I'm afraid we'll have to disagree on this. Our defence won't be weak if smalling leaves (not that I want him to) and ozil would make us a far better side.
No, Jones and Bailly are our first choice centre backs. If Bailly hadn't been injured then smalling would have played far less.
Wow you guys really are blinded by Smalling. Or am I being too harsh?!
Exactly this!!
Very underrated player IMO and he would massively strengthen any other PL team's defence so we should not sell even though we have plenty of cover at CB and we need to find an opening for Tuanzebe at some point. A really big offer might be tempting I suppose.
To be honest I think he is just as good as VVD. So I would not want to get rid of such a player because it would cost a lot to replace.
He's our third choice centre half, let's not get carried away.
I wouldn't agree with this to be honest, I think our goals against column is flattered by having DDG between the sticks, who in my honest opinion is the very best keeper in the World.
I think Bailly has great potential, Shaw too, and Valencia & Young are good old stalwarts, but I really don't think any of our other defenders are truly outstanding, none of them that I'd be gutted to lose, and I don't think it takes much imagination to see better individuals out there.
If we were to get a really good offer for Smalling, Id consider it very seriously.
He's our first CB sub when anyone of the 2 main ones (Bailly and Jones) get injured. He's more trustful at the moment than Rojo and Lindelof tbh. He has his flaws but still a very good box defender.
OK. This is getting a bit silly. Yes, he's a good defender but he's had great spells, not great seasons. He's reached his ceiling and is, at best, third choice. If we want to improve, we can't be so sentimental.
In defense we have two untouchables in Tony and Bailly. Then, a level below, there is Jones, possibly Shaw too if he keeps his form until the end of the season. Everyone else can be improved upon.
He's a better defender than VVD, but much worse on the ball. He's not worth £75m, but I wouldn't want us selling him for less than £35m in this current market.
I would like him at Bayern as a CD backup ...
No it is not getting silly. VVD is a good defender with great spells; there is next to no indication that he is at the highest level and that is the exact same with Smalling.
I think you are underrating Smalling and overrating VVD. If VVD was in our team I would still pick Jones and Bailly over him and he would be 3rd choice.
But he's been injured, and Jones spends a lot of time on the sidelines for the same reasons so Smalling has remained our most consistent CB just like he was under LVG. Those players can't stay fit long enough so it doesn't matter whether they would've played or not. Smalling has got more minutes under his belt and United still have the joint best defensive record in the league. Sorry, I strongly doubt Mourinho will sell him anytime soon.
Do you think we play in the semi-final of the CL or against a top club every other week? Do you seriously think that every single squad member has to be World class? Not a single club, be it, PSG, Madrid, Bayern or Barcelona attain this mythical feat of every single player in their squad being world class. Smalling is a very good squad player and he has held his own this year.
Harry Maguire, smh
No we don’t play them every week, we only play against them every once in a while and it’s usually one of the most important games of our season and when we do we need to be able to compete, and we cannot do that with players like Smalling. If we’re going to approach the competition woth mediocre players we’re going to become a mediocre team, we’ll be the next Arsenal.
Smalling is our regular centre back!!! He's playing ahead of Rojo & Lindelof for a reason mate. We just signed bloody Sanchez to improve our attack, and you want to ruin our defense without replacement so we can add another quality in our attack?
Who then? Who would you jettison Smalling and Jones for? Saturday a perfect illustration of their worth. This line of argument has been going on a long time in here but I've yet to be convinced that there are truly better centre back options out there. Would you swap them for any of our rivals centre-halves? Van Dijk has a way to go to prove himself at the top level but admittedly has potential. Alderweireld when fit maybe. Or another in the long line of vaunted foreigners that shine brightly in the firmament of Italian or Spanish football before ending up with Rubin Kazan or wherever. Another Mangala or Benatia or whoever. Half of this place wanted Otamendi when he was flying for Valencia. You can count the top class, consistent centre-backs on the fingers of one hand. Jones and Smalling will do me.
I disagree, but fair enough mate. To be honest, I should have made the point without reference to your comment on VVD. It still stands. I don't think he's a great defender, but he is good. I think we need to be more ruthless in our efforts to improve. Selling him now would be problematic, but I'm not married to the idea of keeping him here. And I feel the same about maybe 5-6 other players too. There is a huge margin for improvement in our squad.
I mean a pile of ye wanted to get rid of Mike for Michael Keane during the Summer for Christ's sake.
Just to point out he’s had more starts this season than any of our other defenders. Only players to have more starts. De gea, matic and lukaku. Behind bailly our best CB imo. One thing is for sure though he’s been an important player for us this year.
But that's far from the reality because Bailly has been hurt. Rojo was hurt last year and just made a comeback this year then became hurt again.
United cannot sell any players without proper replacements and hoping a player will come isn't a very good strategy. Mourinho targeted Lindelof and did not expect him to play a large role this season (which he has not). Jones and Bailly seemed to be the preferred first choice CBs, but they both got injured and Smalling has been a rock more times than not this year.
Selling Mike would be straight stupid at this moment in time.
If you truly truly meant, then there's at least 3, maybe 4 CBs to chop before we even get to look at Smalling. Blind, Rojo, Lindelof are not of his level. Lindelof might become better in the future (I have severe doubts), but he certainly is not at the moment. And Jones is neither a better defender nor is he anywhere near reliable in terms of fitness which causes problems every year.
Unless we understand the word ruthless differently.
How are you going to get a better 'fill-in' centre back than Smalling? He is there because he is willing to play when asked and is a good defender. I'm perfectly fine with having Jones, Bailly, Smalling, Rojo and Lindelof as our centre backs.
I can't help but think that some want us to turn into Barcelona mk-II, so they want to get rid of Smalling because he's not a good passer. He's a box defender, good 1v1 and important on set pieces, that type of defender is important to have in the PL.
I would sell, but it depends on the money offered. 35M+ seems a good deal to me, but it depends on whether jose thinks that is sufficient 'reward' to compensate for the 'risk' of loosing him.
Bailley and Jones are first choice in my view. Smalling is an athletic lad with a good attitude, but his technical limitations and tendency to pull/ push are well known. As he ages, he could go from a good prem defender to a decent championship player in a short time.
Although he is on better form than rojo and Victor L at the moment, he is no better than them. Meanwhile I think the likes of tunzebe and TFM are going to surpass him. If we sold him, we'd still have 4 centre backs to choose from this season, which is sufficient in my view (jones, rojo, Victor L and Tunzebe).
In terms of the 'risk I mentioned. We'd be selling smalling to a rival (albeit dimished), while the backups mentioned may perform worse.
As I said at the start, I think it's worth a risk if we get 35 to even 50m at a push. Don't think jose is that big a risk taker, so I think smalling will be here until the summer at the mimimum.
PS - if we did sell I'd certainly wish him well. Put in some good performances for us over the years and has a good attitude. I just don't think he is the right player for a team with world class ambitions.
Bailley and Jones are first choice in my view. Smalling is an athletic lad with a good attitude, but his technical limitations and tendency to pull/ push are well known. As he ages, he could go from a good prem defender to a decent championship player in a short time.
Although he is on better form than rojo and Victor L at the moment, he is no better than them. Meanwhile I think the likes of tunzebe and TFM are going to surpass him. If we sold him, we'd still have 4 centre backs to choose from this season, which is sufficient in my view (jones, rojo, Victor L and Tunzebe).
In terms of the 'risk I mentioned. We'd be selling smalling to a rival (albeit dimished), while the backups mentioned may perform worse.
As I said at the start, I think it's worth a risk if we get 35 to even 50m at a push. Don't think jose is that big a risk taker, so I think smalling will be here until the summer at the mimimum.
PS - if we did sell I'd certainly wish him well. Put in some good performances for us over the years and has a good attitude. I just don't think he is the right player for a team with world class ambitions.
If we were to improve upon our central defensive options (which I'd think we'd do if we sold Smalling) then I could see Lindelof and Jones being the back up options. Blind and Darmian are surely off in the summer. Of course, Jones' injury record is a major concern.
Would expect us to sell one of Rojo/Smalling/Jones. If we'd sell two of those, we'd surely be looking to get one in. That's where an improvement can be made.
Would be happy with any two of Smalling/Rojo/Lindelof/Jones as 3rd and 4th choice going forward.
I'm not saying we should definitely sell Smalling, just that I'm not totally closed to the idea. And yes, I don't rate him as high as you. Fair enough.
Smalling has played in more big games than any of our other CBs including Jones. He played the full 90 in our biggest and most important game since the Fergie era, the EL final last season and he kept the speedy and youthful Ajax forwards out. Smalling has also scored goals against City and Chelsea in the past in United wins. Mediocre my ass
I'd sell only if we get someone else in and I wouldn't let him go to a rival. He's probably the least capable of our defenders, assuming Lindelof turns out to be good, but hes a great squad option and the others can't stay fit.
Please provide a jot of evidence to enlighten all of us into Jose' ideas on his team. As so far Smalling is getting played generally when fit. Looks like your bias opinion to me, with no signs of any factual evidence.
Honestly not surprised with links away. He's an attainable player, he's a good CB so a big club would want him. We should be aiming higher but having him is not a bad thing.
No way he's going to leage in the next 10 days.
No way he's going to leage in the next 10 days.
Would not mind.
Jose knew defenders, and if we sell him it won't mean we will not buy a better defender, or perhaps axel is rocking the reserves and Jose think he's ready.
Jose knew defenders, and if we sell him it won't mean we will not buy a better defender, or perhaps axel is rocking the reserves and Jose think he's ready.
The other thing I should have said in my earlier post is that VAR, is going to have a very negative impact on smalling. He is a notorious shirt grabber and these incidents are likely to get picked up with the new tech.
Combined with the serious consequences of him loosing his athleticism with the onset of his 30s (a huge part of his game), smalling could really decline in quality in the next 1-3 seasons.
If we are looking to cash in, now or the summer would be a good time
Combined with the serious consequences of him loosing his athleticism with the onset of his 30s (a huge part of his game), smalling could really decline in quality in the next 1-3 seasons.
If we are looking to cash in, now or the summer would be a good time
Arsenal
Straight swap for Harry Maguire please. We sell a dud and get a ball playing tank (194cm, 100kg) in return
Decent shout, but Maguire needs to play regularly, and currently isn’t better than Jones or Bailly when fit; Smalling is the perfect third choice, knows the club inside out almost 8 years into his United career, generally solid with competent feet and aerially immense. You sense he’ll be happy to continue in that default first back-up option, as he’ll see a lot of the pitch given how fragile Bailly and Jones can be.
If it ain’t broke...
Crazy how players just opt to settle for competence established in their youth - I read something a few weeks ago about Jones admiring John Terry’s ability to switch play with either foot - practice then! It’s their job, it’s no real hardship to stay on the training pitch for a few extra hours with a coach or willing youth players refining your kicking technique and passing range. Smalling isn’t as bad as most make out and it’s more down to his physique, but I do feel he could definitely improve it with more dedication.
so 3rd choice then.
Even then I rate Rojo and Lindeloff higher.
No. It's not called 3rd choice, because we're not playing with one CB! He's the first defender on the bench. When one of Bailly or Jones get injured he's first one to come and replace him.
Rojo form is yet to be judged after returning from injury and he hasn't been the same since then. Lindelof is still in his first season in the league. At the moment Smalling, with any faults you can say about him, is far more trustable and reliable than both and he has been very reliable for us this whole season.
Straight swap for Ozil and he's yours.
Our best central defender, and only one with a brain who does not try to terminate everything he sees in front of him. Arsenal can go feck off.
'our best defender'
give yourself a shake!
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/chris-smalling-2017-18-performances.430555/page-35#post-21934756
I agree. I think he, more so than Jones (even if Fergie disagrees), could have been a defender in that Rio, Vida class. But he hasn't kicked on enough, i don't know why but it is as you say. He is provokingly underrated on this forum i think, his name don't ring out.
Now how'd you figure that?
Axel has only played 180 minutes of u23 football all season.