[OnlyTwoDaSilvas]

Looking at the replay, I don't see why Smalling is getting all the pelters for the goal. His positioning isn't the best, but Herrera is much more at fault, though Herrera is often invincible to criticism, for some reason.

Leadbitter is Herrera's man. He tracks Leadbitter's run, but as soon as Negredo knocks the ball down, he stops tracking him, and he's free to run at goal unopposed. If Herrera doesn't give up tracking him, it's preventable. He can put pressure on and push him away from goal, poke it out for a corner, etc. Why does Herrera stop dead? Smalling's reaction appears to be similar. He immediately turns to Herrera as the ball hits the net.

Smalling is anticipating the cross to come in the space between the CBs and the goalkeeper. It doesn't because it deflects off Rojo, spinning it away from goal. He could have been tighter to Negredo, but he wasn't really going to be near the cross if not for the deflection.


Personally, I'm not a fan of Mourinho's tactic of having full backs tuck right in, and not going out to meet the wide man until the ball is played out there. It gives the attacker a lot of time to line up a cross. It's happened a lot and we are poor at stopping crosses. Rojo was right next to Smalling as Boro switch the play, and Valencia the same on the other side. It takes an age for Rojo to get out there and apply pressure. Not his fault, as it's clearly tactical instruction, as we do it every game.

 

[spiriticon]

Smalling is 4th choice centre back now and needs to work harder to gain his place back. That I totally agree with because he is shite out of form.

But to say he's been consistently bad for the last few years is utter rubbish. He's been the best defender and it was just 6 months ago that Jones and Rojo were clinging on to his coat tails.

 

[villain]

I don't think this part is true tbf. All of our defenders are harshly judged on here, I don't think people realise just how hard it is to go a full game without making any mistakes. And unfortunately for defenders their mistakes often lead to goals.

I don't think so, Blind, Bailly & Jones have been at least partially responsible for goals that cost us points but I guess because of the Chelsea game, when it's Smalling - he's an overrated defender, not United quality, LVG made him look good etc.

 

[villain]

Looking at the replay, I don't see why Smalling is getting all the pelters for the goal. His positioning isn't the best, but Herrera is much more at fault, though Herrera is often invincible to criticism, for some reason.

Leadbitter is Herrera's man. He tracks Leadbitter's run, but as soon as Negredo knocks the ball down, he stops tracking him, and he's free to run at goal unopposed. If Herrera doesn't give up tracking him, it's preventable. He can put pressure on and push him away from goal, poke it out for a corner, etc. Why does Herrera stop dead? Smalling's reaction appears to be similar. He immediately turns to Herrera as the ball hits the net.

Smalling is anticipating the cross to come in the space between the CBs and the goalkeeper. It doesn't because it deflects off Rojo, spinning it away from goal. He could have been tighter to Negredo, but he wasn't really going to be near the cross if not for the deflection.


Personally, I'm not a fan of Mourinho's tactic of having full backs tuck right in, and not going out to meet the wide man until the ball is played out there. It gives the attacker a lot of time to line up a cross. It's happened a lot and we are poor at stopping crosses. Rojo was right next to Smalling as Boro switch the play, and Valencia the same on the other side. It takes an age for Rojo to get out there and apply pressure. Not his fault, as it's clearly tactical instruction, as we do it every game.

Good analysis, Herrera should have tracked his man all the way, it left Smalling having to defend 2 people in a small pocket of space.
He could have done better, but by no means deserving of the overreaction, especially when Herrera doesn't get criticised, ever.

 

[Ødegaard]

See, this is the shit that annoys me on here. Why the need to downplay the amount of time he's been good for? He was very good in van Gaal's first season too, besides the City game (which his detractors still bring up for some reason). He was then excellent for the first half of last season, before falling off in the second half. Although he still wasn't half as bad as people now make out. Even when Moyes was manager he was impressive, being one of our best players in the games against Bayern.

As for him being a fringe player, it was only really in Fergie's last season where he was undoubtedly a sub even when fit. In all other seasons here he's generally been in the team when fit.

I said he was great for 6 months.
He is a good defender, just not good enough or stable enough to one out of two main men.
I don't want us to have a defense based on 1 good defender and 1 based on whoever the feck is injured, I want us to have two nailed on starters in defense.
He's 27 now, and besides those 6-ish months he was great he has not proven to me that he is good enough to be one the two main men, that is why I'm being harsh on him. I don't think the managers will buy an extra top class CB because we have so many. I want a top class partnership with good backups like the old days, not players who are good enough for the squad to fight it out for a spot.
How people wish the squad to be plays a large part in how and why they criticize players. Someone needs to go for us to sign a new CB in my eyes, and I couldn't care if it was Smalling, Jones or Rojo, as long as that CB comes in and makes me 100% certain we have a good main duo.
You could argue it's down to patience, some of you still think Smalling will get back into that form and keep it as he has the tools physically to be a beast defender, but others like myself have lost the patience and belief in Smalling ever becoming that guy. Doesn't mean we lack the memory of his good games and periods like Smalling-fans say we do.

The goal was as a result of a lack of concentration and he wasn't the only person at fault either. It was his first start a few months and made one mistake, before that he cleared his lines well, was aerially dominant and made no mistakes.

When our other defenders make the same mistakes they aren't judged as harshly as Smalling.

He isn't good enough to be a starter right now, considering Rojo & Jones' improvement, but to suggest he's not good enough period is ridiculous.

Put Carrick in front of the back 4 like RoJones have had, and he'll put in similar performances as them, which shows great depth we have in defence.

It's not about this one goal, it's about the quality over a longer time.
When Bailly fecked up, we moaned about that as well, but it was his first feckup so it's easier to accept, and as long as he is playing well in general it can be said to be "incidents" instead of a lack of ability or mental fortitude that makes it a likely recurrence. With Smalling, brainfarts has become a recurrence for a lot of us, and so we don't view him as good enough. As mentioned before he has the physical ability in spades, but as a 27-year old centre-back he is supposed to be in his prime, and apart from a short period where he was a beast, he has shown himself to be a good but not great CB. Good lead us to Ashley Young like players in the starting XI, you'd want them in the squad but not as main men in top teams, that may be good enough for some of you, but it certainly isn't for me.

 

[sunama]

For the above reasons, logically, I would not choose Smalling, over the other 3 CBs, listed above.

I got a lot of flack for this comment, merely 10 days ago.
The problem is not 1 good/bad performance or error. The problem is that whenever he is put under pressure (no midfield to protect him), he can't prevent an attacker from shooting, as was proved by the fact that last season DDG was repeatedly having to make wonder saves. If Smalling was such a rock, why was DDG making save after save and collecting MOTM performances? Since Jones/Rojo have played, DDG has not been getting MOTM awards. Why is this? Could it be because they are preventing shots on our goal?

A lot of people rate Smalling based on what he did a season ago. By this reasoning, we should not sell Memphis then, because he was fantastic for PSV. Or what about Morgan - lets keep him based on what he did 2 seasons ago.

For me, right now Jones/Rojo are a great pairing with a good understanding. Baily is our best CB, though. Smalling is No.4.

In any case, we shall wait and see how the season progresses. Smalling still has a role to play in our defence, to cover injuries and we don't know just how good Jones/Rojo will be over the long term.

 

[villain]

It's not about this one goal, it's about the quality over a longer time.
When Bailly fecked up, we moaned about that as well, but it was his first feckup so it's easier to accept, and as long as he is playing well in general it can be said to be "incidents" instead of a lack of ability or mental fortitude that makes it a likely recurrence. With Smalling, brainfarts has become a recurrence for a lot of us, and so we don't view him as good enough. As mentioned before he has the physical ability in spades, but as a 27-year old centre-back he is supposed to be in his prime, and apart from a short period where he was a beast, he has shown himself to be a good but not great CB. Good lead us to Ashley Young like players in the starting XI, you'd want them in the squad but not as main men in top teams, that may be good enough for some of you, but it certainly isn't for me.

And this is why I said Smalling is judged more harshly than our other defenders.
Rojo has spent his United career either being a liability, or being so underwhelming we as fans preferred to play CBJ over him. Jones hasn't had an injury free season in about 5 years? And good to average performances when he has played.
Now they've had a run of games in our most settled & highly performing team post-SAF, and suddenly they are unquestionably our best defenders.

The narrative now is that LVG's system made Smalling look good, in actual fact he played with a terrible back 4 with 3 other players who weren't natural players in the position they were playing, and we still managed to equal the best defensive record.
You can say the defensive system is set up to make defenders look good, but you still need quality defenders to stop goals being scored - otherwise West Brom, Stoke etc would end up with the best defensive records year in year out.

I don't think there's much difference in quality between all of our defenders, it would be ideal to find another world class CB, but reality isn't as easy as that, and I'm happy we have such depth.

 

[Loublaze]

He doesn't come across as a defender who will sit out doing nothing while the striker close to him scores the goal

This is a nothing assessment. Who was marking Lidebitter? Herrera was sleepwalking there and it put Smalling in bad position against two players, one let scot free to make a run in the box. A midfielder FFS

 

[devilish]

This is a nothing assessment. Who was marking Lidebitter? Herrera was sleepwalking there and it put Smalling in bad position against two players, one let scot free to make a run in the box. A midfielder FFS

He should have tried to do something. Instead he stayed there like a sitting duck. My views regarding Smalling remain the same though. We shouldn't sell him. However unless Mou manages to take the strawman to the Wizard of Oz, then he simply needs somebody to do the thinking for him

 

[Steven7290]

And this is why I said Smalling is judged more harshly than our other defenders.
Rojo has spent his United career either being a liability, or being so underwhelming we as fans preferred to play CBJ over him. Jones hasn't had an injury free season in about 5 years? And good to average performances when he has played.
Now they've had a run of games in our most settled & highly performing team post-SAF, and suddenly they are unquestionably our best defenders.

The narrative now is that LVG's system made Smalling look good, in actual fact he played with a terrible back 4 with 3 other players who weren't natural players in the position they were playing, and we still managed to equal the best defensive record.
You can say the defensive system is set up to make defenders look good, but you still need quality defenders to stop goals being scored - otherwise West Brom, Stoke etc would end up with the best defensive records year in year out.

I don't think there's much difference in quality between all of our defenders, it would be ideal to find another world class CB, but reality isn't as easy as that, and I'm happy we have such depth.

Not really, they have been performing well, exceptionally better than themselves and of course better than what Smalling has shown this season, in the same system. You are only as good as your last game and Mike's last couple games have been somewhere from meh to bad.

 

[villain]

Not really, they have been performing well, exceptionally better than themselves and of course better than what Smalling has shown this season, in the same system. You are only as good as your last game and Mike's last couple games have been somewhere from meh to bad.

I'm not denying that. but in context - Mike's last games have either been while carrying an injury or fresh from injury and lacking fitness. And without Carrick in front of the back 4, RoJones have had the security of Carrick in every game they've played in so far.

I don't even think you can say Smalling played badly today, Boro were nullified in the first half due to our dominance, but when they did attack both Smalling & Bailly dealt with them comfortably. Only when Herrera lost possession after our 2nd corner is when they threatened us.
Similarly in the second half, Herrera stopped tracking his man and left Smalling having to mark 2 players at once, it's not like he was flailing and struggling, it was just a lapse of concentration.
Chelsea was a bad game, this was average.

 

[Loublaze]

He should have tried to do something. Instead he stayed there like a sitting duck. My views regarding Smalling remain the same though. We shouldn't sell him. However unless Mou manages to take the strawman to the Wizard of Oz, then he simply needs somebody to do the thinking for him

Did you harshly criticize Jones like this when he made Delaney (the player he was on) look like Messi with his heel pass that cut our defence open when Crystal Palace equalized in the recent win there?

 

[Dion]

The lengths people will go to defend him.

He should have destroyed everything within a square mile of the ball for the cross that lead to their goal, Vidic and Stam would have been investigated for crimes against humanity if anyone had tried to get on the end of that other than them.

Totally braindead, passive defending.

 

[Mike09]

Why is he getting the abuse on this thread? I don't think it was his fault for the goal. I thought it was more on Herrera. Smalling had two men to cover in that situation. If it was Carrick instead of Herrera, we could have prevent the goal. I think Smalling is the only our centre back who hasn't play with Carrick in front of him this season.

 

[peridigm]

I know Jose was resting Jones and Rojo for Monday but if Smalling can't step in for a game against Boro and defend a simple cross he ain't good enough for United.
Props to Jose for pulling him off and going for the comeback. I hope we sign a defender this window. We are fecked if Jones gets crocked.

 

[devilish]

Did you harshly criticize Jones like this when he made Delaney (the player he was on) look like Messi with his heel pass that cut our defence open when Crystal Palace equalized in the recent win there?

Of course I did, why?

 

[The United]

I am not even smalling's biggest fan around but it kind of amazes me with all the negative reactions here.

I wonder sometimes people like to talk shit about a player because they want 'a new player' in his position.

 

[the unknown one.]

It was his first game in months and he made a relatively minor error.

Get off his back.

Mike Smalling .

 

[OnlyTwoDaSilvas]

I know Jose was resting Jones and Rojo for Monday but if Smalling can't step in for a game against Boro and defend a simple cross he ain't good enough for United.
Props to Jose for pulling him off and going for the comeback. I hope we sign a defender this window. We are fecked if Jones gets crocked.

He defended many simple crosses with good aerial challenges. The cross that resulted in the goal took a deflection off Rojo's calf which spun it away from goal and away from where Smalling was anticipating, and the goal scorer was Herrera's man who he just stopped tracking.

But it's all Smalling's fault.

 

[Irrational.]

I thought Bailly was the worst CB out of the two. Both looked rusty as hell, which is understandable given their lack of game time.

Subbing Smalling off for Rashford was a great move.

 

[Pexbo]

It was his first game in months and he made a relatively minor error.

Get off his back.

Mike Smalling .

Needs to be remembered.

 

[PlayerOne]

First game in a while, so we shouldn't expect too much. I thought he looked nervous though and hesitant.

Rojo and Jones should come in for the next game, but I hope Smalling picks up some form, we will need him.

 

[Ødegaard]

And this is why I said Smalling is judged more harshly than our other defenders.
Rojo has spent his United career either being a liability, or being so underwhelming we as fans preferred to play CBJ over him. Jones hasn't had an injury free season in about 5 years? And good to average performances when he has played.
Now they've had a run of games in our most settled & highly performing team post-SAF, and suddenly they are unquestionably our best defenders.

The narrative now is that LVG's system made Smalling look good, in actual fact he played with a terrible back 4 with 3 other players who weren't natural players in the position they were playing, and we still managed to equal the best defensive record.
You can say the defensive system is set up to make defenders look good, but you still need quality defenders to stop goals being scored - otherwise West Brom, Stoke etc would end up with the best defensive records year in year out.

I don't think there's much difference in quality between all of our defenders, it would be ideal to find another world class CB, but reality isn't as easy as that, and I'm happy we have such depth.

Judged more harshly?
I don't rate any of Rojo/Jones/Smalling as good enough (to be a main defender). What I've seen so far from Bailly I rate high enough to be one of two main CB's, if Smalling had kept going with the form he was in for that period he was great, he would've been good enough.
Rojo was accepted as trash and has surprised people with acceptable performances, it doesn't mean that people rate him as a great CB.
Jones was always to injury plagued to get a decent run and because of that has been made a into a joke, and unlike a ton of players who get praised as the best thing ever while they've been injured, Jones has always had that "have to prove himself" thing hanging over him.
Smalling is the one I've rated highest of them due to his great form over those months, but I don't think any of them are good enough (at their average level) to be a main man at a top defense, so for me they need to be squaddies (at their age), or the club suffers.

Sorry for repeating myself now, drugs are starting to kick in so it's starting to affect me. (painkillers, in case you guys aren't aware of my situation)

 

[Devil may care]

He was caught out on the goal, totally unaware of his box, but I maintain he will struggle when made to operate as the LCB.

 

[Dante]

I am not even smalling's biggest fan around but it kind of amazes me with all the negative reactions here.

I wonder sometimes people like to talk shit about a player because they want 'a new player' in his position.

That's exactly it.

Before this it was Rojo. Before that it was Jones.

All four of our CBs have the quality to stay here for years to come and credit themselves at the highest level.

 

[Sylar]

Yeah he wasnt good for the goal, but tbh, I just dont think hes generally good when he plays as LCB. Im pretty sure his best games have been on the right, he just doesnt look comfy at all playing on this side.

 

[CM]

I am not even smalling's biggest fan around but it kind of amazes me with all the negative reactions here.

I wonder sometimes people like to talk shit about a player because they want 'a new player' in his position.

There have been a few looking for any excuse to bash him and Shaw after the Chelsea game or since Mourinho's criticism of them from the Swansea game.

It definitely wasn't one of Smalling's better games but not nearly bad enough to justify this reaction. Blind was (in my opinion) our worst player today and hasn't had anything like the same criticism.

 

[Grunge]

We have a great dilemma at the CB position and Jose knows it. We have a very young, yet very experienced group of four who may (or may not) all go on to become superstars with United. I hope they all do!
Considering the length of time out due to injury, I think Smalling played well enough today to suggest he will continue to get a regular spot in the even if it's only from the subs bench until it is abundantly clear which are the first two, in Jose's mind, are picked to the 1st eleven team sheet each week. I actually think he and Bailly might be our best combination. His height is something Jose likes (I think that's why Fellaini gets so much time on the pitch he's just the biggest midfielder we have) Smalling has eliminated a lot of the early mistakes, improved his positional play, can carry the ball forward and while a long way from perfect yet, I think we've all seen all-round improvement. Like most players, he needs to see regular action, which, given the number of matches we have upcoming, he'll get.

btw I picked Smalling to play today but didn't figure Jose to change BOTH his CB's and play Smalling with Bailly
Maybe Jose really trusts all four and from now on will will simply alternate with Jones & Rojo one game and Smalling with Bailly the next?

 

[POF]

This thread.

Smalling is now one of those players that so many people have taken a strong position on that it seems impossible for there to be a reasonable discussion on him.

He has incredible talent but seems a quiet type of guy who lacks confidence which can make him indecisive at times. He was easily the best defender across the 2 years of LVG's reign (people have short memories but there was absolute amazement when LVG lined him out in his "second team" in his second pre-season).

I still think Jose sees Bailly and Smalling as his first choice and I think it is a defence with huge potential if Jose can work with them. It was always going to take time for Smalling after he spent 2 years learning a nonsensical "follow the striker" defensive approach under LVG.

The strength of the Jones/Rojo partnership was built from the preparation time during the international break before Arsenal at home. They were incredibly well drilled and their partnership grew from there. Smalling missed all of pre-season and then picked up another injury after winning his place back in the team. If he can get a run of games to build a partnership with Bailly (or even stay fit long enough to work on it in training), I think he will improve significantly under Jose.

 

[Tarrou]

It wasn't his man. There wasn't much chance to win the header with the way the cross was sort of mis-hit to the edge of the box, and he got caught between his man and the runner who should have been tracked. Partly at fault, sure, but not completely.

Other than that thought he was OK and don't understand why everyone is losing their shit. He's been a good player for us, never caused a problem, or complained, and people are ripping into him over one mistake.

 

[Dion]

As the LCB it was has job to win that ball, it was in his area. Who he was marking doesn't come into it, he heads that out past the half way line and it doesn't matter who he's supposed to be marking.

 

[Manny]

His first game back, but I've said it before, he struggles to defend the box.

He's a good defender if he gets to play 15-20 yards from his box and gets to use his pace and strength to work the forward of the ball, but when he's defending inside the box, he's too slow to react, one footed and cumbersome.

He definitely benefitted from LvG wanting to play further up the pitch.

 

[POF]

As the LCB it was has job to win that ball, it was in his area. Who he was marking doesn't come into it, he heads that out past the half way line and it doesn't matter who he's supposed to be marking.

Excellent insight. A centre back should definitely not worry about who he's picking up and his only thought should be winning the ball when it's in "his area".

As that ball came in he was never going to win it ahead of Negredo. The mistake he made was moving towards the ball and not dropping off to track the runner.

 

[Dion]

Excellent insight. A centre back should definitely not worry about who he's picking up and his only thought should be winning the ball when it's in "his area".

As that ball came in he was never going to win it ahead of Negredo. The mistake he made was moving towards the ball and not dropping off to track the runner.

His positioning was awful, he's tight to his man as the ball is going to Chambers then inexplicably he keeps running towards goal. He realises his mistake too late, makes another runs towards Negrado (who actually has read the flight of the ball) but can't get anywhere near it.

Smalling is in a decent position here, close to Negrado and defending the edge of the box like Bailly. Ready to win any ball that might be played into the box.

Here is mistake number 1. Instead of defending the 18 yard line like Bailly and staying close to Negrado he drops off into no-mans-land. Pogba is slow to track Traore but not out of position enough that if Chambers lays it off he wouldn't be able to get goal side and slow him down. Either way Smalling has to track Negrado into the box closely or it would be a simple cutback for Traore.

This isn't necessarily a disaster as Chambers decides to cross rather than play the throughball. Smalling can no longer win the ball but as long as he holds his position and doesn't follow that arrow he can defend the knockdown as Negrado only has 1 option.

Instead he pushes up with no hope of winning the ball, compounding his initial error and leaving that huge space for Negrado to play the ball into which he is unable to defend.

This leaves Leadbitter through on goal and he doesn't miss. Because Smalling has sold himself he's unable to turn his momentum and defend the knock-down.


Yes, Herrera could have gotten back quicker and Pogba could have gotten closer to Traore but neither of those really impact what happens. We're left with 3 runners against 2 midfielders because we brought Mata on to chase the game. In those situations it's critical to defend a high line and win the first ball to prevent knockdowns because we're inevitably going to be light tracking runners when we're committing men up field.

Smalling commits two awful errors in the space of a few seconds, it's terrible defending and there's no way to justify it. Somehow he manages to drop too deep and then be caught too far up in the same move. It's dreadful and there's no way Mourinho didn't notice that.

 

[POF]

His positioning was awful, he's tight to his man as the ball is going to Chambers then inexplicably he keeps running towards goal. He realises his mistake too late, makes another runs towards Negrado (who actually has read the flight of the ball) but can't get anywhere near it.

Smalling is in a decent position here, close to Negrado and defending the edge of the box like Bailly. Ready to win any ball that might be played into the box.

Here is mistake number 1. Instead of defending the 18 yard line like Bailly and staying close to Negrado he drops off into no-mans-land. Pogba is slow to track Traore but not out of position enough that if Chambers lays it off he wouldn't be able to get goal side and slow him down. Either way Smalling has to track Negrado into the box closely or it would be a simple cutback for Traore.

This isn't necessarily a disaster as Chambers decides to cross rather than play the throughball. Smalling can no longer win the ball but as long as he holds his position and doesn't follow that arrow he can defend the knockdown as Negrado only has 1 option.

Instead he pushes up with no hope of winning the ball, compounding his initial error and leaving that huge space for Negrado to play the ball into which he is unable to defend.

This leaves Leadbitter through on goal and he doesn't miss. Because Smalling has sold himself he's unable to turn his momentum and defend the knock-down.


Yes, Herrera could have gotten back quicker and Pogba could have gotten closer to Traore but neither of those really impact what happens. We're left with 3 runners against 2 midfielders because we brought Mata on to chase the game. In those situations it's critical to defend a high line and win the first ball to prevent knockdowns because we're inevitably going to be light tracking runners when we're committing men up field.

Smalling commits two awful errors in the space of a few seconds, it's terrible defending and there's no way to justify it. Somehow he manages to drop too deep and then be caught too far up in the same move. It's dreadful and there's no way Mourinho didn't notice that.

Firstly, Smalling's positioning was excellent in the first instance (second diagram). Dropping off Negredo was the right decision. Rojo has been dragged wide so he needs to defend the danger area and cut off the ability for Chambers to whip it in between defence and keeper.. Negredo is 18 yards from goal and cannot score from the position Chambers can pick him out.

In that second image Valencia and Bailly's positioning is far worse than Smalling. With Rojo wide they should be further around on the cover.

Your diagrams 3-5 show exactly what I said and contradict your summation that it doesn't matter who he should pick up, his job is to win the ball. The defence was stretched, winning the ball in that situation was impossible. By trying to do so he made the wrong decision.

Your images above actually show what a difficult decision it was. With Rojo dragged wide there are 5 Boro players with just 3 United players goal side.

 

[Sylar]

TBF, I agree with @Dion
I think Smalling makes a mistake and then compounds it by moving up to Negredo leaving the space behind him.

Its simplistic to say Herrera should be tracking him (but he was on the other side of the box rather than closer). But in football, players are passed upon on marking in situations like that. When the ball came in, there was no way Smalling was going to head that, so its harsh to criticise him for that given he dropped off Negredo. But him being drawn to the ball left all that space, meaning he couldnt turn back.

Saying that, I think Smalling does struggle at times as he cant hold as much as he used to. But for me hes also had his best games on the right and some of his worst on the left.

 

[Dion]

Firstly, Smalling's positioning was excellent in the first instance (second diagram). Dropping off Negredo was the right decision. Rojo has been dragged wide so he needs to defend the danger area and cut off the ability for Chambers to whip it in between defence and keeper.. Negredo is 18 yards from goal and cannot score from the position Chambers can pick him out.

In that second image Valencia and Bailly's positioning is far worse than Smalling. With Rojo wide they should be further around on the cover.

Your diagrams 3-5 show exactly what I said and contradict your summation that it doesn't matter who he should pick up, his job is to win the ball. The defence was stretched, winning the ball in that situation was impossible. By trying to do so he made the wrong decision.

Your images above actually show what a difficult decision it was. With Rojo dragged wide there are 5 Boro players with just 3 United players goal side.

Smalling in the second picture is in no-mans-land. It's awful positioning, he's defending nothing and if there were runners into the 6 yard box for Chambers to aim at (there weren't) he'd be playing them all onside instead of holding the line. His positioning is great in the first picture. There's no runners that are going to out-pace him if the ball is drilled into the box. There's no runners within 5 yards of the 18 yard box when the ball is played to Chambers. He has two choices, either lay it off to Traore (who Pogba will be covering) or stand it up to Negrado. If Smalling stays tight to Negrado then he can neither head it down to Leadbitter if it's crossed in nor be available for an easy cut back. He's trying to do Pogba's job instead of trusting him and ends up not doing his own because of it. Even if the ball is played to Traore and Pogba isn't there it's an easy cut back for a tap-in for Negrado if Smalling closes down Traore.

Bailly and Valencia are defending the 18 yard line like they're supposed to. There's no danger of it being played in between defence and keeper for exactly that reason. He had an area to defend and he abandoned it then when he realised his mistake he made a second and tried to get back but failed, leaving a second gap. When you're out-numbered you defend as a unit and make sure you win the first ball. There was no possible reason for Smalling to drop off like he did, it's awful positioning and reading of the game.

Middlesbrough scored, Smalling fecked up. there's no debate to be had here. He just doesn't do his job as part of a unit and I bet Mourinho will be absolutely fuming with him for it because defending the 18 yard line isn't advanced defending technique.

 

[POF]

Smalling in the second picture is in no-mans-land. It's awful positioning, he's defending nothing and if there were runners into the 6 yard box for Chambers to aim at (there weren't) he'd be playing them all onside instead of holding the line. His positioning is great in the first picture. There's no runners that are going to out-pace him if the ball is drilled into the box. There's no runners within 5 yards of the 18 yard box when the ball is played to Chambers. He has two choices, either lay it off to Traore (who Pogba will be covering) or stand it up to Negrado. If Smalling stays tight to Negrado then he can neither head it down to Leadbitter if it's crossed in nor be available for an easy cut back. He's trying to do Pogba's job instead of trusting him and ends up not doing his own because of it. Even if the ball is played to Traore and Pogba isn't there it's an easy cut back for a tap-in for Negrado if Smalling closes down Traore.

Bailly and Valencia are defending the 18 yard line like they're supposed to. There's no danger of it being played in between defence and keeper for exactly that reason. He had an area to defend and he abandoned it then when he realised his mistake he made a second and tried to get back but failed, leaving a second gap. When you're out-numbered you defend as a unit and make sure you win the first ball. There was no possible reason for Smalling to drop off like he did, it's awful positioning and reading of the game.

Middlesbrough scored, Smalling fecked up. there's no debate to be had here. He just doesn't do his job as part of a unit and I bet Mourinho will be absolutely fuming with him for it because defending the 18 yard line isn't advanced defending technique.

I agree (and have said in each message) that Smalling made a mistake. The issue is that you have no idea what that mistake is.

Defending the 18 yard line as a defensive technique? I think we'll just leave it there.

 

[ti vu]

jesus christ some people here, he was good all game, some quality challenges, the goals was obv. partly his mistake but that can happen he didnt play for a long time and that particular situation is quite easy to misjudge... yeah just sell our best defender of last season, he only came back from injury..

Late to the party. Sorry but good all game is bs. Beside the conceding goal, he was supposed to cover for Blind and he let Boro players got through 2 times quite easy. He passed the responsibility to play out from the back to other players. For example: in the second half there is a moment Pogba tried to play to Smalling so he can step up and help create space to make a play. (Pogba could have make a pass straight to Blind himself, but that defeats the purpose of his pass to Smalling). Smalling decided to pass to Blind and we had to start to build up again with Blind being closed down by Boro player! (I will rewatch the game later and pick up this moment) (Edit: It was around the last 20 seconds of the 46th minute). That's why under LVG we're usually so dull and predictable. We take so many obvious passes and by ourselves close our passing option and ended up play into our opponent's hand.

Smalling doesn't position himself well to receive pass to build up play from the back. His position is negative, more to side way passing or pass back to DDG (LVG's dull ball playing). There is space ahead of him but he doesn't try to attack the space. Bailly as bad as his build up play this game is more positive. Rojo and Jones may not be anything near world class level, but at least they're capable to create solid rhythm playing out of the back. Also to notice, our players seem to ignore, give up on passing to him at some points. They tried to play harder pass than pass to him (since he can may just make the situation worse passing in difficult angle.

 

[Dion]

I agree (and have said in each message) that Smalling made a mistake. The issue is that you have no idea what that mistake is.

Defending the 18 yard line as a defensive technique? I think we'll just leave it there.

Pretty clear you're just saying anything now. He drops back, abandoning his man while the rest of the defence holds the line. You can tell that's the mistake because Smalling himself realises it just as soon as he makes it and tries to correct himself.

It's very, very obvious how he went from marking one player to marking none.