[Virgil]

For me there are two issues. Firstly is Chris the best that Jose has available for this season and the answer to that must be a resounding yes. Jones looks as if he will never remain free of injury. Rojo is rash and unpredictable. Lindelof has yet to show he can make the transition and Bailley is recovering from injury.

As a pure defender he is competent. Trouble is you have to be exceptional to survive in a top club these days if you are essentially a one trick wonder. Full backs have to get up and down the wing and are expected to cross decently. Midfielders are required to be box to box and even defensive midfielders are expected to deliver more than the very occasional assist. Even number nines can no longer just sit on the edge of the opponents half and leave the defending to others. In short footballers generally are required to multi-task. Sadly with the ball at his feet Smalling is never going to cut it.

Which brings me neatly to the second issue. Should United be looking to replace him. For me the answer is another simple yes. But I would qualify it by adding that Jones and Rojo should also be sold. Lindelof I'd give another season to although I don't hold any real hope that he will make the grade. Of our current crop of CBs the only one I reckon is United quality is Bailly. Who do we replace them with well thats a different issue. Personally I'd have preferred us to have attempted to steal Laporte from City rather than highjacking Sanchez but that ship has well and truly sailed. Cannot get away from the feeling though that we have got to find CB's who are comfortable with the ball at their feet.

 

[Kostov]

They had one great chance and it was Smallings fault, didn't react at all to their players movement.

Yes it was his fault. Did you expect Sevilla would go through 90m at home without creating a great chance? If everybody played as good as our CBs and De Gea, we would have won.

 

[Ekeke]

Because Rojo is a better player.

In what way is a CB who gets skinned by attackers more often than not, a better CB than Chris Smalling?

So he's currently the 2nd most likely CB to be dribbled past per 90 minutes of those who have played 5 matches or more this season.

 

[arnie_ni]

feck this, not sure it's worth it but here we go.

To me, the attacking issue coincides with pogba out.

 

[Jaybomb]

In what way is a CB who gets skinned by attackers more often than not, a better CB than Chris Smalling?

So he's currently the 2nd most likely CB to be dribbled past per 90 minutes of those who have played 5 matches or more this season.

Spare me these useless stats.

Anyone who watches the game with their own two eyes can see that we play better football with Rojo and Bailly than we do with Smalling and Jones. The way they carry the ball out from the defence, the aggression in their tackles and overall passion on the pitch makes them much better options than the latter two. Even opposition fans I know point out Smalling and Jones as the weak links... they always have a mistake in them. Regardless of what form they’re in, we’re always waiting for THAT moment. In Jones’ case, it happened at Spurs. In Smalling’s, it happened at Newcastle. AND he almost cost us a penalty with a handball last week...

Rojo isn’t the best defender in the world but he’s capable of getting us titles. Argentina got to the World Cup final with him in defence. He even got into the Team of the Tournament.... Smalling and Jones will never accomplish that. With or without Messi in their team. They have no business being at an elite team. They’re fecking Stoke quality. No difference in the likes of Shawcross, Evans, etc and these two. I don’t care what anybody says.

 

[Isotope]

Rojo isn’t the best defender in the world but he’s capable of getting us titles. Argentina got to the World Cup final with him in defence. He even got into the Team of the Tournament.... Smalling and Jones will never accomplish that. With or without Messi in their team. They have no business being at an elite team. They’re fecking Stoke quality. No difference in the likes of Shawcross, Evans, etc and these two. I don’t care what anybody says.

He was a LB at that WC, not as CB. We tried him there, and he's a liability. So using that WC as a standard isn't useful.

 

[Loublaze]

Spare me these useless stats.

Anyone who watches the game with their own two eyes can see that we play better football with Rojo and Bailly than we do with Smalling and Jones. The way they carry the ball out from the defence, the aggression in their tackles and overall passion on the pitch makes them much better options than the latter two. Even opposition fans I know point out Smalling and Jones as the weak links... they always have a mistake in them. Regardless of what form they’re in, we’re always waiting for THAT moment. In Jones’ case, it happened at Spurs. In Smalling’s, it happened at Newcastle. AND he almost cost us a penalty with a handball last week...

Rojo isn’t the best defender in the world but he’s capable of getting us titles. Argentina got to the World Cup final with him in defence. He even got into the Team of the Tournament.... Smalling and Jones will never accomplish that. With or without Messi in their team. They have no business being at an elite team. They’re fecking Stoke quality. No difference in the likes of Shawcross, Evans, etc and these two. I don’t care what anybody says.

Where was Rojo when Smalling captained United in the EL final? Probably home eating burnt toast nursing another injury. Why isnt Mourinho playing world cup losing finalist Rojo ahead of Jones or Smalling at every given opportunity?

 

[Bobski]

Portugal won the European Championship with Cedric Soares and Jose Fonte in their team, we should sign them. 6/7 games in a summer tournament is more indicative of a players level than watching them for the best part of 4 years.

 

[haram]

This Rojo vs Smalling weekly fight is hilarious

 

[Still ill]

This Rojo vs Smalling weekly fight is hilarious

Ah, seems only yesterday it was Jones vs Evans.

 

[Jaybomb]

Where was Rojo when Smalling captained United in the EL final? Probably home eating burnt toast nursing another injury. Why isnt Mourinho playing world cup losing finalist Rojo ahead of Jones or Smalling at every given opportunity?

He was injured during the EL final. And he’s injured now.

And let’s not forget Smalling got a red card in the FA Cup final against Palace after a brainless challenge. He almost cost us that one.

 

[arnie_ni]

He was injured during the EL final. And he’s injured now.

And let’s not forget Smalling got a red card in the FA Cup final against Palace after a brainless challenge. He almost cost us that one.

Hes not injured. He's been fit for about 2 or 3 months

 

[Jaybomb]

Hes not injured. He's been fit for about 2 or 3 months

He picked up a knock in the past 2 weeks. That’s why he’s not on the bench. He started against Huddersfield.

 

[Loublaze]

He picked up a knock in the past 2 weeks. That’s why he’s not on the bench. He started against Huddersfield.

He's shit and a freaking sicknote. Mind to tell us the most league games he's completed for United in his four seasons here?

 

[Jaybomb]

He's shit and a freaking sicknote. Mind to tell us the most league games he's completed for United in his four seasons here?

Excellent analysis there.

This thread isn’t about Rojo anyway. I’m sick of posters calling me out and mentioning Rojo whenever I criticise Smalling.

If you think Rojo is shit, fair play. But that doesn’t make Smalling fecking Beckenbauer does it? Cop on.

 

[Loublaze]

Excellent analysis there.

This thread isn’t about Rojo anyway. I’m sick of posters calling me out and mentioning Rojo whenever I criticise Smalling.

If you think Rojo is shit, fair play. But that doesn’t make Smalling fecking Beckenbauer does it? Cop on.

Smalling is better than Rojo. LVG signed him and he still played Smalling more LOL

 

[Jaybomb]

Smalling is better than Rojo. LVG signed him and he still played Smalling more LOL

And LVG got sacked LOL

 

[Loublaze]

And LVG got sacked LOL

Replaced by Mourinho who has played Smalling more than your Argentinian flop

 

[Loublaze]

I think you need to tone it down a little bit with the swearing. I know the truth is hard to take in but there's no reason to get upset or even angry about it. You know you would defend Smalling to the ends of the earth even if he was the one solely responsible for bringing the rapture upon us.

Your argument is Smalling is the best by default because others haven't managed to stay fit. That's not how ability and talent works. There's no default about it. My argument all along has been he is not good enough to be here, we need to replace and get rid! We have tried to replace but it hasn't worked out with injuries especially. Leave it now let's discuss the next time he has another one of his trademark moments like last night.

Smalling is our best CB whether you like it or not. Every manager we've had since Fergie departed has played him more than our other CB options. Thats four seasons buddy. Whats the point in having sicknotes who you can't rely on for shit? 12 months from now I can almost guarantee you'll still be bitching about Smalling and he'll still be the one getting the most game time. We've signed Blind, Rojo and Lindelof to 'improve' our defense in recent seasons and its still Smalling getting the minutes and the most impressive stats. Must really hurt huh?

 

[Antonedwin]

feck this, not sure it's worth it but here we go.

I think you need to tone it down a little bit with the swearing. I know the truth is hard to take in but there's no reason to get upset or even angry about it. You know you would defend Smalling to the ends of the earth even if he was the one solely responsible for bringing the rapture upon us.

Your argument is Smalling is the best by default because others haven't managed to stay fit. That's not how ability and talent works. There's no default about it. My argument all along has been he is not good enough to be here, we need to replace and get rid! We have tried to replace but it hasn't worked out with injuries especially. Leave it now let's discuss the next time he has another one of his trademark moments like last night.

Having one person in the team who completely inept on the ball cause us to hoof more , it's not surprising we didn't attack well.
I hope Bailly play against Chelsea , we will see massive upgrade in our attacking game. Trust me

Yes it was his fault. Did you expect Sevilla would go through 90m at home without creating a great chance? If everybody played as good as our CBs and De Gea, we would have won.

He didn't check behind his shoulders & didn't notice muriel lurking in at all. school boy defending , for 28 years old defender playing with us , that's pathetic , and some people credit him for the clean sheets we got is embarrassing , there would be no clean sheets yesterday with lesser keeper & it's his fault

@Loublaze my agenda is simple , i have seen enough of smalling for the last 8 years & already sick looking at him playing football , i never really criticized anyone below 25 since i feel like they are still learning , you won't see me ranting on lindelof / mctominay thread for example

Ever since this guy become our main cb , we also stop challenging for the league, he is part of the mediocrity we have seen for the last 5 years

What is your agenda ? You ain't sick yet looking at him always have to turn his body in robotic manner whenever he wanted to pass?

 

[Jaybomb]

Loublaze has to be a WUM. Either that or he’s Chris Smalling himself.

There’s no way anyone would have this much affection for a bang average CB.

 

[Loublaze]

Loublaze has to be a WUM. Either that or he’s Chris Smalling himself.

There’s no way anyone would have this much affection for a bang average CB.

Homie you think Rojo is United's version of Sergio Ramos. GTFO

 

[Jaybomb]

Homie you think Rojo is United's version of Sergio Ramos. GTFO

In terms of their play style and temper, there is a lot of similarities.

I bet you were one of those lads that called Chris Smalling “Smalldini”... so I’m not even going to entertain this debate. It’s hypocrisy at its finest.

 

[RedSky]

Loublaze has to be a WUM. Either that or he’s Chris Smalling himself.

There’s no way anyone would have this much affection for a bang average CB.

You seem to love Rojo mate and he's bang average. So... awkward.

 

[Djemba-Djemba]

One thing you have to credit Smalling with is his fitness record. When compared to the likes of Rojo or even Bailly, Smalling is fit enough to play more often than not.

The last 3 seasons or so he's been very good in that regard.

 

[Loublaze]

In terms of their play style and temper, there is a lot of similarities.

I bet you were one of those lads that called Chris Smalling “Smalldini”... so I’m not even going to entertain this debate. It’s hypocrisy at its finest.

I've never compared Smalling to any world class player, I dont even consider him world class. The flop Rojo is NOWHERE close to Ramos

 

[Loublaze]

You seem to love Rojo mate and he's bang average. So... awkward.

 

[MikeKing]

What is your agenda ? You ain't sick yet looking at him always have to turn his body in robotic manner whenever he wanted to pass?

In terms of their play style and temper, there is a lot of similarities.

I think this is the key for each side of the "agenda". Some people REALLY care about how people look when they play, like actually won't entertain any thought that resembles credit because they're tired of robotic movements that symbolises our fall from grace after Fergie left. Rojo doesn't symbolise this because he looks more like Sergio Ramos who plays for Real Madrid, a top team. The other "agenda posters" are annoyed by these weird negatively exaggerated posts attacking our player based on how he looks and therefore defend Smalling's defensive-attributes because they are greatly overlooked. Just my view on it, but Im an agenda poster like everybody else. Because i don't care how a player looks, I mean Smalling is 1.94 tall and a defender. He doesn't need to be graceful

He's a 'safety-first' defender and makes a lot less mistakes than players like Stones, Luiz, Rojo, Ramos etc. Im not sure he's made more mistakes than Rio, Vidic so he is due some. Like against Sevilla, he should have shown more awareness in that one situation. He lost his man looking out for others, he needs to manage saving the others without losing his own man. It's a top-class trait to do that. He is not that far off now it seems, as the rest of our backline except De Gea is a mess

 

[RedSky]

One thing you have to credit Smalling with is his fitness record. When compared to the likes of Rojo or even Bailly, Smalling is fit enough to play more often than not.

The last 3 seasons or so he's been very good in that regard.

Yup, which seems bananas why anyone would want to sell him for the rest of the useless lumps below. Bailly's already missed more games in 2 seasons than Smalling has in 3 unfortunately (not calling Bailly a useless lump fyi).

Jones missed 58 games due to injury in previous 3 seasons - 35.4%
Rojo missed 55 games due to injury in previous 3 seasons - 33.5%
Bailly missed 33 games due to injury in previous 2 seasons - 31.4%
Smalling missed 24 games due to injury in previous 3 seasons - 14.6%

Injuries taken from transfermarkt.co.uk

We can take this a bit further by doing the following:

• Count the amount of clean sheets each player has been part of (must have played 45mins or more).
• Remove the injured games as the final total, so for example Jones missed 58 from a possible 164, so he'd have 106 games.

Smalling - 50 clean sheets from a possible 140 games - 35.7%
Bailly - 25 clean sheets from a possible 72 games - 34.7%
Rojo - 28 clean sheets from a possible 109 games - 25.7%
Jones - 27 clean sheets from a possible 106 games - 25.5%

Smalling with 50 clean sheets in 3 seasons isn't bad. Smalling with almost double the amount of clean sheets as Jones.

 

[Ekeke]

Spare me these useless stats.

Anyone who watches the game with their own two eyes can see that we play better football with Rojo and Bailly than we do with Smalling and Jones. The way they carry the ball out from the defence, the aggression in their tackles and overall passion on the pitch makes them much better options than the latter two. Even opposition fans I know point out Smalling and Jones as the weak links... they always have a mistake in them. Regardless of what form they’re in, we’re always waiting for THAT moment. In Jones’ case, it happened at Spurs. In Smalling’s, it happened at Newcastle. AND he almost cost us a penalty with a handball last week...

Rojo isn’t the best defender in the world but he’s capable of getting us titles. Argentina got to the World Cup final with him in defence. He even got into the Team of the Tournament.... Smalling and Jones will never accomplish that. With or without Messi in their team. They have no business being at an elite team. They’re fecking Stoke quality. No difference in the likes of Shawcross, Evans, etc and these two. I don’t care what anybody says.

So a stat that a CB who gets dribbled past the 2nd most times in the league is a useless stat? Your posts are as comedic as Rojo's defending

 

[Ultimate Grib]

Chris Smalling best Manchester United defender by default

That is likely to be his biggest achievement, I can see it printed on his headstone...

 

[Antonedwin]

So if I'm reading this correctly:

With Smalling in the team we take less shots and concede more shots against us? That roughly sticks with the trend i posted of the last couple of seasons.

With Pogba in the team we take more shots and concede roughly the same number of shots, maybe slightly less?

I think this is the key for each side of the "agenda". Some people REALLY care about how people look when they play, like actually won't entertain any thought that resembles credit because they're tired of robotic movements that symbolises our fall from grace after Fergie left. Rojo doesn't symbolise this because he looks more like Sergio Ramos who plays for Real Madrid, a top team. The other "agenda posters" are annoyed by these weird negatively exaggerated posts attacking our player based on how he looks and therefore defend Smalling's defensive-attributes because they are greatly overlooked. Just my view on it, but Im an agenda poster like everybody else. Because i don't care how a player looks, I mean Smalling is 1.94 tall and a defender. He doesn't need to be graceful

He's a 'safety-first' defender and makes a lot less mistakes than players like Stones, Luiz, Rojo, Ramos etc. Im not sure he's made more mistakes than Rio, Vidic so he is due some. Like against Sevilla, he should have shown more awareness in that one situation. He lost his man looking out for others, he needs to manage saving the others without losing his own man. It's a top class-trait to do that. He is not that far off now it seems, as the rest of our backline except De Gea is a mess

"Jose Mourinho told Chris Smalling: With your feet, we surely aren't playing from the back"

Jose Mourinho has revealed he told Chris Smalling that he wasn’t capable of playing the ball out from the back before Manchester United’s Europa League final win over Ajax.

United sealed a comfortable 2-0 victory in Stockholm to confirm their return to next season’s Champions League.

Speaking during a seminar at the University of Lisbon, Mourinho went through the details of his tactical plan for the Europa League final and admitted that he structured his system to minimalise Ajax’s strengths, as well as his own side’s weaknesses.

One of which, from Mourinho’s viewpoint, was Smalling’s inability to pass the ball out of defence without inviting pressure from Ajax.

And the United manager has revealed that to get around it, he instructed his defenders bypass the central midfielders.

^ i had enough of that bs tbh , it's been 8 years from him, see the keyword "inability to pass the ball WITHOUT inviting pressure and it's not just from ajax, it's from everyone else

so it's not like mourinho doesn't have any idea about how bad his footballing aspect is
it also means that whenever Mou played him , he is planning a hoofball tactic to be applied for our team, which of course sometimes works against high-line / strong pressing team
i hope you guys smalling apologist here isn't the same people who slate mourinho for using long ball tactic / defensive setup , one of the reason why it happens was because your fave defender is playing

 

[RedSky]

Chris Smalling best Manchester United defender by default

That is likely to be his biggest achievement, I can see it printed on his headstone...

I remember one time a muppet on the Caf once declared that Jones was better than Vertonghen.

Vertonghens had 43 clean sheets in a possible 103 games - 41.7% of the games he plays in is a clean sheet. Now that's what I call a proper CB.

 

[Ekeke]

"Jose Mourinho told Chris Smalling: With your feet, we surely aren't playing from the back"

so it's not like mourinho doesn't have any idea about how bad his footballing aspect is
it also means that whenever Mou played him , he is planning a hoofball tactic to be applied for our team, which of course sometimes works against high-line / strong pressing team
i hope you guys smalling apologist here isn't the same people who slate mourinho for using long ball tactic / defensive setup , one of the reason why it happens was because your fave defender is playing

Smalling didnt play in our loss against Bristol in the league cup (Well, he came on in the 93rd) It was Rojo and Lindelof. Romero had 22 long balls, Rojo 10, 5 from Lindelof, 4 from Darmian and so on.

We played 53 long balls that match.

So yes clearly Chris Smalling is the reason our defensive players hoof the ball up the pitch. He's the reason because we play less long balls when he's playing and he plays the least of our CBs.

 

[Antonedwin]

Smalling didnt play in our loss against Bristol in the league cup. It was Rojo and Lindelof. Romero had 22 long balls, Rojo 10, 5 from Lindelof, 4 from Darmian and so on.

We played 53 long balls that match.

So yes clearly Chris Smalling is the reason our defensive players hoof the ball up the pitch. He's the reason because we play less long balls when he's playing and he plays the least of our CBs.

you guys smalling apologist has only one trick , bringing other defender stats to justify smalling shite show and just from one game as well, it reminds me of rooney apologist.
i have seen smalling for 8 years , it's more than enough time to conclude everything about him

smalling run out of contract in 2019, if we want to cash in ,then this summer is the ideal time to do it, i don't see mourinho have any intend to extend his contract , he rates rojo and jones ahead of him , the only reason they didn't play more is because smalling has better injury record, rojo tore his ACL , it's not an injury that anyone can recover in short time even till today i don't think he is completely fit ,but one thing for sure he was picked ahead of smalling when they both fit

 

[Loublaze]

Chris Smalling best Manchester United defender by default

That is likely to be his biggest achievement, I can see it printed on his headstone...

Better than any other United CB at the moment. I thought your playerhating self quit this thread a month ago or so. Can't help yourself huh?

 

[Loublaze]

Yup, which seems bananas why anyone would want to sell him for the rest of the useless lumps below. Bailly's already missed more games in 2 seasons than Smalling has in 3 unfortunately (not calling Bailly a useless lump fyi).

Jones missed 58 games due to injury in previous 3 seasons - 35.4%
Rojo missed 55 games due to injury in previous 3 seasons - 33.5%
Bailly missed 33 games due to injury in previous 2 seasons - 31.4%
Smalling missed 24 games due to injury in previous 3 seasons - 14.6%

Injuries taken from transfermarkt.co.uk

We can take this a bit further by doing the following:

• Count the amount of clean sheets each player has been part of (must have played 45mins or more).
• Remove the injured games as the final total, so for example Jones missed 58 from a possible 164, so he'd have 106 games.

Smalling - 50 clean sheets from a possible 140 games - 35.7%
Bailly - 25 clean sheets from a possible 72 games - 34.7%
Rojo - 28 clean sheets from a possible 109 games - 25.7%
Jones - 27 clean sheets from a possible 106 games - 25.5%

Smalling with 50 clean sheets in 3 seasons isn't bad. Smalling with almost double the amount of clean sheets as Jones.

@Ultimate Grib calls BS

 

[Ekeke]

you guys smalling apologist has only one trick , bringing other defender stats to justify smalling shite show and it's just from one game as well

it reminds me of rooney apologist
smalling run out of contract in 2019, if we want to cash in ,then this summer is the ideal time to do it, i don't see mourinho have any intend to extend his contract , he rates rojo and jones ahead of him , the only reason they didn't play more is because smalling has better injury record, rojo tore his ACL , it's not an injury that anyone can recover in short time even till today i don't think he is completely fit ,but one thing for sure he was picked ahead of smalling when they both fit

I just checked the last time Bailly played in a CB duo (we went to 3 at the back after) that was against Southampton. We played 66 long balls with Jones and Bailly as our CBs.

Edit - 55 against Everton and 54 against Stoke in the previous 2 matches before Southampton, again with Jones and Bailly as our CBs.

Clearly we play long balls from the back very often regardless of whether Smalling is playing and you just want it to be his fault.

You remind me more of a holocaust apologist.

 

[MadMike]

I just checked the last time Bailly played in a CB duo (we went to 3 at the back after) that was against Southampton. We played 66 long balls with Jones and Bailly as our CBs.

You remind me more of a holocaust apologist.

 

[MikeKing]

you guys smalling apologist has only one trick , bringing other defender stats to justify smalling shite show and it's just from one game as well

it reminds me of rooney apologist
smalling run out of contract in 2019, if we want to cash in ,then this summer is the ideal time to do it, i don't see mourinho have any intend to extend his contract , he rates rojo and jones ahead of him , the only reason they didn't play more is because smalling has better injury record, rojo tore his ACL , it's not an injury that anyone can recover in short time even till today i don't think he is completely fit ,but one thing for sure he was picked ahead of smalling when they both fit

That is impressively hypocritical. Congratulations