Maybe because not all chances are equal and its a flawed stat to look at in this way.
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They're both English so they both look the same?
You just need to look at the top posters in this thread to know that's a load of rubbish.
Then go and see who is posting in the Lindelof and Maguire threads to confirm it.
Smalling has a small but incredibly loud fan club who have only gotten louder since he left.
You just need to look at the top posters in this thread to know that's a load of rubbish.
Then go and see who is posting in the Lindelof and Maguire threads to confirm it.
Smalling has a small but incredibly loud fan club who have only gotten louder since he left.
Ahh, the old "you reply to lots of posts you dont agree with, bringing common sense and stats into it. Thats bad"
Its almost as if the people spending the most time posting in those threads are the ones who are also spending the most time analyzing the players performances during games, because they actually care about the subject and arent posting posts their memebrain thought of in 3 seconds.
The reason I have a lot of posts in the Smalling thread for example is because I have a good argument for all the silly suggestions many many different posters make about Smalling not being a good player. 1 person replies to tens of people or more who say something silly. Who is going to have more posts? Pretty obvious. Also, it speaks for how good someone's argument is if they post once or twice and when someone disagrees with them and provides an argument they go quiet because they have no good counter argument to it.
In the Lindelof thread its the same thing, but on the other side of things. Instead of silly posts about Smalling being poor, we have lots of hype posts about Lindelof doing well despite a lot of poor performances this season, or the first half of last season. Again, take the time to review things and come up with a reasonable argument and the people who reply a lot are the ones who care and are at least trying to put time and effort into seeing whats really going on with our players. Whereas the couple of people who post random things (good or bad) and then disappear are the ones who really dont care and just felt like posting something then disappearing without substantiating the post.
Absolutely quality, would sign him for 70m.
Oh wait, He's free!
Oh wait, He's free!
#NotForEveryone
The vast majority of his 'fan club' simply state he is better than the rest of the defenders we have (Maguire is now our best overall defender, but Smalling is still our best defensively). I'm pretty sure even Ekeke has said that he has his weaknesses and if we made the right signings we could do better. It's just that getting those right signings are a lot harder than his 'haters' make out. The fact that we've spent close to £200m over the years on a bunch of different defenders and he should arguably still be in our starting 11 says it all.
You just need to look at the top posters in this thread to know that's a load of rubbish.
Then go and see who is posting in the Lindelof and Maguire threads to confirm it.
Smalling has a small but incredibly loud fan club who have only gotten louder since he left.
I fully agree that there's only a small group who constantly defend a lot of the over-the-top criticism. But over the years there's been quite a few discussions about our defence as a whole, and the majority pretty much always end up agreeing that our strongest defence was Smalling + somebody else.
'Haters' - He's absolute shit, no better than Jones and Rojo (some say he's worse), Championship level defender, will give away regular penalties because of his grabbing in the box, gives the ball away constantly, is a big reason for our lack of attacking thrust as we can't play out from the back, etc. Hell, I've seen numerous people try to claim that he's slow.
'Fan club' - He's our best defender and has been for 5-6 years. Has given one penalty for grabbing in his entire career, and so far all the evidence shows that VAR will barely change that (I personally expect it'll increase very slightly, so maybe another three or so throughout the rest of his career). He's annoyingly weak on the ball, but he realises that and plays it safe so he rarely actually loses it. Could be improved and it's actually annoying that we haven't, but that's the reality of it so no point pretending it's not.
That's basically what it boils down to. Which one sounds more like it's being more realistic?
Yes. If you were actually around people were posting all of Maguire's mistakes last season on here. Maybe you were in a coma
Maybe I was in a coma
However I tend to watch football rather than read people’s opinions of players on here and take them as gospel..
Maybe I was in a coma
However I tend to watch football rather than read people’s opinions of players on here and take them as gospel..
Great. You'll learn nothing staying in your own bubble.
How many Leicester matches did you watch last season? 20? 30?
About 10. Plus his games for England. How many England caps did Smalling get again last year?
Oh and my bubbles lovely and warm thanks. You are very active on the forum today.. shouldn’t you be in school?
So you're an expert after 10 games, got it. You obviously know more than Leicester fans, so you dont need to get their input on a forum. Look at you the smartest football fan in the world
Barcelona B?
The English?
I'm English, and all I care about with players is what they can do for utd.
Hmm..Yeah, no matter what happens here on in, hes done well, brought some pride back to the National team, and could have some great players coming through if they can get game time with their clubs.
He will always be that prick who slid in on Keane to me though
Thanks for going back through my posts, I'm honoured. But I'm really no sure that changes anything. Do I want England to do well? Sure
Do I care about whether a player plays for England or not? Not really. I didnt give a shit when Bruce couldnt get a game for them, he was great for us. I didnt care when Cole was getting very rare appearances but rattling in a ton of goals for us. I didnt care when Scholes was shifted to the left for England to accommodate other players, he was brilliant for us. Rojo gets plenty of game time for Argentina, should we base our defence around him as hes still earning caps? De Gea has had a rocky road with Spain but would we want to swap him out when he was? We all knew he was the best keeper in the world at the time.
Basically, who gives a shit about international caps? Its what they can do for Utd I care about.
2 quotes from you just in your last couple of forum posts ‘who gives a feck about England?’ ‘Do I want England to do well? Sure’
Have a good day old man.
He is composed, physically sharp, tactically mature and not so prone to blunders. Another player who was scapegoated at United, it seems.
2 quotes from you just in your last couple of forum posts ‘who gives a feck about England?’ ‘Do I want England to do well? Sure’
Have a good day old man.
Sorry. Maybe wording could be better. Who gives a feck about who England pick would be better?
Someone help me out here but, for loans like the one Smalling is on, a year long loan with a fee, aren't they always with no option to recall?
Keep seeing posts that we should recall him in January. Even if we could, think that while Ole is here, that ship has pretty much sailed. He set his stall out to be Southgate lite. CBs that are good on the ball first and foremost. He saw Smalling last year, seemed to have his mind made up about him from the off, he even only let him in the squad once injuries happened. Per usual though, Smalling kept his place over others because he is a very good defender.
Going into this season, Ole went back to his original thinking. No way Ole brings him back to be ahead of Lindelof despite the apparent issues with the current pairing. The long term vision comes first for him.
We won't see Smalling line up for United again. He'll be sold either to Roma or another club next season.
Keep seeing posts that we should recall him in January. Even if we could, think that while Ole is here, that ship has pretty much sailed. He set his stall out to be Southgate lite. CBs that are good on the ball first and foremost. He saw Smalling last year, seemed to have his mind made up about him from the off, he even only let him in the squad once injuries happened. Per usual though, Smalling kept his place over others because he is a very good defender.
Going into this season, Ole went back to his original thinking. No way Ole brings him back to be ahead of Lindelof despite the apparent issues with the current pairing. The long term vision comes first for him.
We won't see Smalling line up for United again. He'll be sold either to Roma or another club next season.
We spent £80 million on Maguire, a defender, to replace Lukaku, our top striker.
I'm sure the club could recall him, but they'd have to pay Roma compensation in return. We'd be paying them for our own player, which would make Ole and co look monumentally stupid
It must feel at home for Smalling in Serie A. Like a fish in water.
Young people didn''t get a chance to see what a real defending look like, when Serie A at their best at late 80's and 90s. That's why some of them can't appreciate Smalling.
You forgot the part where he was constantly getting nose bleeds everytime he went near the halfway line.
He is bang average as a defender.
And rightly so.
It seems Utd and Roma are in talks for selling him for good in January already?
but... the trick is to play the personnel at their strength, not exposing their flaws? Roma is packed in the midfield and their defensive line stays low, so that he is simply asked to defend and he is doing it well
You are a bang average judge of talent.
Oh no our best defender wasn't great at going past the half way line, thats where all the best defending is do... oh wait thats the midfield and attack's job
I think he gets a bad rep due to looking ungainly with the ball at his feet, but he has consistently been our best pure defender over the last 6 or so 7 years. 300 games for United in that time span is no joke. I've always thought his level at just defending has always been really high, a bit like Vidic, so I'm not surprised to see him do well in Italy.
But I do think it's better for him in Roma play style wise then here. Our midfield doesn't do much, requiring the CBs to push forward with the ball. Maguire and Lindelof do that, though obviously Lindelof defensively is a bit hit and miss. Having Smalling back would make us defensively more sound, but people would continue to have nose bleeds over his ball playing skills. Unlike with Vidic, Scholes Carrick and Giggs in midfield we have not.
I watched Roma against Napoli and they pack their midfield which suits Smalling well I think. He's physically in very good shape so if they do sign him they'll gets good 4 years at least out of him.
But I do think it's better for him in Roma play style wise then here. Our midfield doesn't do much, requiring the CBs to push forward with the ball. Maguire and Lindelof do that, though obviously Lindelof defensively is a bit hit and miss. Having Smalling back would make us defensively more sound, but people would continue to have nose bleeds over his ball playing skills. Unlike with Vidic, Scholes Carrick and Giggs in midfield we have not.
I watched Roma against Napoli and they pack their midfield which suits Smalling well I think. He's physically in very good shape so if they do sign him they'll gets good 4 years at least out of him.
Im not entirely sure about that but one thing Smalling does have a problem with is his positioning.
Can someone upload 5 examples of this happening? I hear it said all the time but just don’t see any progressive ball playing skills. I remember the one game last season I think Brighton or someone where he drove with the ball and played a nice pass. More time than not I see him giving the ball to AWB or Maguire. Considering we’re sacrificing Aerial ability and defensive solidarity with him in there I’d expect a bit more “ball playing skills”
How about looking at the last match? You will find Lindelof both going forward with the ball to deliver a good pass, as well as him playing through their line a few times.
I think this is part of the problem. People confusing their own observations, or lack of, with reality.
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Lindelof actually had decent game against Bournemouth in playing out the back, the midfield and attack just were not great though once they received the ball. He does make good passes and he looks elegant on the ball. However, on the flip side, when it comes to the main job of defending, at the moment at least he has the opposite effect, can look scared or out of sorts.
Looks being the operative keyword. Lindelof has shown to lose headers and duels, so right now he's got a rep of looking weak. On the flip side, Smalling has always looked ungainly on the ball and there is that infamous gif of him doing a walk around the ball just to pass it, he has just had this rep of being completely crap on the ball. Just like Lindelof is not really that weak defensively, Smalling has never been that bad on the ball. He has often shown capacity to carry the ball forward. but, does have the weakness of not possessing thread the needle passes.
Don't think any team really needs 2 CBs that are good on the ball and even if they do, it should never be having one that is not yet that great defensively.
There's a rumour today that we will block a 25 million January sale for Rojo because of his 'resurgence in form'
Loaning Rojo and keeping Smalling might have been a better option however I can see why it didn't happen.
Well that’s AWB’s United career over then.
Edit: and if you’re saying Smalling can’t play in a high line:
- He did so with great success under LvG.
- He’s far better equipped to do so than Maguire.
- When are we going to play a high line?
100% correct. Casual football watchers turned him into a meme. "Chuckle brothers", "I'm Chris Smalling and I'm Phil Jones" etc. Most just went along with it for laughs and it eventually just became the accepted view. Why would a players own support ridicule him if it wasn't true at the end of the day? It's because we haven't been winning and one of the least stylish players in the squad was a convenient scapegoat for an entitled fanbase.
For a long time he was described as really mistake prone, despite rarely making mistakes. When that started to look a bit silly he became the defender who's always pulling shirts and giving away penalties, despite rarely giving away penalties or even getting booked. When that started to look stupid he became the defender who can't pass the ball and ruins our style of play, despite the fact that the quality of the players in front of him was the main reason for our football being shite. He's plays the same simple enough passes the worked absolutely fine for someone like Vidic throughout his career. But they suddenly started pretending we'd be playing like a Guardiola team if only our 2 CBs could pass like midfielders. There was always a new criticism designed to maintain his status as a "Chuckle brother"
It's all just stupidity. He's a really good defender and has been for years. It was completely inevitable that once he got out of the echo chamber he would be considered a quality player. He always has been one.
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