm not really making the case for Nkunku specifically but more someone with his profile because it is what suits someone like Sancho and his dynamism is something that we have lacked in the last decade. If there is a PL proven player that has a similar style than I'm all for it, I don't know who it is though.

Every successful team in the recent past has that goalscoring wide forward who spams runs in behind. City have Sterling, Liverpool have Mane and Salah, Bayern have Gnabry etc. We haven’t had a single player like this I think which is amazing given how essential they are. Rashford should’ve been the one for us.

 

[JPRouve]

Every successful team in the recent past has that goalscoring wide forward who spams runs in behind. City have Sterling, Liverpool have Mane and Salah, Bayern have Gnabry etc. We haven’t had a single player like this I think which is amazing given how essential they are. Rashford should’ve been the one for us.

Yup, it's a key component to all successful teams but it's not just about runs in behind, but also runs between lines and in the case of Mané and Coman it's also about running with the ball and beating opponents. Now Nkunku isn't Coman when it comes to dribbles but he is miles ahead of Bruno.

 

[do.ob]

I'm not really making the case for Nkunku specifically but more someone with his profile because it is what suits someone like Sancho and his dynamism is something that we have lacked in the last decade. If there is a PL proven player that has a similar style than I'm all for it, I don't know who it is though.

I'd argue that yet another attacking player without a fixed position is the last thing Sancho needs. He'd profit from a proper attacking full back and striker, who open up the half spaces for him. Not another player, who drags defenders there.

 

[JPRouve]

I'd argue that yet another attacking player without a fixed position is the last thing Sancho needs. He'd profit a proper attacking full back and striker, who open up the half spaces for him. Not another player, who drags defenders there.

You can have both? Or do you only see Nkunku as the main striker, I see him as a CAM or second striker?

 

[do.ob]

You can have both? Or do you only see Nkunku as the main striker, I see him as a CAM or second striker?

I assume that position is taken by Bruno.

 

[Ali Dia]

We are going to get Antony surely so this guy isn’t going to be coming too?

I like what I see though. Hard not to.

 

[JPRouve]

I assume that position is taken by Bruno.

The point was about someone like Bruno being less ideal than someone like Nkunku. Nkunku would be a better fit including for Sancho who likes to combine with players and play between the lines, on top of that he is a far better dribbler than Bruno which puts defenses under pressure. Now as @DWelbz19 pointed out, Bruno's extension make an actual transfer a bit dubious.

 

[do.ob]

The point was about someone like Bruno being less ideal than someone like Nkunku. Nkunku would be a better fit including for Sancho who likes to combine with players and play between the lines, on top of that he is a far better dribbler than Bruno which puts defenses under pressure. Now as @DWelbz19 pointed out, Bruno's extension make an actual transfer a bit dubious.

Sorry, I missed the context about being a hypothetical Bruno replacement. That would of course look like a fit to me on paper.

 

[Lentwood]

Well, let's see. As usual, people don't want to debate the general point being made and just go straight to "oh, well player x had very few international caps and they were great". Again, not the point being made (specifically) and nobody ever said there aren't exceptions that prove the general rule.

One more time, I'll say it...IF Nkuku is an elite striker, or has the potential to be one, why, when he will be 25 in 5-months, has he largely been ignored by France and is still playing for RB Leipzig? Nobody has answered that. I'm not interested in a few YouTube videos, I can make any player look good in a series of two-minute clips. It's not about 'player X must categorically have achieved Y by Z', it's about asking the very logical and reasonable question - why has this lad been ignored for nearly half of his career?

Just a reminder the point is that we are quick to write-off some of the players we have but I'm not convinced at all that some posters understand 'levels' in football when they ask for the likes of Shaw and Maguire to be sold and recommend we sign players like Timber or Nkuku or whoever.

The mistake I have made really is posting this in the Nkuku thread, so it seems like a personal attack (although I stated I had never seen him play in my first post). It's a general point about the difficulty of finding players who are better than what we have, with the budgets we have, and given the fact that all clubs will add "United tax"

 

[DWelbz19]

The point is, he’s only just blown up and massively progressed his game to the level he’s at now. He was seen as a good player before this, but this is the IT season. Player growth is not linear. Nkunku was a highly regarded talent at PSG who left for game time and has slowly been in the ascendancy ever since.

Your questions are the equivalent of asking why nobody wanted Mo Salah at the age of 23-24 when he was skulking about at Fiorentina or Roma, or why VVD was playing at clubs like Celtic and Southampton up until the age of 26. It just happens. Not everyone can instantly make it to an elite club and get caps from their first season.

 

[JPRouve]

Well, let's see. As usual, people don't want to debate the general point being made and just go straight to "oh, well player x had very few international caps and they were great". Again, not the point being made (specifically) and nobody ever said there aren't exceptions that prove the general rule.

One more time, I'll say it...IF Nkuku is an elite striker, or has the potential to be one, why, when he will be 25 in 5-months, has he largely been ignored by France and is still playing for RB Leipzig? Nobody has answered that. I'm not interested in a few YouTube videos, I can make any player look good in a series of two-minute clips. It's not about 'player X must categorically have achieved Y by Z', it's about asking the very logical and reasonable question - why has this lad been ignored for nearly half of his career?

Just a reminder the point is that we are quick to write-off some of the players we have but I'm not convinced at all that some posters understand 'levels' in football when they ask for the likes of Shaw and Maguire to be sold and recommend we sign players like Timber or Nkuku or whoever.

The mistake I have made really is posting this in the Nkuku thread, so it seems like a personal attack (although I stated I had never seen him play in my first post). It's a general point about the difficulty of finding players who are better than what we have, with the budgets we have, and given the fact that all clubs will add "United tax"

People have addressed your points, international caps are a dumb way to judge anything, France senior team didn't need to add a CAM. But it also coincides with a more attacking role played with Leipzig and France stabilizing his system with three central attacking players in a 3412. He hasn't been ignored for half of his career, he was one of the PSG young talented players that were used as squad players, then he moved to Leipzig who are a CL club and one of the top german teams, he immediately showed why he was rated and only confirmed it every seasons.

Also being a starter at a club like Leipzig between 21 and 24 years old is excellent, the way you put it one would think that he is playing for a nothing team.

 

[do.ob]

Well, let's see. As usual, people don't want to debate the general point being made and just go straight to "oh, well player x had very few international caps and they were great". Again, not the point being made (specifically) and nobody ever said there aren't exceptions that prove the general rule.

One more time, I'll say it...IF Nkuku is an elite striker, or has the potential to be one, why, when he will be 25 in 5-months, has he largely been ignored by France and is still playing for RB Leipzig? Nobody has answered that. I'm not interested in a few YouTube videos, I can make any player look good in a series of two-minute clips. It's not about 'player X must categorically have achieved Y by Z', it's about asking the very logical and reasonable question - why has this lad been ignored for nearly half of his career?

Just a reminder the point is that we are quick to write-off some of the players we have but I'm not convinced at all that some posters understand 'levels' in football when they ask for the likes of Shaw and Maguire to be sold and recommend we sign players like Timber or Nkuku or whoever.

The mistake I have made really is posting this in the Nkuku thread, so it seems like a personal attack (although I stated I had never seen him play in my first post). It's a general point about the difficulty of finding players who are better than what we have, with the budgets we have, and given the fact that all clubs will add "United tax"

Maybe that's because you are operating under the assumption that it's reasonable to discuss (and reject) a player who you have never seen play for even a minute, whose proper position you don't even know?

 

[Red the Bear]

Still has a semi final to play against Rangers remember!

The good think about Nkunku is that you are almost getting 3 players in 1 with him. He can play high & wide, has now proven he can play more central in a forward position, & when Emery wanted him at Arsenal before he left PSG it was as a more orthodox midfielder he was being viewed as.

The fact he is so flexible, & more importantly can play these roles at a high level, is great for squad cover in a summer where you expect a busy summer anyway and might not get on all the positions you want in 1 window.

Thanks for the the post, and yeah I was getting a bit ahead if myself there but its not that big of a leap to already book the ticket for the Germans
And you lot were certainly a bit screwed over there under unai , to get pepe instead of this lad must hurt a bit.

 

[Smores]

The point is, he’s only just blown up and massively progressed his game to the level he’s at now. He was seen as a good player before this, but this is the IT season. Player growth is not linear. Nkunku was a highly regarded talent at PSG who left for game time and has slowly been in the ascendancy ever since.

Your questions are the equivalent of asking why nobody wanted Mo Salah at the age of 23-24 when he was skulking about at Fiorentina or Roma, or why VVD was playing at clubs like Celtic and Southampton up until the age of 26. It just happens. Not everyone can instantly make it to an elite club and get caps from their first season.

It's the exact age we should be signing players. Most players step up around the 24-26 mark. Those who do it 2-3 years earlier are the exception and they end up being a lot more costly as hyped wonderkids.

 

[Harry190]

In the Champions League games, against City and PSG, he was always the standout player and a pain in the bum to play against if it counts for anything. And if I recall correctly, he was also very good against Liverpool last year.

 

[Lentwood]

Maybe that's because you are operating under the assumption that it's reasonable to discuss (and reject) a player who you have never seen play for even a minute, whose proper position you don't even know?

It's not about rejecting Nkuku specifically. Go through this forum now and see how many lists there are of "United must sign these 5 players"....and they are almost all exclusively hipster signings from the Eredivisie, Ligue Un and the Bundesliga.

Now, sure, there must be currently 5-10 players in each of those leagues who are yet to 'explode' and will become fantastic players. However, most of the players touted as 'must-signs' by this forum will have middling to average careers.

You see it all the time, go back five years, trawl through the swathes of 'must-sign' lists people put together and see how many end up producing even one world-class player.

As I said, the mistake I made was putting this here, so it looks like a specific attack on one player. It's not an attack on one player, I could just as easily have put this in the Timber thread, or Antony thread. It's an attack on the idea that we can just fill the side with lads from the European hipster leagues and we'll suddenly be fine next season.

Going back to my concern, and the reason I posted in the first place....we have Ralf Rangnick and Erik ten Haag now setting part of the agenda on transfers. I am slightly worried that they might end up filling the squad with mediocre players who have been playing almost exclusively at a lower level. Although, Rangnick himself did say recently the Bundesliga is an inferior league.

 

[bucky]

It's not about rejecting Nkuku specifically. Go through this forum now and see how many lists there are of "United must sign these 5 players"....and they are almost all exclusively hipster signings from the Eredivisie, Ligue Un and the Bundesliga.

Now, sure, there must be currently 5-10 players in each of those leagues who are yet to 'explode' and will become fantastic players. However, most of the players touted as 'must-signs' by this forum will have middling to average careers.

You see it all the time, go back five years, trawl through the swathes of 'must-sign' lists people put together and see how many end up producing even one world-class player.

As I said, the mistake I made was putting this here, so it looks like a specific attack on one player. It's not an attack on one player, I could just as easily have put this in the Timber thread, or Antony thread. It's an attack on the idea that we can just fill the side with lads from the European hipster leagues and we'll suddenly be fine next season.

Going back to my concern, and the reason I posted in the first place....we have Ralf Rangnick and Erik ten Haag now setting part of the agenda on transfers. I am slightly worried that they might end up filling the squad with mediocre players who have been playing almost exclusively at a lower level. Although, Rangnick himself did say recently the Bundesliga is an inferior league.

European hipster leagues, how is anyone supposed to take you seriously?! And our current squad isn't filled with mediocre players, right?!

 

[Lentwood]

European hipster leagues, how is anyone supposed to take you seriously?! And our current squad isn't filled with mediocre players, right?!

No, that's my point - it's posts like this I am referring to specifically.

Our squad is not full of "mediocre" players, it's full of very, very good players who fall just short of being elite.

 

[bucky]

No, that's my point - it's posts like this I am referring to specifically.

Our squad is not full of "mediocre" players, it's full of very, very good players who fall just short of being elite.

I don't care. If you post shite, you get called out. As if other leagues are irrelevant and only the EPL matters. One of the dumbest takes that I've read on here recently.