[RedEM10]

Bit of a mixed bag with Smalling. Overall he had a very good game against 2 big powerful forwards. But ultimately his 2 mistakes were 2 goals. When he has Benteke at the egde of the area he has got to show him down the line on his left foot completely. Would result in Benteke turning back to the left back at best. And the quick free quick he was caught sleeping for a split second and its just too late to get back in and cover.

On the flip side, he was phenomenal in the air. Gave away very little fouls in comparison to Lindelof. Brilliant header to get us back in the game (Looked simple but that was a great header).

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Bit of a mixed bag with Smalling. Overall he had a very good game against 2 big powerful forwards. But ultimately his 2 mistakes were 2 goals. When he has Benteke at the egde of the area he has got to show him down the line on his left foot completely. Would result in Benteke turning back to the left back at best. And the quick free quick he was caught sleeping for a split second and its just too late to get back in and cover.

On the flip side, he was phenomenal in the air. Gave away very little fouls in comparison to Lindelof. Brilliant header to get us back in the game (Looked simple but that was a great header).

Benteke is left-footed though?

 

[roonster09]

Benteke is left-footed though?

Benteke is right footed.

 

[RedEM10]

Benteke is left-footed though?

Right footed as far as im aware

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Right footed as far as im aware

If he is then yeah, that was a very average bit of defending. Great goal though, so all is forgiven

 

[Kostov]

Its not like Rio or Vidic were never skinned by top strikers or even donkeys before. We still have the best defense in the league and the most clean sheets, relax.

It's not about how many times they were skinned, Rio and Vidic would never allow to be made fools by players like Benteke and Sorloth. Smalling and Lindelof were all over the place. Smalling was much better than Lindelof and improved in the second half, but let's not pretend he had a good game. His goal may mask some of it, but as a senior CB at the club he is not good enough.

If this is the standard for a Manchester United CB, than feck me, we deserve what we are getting.

 

[MadMike]

I think defensively he's the best we have at the club. Wish he could be more intelligent and better on the ball. He just loses his head and seems to be scared even when he has so much space in front. Can't wait to give away the ball to a teammate. He's either mentally weak (fear) or just bad at playing football with his feet.

That's all fair. We all know his ball possession is not his strong suit at all. Very unlikely to improve since he's 28(?) now. But like you said, defensively he's probably the best at the club with a niche for being the best in aerial duels by a huge margin to all the rest. And the most reliable in terms of fitness.

I just wish people got off his back a bit. He's not the reason we're not coherent in attack and in our playstyle. There's no one player we'll add to this team, be it a CM or a CB that will magically make us title contenders. Our football should have more of an identity with the current crop of players. There's enough talent. People are aggressively scapegoating him for pretty much everything, from every goal that we concede to how we play our football. As if without Smalling in the team we turn into Barca from 2010. He's not allowed any mistakes. That's why certain posters, like me, feel they have to stick up for him. His contribution to our team is very largely positive, yet every single game his thread comes up first with people shitting on him. There's no respite.

 

[VanGaalEra]

Good header for the first goal.

 

[Kostov]

For me this is pretty clear: See picture below. When the ball is played out towards Benteke it's rolling towards the corner flag, Smalling needs to move in closer and cut off the option for Benteke to bring it over to his right and into the danger area.

Instead of going in closer, smalling positions himself so that Benteke can either go down towards the line for a cross, or shift it over on his right and go inwards towards goal:
The latter is problematic because:
- It opens up space out wide for someone overlapping
- Benteke will move closer to goal, opening for a pass or an attempted shot from just outside the box.

In the end he opts for the easy pass to Townsend and yes it goes via Lindy, but it's difficult to say if De Gea had saved it anyway.

I'm not sure why anyone would describe this as fine defending.

Amusingly enough, Valencia is hardly doing a fine job defending here either. He runs in far past Smalling and just keeps his distance

In that last screenshot you can actually see how Smalling wasn't even close enough to Benteke, he just let him run around our box so he can put a pass through the middle. It's mostly Pogba's fault for not tracking the runner, but that was very poor from Smalling in my opinion.

 

[Web of Bissaka]

Isn't that because it's near/around the box, so Smalling had to hold his press and his tackles. Get too close and they could start conning ref to give pen or easy free kicks.

Should've defend better before reaching that point and let Benteke to the corner flag or down the line, since Smalling can match his pace.

 

[Di Maria's angel]

I really don't think he was at fault for the second goal. I don't understand quick free kicks and the inconsistency displayed by referees when a team takes one. Sometimes they stop the FK and other times they allow it, for no fecking reason. Either take them out or show some fecking consistency.

 

[SteveW]

That's all fair. We all know his ball possession is not his strong suit at all. Very unlikely to improve since he's 28(?) now. But like you said, defensively he's probably the best at the club with a niche for being the best in aerial duels by a huge margin to all the rest. And the most reliable in terms of fitness.

I just wish people got off his back a bit. He's not the reason we're not coherent in attack and in our playstyle. There's no one player we'll add to this team, be it a CM or a CB that will magically make us title contenders. Our football should have more of an identity with the current crop of players. There's enough talent. People are aggressively scapegoating him for pretty much everything, from every goal that we concede to how we play our football. As if without Smalling in the team we turn into Barca from 2010. He's not allowed any mistakes. That's why certain posters, like me, feel they have to stick up for him. His contribution to our team is very largely positive, yet every single game his thread comes up first with people shitting on him. There's no respite.

100% correct

 

[villain]

That's all fair. We all know his ball possession is not his strong suit at all. Very unlikely to improve since he's 28(?) now. But like you said, defensively he's probably the best at the club with a niche for being the best in aerial duels by a huge margin to all the rest. And the most reliable in terms of fitness.

I just wish people got off his back a bit. He's not the reason we're not coherent in attack and in our playstyle. There's no one player we'll add to this team, be it a CM or a CB that will magically make us title contenders. Our football should have more of an identity with the current crop of players. There's enough talent. People are aggressively scapegoating him for pretty much everything, from every goal that we concede to how we play our football. As if without Smalling in the team we turn into Barca from 2010. He's not allowed any mistakes. That's why certain posters, like me, feel they have to stick up for him. His contribution to our team is very largely positive, yet every single game his thread comes up first with people shitting on him. There's no respite.

Yep, well said, sums up my feelings on the matter too.
He's not allowed to make any errors at all and that's largely why this thread is such a shambles because people are so insistent that every goal we concede is his fault somehow. Every goal we don't score is because he's in the squad too. Even chances that don't lead to goals are his fault.

 

[MadDogg]

Yep, well said, sums up my feelings on the matter too.
He's not allowed to make any errors at all and that's largely why this thread is such a shambles because people are so insistent that every goal we concede is his fault somehow. Every goal we don't score is because he's in the squad too. Even chances that don't lead to goals are his fault.

The fact that we had one or two people in here trying to blame him for the Chelsea goal says it all.

 

[roonster09]

The fact that we had one or two people in here trying to blame him for the Chelsea goal says it all.

Every goal is blamed on Smalling.

 

[Web of Bissaka]

That's all fair. We all know his ball possession is not his strong suit at all. Very unlikely to improve since he's 28(?) now. But like you said, defensively he's probably the best at the club with a niche for being the best in aerial duels by a huge margin to all the rest. And the most reliable in terms of fitness.

I just wish people got off his back a bit. He's not the reason we're not coherent in attack and in our playstyle. There's no one player we'll add to this team, be it a CM or a CB that will magically make us title contenders. Our football should have more of an identity with the current crop of players. There's enough talent. People are aggressively scapegoating him for pretty much everything, from every goal that we concede to how we play our football. As if without Smalling in the team we turn into Barca from 2010. He's not allowed any mistakes. That's why certain posters, like me, feel they have to stick up for him. His contribution to our team is very largely positive, yet every single game his thread comes up first with people shitting on him. There's no respite.

I stand corrected. Yeah, Smalling have become the easy-go-to player to be slated by many (including me at times), which if we really think and feel about it, isn't that appropriate nor fair. In fact the recent games he have done his best and is actually our best defender overall. It's not his fault for having those clear flaws to his game (as every players does have flaws). Anyway, he's showing more and more of his Beast mode, just a shade but it'll do. Stifle Firmino next please.

 

[Tincanalley]

I get that people want to be diplomatic and say that he should get praise when he has a good game as well as the grief when he has a bad one but the reality is that he is just a terrible player.
Dress it up however you like but he's constantly been a weak link in our team for the last 5 years. Sticks out like a sore thumb. If he's still here next year I'll be amazed.

@Niall is this the kind of negative put down of our own players you were talking about?

 

[Tincanalley]

I love the guy. Love his story, he’s one of the old guard now. Not without imperfections, but a excellent man to have in the side. Took his goal brilliantly the other night, too.

 

[Niall]

@Niall is this the kind of negative put down of our own players you were talking about?

No that's fine in my book, that's his opinion and it's not expressed in a hysterical or excessively negative way. My post in that thread clearly says you can still express negative opinions, just do it in a coherent manner.

If he wrote "Smalling is utterly terrible" or "Sell Smalling!!" and left it at that then it would be a no-no.

Make sense?

 

[Tincanalley]

Cheers, that’s fair enough. Good to kind of get the temperature. I actually think the initiative has had some degree of success- at least judging from post match thread after Palace.

 

[RedEM10]

If he is then yeah, that was a very average bit of defending. Great goal though, so all is forgiven

Yeah he had a really good game. 2 brain farts, 2 goals though Weird one for Smalling haha

 

[7even]

Whatever we think about formations, tactics and so on I think we can mainly boil down yesterday’s successful comeback to leadership and attitude. After Palace second goal Chris Smalling played a huge part in our transformation by leading by example with a fearless approach against anything coming in his way.

I’m not only thinking about the goal. This team lacks leadership. Yesterday Smalling was one the few who took responsibility and started to perform when the result was going south. Shortly after our first goal I saw Lukaku pumping air into his lungs, showing the rest he’s ready to deliver and I also saw Alexis motivating Young and Vigge to attack whenever possible. That kind of leadership is what we need more then anything and Chris Smalling deserves more credit because he was one of the first to step forward when needed.

 

[manunited1919]

Here is the logic on this thread:
Phil Jones won’t defend first balls, so it’s Smalling’s fault.
Pogba and Ashley ignore the runner, so it’s Smalling’s fault.
Pogba and Alexis are not melding well, so it’s Smalling’s fault.
Donald Trump won’t shut his Twitter, so it’s Smalling’s fault.

 

[manunited1919]

Whatever we think about formations, tactics and so on I think we can mainly boil down yesterday’s successful comeback to leadership and attitude. After Palace second goal Chris Smalling played a huge part in our transformation by leading by example with a fearless approach against anything coming in his way.

I’m not only thinking about the goal. This team lacks leadership. Yesterday Smalling was one the few who took responsibility and started to perform when the result was going south. Shortly after our first goal I saw Lukaku pumping air into his lungs, showing the rest he’s ready to deliver and I also saw Alexis motivating Young and Vigge to attack whenever possible. That kind of leadership is what we need more then anything and Chris Smalling deserves more credit because he was one of the first to step forward when needed.

Well said. His goal and attitude was contagious, and was the reason JM gave him MOTM.

 

[Loublaze]

You have those that see the negative and those that are unable to do so. Both as bad as each other at exaggeration. Both unrealistic in their views.



Chris is the tallest defender we have.



You need help reading other peoples posts. Try google reader.

Just carry on with your agenda son. You post nothing but trash in this thread

 

[MThomas]

I actually missed that very early action but I see from those pictures that it is a counter-attack. 2 vs 2 with several players coming late. You don't sell yourself in these situations.

Benteke is almost at the edge of the box vs Smalling, while Sørloth is storming into the box vs Lindelof. Benteke is obviously looking for that early cross into the big Norwegian for an easy goal from a quick counter. Smalling keeps a bit distance to make sure his body is in a position to block a potential cross. So, that goal didn't happen. The next options Benteke has, if he is to capitalise on the 2vs2, is to either run past Smalling on the outside to cross, or stop and turn to cross with his good foot. Eventually he tries to dribble past him and take a shot. Not one of those attacking-plays come to fruition, because of actual good defending.

When Benteke makes the pass, the immediate threat of the 2 initial players is over, and we have (almost) enough people around the area to prevent a goal from that attack.

The best way to defend a counter-attack after the fact, with players running back like that, is to suspend the attack while handling the immediate threat. Smalling does exactly that in this situation.
Yeah, maybe he could have pushed him way out wide to the corner-flag but doing that would be a risk, because while going to action early might have stopped the counter entirely, you also run the risk of being left behind in a 2vs1 situation.

The way Smalling handled it was seasoned.


At least Valencia and Matic is quick when running back into a defensive position. Use the picture to compare the distance with those players and Pogba, and it's clear to see who is the main culprit for that goal. I feel alone because I actually rate Pogba's defensive capabilities, but his defensive awareness is terrible there, really poor and just lazy.
Usually all this wouldn't even be a discussion, because these sorts of situations happens all the time and with all the players we have around the box, shit gets cleared quickly, probably straight up in the air tho.

Look, don't let your personal feelings for Smalling dictate how a situation is viewed. Like Ekeke, who tries to fake offside...

What you fail to understand is the basic concept of defending. I don't think you'll find a single defense coach who will say that there are any viable scenarios where you should lead the attacker inside instead of outside. The reason is obvious, when you are forced on the outside your options are limited, but when you're allowed to go on the inside you can shoot, pass or cross, you basically pose a bigger threat going inside rather than outside. Even if going inside means its on their weaker foot..

You mention not selling yourself, well, when you position yourself so that the player, and not you, can decide to either go inside or outside, then you've already sold yourself. If you look at the second picture I posted from that situation, you will see that Smalling has clearly angled his body to force Benteke out wide, but Smallings problem is that his position is too far off Benteke, so when Benteke goes inside Smalling has to turn and then try to keep up.

It's not "seasoned" defending, it's poor defending.

The best way to defending a counter attack like that is to shut off the option to go inside by running alongside the player and forcing him out wide.

 

[Bobski]

The Benteke situation is such a minor error to require this level of analysis. Yes, Smalling could have been sharper in trying to force him to stay wide but Benteke is not a horse to be led, he has a certain level of control, especially in the initial seconds when it is a direct 1v1. You see situations like that multiple times a game, but they do not lead to a goal or even a chance because you defend as a team and have each others back.

Smalling allows Benteke a little too much control, Pogba hoofs the ball upfield and never looks to see if a runner is coming, Young is ball watching and Lindelof is passive. Every goal normally has multiple errors and it is very rarely on one player alone.

 

[Andycoleno9]

Here is the logic on this thread:
Phil Jones won’t defend first balls, so it’s Smalling’s fault.
Pogba and Ashley ignore the runner, so it’s Smalling’s fault.
Pogba and Alexis are not melding well, so it’s Smalling’s fault.
Donald Trump won’t shut his Twitter, so it’s Smalling’s fault.

Ok fair enough. Some people do that. But you have other side with different logic; for everything what smalling does, blame another player.
But your logic also works. In a game called football which is played with the foot, Smalling as a football player in biggest club in the country doesn't know to control and pass the ball.... but he is monster in the air.

 

[Ultimate Grib]

Just carry on with your agenda son. You post nothing but trash in this thread

Son

Trash:

Was poor in the first half but majestic in the second! He even looked more comfortable than usual on the ball. Our highest scoring CB

Oh the ironing!

 

[Gazautd18]

Son

Trash:



Oh the ironing!

Shirts or trousers?

 

[Loublaze]

Son

Trash:



Oh the ironing!

It must hurt seeing Smalling start every game. Let the hate flow through you.

 

[haram]

This thread is always a shambles.

 

[manunited1919]

Ok fair enough. Some people do that. But you have other side with different logic; for everything what smalling does, blame another player.
But your logic also works. In a game called football which is played with the foot, Smalling as a football player in biggest club in the country doesn't know to control and pass the ball.... but he is monster in the air.

He is our number one defender. Only Bailly might be better, and maybe Rojo when on form, but they have both been absent this year due to injury. Chris Smalling is a very good defender; not perfect, but still excellent. Plus, yesterday he showed the guts we all want to see in all MUFC players and helped the team get fired up. At the very least, I would hope the “flog Smalling this summer” crowd to show some sense and give it a rest this week. Just get behind our players and the team.

 

[Acole9]

He was appalling to start off with. Him and Lindelof were all over the show, they were both probably making each other feel nervous. As the game went on though he got his act together and I actually thought he played really well (I actually put him as my man of the match) he could've had two goals but the one he did get gave us some confidence.

It's difficult because in some games he's dreadful but in others he's very good. I know there's a lot of Smalling apologists on this forum but there are also a lot of fans who want him to be sold. I wonder if he just needs a top class partner to play along side him to make him feel more assured. I can't stand it when him and Jones are paired together, I think Jones is the better of the two but I don't trust either of them, there's a mistake in both of them which is why they shouldn't play together.

We just need to get Bailly back as soon as possible, even if he's 50% fit, he's better than all of our centre backs when they're 100% fit. They all look like they've got a mistake in them, the same with Valencia and especially Young in the full back positions.

 

[MikeKing]

Look, don't let your personal feelings for Smalling dictate how a situation is viewed. Like Ekeke, who tries to fake offside...

What you fail to understand is the basic concept of defending. I don't think you'll find a single defense coach who will say that there are any viable scenarios where you should lead the attacker inside instead of outside. The reason is obvious, when you are forced on the outside your options are limited, but when you're allowed to go on the inside you can shoot, pass or cross, you basically pose a bigger threat going inside rather than outside. Even if going inside means its on their weaker foot..

You mention not selling yourself, well, when you position yourself so that the player, and not you, can decide to either go inside or outside, then you've already sold yourself. If you look at the second picture I posted from that situation, you will see that Smalling has clearly angled his body to force Benteke out wide, but Smallings problem is that his position is too far off Benteke, so when Benteke goes inside Smalling has to turn and then try to keep up.

It's not "seasoned" defending, it's poor defending.

The best way to defending a counter attack like that is to shut off the option to go inside by running alongside the player and forcing him out wide.

I disagree with your claim about the ball's path down to the corner-flag. It's wide for being central, if that makes sense.

This is becoming sort of tedious. You know, I get that what you are talking about is a basic concept, and it's the way fullbacks defend all the time. Because they often find themselves in situations like this, only closer to the touchline and usually with a CB as cover.

But what does your textbook say about defending a 1-1 with no cover on a counter? Can you look it up? I guess it doesn't matter what is going on around you? Or what position you are in? No reason to worry about the risk of letting someone behind you, is it? Does not matter the least if an early cross was to be attempted, especially when we have Lindelof vs Sørloth in the box. No risk at all there. Lindelof surely would have won that header with a textbook clearance.
So as you say, Smalling should get close to a big and strong player (textbook defending that) far away from his box and if Lindelof clears a potential high or low cross or De Gea makes a save from a free shot after Benteke gets past him, you would come in here to congratulate Chris for his attempted textbook play in that situation i reckon? Even if it led to a goal too, yes?

You have to admit that it is possible we would have conceded a goal some other way even if he did exactly as you said? You say it like if Smalling gets close and gets run past you wouldn't blame him. But you would.
Defending is all about risk and its not just one way to defend every type of situation. If you really believe that your understanding of the necessary action needed (with replay) is better than what Smalling's is in real time? Then you are silly

But look, I see you point too, but it all depends on how you view it and how far back in the move you want to start calculating. Why don't you also complain about Smalling not intercepting the pass in the first place? If he was aggressive there, surely he would have claimed it before it reached Benteke right? Why shouldn't he be aggressive there? Really try to answer me that question in depth, and we'll see who lets their personal feelings cloud their judgement.

 

[Tincanalley]

“Smalling apologists!”. This thread is ludicrous. Jose Mourhino. Sir Alex Ferguson. Louis Van Gaal. Smalling apologists. Oh, the shame.

 

[Snow]

Smalling's spirit was a big part of United getting back into it yesterday. He was a big factor in the win.

 

[MThomas]

I disagree with your claim about the ball's path down to the corner-flag. It's wide for being central, if that makes sense.

This is becoming sort of tedious. You know, I get that what you are talking about is a basic concept, and it's the way fullbacks defend all the time. Because they often find themselves in situations like this, only closer to the touchline and usually with a CB as cover.

But what does your textbook say about defending a 1-1 with no cover on a counter? Can you look it up? I guess it doesn't matter what is going on around you? Or what position you are in? No reason to worry about the risk of letting someone behind you, is it? Does not matter the least if an early cross was to be attempted, especially when we have Lindelof vs Sørloth in the box. No risk at all there. Lindelof surely would have won that header with a textbook clearance.
So as you say, Smalling should get close to a big and strong player (textbook defending that) far away from his box and if Lindelof clears a potential high or low cross or De Gea makes a save from a free shot after Benteke gets past him, you would come in here to congratulate Chris for his attempted textbook play in that situation i reckon? Even if it led to a goal too, yes?

You have to admit that it is possible we would have conceded a goal some other way even if he did exactly as you said? You say it like if Smalling gets close and gets run past you wouldn't blame him. But you would.
Defending is all about risk and its not just one way to defend every type of situation. If you really believe that your understanding of the necessary action needed (with replay) is better than what Smalling's is in real time? Then you are silly

But look, I see you point too, but it all depends on how you view it and how far back in the move you want to start calculating. Why don't you also complain about Smalling not intercepting the pass in the first place? If he was aggressive there, surely he would have claimed it before it reached Benteke right? Why shouldn't he be aggressive there? Really try to answer me that question in depth, and we'll see who lets their personal feelings cloud their judgement.

You really have no understanding of this at all...

 

[Ultimate Grib]

It must hurt seeing Smalling start every game. Let the hate flow through you.

I think you mistake everyone for yourself. We don't live and die by Smalling, unlike you

 

[PSingh]

He’s a good ‘no nonsense’ defender- quick, strong in the air, decent positioning and reading of the game. But he just doesn’t cut it for a top team hunting for the top two trophies.

His inability to play from the back severely weakens us. It seems as though it takes an age to get the ball from our CBs into midfield. I remember in LVG’s last season, after a UCL game Rio Ferdinand made similar comments about him (IIRC it was against Wolfsburg at home), Rio was saying that he has the physical attributes to become a world class centre back, but needs to spend time working on his technical ability to make the step up, as the world class CBs of today can all play out from the back.

It seemed logical and natural for this to be the next step for Smalling, but for whatever reason he just hasn’t kicked on in this regard. Would be happy to see him leave at the end of the season.