[MikeKing]

I think Mike's best season is yet to come with a proper CB next to him, so far it was him raising the game of players around him, you could notice he complements well any of our CBs, playing less aggressively with Bailly and Rojo and more with Blind. Glad he's gonna have a rest and go to the tour to cement his place, in fact all of our cbs bar Jones will have a chance to create some sort of relationship on tour which is good ahead of the next season..

I think so too. After his injury troubles and being played at RB he has what 4-5 years now as a CB? 28 years old, playing with different partners as you say and most of that time always part of a somewhat dysfunctional team. Last season I think he convinced Mourinho and will be trusted upon this season as a clear first choice which will either convince a lot of the haters if we win something big, and if we don't he will get slated no matter what type of performances he's been putting in. As it has been these last few years.

This thread I don't like to accuse people of not watching games, and i don't think its that, but I think its so obvious a lot of people have agendas which alter their opinions on almost everything United related and whatever doesn't fit into their newfound perspective gets the blame, the hate and frustration. Shitting on Smalling's defensive skills, effort and performances he's put in for the team, to justify why we attack badly is one of those things.

 

[MyOnlySolskjaer]

Always sad to see our fans with fundamental lack of understanding with regards to Defenders and defending. We've been lucky to have had the likes of Rio and Vidic at the club in the past 10 years and a lot of fans didnt learn from what they were doing on the pitch.

Smalling is a very, very good defender. He's just little else. No bells and whistles or fancyness thats going to see Real Madrid and Barcelona try to sign him. He just does his job as a CB very well.

Couldn't agree more.

 

[K2K]

Nigerian defender caught out for shirt pulling.

With VAR I fear for Smalling .

 

[Oldyella]

Nigerian defender caught out for shirt pulling.

With VAR I fear for Smalling .

VAR didn't flag it up did it?

 

[K2K]

VAR didn't flag it up did it?

No..

But I expect it to flag similar incidents on future.

5 penalties just today.

 

[Ashley R1+O]

His Twitter page is absolutely hilarious. Looks like his only fanboys congregate here for the mutual appreciation. Seriously hoping there's an ounce of substance in the West Ham rumours. Couldn't care less where he goes though to be fair. I'll take the bench for now if we get a proper CB this season.

Cringeworthy post. This thread is a total mess, if we got another proper CB then we'd have two proper CB's. Lets get two proper fullbacks and continue to let Bailly and Lindelof settle before we go doing anything stupid like letting our best defender go because some random people on the internet have a conniption every time the ball goes to his feet. Keep whiffing those "smalling is shit on the ball, therefore hes shit, get rid" farts if that keeps you going.

We've gone through the looking glass on defenders being able to use the ball and forgotten that defenders need to defend first. Reality bites.

 

[RedPed]

Cringeworthy post. This thread is a total mess, if we got another proper CB then we'd have two proper CB's. Lets get two proper fullbacks and continue to let Bailly and Lindelof settle before we go doing anything stupid like letting our best defender go because some random people on the internet have a conniption every time the ball goes to his feet. Keep whiffing those "smalling is shit on the ball, therefore hes shit, get rid" farts if that keeps you going.

We've gone through the looking glass on defenders being able to use the ball and forgotten that defenders need to defend first. Reality bites.

Funny how Mourinho can get slaughtered week in week out for every little thing on here but Smalling is bizarrely untouchable. Fanboys like you are fortunately in the minority when it comes to Smalling but somehow always seem to shout the loudest.

You carry on!

 

[Ashley R1+O]

Fanboys like you

horrendous poster. Ignore.

 

[Amar__]

Funny how Mourinho can get slaughtered week in week out for every little thing on here but Smalling is bizarrely untouchable. Fanboys like you are fortunately in the minority when it comes to Smalling but somehow always seem to shout the loudest.

You carry on!

You do realise some of you lot are actually criticising him and continuing a debate over him celebrating new season on twitter. And then you accuse his fanboys of defending him.

 

[OnlyTwoDaSilvas]

It's tiresome that thinking a footballer is good in their respective position makes you a 'fan boy'. Like appreciating Martial means that you support "Martial FC" or whatever. For some reason, it's a negative to be positive about individuals in the squad, yet ragging on individuals repeatedly and constantly moaning about how they're utter shit without context or anything that adds to the discussion is somehow not a negative.

Nobody here is claiming Smalling is untouchable. Those who think Smalling is a good player make points as to why they think he's good, which is obviously open to debate. Those who don't like him just seem to repeat the same old "he's shit on the ball" ad infinitum, even right after games where he didn't particularly do anything wrong with the ball, or they bump the thread just to unnecessarily slag him off for no other reason than him commenting on the United fixture list. In another thread, Smalling seemed to shoulder all of the blame for our build up play being non-existent which has resulted in Sanchez struggling, which is a bit mental. If our build up play is suffering, then the playmakers in the squad should be shouldering a greater proportion of that blame than him. He's a defender, he defends first and foremost, and he's pretty solid at it. He's not amazing, but he's proven to be very good and reliable, much much more so than any other option we have right now.

If there is anyone who is "bizarrely untouchable", its Bailly. He's talked about like he is already world class, when he's just had a stinker of a season where he was either injured or was having a bit of a mare.

 

[Ekeke]

Funny how Mourinho can get slaughtered week in week out for every little thing on here but Smalling is bizarrely untouchable. Fanboys like you are fortunately in the minority when it comes to Smalling but somehow always seem to shout the loudest.

You carry on!

Untouchable? Of course not. Just appreciated for what he is by a few fans.

 

[Isotope]

Nigerian defender caught out for shirt pulling.

With VAR I fear for Smalling .

If you were referencing that penalty Nigeria conceded, you have a weird definition of "shirt pulling".

 

[cyberman]

He must be sat there laughing his ass off watching this

 

[red4ever 79]

No idea how Jones got in the squad ahead of Mike

 

[arnie_ni]

He must be sat there laughing his ass off watching this

Maguire losing the ball twice in dangerous areas. Walker giving away a pen. He'll be loving it

 

[pseudo_canadian]

No idea how Jones got in the squad ahead of Mike

Jones I can understand.

Stones being selected has me completely baffled.

 

[Andersons Dietician]

Jones I can understand.

Stones being selected has me completely baffled.

Stones start of the season was really really good, was probably the best defender in the league for a while, then he got injured. Jones hasn’t been good where as Smalling has.
Have to say some of the games I’ve seen recently in the WC, people go on about Smalling tugging shirts. Never seen him do anything as bad as some of the wrestling today. There was a guy in the Belgium game wrestling Lukaku and it was ridiculous.

 

[K2K]

This thread will be bumped with every goal that England concede.

 

[SteveW]

It's tiresome that thinking a footballer is good in their respective position makes you a 'fan boy'. Like appreciating Martial means that you support "Martial FC" or whatever. For some reason, it's a negative to be positive about individuals in the squad, yet ragging on individuals repeatedly and constantly moaning about how they're utter shit without context or anything that adds to the discussion is somehow not a negative.

Nobody here is claiming Smalling is untouchable. Those who think Smalling is a good player make points as to why they think he's good, which is obviously open to debate. Those who don't like him just seem to repeat the same old "he's shit on the ball" ad infinitum, even right after games where he didn't particularly do anything wrong with the ball, or they bump the thread just to unnecessarily slag him off for no other reason than him commenting on the United fixture list. In another thread, Smalling seemed to shoulder all of the blame for our build up play being non-existent which has resulted in Sanchez struggling, which is a bit mental. If our build up play is suffering, then the playmakers in the squad should be shouldering a greater proportion of that blame than him. He's a defender, he defends first and foremost, and he's pretty solid at it. He's not amazing, but he's proven to be very good and reliable, much much more so than any other option we have right now.

If there is anyone who is "bizarrely untouchable", its Bailly. He's talked about like he is already world class, when he's just had a stinker of a season where he was either injured or was having a bit of a mare.

Good post. I agree with every word

 

[Buchan]

I still believe Southgate not taking Smalling will, ultimately, be the decision which ends up costing him his job. There’s not a defender of note in that squad, or certainly none of the quality of Smalling.

Appalling decision.

 

[Ekeke]

This thread will be bumped with every goal that England concede.

It'll probably be bumped quite often then

 

[red4ever 79]

Jones I can understand.

Stones being selected has me completely baffled.

Stones in the first half of the season reached a far higher ceiling than calamity Jones can ever dream of reaching. Plus Southgate clearly fancies a back 3, you would take Stones over Jones every day of the week, twice on Sundays

 

[MikeKing]

England passed the ball mostly a lot between the CB's, not really committing men forward, keeping the ball without quick transitions, playing a high-line with defenders stealing the ball in front of the lone attacker, do short passes and the midfield recycles again. And to top it off, they seemed only a bit dangerous on set pieces. Ironic but predictable. I thought it was impossible for a team to play this way without Smalling in the side. Maybe a good thing then he didn't go, as at least people can't give him the blame for everything anymore Not for England anyway

 

[Blatzo]

If anybody can be arsed watching the game again in full look for commentators early doors gushing about England playing the ball around the back. Watch what Tunisia do when they lose the ball (all drop behind the halfway line and set up 2 defensive banks). They're waxing lyrical about players passing a ball with literally zero pressure.

...watch what happens when Tunisia go a goal down. They start to press, England panic and manage to get a goal kick from smashing the ball against an attackers shins.

The idea that England have a ball playing defense is absolute tripe and is a piss poor excuse by Southgate for not taking a defender that he has some sort of personal problem with.

As I'm writing this I've just listened to Kyle Walker throw Trippier (the best player on the pitch) under the bus for his own awful piece of defending. I'm finding this England team hard to support.

 

[ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg]

If anybody can be arsed watching the game again in full look for commentators early doors gushing about England playing the ball around the back. Watch what Tunisia do when they lose the ball (all drop behind the halfway line and set up 2 defensive banks). They're waxing lyrical about players passing a ball with literally zero pressure.

...watch what happens when Tunisia go a goal down. They start to press, England panic and manage to get a goal kick from smashing the ball against an attackers shins.

The idea that England have a ball playing defense is absolute tripe and is a piss poor excuse by Southgate for not taking a defender that he has some sort of personal problem with.

As I'm writing this I've just listened to Kyle Walker throw Trippier (the best player on the pitch) under the bus for his own awful piece of defending. I'm finding this England team hard to support.

Don’t worry about it, you won’t be missed.

 

[saivet]

If anybody can be arsed watching the game again in full look for commentators early doors gushing about England playing the ball around the back. Watch what Tunisia do when they lose the ball (all drop behind the halfway line and set up 2 defensive banks). They're waxing lyrical about players passing a ball with literally zero pressure.

...watch what happens when Tunisia go a goal down. They start to press, England panic and manage to get a goal kick from smashing the ball against an attackers shins.

The idea that England have a ball playing defense is absolute tripe and is a piss poor excuse by Southgate for not taking a defender that he has some sort of personal problem with.

As I'm writing this I've just listened to Kyle Walker throw Trippier (the best player on the pitch) under the bus for his own awful piece of defending. I'm finding this England team hard to support.

Not how I saw it, just explained what he was doing. A typical I'm leaving it type signal, but obviously the flailing arm hit their player. One reflection a pen and silly thing to do, but one he will learn from.

 

[Blatzo]

Not how I saw it, just explained what he was doing. A typical I'm leaving it type signal, but obviously the flailing arm hit their player. One reflection a pen and silly thing to do, but one he will learn from.

I'm not sold on the idea he was making an "I'm leaving this" gesture and I'm not entirely sure why he's doing that in that part of his box in the first place.

But even if he was and it was a perfectly good choice for a defender in that position there's no reason for him to mention Trippier shouting for it apart from to try and shift the blame.

He said that trippier shouted for it and next time he'll just head it and ask questions later.. or words to that effect. That's the opposite to the relationship you want from your defenders. Isn't it?

 

[Blatzo]

Don’t worry about it, you won’t be missed.

Thanks for taking the time to consider what I've written, offer insightful counter arguments and contribute to the discussion.

 

[ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg]

Thanks for taking the time to consider what I've written, offer insightful counter arguments and contribute to the discussion.

No problem... we all know Smalling is a limited player, but within those limitations is a good defender, but he’s not suited to the system that England are playing. I like Smalling, but pleased that Southgate is actually looking at developing a team, rather than playing the 11 players who are there based on reputation/ who they play for. He has a system, and a way of playing that do not play to Smalling’s strengths.

If you can’t get behind the national team because a Utd player is not playing, I will restate, you won’t be missed.

 

[Amar__]

The biggest trick that Southgate pulled is convincing England fans that he'll do better with ball playing CBs. Who aren't really great with the ball anyway.

 

[edgar allan]

No problem... we all know Smalling is a limited player, but within those limitations is a good defender, but he’s not suited to the system that England are playing. I like Smalling, but pleased that Southgate is actually looking at developing a team, rather than playing the 11 players who are there based on reputation/ who they play for. He has a system, and a way of playing that do not play to Smalling’s strengths.

If you can’t get behind the national team because a Utd player is not playing, I will restate, you won’t be missed.

Not an England fan but I was impressed at the way they tried to play the ball out especially in first half. Not the best opposition but still

 

[Classical Mechanic]

I still believe Southgate not taking Smalling will, ultimately, be the decision which ends up costing him his job. There’s not a defender of note in that squad, or certainly none of the quality of Smalling.

Appalling decision.

Taking Smalling to the first major tournament with VAR would be idiotic.

 

[ti vu]

Not an England fan but I was impressed at the way they tried to play the ball out especially in first half. Not the best opposition but still

The thing is it's not about the coach having different idea than his predecessors. The question is what would they do if their plan A would be proven to be weak against better opposition? Ball playing with supposed worse ball playing players from the bench?

 

[edgar allan]

The thing it's not about the coach's plan A. The question is what would they do if their plan A would be proven to be weak against better opposition? Ball playing with supposed worse ball playing players from the bench?

Well that remains to be seen, not lumping the ball forward every time was a nice change and if sterling , Rashford or Lingard actually had an end product they could be dangerous

 

[Blatzo]

No problem... we all know Smalling is a limited player, but within those limitations is a good defender, but he’s not suited to the system that England are playing. I like Smalling, but pleased that Southgate is actually looking at developing a team, rather than playing the 11 players who are there based on reputation/ who they play for. He has a system, and a way of playing that do not play to Smalling’s strengths.

If you can’t get behind the national team because a Utd player is not playing, I will restate, you won’t be missed.

And Louis Van Gaal had a philosophy...

That's me being deliberately flippant. This is just my opinion but I think this illusion that we have a "system" will be the undoing of this England side. And I think it's an excuse for Southgate to make decisions that are personal rather than reasoned. I hope I'm wrong.

Anybody can pass the ball around under zero pressure. When they were pressed today they struggled.

It seems that the majority in this thread (and you yourself from the above quote) are accepting that England have sacrificed some defensive prowess for the sake of being able to pass the ball out from the back.

My assertion is that we don't have a team who can do that. They were found out today when they were pressed and they will be found out again against better teams. If I am shown to be wrong about this as the tournament progresses quote me - post all the gifs of our slick defensive passing - I'll be celebrating with you and accepting I was wrong.

Chris Smalling not being in the squad isn't my line in the sand for whether or not I can support a team. Listening to people making excuses for their actions instead of owning them definitely turns me off though.

 

[Blatzo]

The biggest trick that Southgate pulled is convincing England fans that he'll do better with ball playing CBs. Who aren't really great with the ball anyway.

This is how I feel in a nutshell.

Taking Smalling to the first major tournament with VAR would be idiotic.

I agree with this though!!!

 

[ti vu]

Well that remains to be seen, not lumping the ball forward every time was a nice change and if sterling , Rashford or Lingard actually had an end product they could be dangerous

Just because it's nicer on the eye doesn't mean anything. I meant basically you treat the tournament as training ground, not that you believe you can go far and prepare yourself to do the best. Even Spain, Portugal used a fair bit of long ball and expect hold up play from their forwards.

 

[ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg]

It seems that the majority in this thread (and you yourself from the above quote) are accepting that England have sacrificed some defensive prowess for the sake of being able to pass the ball out from the back.

My assertion is that we don't have a team who can do that. They were found out today when they were pressed and they will be found out again against better teams. If I am shown to be wrong about this as the tournament progresses quote me - post all the gifs of our slick defensive passing - I'll be celebrating with you and accepting I was wrong.

You are right, I think it is a payoff between being able to play the ball and being a pure defender, unfortunately for England, there are very few players who can do both well - Ferdinand the obvious exception. My wider point is that Southgate appears to have a plan, and is not shoe-horning players into square pegs, which is what so many England managers have done.

Don’t worry I won’t be quoting you or posting videos/ gifs if we go on and do well - thankfully I have better things to be doing whatever the outcome of the WC. But hopefully, we will both be celebrating in a few weeks.

 

[edgar allan]

Just because it's nicer on the eye doesn't mean anything. I meant basically you treat the tournament as training ground, not that you believe you can go far and prepare yourself to do the best. Even Spain, Portugal used a fair bit of long ball and expect hold up play from their forwards.

I agree there is no point playing it around for the sake of it but in the first half they turned defence quickly into attack and were very positive. I was impressed,it was very un-england like

 

[Oldyella]

Taking Smalling to the first major tournament with VAR would be idiotic.

Why though? We have seen much worse than he does in two games today with no penalties given.

Personally think Smalling should have gone, but fair fecks to Southgate for sticking to his guns. Picking the best pure cb he has would of been easiest choice to make but he wants them to try and play a certain way and is going for it. Rough on Mike though.