What would that be? He's our best defender in the air. He's fast, great defender in the box, good at intercepting the ball, shielding it. What is he bad at except looking awkward with the ball? Yesterday, he even made some runs through the middle and had a couple of forward passes - must be an early Christmas spirit.
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Season Average Rating
- Appearances
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- Clean sheets
- 20
- Goals
- 4
- Assists
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- Yellow cards
- 4
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What would that be? He's our best defender in the air. He's fast, great defender in the box, good at intercepting the ball, shielding it. What is he bad at except looking awkward with the ball? Yesterday, he even made some runs through the middle and had a couple of forward passes - must be an early Christmas spirit.
@11101 i’d be intrigued to know what that is also. I mean he is the best talker back there and organiser,is the best in the air, is quite could at Reading danger, very rarely has to go to ground, he can be aggressive and then he has the smarts to know to allow the other aggressive players to go and then drops back to sweep up behind them. When he was partnered with Blind he did an excellent job of reading what Blind could and couldn’t handle.
He will stride out of defence and yeah play a safe ball but I’d rather he did that than needlessly give it away when he is miles out of position. He obviously still has things to improve on they all do but he is for me anyway our best defender.
I agree with all of that except the bold. Hard to know who the best talker is as we can't hear what they are saying, but Smalling appears to have miscommunicated with players around him and it has led to two players going for the same ball, or worse, no players going for a ball. He definitely needs to be more assertive there from the looks of things. I agree with the rest though. Not bothered about his ball playing, or lack of. If he plays the simple ball, then I don't see an issue with that, so long as he defends well. We haven't seen much of his penalty-box-wrestling this season so hopefully that is something he has worked on. His overall defending has been solid this season. He was decent for a lot of last season too, but it seems that when Smalling makes a mistake, it is blown out of proportion somewhat and he is smacked with all of his shortcomings at once, even if they weren't evident in the game he was getting criticism for.
I was basing it off of all the pointing and seeing his lips moving. I think it’s underestimated how much he actually does. Telling people to step up and stuff. For me it looks like he does a lot of the directing. Even when it’s a set play against us it’s always him making sure everyone is in position and doing their jobs.
But you are right that it’s hard to know who the best talker is but from their actions I’d wager Smalling. Bailly,Jones and Rojo don’t ever seem to do any of that.
His positioning is poor and he is not an assertive player. Quite often he is chasing the game and reacting, making tackles etc. It's why he sometimes has shockers, because he's not in control of his game. He relies on his pace and tackling to get back on top of situations. A top defender reads the game and makes sure they are already where they need to be before they need to be there. I have never seen Smalling do that.
He played a few last night
Including one through ball around the ~80th minute that cut through their midfield all the way to Martial I think it was.
To be honest, even if all our defenders were fit there's no other I would pick to mark Kane on Saturday. He is the best aerial defender by far, that's undisputed. He also doesn't have that bad habit of rushing out to meet a ball and either missing the challenge or decking the oppo player and getting a yellow card, like Rojo or Bailly do. He's just a solid defender who gets flack because he looks awkward on the ball like Bambi.
Yeah, Smalling always had good games against Kane. Hopefully it continues.
To suggest Smalling's positioning is poor is comprehensively wrong. Like, it's just not true. You can't have played football to any degree and think that.
Jones seems very vocal. I remember Fergie saying he was impressed with that early on before we signed him, how he was just a kid and he was barking orders at Chris Samba. You're right about Bailly and Rojo though. I have now idea how good their English is but you don't really see them doing the same. Bailly just goes rogue and does what he wants.
You've never seen Smalling make easy interceptions and cutting out passes by being in the right place? It happens quite often.
The criticism that top defenders should never have to recover and make last ditch tackles seems somewhat exaggerated. I've seen many top defenders do this. Vidic did it frequently. Stam also. Rio rarely, but he is the exception rather than the rule.
Bailly does it all the time, and his recovery challenges are something he very often gets heaped with praise for in match day threads, but when Smalling does it, it's used as a stick to beat him with. The guy can't win.
Have you ever watched Smalling? He rarely tackles. He's got the lowest ratio of tackles per game out of all our CBs.
I mean that sounds like your describing Phil Jones and Rojo. Sorry but I don’t agree with most of what you just said. Out of our back line for me anyway he is the best at reading what is going on around him.
Big Mike’s become a very useful player for us. On his day he’s absolutely world class. Only quibble would be his sometimes erratic passing and the handful of games each season where he seems to completely forget how to play football.
Bailly, Jones and Rojo are all worse in those aspects.
Looks like you made a bad claim and trying to justify that with making up things now.
Another post to add to the growing file of “why oh fecking why can’t people praise/defend one Manchester United player without shitting on at least one other”...
My disgust at the way Phil Jones is always Just diving about maybe hides the talking part. That and the many humerous faces he pulls.
I was wondering about the English of the guys you mentioned but my experience of football is you only need a few key phrases and a lot is done by pointing. Set plays would be more complicated tho. So they would be hindered there. It would be intresting to just ask them.
I think more than erratic passing, it's how he takes so much time to release the ball or lacks any imagination. Tbh he has good ability, sometimes he carried the ball to the midfield and played some nice diagonal passes under Van Gaal but for some reason he lacks confidence to play them regularly or try to carry the ball.
When Smalling signed he did it regularly, I remember posting all the posts from back then calling him Smallingbauer(Not exactly fantastic with ball but at least he wasn't poor).
Yeah that's not true at all. Assertiveness is often seen as being one to take charge or take control, and go in hard on tackles. Not every player needs to be like that, especially defenders.
What works well for Jones, Rojo & Bailly isn't going to work well for all defenders, and certainly doesn't make them the blueprint for which all defenders to follow either.
The great thing about our defence is the versatility and depth.
Chris is assertive because he's a commanding figure who can dominate the box especially when dealing with aerial threats. He doesn't need to jump into tackles.
Plus he tackles the least out of our defenders which suggests he's more likely to be in the right place to nullify an attack, rather than having to go to ground.
Well, for starters, he is a poor communicator and a poor organiser, evident so many times with his collisions with the GK and other defenders during a match. He is an average reader of the game and occasionally shows very poor positioning. Not that great of an interceptor of the ball and he is seldom able to push the ball from the attacker's feet without commiting a foul. All this without mentioning his passing, which is a very important ability nowadays, as teams tend to be organised much better and the average modern CB spends much time on the ball, so ball skills especially passing has become very important. He had a superb 1 year under LVG, but has obviously regressed. IMO, in selection, he would be behind Jones, Bailly, Rojo and Axel has the potential to overcome him, if given sufficient chances.
What's wrong with having an opinion that one of our players is better than our other options in a particular area? All have their strengths/weaknesses.
Have you played with him so that you know he is a poor communicator? The collision with the goalie yesterday seemed to be Romero who was at fault. However, the two of them not playing together much can also be a factor. I recall Rio and VDS struggling a bit with communication at the start, and neither of them were bad at communicating or poor leaders at the back.
He's actually pretty good at reading the game; people often go on about his two red cards, but fact of the matter is, he seldom makes fouls and gets cards as he doesn't tackle that much. He is also pretty darn good at getting in front of attackers either to head the ball our outmuscle them.
As others have pointed out, Smalling probably tackles the least of all our defenders, so that's just wrong, and I don't think he has that many shockers. People went on about how he fecks up in big matches, and so I looked at red cards for Vidic compared to Smalling and divided on minutes played - guess what, Vidic was way worse. Rio was great at reading the game, but he too was dependant on his pace - why not use your attributes?
Poor positioning..?
It's actually the best aspect of his game.
It's actually the best aspect of his game.
Yes, he passed the ball more under LVG, but for every successful forward pass he made, he messed up 3-4 simple passes. Nowadays, whenever you see him with the ball, he will look up, look for passing options, and tamely pass the ball sideways or to the GK. That means, 2-3 players have to make themselves available for the pass around him, which in turn leads to less players in the opponent's half.
He is heavily dependent on his physical abilities, and once he loses them, he is going to turn into a p!ss poor Centreback. But, he is needed because he is still the best header of the ball amongst our defenders, who doesn't seem know what scoring by heading the ball into the net means.
Watch him on the pitch when hes not on the ball or directly involved. He is quite often rushing to get where he is supposed to be. I've played to a plenty high enough degree thank you, and as a CB.
Assertiveness is also confidence in your own ability, which all great players need. Smalling seems to lack that. How many times do you see him dither or make a half arsed effort at something.
Look at Huddersfield when he tried to tackle Herrera and he was hardly commanding the situation in either goal we conceded.
I'm not even sure we are taking about same player reading your this and last post.
Only yesterday? You seem to have short term memory. I recall Smalling having communication problems with De Gea many times, with Jones, with Martial, with Blind at different times during the last few seasons including this. When did reading the game mean making less fouls and tackles? Reading the game includes positoning, anticipating player's movements, attacks, being at the right place to prevent it, and passing the ball to the best possible option to turn defence into attack as quickly as possible. I agree that he is pretty good in one on one situations, using his body well to block the ball and does not easily dive into tackles. But that is simply just one aspect of the game, he is poor than most of our defenders in others.
Bolded part: first of all, slightly untrue, but most important, so what? He has those attributes and he has built his game around them. Rio did the same. Giggs used his pace as a winger; when he lost a yard, he reinvented his game. Ronaldo is still relying on his physical attributes. Why is it so wrong for SMalling to do so? As for heavily dependent on them - look how often Smalling runs at full pelt compared to Bailly, Jones and Rojo. Smalling is actually very good at reading the game and therefore seldom has to take those long sprints as often. For a centre back, relying on strength and jumping is quite normal.
Smalling's a good central defender when fit and on form, but so is Jones, Bailey, Rojo, and Blind can be effective there too.
Out of our 4 CB's the decision is really just about who is fit, on form, and able to form a good relationship with their partner. None of Jones, Bailey, & Rojo, aren't currently fully fit.
Out of our 4 CB's the decision is really just about who is fit, on form, and able to form a good relationship with their partner. None of Jones, Bailey, & Rojo, aren't currently fully fit.
Assertiveness & confidence in your ability are two different things, you seem to have decided that they are similar. I can have confidence in my ability to do my job, but not the assertiveness to demand that I present it to the CEO of the company for example.
I don't see him dither unless it's when he's thinking about making a pass.
His passing seems to annoy some people, I personally don't care because I prefer my defenders can actually defend first, what they do with the ball afterwards doesn't concern me as long as they clear their lines.
I'm not sure how you can watch the Huddersfield match and determine that he could have done anything differently than what he did?
In both goals the goal scorer was not his responsibility to mark, and he was tracking back to try and rectify the situation that Mata & Lindelof caused, while still covering the passing lane for the defender that he was marking.
If he had come closer to the ball, then the man in possession would have passed to his teammate who would have been left open for an easy tap-in, and then you would have blamed him for the goal anyway.
Just a couple of posts ago you said he makes many fouls, so perhaps you should at least get your arguments straight as now you agree he doesn't dive into tackles. Good in one on one situations, using his body well to block the ball, staying on his feet, great in the air, fast - are all those attributes and abilities really just one aspect of the game, or is that aspect what the rest of us call defending? Adding to that plethora of "aspect", his positioning is mostly very good.
As for communication, we have a problem in that we haven't had a settled defense since Rio and Vidic. Smalling and Blind actually formed a pretty decent partnership under LVG and seemed to have a good understanding. DDG, for all of his brilliance, still lacks command of the box and is too stationary leading to certain misunderstandings with all of the defenders.
Also, if you read the game well you don't have to tackle as much; subsequently, you give away fewer fouls. He looks to me as if he is pretty good at anticipating players' movements if he is good one on one. He gets caught out from time to time, as do all defenders.
OK Huddersfield's goals.
Goal 1.
When the attacker is turning Lindelof inside out Smalling is over by his man as he should be. However once it's clear Lindelof is in trouble and Mooy is bearing down on goal for the pass a top defender would see what's coming and get over to cover it, the pass to his man would be no more 'on' than it already was. Smalling instead stays right by his man and well out of the play.
Goal 2.
Lindelof's mistake entirely but Smalling is jogging nonchalantly far over to the side of them. A top defender anticipates better and makes sure he is closer to the situation and trying to cover Lindelof in case something goes wrong. Again he was well out of the play.
In neither case am I saying Smalling could have prevented the goal but a Rio or a Vidic handles both situations better.
Yeah i'm not really sure what he should have done for the first goal? Lindelof is in trouble, but Mata is also over there trying to 'help' Smalling is covering his man the entire time. If he leaves his man open then when the ball comes back out to Mooy, then Mooy can just pass it to his open teammate.
Matic should have done a better job tracking the position of Mooy.
Second goal, it's clear that Lindelof was trying to head the ball to Smalling.
I don't think it's fair to anticipate that your teammate will miss a header, and in doing so get yourself out of position to try and position yourself in the right place if he misses his header.
If Smalling moves out of place in order to try and anticipate Lindelof's header and Lindelof actually connects with the ball, then it becomes a misplaced pass.
If Smalling did what he was supposed to do and stay in his position, then it's not really his fault that Lindelof can't head a simple ball.
Afterwards he makes up a lot of ground to try and recover and narrow the angle between the goal and the goalscorer, including sticking out his leg.
Again i'm not sure what he could have done?
Or what Rio or Smalling would have done better in those positions either?
Heading, pace and positioning. In that order.
For all his flaws and he has a few, some here have completely forgot what role a defender has in a team. The name says it all.
Lindelöf was bought here because he has great passing apparently but he is atm terrible in most other aspects of defending. Pace (none), heading (none) and positioning not good at all. It´s a bit funny that while we have bought 3 defenders in Rojo, Bailly and Lindelöf our most reliable defenders have been the once many people here wanted out.
I didn't say he commits less fouls, u were the one who said it, I just did not bother to argue about it, doesn't mean that I accepted your point. Yes, this season, he has commited less fouls comparitively, but he has hardly played against top teams either. Football is evolving, and defence nowadays is not restricted to simply blocking a ball. I had mentioned some aspects which you chose to ignore.
And about your point on Chris using his physical abilities, I certainly don't have any problems with Smalling using them, it's just that even after being heavily dependent on them, he is not an exceptional player in his position, so, the comparisons with Rio/ Vidic is a bizarre one. A townsend or a Zaha would be a better comparison perhaps. I don't rate Smalling as much as you do, and certainly don't think he is ever going to be a top CB. But, as a fourth choice CB for us, he is alright.
You are describing a perfect CB who is not in this world, if ever he is then there won't be a goal conceded.We've beat Spurs 3-0 and two 1-0 wins in the last three games at OT
I didn't see that in Rio and Vidic when Messi just stood between them and scored that headed goal in our CL Final.
Then why Rio didn't anticipate the situation, when Eto'o skinned Vidic to score that goal in the same game also?
Smalling and confirmation bias, people looking for the things they want to see.
He has his flaws but he often gets blamed for things out of his control, his partner struggles, makes a basic mistake, "playing next to Smalling can not help". Searching for a reason to partly blame the Huddersfield goals on him is just absurd. Jones suffers from the same issue at times.
He has his flaws but he often gets blamed for things out of his control, his partner struggles, makes a basic mistake, "playing next to Smalling can not help". Searching for a reason to partly blame the Huddersfield goals on him is just absurd. Jones suffers from the same issue at times.
He is a good defender, but many a times i wish he passes the ball forward. He is capable of them. It will make our transitions faster. The countless sideways passes between our defenders makes our play too laggard
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