[Robbie Boy]

Jones' average score was almost a full point above that of Smalling yesterday, and to my eyes, Smalling was far superior in his defensive work whereas both were woeful in terms of distribution.

I've never understood how slagging someone off (wrongly may I add) is a just cause to vindicate someone else. If not pathetic, it is plain wrong.

Well I didn't vote on the match and I don't pay too much attention to the ratings on here. If I scored both, I would give them a 5 each. Both were poor and in truth, our whole defence was abysmal.

I really don't get the current trend on here of people slagging off others just to defend their favourite players. At least be consistent and give your favourites criticism too when warranted. That poster saying that Rojo gave the ref a decision to make in relation to the peno is just plain sad. It's sad that he has to resort to criticising others to praise Smalling (the same Smalling who was as bad as anyone last night). Also, had Smalling given that peno away, you're guaranteed that same poster would be here calling anyone a 'hater' who dared say he gave the ref a decision to make.

 

[Jaybomb]

Shits the pants more than Johnny Evans ever did I'm afraid. Needs a leader next to him, can't lead by example. Very rushed and panicked lately.

Jonny Evans wasn't extraordinary by any means but he was better than Smalling. Better on the ball and read the game better. Played really well alongside Ferdinand in 12/13 too when Vidic was injured.

People say Smalling had a good season last season... but where did it get us? We didn't get top 4. So he clearly wasn't that amazing.

 

[Vault Dweller]

I think he is one of the players we should be looking to move on in the summer. If we are looking to be competing at the highest level for trophies I don't think he is a player who can take us there. I think other options we have currently are better on the ball, I think he lacks composure and panics on the ball too often. At one point in the game last night he ran the ball out of play, despite there being 10 yards or so of space between him and the Hull player, who had not even advanced towards him. He is one of the few players we have that, when he has the ball, I genuinely feel uncomfortable and I'm unsure that he is going to be able to retain possession. I had high hopes for him as I thought at times in the past he could turn into a really good center-half, but I just don't see it any more unfortunately.

 

[Virgil]

I echo the sentiments of many in believing that there is little sense in slagging off one of our players simply to justify ones preference for another. Smalling is capable, as he showed last season, of being a competent defender. What worries me is that the whole should be greater than the sum of the parts and certainly this year our defence has looked far less secure on most of the occasions that Smalling has played. Why that should be who knows but it is worrying. Coincidence maybe. What is true is that last night the Jones/Rojo central pairing had been performing well yet all three of them performed poorly. Could it possibly have been because Jones and Rojo were both played out of position to accommodate Chris?

 

[izec]

Take 20m and run. Same for Fellaini.

 

[Shimo]

He always does look awkward. I don't understand you think it's just today. And his defending is shaky to say the least.

I wouldn't say he is ever elegant but, there have been plenty of times where he has been very confident on the ball - last night he just seemed a lot more panicked for whatever reason.

 

[sizzling sausages]

Jonny Evans wasn't extraordinary by any means but he was better than Smalling. Better on the ball and read the game better. Played really well alongside Ferdinand in 12/13 too when Vidic was injured.

People say Smalling had a good season last season... but where did it get us? We didn't get top 4. So he clearly wasn't that amazing.

Quite a strange way of looking at it. Our defence wasn't the reason we didn't get top 4, lack of goals was.

 

[RikRuud]

Really needs to improve his distribution, suffers without a Blind or Bailey beside him.

 

[stevoc]

This thread is becoming eerily similar to the Evans thread a few years back. That one turned ugly too after a bad performance in a 4-0 loss funnily enough.

 

[RikRuud]

This thread is becoming eerily similar to the Evans thread a few years back. That one turned ugly too after a bad performance in a 4-0 loss funnily enough.

I think the fans are just frustrated with his apparent regression. It's a strange one hope he keeps his place I think it's the only way he can get back to form.

 

[stevoc]

I think the fans are just frustrated with his apparent regression. It's a strange one hope he keeps his place I think it's the only way he can get back to form.

His regression shouldn't be all that surprising though. He played the early part of the season with a broken toe and on the left side where he's never really played. He's recently only got back into the side after a long injury lay off so it will take time for him to regain form.

Smalling's never been and likely never will be a truly world class defender. But when fit and on form there's few if any better in England.

 

[Loublaze]

Jonny Evans wasn't extraordinary by any means but he was better than Smalling. Better on the ball and read the game better. Played really well alongside Ferdinand in 12/13 too when Vidic was injured.

People say Smalling had a good season last season... but where did it get us? We didn't get top 4. So he clearly wasn't that amazing.

That's a stupid statement. Is it Smallings fault our attackers didn't do their job? Martial came into the team as a teen and got 17 goals. We depended on him way too much. Smalling and Blind got the most clean sheets and United were joint with Spurs on least goals conceded. Your clear bias and hatred knows no bounds does it?

 

[C'est Moi Cantona]

Really needs to improve his distribution, suffers without a Blind or Bailey beside him.

The chance for this to ever happen has gone now though, he just hasn't progressed in that aspect of his game.

I'm not having a dig at him becasue he is good at other parts of the game, and if he can view himself as a backup option then that's fine, but first choice needs to be much better imo.

 

[Zoo]

Jones was worse yesterday. But yeah Smalling's composure on the ball has been really poor in his past 2 games, he is better then that. Am hoping it's just rustiness from lack of regular action.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Jones was worse yesterday. But yeah Smalling's composure on the ball has been really poor in his past 2 games, he is better then that. Am hoping it's just rustiness from lack of regular action.

Rustiness? It's been like 6 years.

 

[Loublaze]

Rustiness? It's been like 6 years.

He wasn't this bad last season. Surely you remember. It was kinda sad too that you'd attribute our poor form of late to his return to the team, like its his fault our attackers are not taking their chances.

 

[sunama]

Yeah that's nonsense really, we kept the ball so much that the whole team drifted up the pitch.

Usually Smalling was defending counter attacks on the halfway line and equipping himself extremely well.

Seems to have regressed though.

If we had so much possession last season (which we did) and Smalling was so good at cutting out attacks, why was DDG required to make wonder saves in so many matches we played?
This will be the first season (in a long time), where DDG won't be getting POTY because our defence is actually defending and preventing the ball from reaching our DDG.

As long as he is in a team playing ultra defensively (eg. using the park the bus tactic), he'll do very well. In fact, I think he'd be a monster.
Last season we were ultra defensive and Smalling was our best defender.
This season, he is probably 4th choice.

 

[Grunge]

If we had so much possession last season (which we did) and Smalling was so good at cutting out attacks, why was DDG required to make wonder saves in so many matches we played?
This will be the first season (in a long time), where DDG won't be getting POTY because our defence is actually defending and preventing the ball from reaching our DDG.

As long as he is in a team playing ultra defensively (eg. using the park the bus tactic), he'll do very well. In fact, I think he'd be a monster.
Last season we were ultra defensive and Smalling was our best defender.
This season, he is probably 4th choice.

And exactly why he'll remain a big part of this team. IN the past I remember Smalling taking off on a run through the middle. Often quite well because he does have decent balance and good foot skills at times ... but as you point out, that was also what led to relying on big saves. Truth is, he's pretty reliable with good players around him & he's got a great deal of experience, including some international games. That, will pay dividends as this season comes to the sharp pointy bit!

 

[Loublaze]

Well I didn't vote on the match and I don't pay too much attention to the ratings on here. If I scored both, I would give them a 5 each. Both were poor and in truth, our whole defence was abysmal.

I really don't get the current trend on here of people slagging off others just to defend their favourite players. At least be consistent and give your favourites criticism too when warranted. That poster saying that Rojo gave the ref a decision to make in relation to the peno is just plain sad. It's sad that he has to resort to criticising others to praise Smalling (the same Smalling who was as bad as anyone last night). Also, had Smalling given that peno away, you're guaranteed that same poster would be here calling anyone a 'hater' who dared say he gave the ref a decision to make.

You're clearly talking about me so you might as well mention my name

 

[POF]

That poster saying that Rojo gave the ref a decision to make in relation to the peno is just plain sad.

Sad and wrong. The referee gave the penalty for a push by Jones. He pointed to the spot and then directly at Jones identifying him as the culprit. I'm amazed how many seem to think it was for a foul by Rojo.

Quite a strange way of looking at it. Our defence wasn't the reason we didn't get top 4, lack of goals was.

Equally, it wasn't the defence that won the title in 2012/13. United had the worst defensive record in the top 4.

I think the fans are just frustrated with his apparent regression. It's a strange one hope he keeps his place I think it's the only way he can get back to form.

Is it really strange? Jose was at pains to point out at the start of the season that there were drastic changes that needed to be made to the way United defend. More orthodox, less "follow the man". He mentioned unlearning everything over the previous 2 years. Smalling was the mainstay of the defence in that period learning a very unorthodox defensive style. He is the main one who needed to unlearn and relearn the defensive structures.

He missed the whole preseason and a large chunk of the season injured so this transition was happening during the season. Is it really surprising that he shows hesitancy and uncertainty in his decision making?

I still think the secret to the success of the Rojo/Jones partnership is the international break before the Arsenal game where they had time to work on their defensive structure as a partnership and the consistent run of games that followed. Smalling needs that more than any other defender at the club.

 

[Champagne Football]

He'll definitely be gone in the summer. He's a Crystal Palace level defender. At both England and Utd he's never been part of a solid defense in a team that wins games consistently..Van Gaals neanderthal possession game made Smalling look a lot better than he is due to the endless boring side-wards passing from the midfielders resulting in fewer opposition attacks

 

[Nate Dogg]

Even when he was Mike Smalling he was still shit, he will be a goner in the summer.

 

[Zoo]

Even when he was Mike Smalling he was still shit.

Except he wasn't.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

He wasn't this bad last season. Surely you remember. It was kinda sad too that you'd attribute our poor form of late to his return to the team, like its his fault our attackers are not taking their chances.

I thought he was class until December last season, still not great on the ball but the way we played suited him and he was defending brilliantly Lou.

But his 2016 was awful I think, his form dropped off a cliff and he got worse at 2016 wore on.

 

[Amar__]

I understand people not rating him, but to want to get rid of him is stupid even for average caftard who wants to sell every player. We would left only on Bailly who could be trusted as a CB, and Rojo and Jones who can't stay fit for 20 games per season and had about 2 months of good form but yet are trusted enough to replace Smalling. Some posters never fail to amaze with their logic.

 

[sizzling sausages]

I understand people not rating him, but to want to get rid of him is stupid even for average caftard who wants to sell every player. We would left only on Bailly who could be trusted as a CB, and Rojo and Jones who can't stay fit for 20 games per season and had about 2 months of good form but yet are trusted enough to replace Smalling. Some posters never fail to amaze with their logic.

To be fair the people that want to seel him want him to make way for a new signing so it'd be those 3 plus whoever that signing was and centre back isn't really a position that needs much rotating anyway.

 

[Jaybomb]

I understand people not rating him, but to want to get rid of him is stupid even for average caftard who wants to sell every player. We would left only on Bailly who could be trusted as a CB, and Rojo and Jones who can't stay fit for 20 games per season and had about 2 months of good form but yet are trusted enough to replace Smalling. Some posters never fail to amaze with their logic.

Sell him and use the money to get someone better in... or just give Tuanzebe a chance.

 

[3KDré]

Tuanzebe needs a loan, not being a sub here where he will get minimal time. I would be fine with getting rid of Smalling if we had a suitable replacement but we don't.

 

[Ish]

Quite a strange way of looking at it. Our defence wasn't the reason we didn't get top 4, lack of goals was.

This.

That's a stupid statement. Is it Smallings fault our attackers didn't do their job? Martial came into the team as a teen and got 17 goals. We depended on him way too much. Smalling and Blind got the most clean sheets and United were joint with Spurs on least goals conceded. Your clear bias and hatred knows no bounds does it?

And this.

One of the more absurd opinions or statements I've read on here.

 

[Jaybomb]

Tuanzebe needs a loan, not being a sub here where he will get minimal time. I would be fine with getting rid of Smalling if we had a suitable replacement but we don't.

How do you know we won't get a better replacement? We signed Pogba and Zlatan, I'm sure we could attract a better experienced CB like Bonucci, Pepe or Chiellini if we cough up the funds.

Van Dijk would be a big improvement on Smalling in my opinion. Offers everything Smalling does physically and can actually play football.

 

[Lentwood]

Seems to spread fear and uncertainty across the entire back four. Absolutely shocking on the ball and i think this season has shown him to be below the level needed to start for a top 4 club

 

[adamwest]

Are we really debating Smalling's quality on the ball? He's an accident waiting to happen when pressed, and lacks the vision and nous to pick a pass at all times. He can defend well, that's not in question, but as a footballer he's way short of what we should have as the rock in our defence.

 

[3KDré]

How do you know we won't get a better replacement? We signed Pogba and Zlatan, I'm sure we could attract a better experienced CB like Bonucci, Pepe or Chiellini if we cough up the funds.

Van Dijk would be a big improvement on Smalling in my opinion. Offers everything Smalling does physically and can actually play football.

I didn't say we won't I said we don't have one. There's a big difference between the two words.

 

[Amar__]

To be fair the people that want to seel him want him to make way for a new signing so it'd be those 3 plus whoever that signing was and centre back isn't really a position that needs much rotating anyway.

Sell him and use the money to get someone better in... or just give Tuanzebe a chance.

Because just throwing money on CBs means you get quality defence. We should consult City about that.

 

[sizzling sausages]

How do you know we won't get a better replacement? We signed Pogba and Zlatan, I'm sure we could attract a better experienced CB like Bonucci, Pepe or Chiellini if we cough up the funds.

Van Dijk would be a big improvement on Smalling in my opinion. Offers everything Smalling does physically and can actually play football.

Van Dijk isn't worth anywhere near the amount of money it'd take to sign him, imo. People say Smalling's good form last season was due to our defensive system but fail to mention that Southampton play quite a defensive system themselves. Van Dijk is very good with the ball so would definitely suit us in that regard but I think Smalling is better defensively.

 

[Jaybomb]

I didn't say we won't I said we don't have one. There's a big difference between the two words.

Tuanzebe and Fosu Mensah could easily be better. We won't know till we play them.

 

[3KDré]

Tuanzebe and Fosu Mensah could easily be better. We won't know till we play them.

Fosu Mensah and Tuanzebe are great talents who need consistent playing time, not the odd sub appearance here and there. We need to loan these players out.

 

[Jaybomb]

Fosu Mensah and Tuanzebe are great talents who need consistent playing time, not the odd sub appearance here and there. We need to loan these players out.

No we need to play them.

 

[roseguy64]

Watched the match just now to see why people were slagging him off and couldn't see why. His defending was fine. Distribution wasn't great but it wasn't awful. Was looking to see some big error he made and didn't spot it. Wondered what all the outrage was for.

 

[DWelbz19]

Watched the match just now to see why people were slagging him off and couldn't see why. His defending was fine. Distribution wasn't great but it wasn't awful. Was looking to see some big error he made and didn't spot it. Wondered what all the outrage was for.

It really is just confirmation bias. On both sides now.