[CA_vampire]

Jose not long ago pretty much publicly called him a wimp for not playing with a broken toe. What would you do?

It doesn't matter what I would do. Smalling is making millions. He has to earn them and make the right decisions in his job, I have to make the right decisions in my job.

In this particular instance, he could go to the midfield, or to our attack, or just stay out. He made the decision to go to our defense and that cost us a goal and two points. It was his fault. If he cannot make the right decisions then maybe he is not good enough for our team, the manager has to decide that. If I don't make the right decisions in my job, my manager has to decide if he wants to fire me. That's how life works.

 

[Ultimate Grib]

So much guess work and hypotheticals.

Yes, but as I said before we will never know any of that because of Smalling who cost us the 2 points. No guesswork in that.

Your premise that Smalling was keeping Maguire onside is patently false, I'm not interested in the rest of your conjecture

My argument works as a whole. Everyone was getting out and Young being closest to Maguire moved to leave him in an offside position while Smalling being totally unaware strolled back to keep him onside. We’ll never know anything that could have happened differently unfortunately because Smalling already ruined Christmas.

 

[SteveW]

Must be one of the most harshly judged players I've ever seen. Almost always the mainstay of our defense yet there always seems to be a queue of people lining up to say he should be sold or destroy him for even the slightest hint of a mistake. His latest crime is getting injured during a game and struggling to be able to move. Apparently because he had an injury he should have stayed out of the box for a set piece. He's 6'5. I don't think it was madness to want him in there. Did people want him on the half way line to lead a counter attack?

If it wasn't Smalling nothing would be made of it.

 

[Andersons Dietician]

Yes, but as I said before we will never know any of that because of Smalling who cost us the 2 points. No guesswork in that.



My argument works as a whole. Everyone was getting out and Young being closest to Maguire moved to leave him in an offside position while Smalling being totally unaware strolled back to keep him onside. We’ll never know anything that could have happened differently unfortunately because Smalling already ruined Christmas.

He didn’t cost us 2 points. Also they aren’t moving out, look at Jones body position, that isn’t someone moving out, that’s a guy heading back. DeGea should come and take the ball end of discussion.

 

[Darkhorsez]

Must be one of the most harshly judged players I've ever seen. Almost always the mainstay of our defense yet there always seems to be a queue of people lining up to say he should be sold or destroy him for even the slightest hint of a mistake. His latest crime is getting injured during a game and struggling to be able to move. Apparently because he had an injury he should have stayed out of the box for a set piece. He's 6'5. I don't think it was madness to want him in there. Did people want him on the half way line to lead a counter attack?

If it wasn't Smalling nothing would be made of it.

I really don’t get it either. I think when used to do the aimless possession and passing sideways, he was de facto chosen to pay for all our team and managers’ plays. Some of the stuff I read about him is brutally unfair.

 

[clarkydaz]

It doesn't matter what I would do. Smalling is making millions. He has to earn them and make the right decisions in his job, I have to make the right decisions in my job.

In this particular instance, he could go to the midfield, or to our attack, or just stay out. He made the decision to go to our defense and that cost us a goal and two points. It was his fault. If he cannot make the right decisions then maybe he is not good enough for our team, the manager has to decide that. If I don't make the right decisions in my job, my manager has to decide if he wants to fire me. That's how life works.

he was needed in defence. If we conceded whilst being upfront on his own you would be slating him for that aswell

 

[Lawman]

The way I saw the Leicester debacle was:

1-DDG wonderful GK that he is should have come of his line and punch or caught the ball.

2-Smalling should have positioned himself either at the front of the free kick on the 18. Certainly not picking up their main target when he’s unable to move.

3-Jones should have taken responsibility off Smalling and picked up Maguire or organised someone else to.

4- Our attack being dreadfully wasteful (Martial and Lingard guilty this game)

But in saying all this what we really do miss is a couple of leaders in our defence imo. It’s got to hurt more to lose a goal imo and usually we have been sound. But in this instance Keane Bruce Vidic Rio and Pally would have eaten that ball for breakfast in the last minute. They had 3-4 attempts at putting the ball in before the goal.
Smalling was trying to do the right thing but because he couldn’t move it was the wrong thing to do no doubt but no one could have foreseen this unless he communicates he’s really toiling. Poor and avoidable stuff. As Jose said immaturity in our play.
We can work on all this on the training ground but much easier and quicker to sign a couple of better players like Luiz and Sandro who whilst being good players and leaders also.

 

[Leftback99]

Maybe it was just a good ball. Other than Fellaini, I'm not convinced any of our players other than a fit Smalling would have dealt with it.

 

[Ultimate Grib]

He didn’t cost us 2 points. Also they aren’t moving out, look at Jones body position, that isn’t someone moving out, that’s a guy heading back. DeGea should come and take the ball end of discussion.

Look at the video, everyone is moving forward while Smalling is moving back unaware of what’s going on. Jones starts to move back once the ball is kicked.

That must be the end of discussion since you said it is

he was needed in defence. If we conceded whilst being upfront on his own you would be slating him for that aswell

He was absolutely not needed in defence especially since he couldn’t move. His presence led to confusion and we conceded the goal that ended up costing us 2 points.

 

[Andersons Dietician]

Look at the video, everyone is moving forward while Smalling is moving back unaware of what’s going on. Jones starts to move back once the ball is kicked.

That must be the end of discussion since you said it is

Well I suggest you watch it again as Jones is looking at the runner that goes across him and is moving back to go with him. They are not moving out as such to play offside. I’m not even sure if Jones is aware that Smalling is there.

 

[Ultimate Grib]

Well I suggest you watch it again as Jones is looking at the runner that goes across him and is moving back to go with him. They are not moving out as such to play offside. I’m not even sure if Jones is aware that Smalling is there.

When the ball ricochets to Albrighton everyone starts to come out including Jones. The only player falling back is Smalling. As he’s hitting it Jones changes body position to try and track his player. Pogba glances back to see if there’s cover and sees Smalling there so he moves closer to Jones allowing him to deal with that area. Young goes to run but Maguire has the run on him so he lets Smalling deal with it. There’s not even 2 seconds between the ball being hit by Albrighton and it ending up in the back of the net. Considering Young and De Gea with all the bodies in front of them would only see it up in the air I don’t know how you’d expect them to react and in De Geas case do a 4 yard dash at the same time to try and catch the ball.

I hate repeating myself but none of you seem to be accepting the facts of the goal. The video shows it clearly.

 

[breakout67]

Not really getting the criticism for Smalling, he was injured and so couldnt make the optimal play. He had a solid game except for when he was injured. The attackers that couldnt finish their dinner and Jones/Lindeloff strolling back for the 1st goal are far more important events.

 

[Andersons Dietician]

When the ball ricochets to Albrighton everyone starts to come out including Jones. The only player falling back is Smalling. As he’s hitting it Jones changes body position to try and track his player. Pogba glances back to see if there’s cover and sees Smalling there so he moves closer to Jones allowing him to deal with that area. Young goes to run but Maguire has the run on him so he lets Smalling deal with it. There’s not even 2 seconds between the ball being hit by Albrighton and it ending up in the back of the net. Considering Young and De Gea with all the bodies in front of them would only see it up in the air I don’t know how you’d expect them to react and in De Geas case do a 4 yard dash at the same time to try and catch the ball.

I hate repeating myself but none of you seem to be accepting the facts of the goal. The video shows it clearly.

Your interpretation of the video is what’s wrong because before that ball has even left Albrightons foot Jones is moving back. Also any keeper should be going to collect that I’m sorry, Smalling even tries to hold MacGuire so that DeGea has an easy collection. DeGea would hardly be going in to a mass of bodies. Obviously you’re entitled to your interpretation of events most just don’t agree with how you view it.

Do I think Smalling should be there no I don’t, but it had shifted to a back 3 with Wingbacks.
Also Pogba has no intention of going back there look at him, he’s not even thinking about it.

 

[Ekeke]

Depends if DDG called it. He should have done I agree, but if he didn't Smalling and the others should keep playing as if he wasn't going to.

And like I said upthread, none of this makes a difference to the fact Smalling had no idea Maguire was there.

He wasnt really supposed to. We had 2 CBs, Jones and Lindelof. We had a leftback who was tracking Maguire and then stopped in Young. And we have a goalkeeper who doesnt react to a ball played to 3 yards in front of his goal line. If DDG didnt call for it, thats another mistake

 

[Ekeke]

Absent Smalling and Young likely runs with Maguire, Pogba likely takes Smallings position and De Gea likely goes for the ball. Why? Because taking Smalling out of the equation means we others would have to be more alert ti the danger in that area so we likely wouldn’t concede that goal. He came on the pitch took that position and other team members wrongly relied on him to deal with it in that area and it cost us 2 points.

@Ekeke I won’t repeat myself on who’s mistake it is and why, if you read above you can see that your excuses have already been “debunked”.

You should go look up the meanings of the words you type, because all you've done is make excuses for your agenda and havent debunked anything.

 

[Ekeke]

When the ball ricochets to Albrighton everyone starts to come out including Jones. The only player falling back is Smalling. As he’s hitting it Jones changes body position to try and track his player. Pogba glances back to see if there’s cover and sees Smalling there so he moves closer to Jones allowing him to deal with that area. Young goes to run but Maguire has the run on him so he lets Smalling deal with it. There’s not even 2 seconds between the ball being hit by Albrighton and it ending up in the back of the net. Considering Young and De Gea with all the bodies in front of them would only see it up in the air I don’t know how you’d expect them to react and in De Geas case do a 4 yard dash at the same time to try and catch the ball.

I hate repeating myself but none of you seem to be accepting the facts of the goal. The video shows it clearly.

All of this is laughable. Young knows Smalling is injured and needs protection. He gets lazy and stops tracking him.

Maguire uses his feet to volley the ball in from 3 yards out. If De Gea comes with his hands as soon as he sees the cross coming in towards him he can catch it out of the air, Maguire isnt even trying to head the ball.

 

[Ultimate Grib]

All of this is laughable. Young knows Smalling is injured and needs protection. He gets lazy and stops tracking him.

Maguire uses his feet to volley the ball in from 3 yards out. If De Gea comes with his hands as soon as he sees the cross coming in towards him he can catch it out of the air, Maguire isnt even trying to head the ball.

That’s exactly the problem. He’s injured and shouldn’t be there and his presence causes confusion. He doesn’t limp back to his position so people think he’s not alright, he’s just jogging back normally. He should have just stayed off he pitch as there was more than enough bodies in defence with just a few seconds to go and Leicester were down to 10 anyway. His presence causes the goal for me so that’s why I think he costs us 2 points.

Now the rest of you can carry on excusing him as you have done over the years but the fact of the matter will remain that he’s bot good enough to be a squad player for Man Utd let alone a regular starter and should be shipped sooner rather than later. I’m done with this thread till his next brainfart.

 

[Hammondo]

Dear god we miss him already.

 

[Leftback99]

He's been holding our defence together for weeks. Was inevitable we'd struggle without him.

 

[villain]

That’s exactly the problem. He’s injured and shouldn’t be there and his presence causes confusion. He doesn’t limp back to his position so people think he’s not alright, he’s just jogging back normally. He should have just stayed off he pitch as there was more than enough bodies in defence with just a few seconds to go and Leicester were down to 10 anyway. His presence causes the goal for me so that’s why I think he costs us 2 points.

Now the rest of you can carry on excusing him as you have done over the years but the fact of the matter will remain that he’s bot good enough to be a squad player for Man Utd let alone a regular starter and should be shipped sooner rather than later. I’m done with this thread till his next brainfart.

Quelle surprise.

The very definition of an agenda poster.

 

[Red-17]

By far our best defender in the air and in general apart from Bailly. So sick of Rojo making daft challenges since he's been here. Even last year during his good season he should have been sent off 2 or 3 times.

 

[Loublaze]

That’s exactly the problem. He’s injured and shouldn’t be there and his presence causes confusion. He doesn’t limp back to his position so people think he’s not alright, he’s just jogging back normally. He should have just stayed off he pitch as there was more than enough bodies in defence with just a few seconds to go and Leicester were down to 10 anyway. His presence causes the goal for me so that’s why I think he costs us 2 points.

Now the rest of you can carry on excusing him as you have done over the years but the fact of the matter will remain that he’s bot good enough to be a squad player for Man Utd let alone a regular starter and should be shipped sooner rather than later. I’m done with this thread till his next brainfart.

Just go away and stay gone

 

[Ultimate Grib]

Just go away and stay gone

I wish I could but he’s still here and costing us points and while the majority agrees he’s not United quality unfortunately we have no other choice but to play him since better players are not available. Then the inevitable will happen that he will get criticised for his mistakes through no major fault of his own really, it’s just his level.

 

[The Mitcher]

I wish I could but he’s still here and costing us points and while the majority agrees he’s not United quality unfortunately we have no other choice but to play him since better players are not available. Then the inevitable will happen that he will get criticised for his mistakes through no major fault of his own really, it’s just his level.

How did he cost us that draw? He chose to stay on and keep our one man advantage, he was let down by all the other players failing to take their chances or making silly fouls.

 

[roseguy64]

Except Mourinho is only playing him due to Bailly’s injury.

He's played both of them together this season IIRC

 

[Robbie Boy]

We missed him today. Rojo has been a fecking joke since he's come back.

 

[Loublaze]

The fact that so many people question if he’s good enough or not gives you the answer.

Nobody ever doubted Rio or Vidic or Evra. Not in their prime years anyway. There was some questions asked during the start of their United career but Smalling has been here since 2010.

Same with your boy Rojo who is a total liability

 

[Axkiko]

Rojo was bad but are we missing Smalling? NO.

We are missing Bailly but definitely not Chris Smalling.

I am really curious the people said we actually missing Smalling. They have same problem, can’t pass a 5 yards ball and their defending are not good enough to cover their attacking weaknesses. If their defending is on top level, i dont give a s*** if they can’t pass. But they are not.

Him and Rojo are not United standard. We should get rid both of them.

 

[11101]

He wasnt really supposed to. We had 2 CBs, Jones and Lindelof. We had a leftback who was tracking Maguire and then stopped in Young. And we have a goalkeeper who doesnt react to a ball played to 3 yards in front of his goal line. If DDG didnt call for it, thats another mistake

Of course he was supposed to. He is the most experienced CB we have and he had positioned himself on the left side. You can see Jones look over and see him there and then stay central. Neither Jones nor Lindelof are at fault there.

Looking at replays you can see why DDG didn't collect. It was a high looping ball that went beyond his far post. It would be a huge risk to go for that but some keepers might.

Young should have tracked but as a CB you go for the ball when it's in your area, you don't turn away from the man and let him get a yard on you, and you definitely don't stop and let the ball sail over you assuming it's going out.

 

[Henry Gaervell]

I'd say that smalling has probably been our best defender this season, but that has largely been due to Victor's shaky start, Jones and bailley having injuries and rojo being fairly poor since coming back

In the summer I wanted him sold as I saw him as 5th choice and blocking a squad place for the likes of tunzebe. He's a good prem defender bit his limited technical ability and tendency to grab/ pull means he isn't good enough for a team with high ambitions

Giving our current injury and form issues at centre back, I'd keep him until the summer then look to offload. If we were desperate to sell a centre back to raise cash, I'd be looking to get rid of rojo. Great last season, but never had consistent form since joining, not a great ball playing defender and is very rash.

 

[11101]

Must be one of the most harshly judged players I've ever seen. Almost always the mainstay of our defense yet there always seems to be a queue of people lining up to say he should be sold or destroy him for even the slightest hint of a mistake. His latest crime is getting injured during a game and struggling to be able to move. Apparently because he had an injury he should have stayed out of the box for a set piece. He's 6'5. I don't think it was madness to want him in there. Did people want him on the half way line to lead a counter attack?

If it wasn't Smalling nothing would be made of it.

It's because he's the mainstay of our defence that I have a problem with him, he's nowhere near good enough for that. He's a bit like an Evans in that he's great when hes got better players next to him but he's a bit brainless when on his own.

Leicester's first was a good example. A top defender cuts out the obvious pass to Vardy and forces Mahrez on to his weaker side where Young is about to be. Anyone else does nothing and tries to react to what Mahrez chooses to do.

 

[MyOnlySolskjaer]

Definitely missed.

 

[DdeGoat]

The guy is the best defender in this team. Yes, even better than Bailly and Jones. He is the only one who can head the ball properly. Reads the game well, is good one on one and has good recovery pace. Him being clumsy on the ball has skewed people's view on his defending.

 

[Member 5225]

It doesn't matter what I would do. Smalling is making millions. He has to earn them and make the right decisions in his job, I have to make the right decisions in my job.

In this particular instance, he could go to the midfield, or to our attack, or just stay out. He made the decision to go to our defense and that cost us a goal and two points. It was his fault. If he cannot make the right decisions then maybe he is not good enough for our team, the manager has to decide that. If I don't make the right decisions in my job, my manager has to decide if he wants to fire me. That's how life works.

Agree word-to-word.
Life is a doggy-dog place, why are people defending the naivety!

 

[Oldyella]

It's because he's the mainstay of our defence that I have a problem with him, he's nowhere near good enough for that. He's a bit like an Evans in that he's great when hes got better players next to him but he's a bit brainless when on his own.

Leicester's first was a good example. A top defender cuts out the obvious pass to Vardy and forces Mahrez on to his weaker side where Young is about to be. Anyone else does nothing and tries to react to what Mahrez chooses to do.

That's hardly his fault though. You are basically holding him to a higher standard because he has stayed fit and available to be the mainstay. Bailly should be the defender our defence is built around but has had injury problems and the odd shaky moment himself. Jones and Rojo cannot stay fit and are mostly brainless. Lindelof has turned his form around, we should just put him in and leave him there now.

Would move Rojo and Jones on in the summer. Jones I might keep if he can prove he can stay fit for more than 8 or 9 games in a row.

 

[11101]

That's hardly his fault though. You are basically holding him to a higher standard because he has stayed fit and available to be the mainstay. Bailly should be the defender our defence is built around but has had injury problems and the odd shaky moment himself. Jones and Rojo cannot stay fit and are mostly brainless. Lindelof has turned his form around, we should just put him in and leave him there now.

Would move Rojo and Jones on in the summer. Jones I might keep if he can prove he can stay fit for more than 8 or 9 games in a row.

I'm holding them all to the same standard - are they good enough to be a first choice CB for us as title contenders?

Lindelof we dont know yet, Rojo probably not although before his injury Mourinho did get him playing better than Smalling ever has, Bailly probably is once we sort his ankle out, and Jones might be if he can ever stay fit.

With Smalling you know the answer. He's played enough for us to know he's a squad player at best so it's frustrating to see him out there every week playing to that level.

 

[Oldyella]

It's because he's the mainstay of our defence that I have a problem with him

I'm holding them all to the same standard - are they good enough to be a first choice CB for us as title contenders?

Lindelof we dont know yet, Rojo probably not although before his injury Mourinho did get him playing better than Smalling ever has, Bailly probably is once we sort his ankle out, and Jones might be if he can ever stay fit.

With Smalling you know the answer. He's played enough for us to know he's a squad player at best so it's frustrating to see him out there every week playing to that level.

Again, you are frustrated with Smalling simply as we have relied upon him this year when every other CB has broken down. Surely thats the epitome of a squad player? He's playing as no one else can stay fit and has done well. He's also won a title with us, although as a squad player as Rio and Vidic started to creak.

Will disagree re Rojo as well, he had a spell of about 7 or 8 games where he looked solid alongside Jones, but he was incredibly lucky not to be sent off in two of those games for brainless challenges and if thats his best he really should be nowhere near our first team. I would imagine Mourinho saw Bailly and Lindelof long term, but neither are great in the air.

 

[Red_toad]

He didn’t cost us 2 points. Also they aren’t moving out, look at Jones body position, that isn’t someone moving out, that’s a guy heading back. DeGea should come and take the ball end of discussion.

Fully agree, De Gea is having issues with crosses this season, yet fans pile in on our defenders for not dealing with said crosses.
Shame Mike wasn’t fit for Burnley game, no way they get that first goal with him at the back.

 

[MadMike]

I'm holding them all to the same standard - are they good enough to be a first choice CB for us as title contenders?

Lindelof we dont know yet, Rojo probably not although before his injury Mourinho did get him playing better than Smalling ever has, Bailly probably is once we sort his ankle out, and Jones might be if he can ever stay fit.

With Smalling you know the answer. He's played enough for us to know he's a squad player at best so it's frustrating to see him out there every week playing to that level.

So with Smalling you know the answer but you don't know it with Rojo or Jones?

Jones has been here for 6 years and has been constantly in & out of the squad with injuries. He's been, on average, missing 15 games per season through injury alone, which is more than double that of any other CB. Consistent for 6 years. If you don't know by know that this trend is unlikely to change as he gets older, then you'll never know. Not that I rate him extremely highly, but he's definitely good enough in my opinion when fit.

With regards to Rojo, he is for me the Litmus test of forum warriors in here. Whoever professes a like for Rojo on these boards, I immediately consider them a terrible judge of CBs. No ifs, no buts, no coconuts.
- He is meh in the air.
- He gets put on his arse by any decent dribbler (ergo a terrible man marker).
- His aggressiveness becomes petulance when he's shown up or wound up. So he gets involved in spats and picks up many unnecessary yellows and what should be many reds for hitting out on players. Has terrible discipline, the worst of all our CBs.
- He gives away many free-kicks in dangerous positions and penalties by brainlessly going to ground when he should stay on his feet. He is very rash.
- He's a serial hoofer of the ball, worst of all our CBs. If Smalling hoofed the ball half as much as Rojo does or surrendered possession as frequently, he'd be massacred in here.

This is Rojo's 4th season here. He didn't arrive yesterday. If after all this time you haven't deduced these major flaws about Rojo's game, there is simply no hope for you. Amuses me how people still cling unto maybe a couple of good months that he had last season playing next to Jones. And as @Oldyella said, he could (and should) have been sent off at least once for hitting out on players during that spell.

There's a reason that despite a CB arriving in each of the last 3 summer windows, Smalling still plays the most of all of them. He stays fit more than anyone else, he is a consistent performer who makes the fewest mistakes, he is dominant in the air, he has good discipline (rarely gets suspended), he is actually a very good marker. He'll never be a Rio Ferdinand Rolls-Royce type of defender, but he's certainly here on merit and, as it's become evident by our acquisitions over the last few years, quite a difficult one to improve upon.

I'm still looking forward to your rants every time a defender fecks up and you try to blame it on Smalling though. Enjoyable reading if not anything else. Have a happy new year <3

 

[Foxbatt]

I am not his biggest fan and have been very critical of him but he could not be held responsible for any of the goals conceded against Leicester. He did brilliantly for the first goal, holding up Mahrez while Jones was jogging back. Jones should have been sprinting back with Vardy and even should have taken a yellow for a foul inside their own half. Instead he was simply jogging back.
For the second goal the team has to take responsibility and Jose says he passed the information to Young but it never got to the players. So there it is.