Either way, I'm not wrong about Smalling and thats the main thing here..
12
Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 36
- Clean sheets
- 18
- Goals
- 2
- Assists
- 2
- Yellow cards
- 0
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Either way, I'm not wrong about Smalling and thats the main thing here..
Good post. Of course his passing isn't the best, but Jones and Rojo haven't been better nor has Darmian. So to use that as a stick to beat Smalling with without saying anything remotely positive is agenda driven when it's the same posters every time.
Talking about him being poor because he looks awkward in possession is just rubbish, for instance, as style isn't that important. I'm sure you remember Bratseth, hardly an example of style, but a good defender still
Not sure what your argument was after all of your prophesies. Just trolling with you,mate!
Terrible
Long Balls:
Darmian 6(1 accurate)
Rojo 6(2)
Jones 6(2)
Smalling 5(2).
Apparently Smalling is our only defender who is hoofing the ball and the only one with terrible distribution. All others are great.
Darmian 6(1 accurate)
Rojo 6(2)
Jones 6(2)
Smalling 5(2).
Apparently Smalling is our only defender who is hoofing the ball and the only one with terrible distribution. All others are great.
When he is off form he just brings on panic in the defense. Our build up play from the back was atrocious and he was a big part of the problem (but not the only culprit). Would love him to get back to his form of the start of 15/16 but wondering if he ever will.
We can't counter attack enough because half the time we win it back and transition he wastes it by panicking and slicing it out of play.
Not the only one but by far and away the worst culprit.
Not the only one but by far and away the worst culprit.
Noting out the negatives isn't agenda driven, just as noting out the positives is not agenda driven.
Agenda driven means that you've got a hidden motive behind your actions, very few go into threads with the idea that they'll talk shit about a player without having noticed anything they feel isn't noteworthy, and those who do and are in the wrong tend to be laughed at and ask if they're actually watching the game.
(Mind, when someone is agenda driven most replies to them are that way, not just one or two who uses it to play down others genuine understanding of the game.)
If anything, you can call people negative, but you can't expect people to come in here during or after a match, looking to critiquing (or praising) him, to praise (or critique) him at the same time just to balance it out. People in general will look to get an outlet for their frustrations or share their happiness then and there, and have a proper discussion later on; and that's when the one-sided people are so hard to discuss with.
I'm not going to say that my side or your side is right, as we won't know that until after the fact, but the only agenda anyone here (that is a United fan) has is that we want the best for the club.
Edit to respond to the second part of your post:
How they do stuff, isn't that important as long as it's is successful, so yeah, style isn't what people should moan about, but it isn't really what they are pointing out either. They say that he looks bad on the ball, and know that he historically has a fair few brainfarts that has cost us in the past, so they get nervous when he is on the ball and don't look like he feels sure about what he is doing.
There is a link between the players history and how people feel about how they look. For example there was a time when Rafael looked fantastic, and we'd feel certain that our right-side was top notch, but then there were periods where he looked too aggressive and a red card waiting to happen.
With Smalling, people note out when he looks poor on the ball, or nervous (whether he is or not), and that reflects on how they think the match will go. That doesn't mean they are agenda driven, just that they've noted down the negative or positive things in their history and that they project that history onto what they see.
Jones is another example, he always looked weird doing shit, like his crawling-block for example. It's not stylish, and a better defender could've snuffed the chance earlier without having to resort to it, but it worked, so people love him for it and praise him for his attitude. He was ultimately successful and got praised instead of bashed for it.
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Him and Jones just didn't look at all comfortable tonight. Physically he's good alright.
He made some good defensive contributions today. Some godawful moments on the ball though.
Last season, he looked to have come a long way with his ball playing. Made good runs and passes out of defence. He shits it every time at the moment.
Last season, he looked to have come a long way with his ball playing. Made good runs and passes out of defence. He shits it every time at the moment.
NO! You must never include stats. Watch the game with your own eyes and that will tell the whole truth and nothing but the truth. It's how the myth about Carrick only passing sideways or backwards was created.
Fair enough, but there is, for a United supporting forum, a tendency to focus on the negatives instead of the positives. Smalling was our best defender today, and as Amar pointed out, he actually played the long ball less than the other defenders, yet Smalling gets stick for doing it. He also pretty much won every header, whilst Jones almost cost us a goal losing out to Niasse (which I doubt Smalling would have).
Jones has been great this season, but today he deserves some criticism, not Smalling. Smalling looks clumsy, but is not as clumsy as it would look. Looking at his stats, his passing is mostly pretty accurate with around 90% pass rate, which is very good.
Whats your source could you please share it?
Wasnt terrible but wasnt great either. Looks nervous at times.
Whoscored
Probably our best defender not saying much though. Mainly because everyone else was panicky.
His decision making on the ball and general awareness really needs work though. Clearing it aimlessly when he can easily keep it under control or trying to pass it out when pressured.
His decision making on the ball and general awareness really needs work though. Clearing it aimlessly when he can easily keep it under control or trying to pass it out when pressured.
I don't think he was that bad, the entire back four looked shaky. He did what he had to do at times when under pressure.
He's turned into a jittery bag of nerves and his distribution is terrible.
He was genuinely fantastic for the first half of last season and I thought he'd cracked it but that seems a long time ago now.
He was genuinely fantastic for the first half of last season and I thought he'd cracked it but that seems a long time ago now.
That back-four are all useless on the ball. Smalling is the only one who appears genuinely terrified in possession though.
Has to be Smalling's missus or mum.
He is fecking horrid on the ball. Can you imagine playing Real, Barca or Atletico in the CL and having them press this clown on the ball. We'd be guaranteed hiding.
Distribution is a problem. The worst on the ball of our CB. Fully expect him to be dropped now Bailly is back.
He's not good on the ball but realistically he was our least shit defender tonight.
Horrible footballer, mentally weak and tactically blind. Keeps allowing himself to be dragged out of position easily. Cant organise or communicate thats why he needed blind beside him to be at his best. Worst thing is when he has a bad game he panics and mentally shuts down and becomes a massive liability. Hes no longer young, we need to shift him on and get someone better in. Only plus side is his homegrown status will get us a decent fee.
He was all over the shop in the first half, looks so awkward on the ball.
I can't believe some of you lot think Smalling ' s passing is on par with Rojo. Rojo is a better passer than Herrera imo. It is simply impossible to build up from the back with Smalling in the team.
The thing is, those stats doesn't show what kind of passes it is.
(granted, due to our conversation i didn't get to watch much of the second half as I didn't have two monitors today)
Getting 90% accuracy if most of your passes are to the sides or back to the keeper isn't hard, and it doesn't mean it's productive passes. People want a defender to not be afraid and waste time getting us through their front-line with back-passes if a forward option is possible and brings us into good attacking situations.
That's mainly why I think people toss away those stats quite easily as the argument for Smalling being good/ok on the ball. They look at the situation and judge it to be a bad move, or a far from optimal one. Doesn't mean they're right, but it's within their privilege to comment on it as long as they do it within the rules of the forum.
Due to me not getting to watch the second half in details, i obviously cannot comment on the Jones/Smalling part of today, for me neither of them were huge negatives or positives during the first half which is why i didn't come into the thread (for once) to talk shit about Smalling, but was more curious about the page being at the top again and if someone saw something i didn't.
I'll go by what you say of him being our best defender today as fact, does that mean he did great, or acceptable? Considering Darmian, Jones and Rojo getting stick and is asked why they aren't getting called out for their faults, you'd think he was the best of a bad bunch today since we lost this match 2-1 (and won on aggregate) and all defenders and quite a few players gets called out for bad performances, Smalling also being noted out for his part in it.
I do want to point out that despite my next comment being criticism of Smalling, it also applies to others.
If Smallings passes had been better, maybe the midfielders and his partners in defense would've done better? If they thought he could and would execute forward passes well, they'd move into position expecting it rather than expecting a side-ways pass, back-pass or a "hoofball" up to the opposition? It's something that is both down to the manager drilling players into having good attitudes that work for the team, but also down to the players to do the work, but it does affect the performances of the people around you.
As for the general negativity, I kinda agree, but I'm very much part of the problem myself rather than the solution as I am a very emotional being who put way too much into how my team does. It's human nature to be negative when there is something negative to point out. Or as in the way off-the-track example of bullying, you can wrap up a piece of paper, but it won't be perfectly fine once you try and stretch it out to its original state, it needs more. In the same way in the world of football, what offsets negativity is winning / the good feeling you get from winning or playing nice football. I see that as why people had more patience with players like Tom Cleverly & Anderson than with Jesse Lingard & CBJ. We were winning while Anderson and Cleverly was around, so despite them getting stick for their shit, I belive they'd get way more if they were playing today.
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Fair play @Ødegaard, your posts are very balanced and well structured, in here.
Thank you, @Robbie Boy. 
These are some Trump-esque alternative facts right here.
Yep, he's getting his criticism across in a well balanced way, which you can't really argue with.
That wasn't a penalty tonight.
I genuinely think it's good when people take the time to explain why they have a particular point of view instead of snide digs etc. He's definitely doing making his points and backing up what he's saying.
Never a peno. Smalling going down in their box was far more of a peno.
Yeah, it was incredibly soft. But that kinda backs up my point, that it's strange that only Smalling seems to get regularly criticized for it when it happens at every corner and is very rarely penalized. Rojo wasn't grabbing anywhere near as much as Smalling often does tbf but it shows that it's not just Smalling that does it.
What has happened to him? He looks so cumbersome and overawed.
Shits the pants more than Johnny Evans ever did I'm afraid. Needs a leader next to him, can't lead by example. Very rushed and panicked lately.
He scares me when the ball is at his feet.
Darmien is "great", says who @Amar__? Who has ever claimed anything of the sort, Darmian is a nightmare on the ball.
Jones and Smalling were crap tonight, 66% PA is shocking for 2 CB's playing against Hull, yet you're trying to use stats to back Smalling up somehow?
He's not more then mid table quality. So out of his depth whenever he plays
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