[jojose]

Team success means nothing? Come on FFS, each players contributes to the team’s success, the fact that Hummels can get into the best international team in the World should tell you all you need to know. Smalling can’t even get into the England side on a permanent basis.

I agree with you about stats, they can be misleading and very rarely tell the full story on a player’s performance or ability, but the difference between points scored and goals conceded when Hummels plays can’t be ignored.

You seem to be dismissing everything as nonsense, you don’t think a player’s value should be considered when discussing each players worth to the team? How exactly? How else do you value a players worth other than his performances on the pitch?

Ahead of who? Per Mertasacker? Arbeloa plays for the best club side in Europe does that make him a fantastic right back?

The fact Hummels plays for Germany but Smalling does not play for England doesnt mean a thing. Its like saying Stoke beat city, we beat stoke and so we are better than city.

I dont know how many times i need to say this but if he has been so good please just give me a couple of examples of when he has excelled and put in a top qaulity defensive display? I'll admitt i dont see much of him. I watched in the Wrold Cup....never once did i think "wow - he's fantastic". I have seen him a few times over the last few seasons in the champions league against City, Arsenal, Madrid and Munich..........each time i thought he was quite poor.

I agree with you that head to head....one or the other....most people would pick Hummels over Smalling. 100% agree. But it wouldnt be based on anything other than hype. If we are all honest, nobody has seen much of him.

I remember watching him in the Euro's 2.5 years ago and thought he looked fantastic. He had a couple of really good games and looked quick. When i see him now though he always looks heavy and awkward.

I dismissed some of your points as nonsense as they dont back up your arguement. Im talking about personal performances and your talking about collective achievments.

 

[Getsme]

Ahead of who? Per Mertasacker? Arbeloa plays for the best club side in Europe does that make him a fantastic right back?

The fact Hummels plays for Germany but Smalling does not play for England doesnt mean a thing. Its like saying Stoke beat city, we beat stoke and so we are better than city.

I dont know how many times i need to say this but if he has been so good please just give me a couple of examples of when he has excelled and put in a top qaulity defensive display? I'll admitt i dont see much of him. I watched in the Wrold Cup....never once did i think "wow - he's fantastic". I have seen him a few times over the last few seasons in the champions league against City, Arsenal, Madrid and Munich..........each time i thought he was quite poor.

I agree with you that head to head....one or the other....most people would pick Hummels over Smalling. 100% agree. But it wouldnt be based on anything other than hype. If we are all honest, nobody has seen much of him.

I remember watching him in the Euro's 2.5 years ago and thought he looked fantastic. He had a couple of really good games and looked quick. When i see him now though he always looks heavy and awkward.

I dismissed some of your points as nonsense as they dont back up your arguement. Im talking about personal performances and your talking about collective achievments.

There's no point discussing this further.

 

[jojose]

There's no point discussing this further.

There isnt because its quite clear you cant give me one example of a top qaulity hummels performance in the last 18 months.

You have even been on google looking for back up and you still cant find any.

Hummels form over the last 18 months (when he's not injured that is) has been average at best.

 

[Getsme]

There isnt because its quite clear you cant give me one example of a top qaulity hummels performance in the last 18 months.

You have even been on google looking for back up and you still cant find any.

Hummels form over the last 18 months (when he's not injured that is) has been average at best.

Are you for real

 

[jojose]

Are you for real

I'll ask again....give me a couple of examples of qaulity performances.

All i hear with Hummels is the press talking about him. I dont believe United have ever been to watch him? I think it was actually Van Gaal that let him go from Bayern.

He's the captain and "dominant" centre back of the team rock bottom of the German league. Have you seen some of the complete and utter sh1te in that league? He clearly cant be playing all that well can he?

 

[Getsme]

I'll ask again....give me a couple of examples of qaulity performances.

All i hear with Hummels is the press talking about him. I dont believe United have ever been to watch him? I think it was actually Van Gaal that let him go from Bayern.

He's the captain and "dominant" centre back of the team rock bottom of the German league. Have you seen some of the complete and utter sh1te in that league? He clearly cant be playing all that well can he?

Now I just think you're trolling, did you watch the World Cup? Chris Smalling better than Hummels, I can’t even begin to imagine how red your tinted glasses are.

 

[El-Manos]

I'll ask again....give me a couple of examples of qaulity performances.

All i hear with Hummels is the press talking about him. I dont believe United have ever been to watch him? I think it was actually Van Gaal that let him go from Bayern.

He's the captain and "dominant" centre back of the team rock bottom of the German league. Have you seen some of the complete and utter sh1te in that league? He clearly cant be playing all that well can he?

He hasn't been at his best recently, but he is certainly better than Smalling, we shouldn't even be questioning that.

Any Dortmund fans out there who can enlighten us on his recent form?

 

[jojose]

Now I just think you're trolling, did you watch the World Cup?

Every single Germany game yes. He was average. He got turned and ran into the channels quite often and really struggled for pace in those situations.

I remember it was even highlighted by BBC how teams where looking to isolate him. Lavenzzi in the final certainly did.

Did you watch the world cup? If so in which of Germany's games did hummels defend really well?

You have offered up a rubbish example because they hardly had to defend the entire tournement.

I also remember him crucning David Luiz in a great 50/50 against Brazil. Thats about it.

Germany where comfortably the best team in the tournement and dominated possession everygame, he / they where never tested

 

[jojose]

He hasn't been at his best recently, but he is certainly better than Smalling, we shouldn't even be questioning that.

Any Dortmund fans out there who can enlighten us on his recent form?

Why shouldnt we??? We are talking about splurging £40million on a player who alot of pundits etc are unsure about and who is centre half of the worst team in germany and who isnt playing all that well.

I would expect a £40m sining to be comfortably better than chris smalling if like getsme says smalling is valued at around £12m.

Its perfectly reasonable to expect him to be better

 

[jojose]

Your basing his last 18 months form on the reputation he built for his form 3 season ago.

 

[izec]

@jojose i think you are exaggerating a bit. Hummels is better than Smalling, he played 2-3 years on a level Smalling dreams of. Just because he had a bad year, doesnt mean suddenly that Smalling is better. He surely had some good games last year too, watch some CL games of Dortmund and you will find some good performances i am sure.

 

[jojose]

@jojose i think you are exaggerating a bit. Hummels is better than Smalling, he played 2-3 years on a level Smalling dreams of. Just because he had a bad year, doesnt mean suddenly that Smalling is better. He surely had some good games last year too, watch some CL games of Dortmund and you will find some good performances i am sure.

i didnt say Smalling was a better player. I said he's put in better performances over the last 18 months.

You seem to agree with my view of Hummels....he had a couple of very good seasons 2-3 years ago. Over the last 18 months he hasnt been all that. You have agreed with exactly what i have said.

 

[Getsme]

Every single Germany game yes. He was average. He got turned and ran into the channels quite often and really struggled for pace in those situations.

I remember it was even highlighted by BBC how teams where looking to isolate him. Lavenzzi in the final certainly did.

Did you watch the world cup? If so in which of Germany's games did hummels defend really well?

You have offered up a rubbish example because they hardly had to defend the entire tournement.

I also remember him crucning David Luiz in a great 50/50 against Brazil. Thats about it.

Germany where comfortably the best team in the tournement and dominated possession everygame, he / they where never tested

You Sir, are a wind up merchant, not a very good one I might add.

From what I can remember he got into the team of the tournament at the World Cup, most pundits (in the UK anyway) had him in the team of the tournament. He played all the games in the World Cup and I think they kept clean sheets in more than half the games, his best game was against France in which he was outstanding (I think he scored the winner as well) He wasn’t great in the Final, it was probably his worst game, therefore he must be shit (am I doing this right)

 

[izec]

i didnt say Smalling was a better player. I said he's put in better performances over the last 18 months.

You seem to agree with my view of Hummels....he had a couple of very good seasons 2-3 years ago. Over the last 18 months he hasnt been all that. You have agreed with exactly what i have said.

yup just for the fact that i rate Hummels higher. I would buy him for 30m or whatever it is. I am not a big fan of Smalling, even though he had some good performances. I would take Hummels in a heartbeat, especially because we need a ball playing defender for van Gaals philosophy. But to say Smalling is better becuse he had better 18 months? is just wrong. We ended up 7th place last year, Smalling surely wasnt outstanding.

 

[jojose]

@jojose i think you are exaggerating a bit. Hummels is better than Smalling, he played 2-3 years on a level Smalling dreams of. Just because he had a bad year, doesnt mean suddenly that Smalling is better. He surely had some good games last year too, watch some CL games of Dortmund and you will find some good performances i am sure.

Falcao has perfomed at a level 99% of strikers in world football can only dream of....he plays for Manchester United....doesnt mean his form in the last year has been bteer than.....???? Herry Kane for example

 

[jojose]

yup just for the fact that i rate Hummels higher. I would buy him for 30m or whatever it is. I am not a big fan of Smalling, even though he had some good performances. I would take Hummels in a heartbeat, especially because we need a ball playing defender for van Gaals philosophy. But to say Smalling is better becuse he had better 18 months? is just wrong. We ended up 7th place last year, Smalling surely wasnt outstanding.

Didnt say that......said he's put in

You Sir, are a wind up merchant, not a very good one I might add.

From what I can remember he got into the team of the tournament at the World Cup, most pundits (in the UK anyway) had him in the team of the tournament. He played all the games in the World Cup and I think they kept clean sheets in more than half the games, his best game was against France in which he was outstanding (I think he scored the winner as well) He wasn’t great in the Final, it was probably his worst game, therefore he must be shit (am I doing this right)

Fair enough.......we'll agree to disagree.

I havent seen Hummels put in a qaulity defensive performance for a good while.

I think he's slow and not a great defender.

I'll say now that if he comes to the premier league - he'l struggle massivley.

 

[jojose]

yup just for the fact that i rate Hummels higher. I would buy him for 30m or whatever it is. I am not a big fan of Smalling, even though he had some good performances. I would take Hummels in a heartbeat, especially because we need a ball playing defender for van Gaals philosophy. But to say Smalling is better becuse he had better 18 months? is just wrong. We ended up 7th place last year, Smalling surely wasnt outstanding.

Dortmund are bottom.....of a league very thin on qaulity.

 

[izec]

Falcao has perfomed at a level 99% of strikers in world football can only dream of....he plays for Manchester United....doesnt mean his form in the last year has been bteer than.....???? Herry Kane for example

No. But Smalling didnt perform on the level of Harry Kane. I dont know how this discussion came up, but it is not Hummels or Smalling. They can both play together. Hummels has all the time and ability to be world class again, Falcao had a bad injury.

I just dont trust Smalling to be consistently good enough over a season or more.

Getsme is right, he had a great game against France. You just have 2 arguments, he is slow and you havent seen a good game of him in the last 18 months. But our scouts have, otherwise we wouldnt be in for him. Hummels is slow, but Vidic wasnt fast either. It is nothing new that he isnt fast, we know that already. Van Gaal still wants him. Didnt you want someone like Terry, obviously for other qualities, but he is slow too.

 

[izec]

Dortmund are bottom.....of a league very thin on qaulity.

thats the sort of argumentation you use.

 

[jojose]

No. But Smalling didnt perform on the level of Harry Kane. I dont know how this discussion came up, but it is not Hummels or Smalling. They can both play together. Hummels has all the time and ability to be world class again, Falcao had a bad injury.

I just dont trust Smalling to be consistently good enough over a season or more.

Getsme is right, he had a great game against France. You just have 2 arguments, he is slow and you havent seen a good game of him in the last 18 months. But our scouts have, otherwise we wouldnt be in for him. Hummels is slow, but Vidic wasnt fast either. It is nothing new that he isnt fast, we know that already. Van Gaal still wants him. Didnt you want someone like Terry, obviously for other qualities, but he is slow too.

Again??? are you again agreeing with me in saying that Hummels has perhaps gone back over???

I think thats a fairly good argument. Its also 100% factual.

Our scouts having watched him and been impressed, us been in for him and Van Gaal wanted him.......i dont think any of that is factual is it?

Vidic wasnt fast but a vidic and a terry would through themselves infront of a bus. They are old school defenders. Hummels is nothing like those too. Hummels is the silk to a vidic/terry's steel.

Unfortunatley for hummels i think he's lost a fair bit of pace, 2-3 years ago whilst he maybe wasnt lightening he was quick enough. He now looks very slow. Maybe injury maybe down to bulk.

Your right i do think we need a Terry type player. In the way he leads and organises. I dont see Hummels as a leader or an organiser.

 

[Getsme]

thats the sort of argumentation you use.

I can't believe im a having a discussion about Chris Smalling being better than Mats Hummels. RAWK better look out.

 

[jojose]

I can't believe im a having a discussion about Chris Smalling being better than Mats Hummels. RAWK better look out.

I'll say it one last time!!!!

I have seen Chris Smalling put in better performances in the last 18 months than Matts Hummels. I dont think Matts Hummels has been great for a season or two. He's done nothing recently to convince me that he would improve us.

If you want to evaluate him on his form 3 seasons ago and that he plays for Germany thats fair enough. We can only judge what we see.

Unfortunatley....alot of people on here dont see......and judge on FM ratings.

May i ask how many times you have seen him for Dortmund this season? or even 2014 calender year?

 

[Rozay]

It's a line from the show.

 

[Getsme]

I'll say it one last time!!!!

I have seen Chris Smalling put in better performances in the last 18 months than Matts Hummels. I dont think Matts Hummels has been great for a season or two. He's done nothing recently to convince me that he would improve us.

If you want to evaluate him on his form 3 seasons ago and that he plays for Germany thats fair enough. We can only judge what we see.

Unfortunatley....alot of people on here dont see......and judge on FM ratings.

May i ask how many times you have seen him for Dortmund this season? or even 2014 calender year?

You’ve already said you haven’t seen him play much over the last few years yet claim he is shit, that he was shit at the World Cup (even though he got into the team of the tournament) admit that the large majority of fans would pick Hummels over Smalling (but they’re all brainwashed right, in fact everybody is but you) I gave you stats which proved that the team conceded less goals and gained more points when he played which you brushed off. You're a troll, and a pretty obvious one

I’ve seen them play 9 or 10 times in the league and each Champions league game

 

[Getsme]

It's a line from the show.

Ah ok. Na, I was just taking the piss out of @Red_toad a wee bit.

 

[Kounan]

I don't think that playing or not playing for England should mean anything.

Carrick couldn't get into the team, while he was the most consistent player in the most successful team in England and SAF couldn't imagine playing without him.

They even managed to put Scholes on the left wing, so the more popular players could play in the middle.

While Spain had the domination in world football they have always mentioned 2 players who they would have like in their team and this two were Scholer and Carrick, but Carrick again couldn't get into the England team as he wasn't attractive enough.

I am sorry, but the English national team is a joke, or let's better say it's a joke how it's run. The best team in the country is constantly using one player and isn't even thinking of replacing him, he starts most of the games and he still doesn't have his place in the national team. It can only be called a joke.

It even doesn't matter who is better in the last 18 months, Smalling or Hummels, but Smalling is a better defender then Jagielka and Cahill (we have seen the job these two have done in the WC) and him not playing is just because he is a Man Utd player and after Rio and Vidić no one is so good. Put him into Everton and let him perform at the same level, everyone would be screaming about the next WC defender England is getting.

So, trying to make a point and using the England national team as an example just can't have any real value.

 

[RooneyLegend]

Smalling is quite obviously a quality defender. We just need ti have someone next to him that complements him and then we'd be on to a winner. I'd say a defender like Hummels would complement him very well in all honesty and if the opportunity to get him is there we should perhaps look into it. The only problem with the German is that he's one to keep the medical staff busy all year round and that has been going on for a bit of time. I do think though that getting in someone like Stones would be a better cheaper option.

 

[Kounan]

Smalling is quite obviously a quality defender. We just need ti have someone next to him that complements him and then we'd be on to a winner. I'd say a defender like Hummels would complement him very well in all honesty and if the opportunity to get him is there we should perhaps look into it. The only problem with the German is that he's one to keep the medical staff busy all year round and that has been going on for a bit of time. I do think though that getting in someone like Stones would be a better cheaper option.

Problem with Hummels is that he is very expensive and wouldn't improve us from the beginning. We have all seen his form for most of the season (and longer). So we would have to wait and see how it will work. It is a possibility that it works brilliantly, but it's a risk (I know there is always a risk, but here from the start we would have to accept that he will have problems from the start and we have to hope that the dip in form is just temporary), so why give that much money, when in the last two seasons he isn't worth even close to it (35+ mil is a lot of money)? In that case we can also wait and see if Rojo improves properly, or if Smalling and Jones can stay fit and if Evans can find his old form which is more than enough for back up.

 

[Red_toad]

Ah ok. Na, I was just taking the piss out of @Red_toad a wee bit.

Nice try, could do better 3 out of 10.
Heartens me you can hold a grudge. Keep on keepin on bro

 

[Ekeke]

With Rojo's improvement I'd like to see him and Smalling together for a long run of games to see how convincing they are as a partnership.

 

[Loublaze]

Every single Germany game yes. He was average. He got turned and ran into the channels quite often and really struggled for pace in those situations.

I remember it was even highlighted by BBC how teams where looking to isolate him. Lavenzzi in the final certainly did.

Did you watch the world cup? If so in which of Germany's games did hummels defend really well?

You have offered up a rubbish example because they hardly had to defend the entire tournement.

I also remember him crucning David Luiz in a great 50/50 against Brazil. Thats about it.

Germany where comfortably the best team in the tournement and dominated possession everygame, he / they where never tested

Too right. Hummels being this super world class defender is a fvcking myth. Hargreaves has a point. People are fooled by his ability on the ball. This season even his passing has gone to shit and he's been cursed by Dortmund fans. I watched their last game against Augsburg and Hummels was one of the worst players on the pitch. He looked nervy and was caught ball watching a few times. Its pretty much been the story of his season. The only game where he actually looked like himself was against Hoffenheim (this was one of only two games where Dortmund have kept a clean sheet in the league if im correct, Hummels didn't play the other game). @Getsme seems to be perma-camped in this thread these days being passive aggressive in his efforts to discredit Smalling since Evans is having such a poor season

 

[Getsme]

Nice try, could do better 3 out of 10.
Heartens me you can hold a grudge. Keep on keepin on bro

Hold a grudge? The feck you on about?

 

[Getsme]

Too right. Hummels being this super world class defender is a fvcking myth. Hargreaves has a point. People are fooled by his ability on the ball. This season even his passing has gone to shit and he's been cursed by Dortmund fans. I watched their last game against Augsburg and Hummels was one of the worst players on the pitch. He looked nervy and was caught ball watching a few times. Its pretty much been the story of his season. The only game where he actually looked like himself was against Hoffenheim (this was one of only two games where Dortmund have kept a clean sheet in the league if im correct, Hummels didn't play the other game). @Getsme seems to be perma-camped in this thread these days being passive aggressive in his efforts to discredit Smalling since Evans is having such a poor season

Discredit Smalling? By saying he's not as good as Hummels, have a word with yourself.

 

[Lawman]

With Rojo's improvement I'd like to see him and Smalling together for a long run of games to see how convincing they are as a partnership.

I'm with you on this Ekeke. Rojo and Smalling look the real deal imo. All this talk about improving our defence when the solution might be staring us in the face. Their form will be helped by a new right back and Shaw playing consistently.

 

[Amar__]

Getsme is best ignored in this thread. There are people who don't rate Smalling, but at least they explain why, Getsme's opinion is just based on what he thinks will happen with Smalling in the future based on his worst games for United(because I am not sure he even watches some games before expressing opinion on Smalling's performances, he is just repeating the usual stuff he thinks is wrong with Smalling when describing his performance).

 

[Borys]

It's amazing how this sort of statement would be worded differently by many others if it was Jones.

You’re right but I that’s because Jones does mistakes a lot more often than Smalling. I wouldn’t say Smalling is error-prone at all. His passing has improved, and the defensive part of his game is excellent. He gives away the ball at times but IMO he can be excused for doing that (and any other CB for that matter) as we’re implementing brand new system which involves our defenders much more. He’s a very good defender and great athlete. Jones does more mistakes, and I believe he can be very good CB too, just he’s not there yet. IMO Jones does a lot of those last-ditch tackles, so he looks effective. But Smalling is more of a proactive defender, and I prefer those.

Not particularly. When I watch him he never inspires me with much confidence. Although most of our defenders make me feel like a mistake can happy at any instant I often see Smalling inviting unnecessary pressure on himself (through his own play) and also bring pressure onto the team (liable to giving away cheap freekicks as he often will put his hands into the back of an opponent or by grabbing their shirt).

I thought Smalling is excellent at that? I mean, how many times has he given away a freekick or PK for that?

A class: Smalling, Rojo
B class: Jones
C class: Evans (not sure what happened to him but I don't trust him)

 

[Red_toad]

Hold a grudge? The feck you on about?

Oh don't you worry your head about it.

 

[Getsme]

Oh don't you worry your head about it.

I'll try not to.

 

[Getsme]

Getsme is best ignored in this thread. There are people who don't rate Smalling, but at least they explain why, Getsme's opinion is just based on what he thinks will happen with Smalling in the future based on his worst games for United(because I am not sure he even watches some games before expressing opinion on Smalling's performances, he is just repeating the usual stuff he thinks is wrong with Smalling when describing his performance).

What are you on about? The majority of my posts in here has been a discussion with a poster who claims Smalling is better than Hummels.

 

[Devil may care]

Have you been watching The Good Wife?

Mmmm Julianna Marguiles ...........Ahem, I hope Smalling starts against West Ham, of our two RCB's he gives me the most confidence and was doing quite well until he picked up another little injury, he really needs to shake that or it's going to hold him back.