Child killed by pet dog

Livvie

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Did anyone see the first pics that came out of the little girl in Leicester with what was apparently the family pet?

It was a tan/brown colour and looked liked one of its parents had mated with a horse. It was ridiculously huge - almost abnormally so.

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Today, there are pictures of a dog that's mainly white and half the size.


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Why would you leave your toddler alone in the company of a dog (one with the potential to kill a small child) that you've only had for a short number of weeks?

It's crazy. How many kids have died or been seriously injured in Britain over the past 5 years because of irresponsible parents/guardians and their dogs? There seems to be a delusion held by some dog owners that their dog would never harm a child in its company, and because of this they won't take precautions when their or other people's children are in the house. I remember somebody posted a Youtube video a while back of a parent filming their baby climb all over their fully grown Rottweiler, sticking its hands into the dogs mouth as they laughed in the background, as if there was no risk of something going wrong.
 
I'm never quite sure why people want dogs like that as pets.

If you have the space fair enough but keeping an animal that size ina house would be crazy and not very fair on the dog.

Not sure of the particulars of this case but you see people all the time with huge dogs and not the first notion of how to train or control them.
 
The dog that killed the poor child was the second one in Livvie's picture. It was a rescued bulldog, not a banned breed as it happens but clearly a powerful animal. The massive brown dog is a Dogue de Bordeaux (French Mastiff), also not a banned breed although clearly an animal that you would be very careful having around children.
 
So did this other dog also live in the flat, Penna? They did originally say that the little girl was killed by a French Mastiff, and there's obviously one around.
 
I think people need to look hard at whether they should have dogs in the home when there are kids about.

Half of the issue is that some people just randomly seem to need dogs in their lives, to the point of putting their own children at risk. It strikes me as if some dogs are 'statements' and most of the others are just for people in the countryside looking for something to do.
 
Maybe this is trivialising it a bit but I'd be tempted to look at the size of the dogs. I know that any dog, any size can cause harm and damage to a child but a smaller breed/toy dog that barely come up to the child's knees surely stands much less of a chance than dogs two or three times the child's size.

Have to say whenever I see a big dog with a small child, despite what the expected temperament of that dog is or has been, it does make me feel a bit uncomfortable.
 
I understand how a kid might want a pet dog and you might think that it's a good idea, it'll teach him responsibility and discipline etc. I don't quite grasp how anyone would ever think that keeping a dog like that, a dog you don't even know and you've found when it was already grown, near a 4-year old could be a good idea. Go get a chihuahua or a york or a shiba, not a bull dog.
 
Plugsy said:
Maybe this is trivialising it a bit but I'd be tempted to look at the size of the dogs. I know that any dog, any size can cause harm and damage to a child but a smaller breed/toy dog that barely come up to the child's knees surely stands much less of a chance than dogs two or three times the child's size.

Have to say whenever I see a big dog with a small child, despite what the expected temperament of that dog is or has been, it does make me feel a bit uncomfortable.
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There are some large dogs that are extremely quiet and calm, those you can have around your child and they won't harm them in any way. Bulldog doesn't belong in that category, neither does rottweiler or doberman.

Getting a chihuahua would be the optimal choice there though.
 
Plugsy said:
Maybe this is trivialising it a bit but I'd be tempted to look at the size of the dogs. I know that any dog, any size can cause harm and damage to a child but a smaller breed/toy dog that barely come up to the child's knees surely stands much less of a chance than dogs two or three times the child's size.

Have to say whenever I see a big dog with a small child, despite what the expected temperament of that dog is or has been, it does make me feel a bit uncomfortable.
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Totally. Thats sort of what I meant in my last post.

Any dog can cause harm to a small child (and in a lot of cases it's not really the dogs fault) but if its a shitzu at least you can pick it up and throw it away.

Most adults couldn't control some of the dogs you see people walking round with as pets if the dog has a notion that they want to do something, particularly when most haven't the foggiest about training or obedience.

I've had dogs all my life, working dogs bar 1 or 2, so maybe thats why I just can't get my head around someone wanting something the size of the dog in that first picture as a fashion accessory, basically.

Rescue dogs are great but you need to be incredibly careful with them, particularly if its an older dog. Personally I'd never take a dog I didn't have from pup whether it was rescued or not, I certainly wouldn't take a fully grow rescue dog if I had kids... regardless of breed.

A few years ago my mum took a small king charles cross in, lovely looking dog but it turned out to be the nastiest dog I've ever encountered, even though, as I say our family have always had dogs and know how to train them. That poor little fella had to be put down after a couple of months, he had obviously been mistreated when he was young and it was only a matter of time before he bit someone badly.
 
Sarni said:
There are some large dogs that are extremely quiet and calm, those you can have around your child and they won't harm them in any way. Bulldog doesn't belong in that category, neither does rottweiler or doberman.

Getting a chihuahua would be the optimal choice there though.
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You can't take chances with kids around dogs regardless of the size or breed IMO.

The assumption always seems to be the same when cases like this come up i.e. it's the dogs fault, when in reality the best trained, most placid dog in the world could turn around bit a kid if he sticks his finger up his arse, or in his eye or something.

The nastiest dogs I've ever encountered have nearly always been small breeds, Jack Russells are one, and I had a cocker spaniel a good few years ago that would have given any bulldog a run for its money.
 
Eyepopper said:
I'm never quite sure why people want dogs like that as pets.

If you have the space fair enough but keeping an animal that size ina house would be crazy and not very fair on the dog.

Not sure of the particulars of this case but you see people all the time with huge dogs and not the first notion of how to train or control them.
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Thats the key part.

A friend of mine has a 6 month old Dogo Argentino. As a breed they are banned in numerous countries and is probably the most vicious breed out there when trained with fighting etc in mind.

Ive honestly never seen a puppy in my life as well behaved and as obiedient so quickly. Beautiful dog as well.

Its all about the owners. Some people are absolute cnuts

 
People are idiots.

I wouldn't leave any dog alone with a child no matter how well behaved it is. It's an animal and knowing what young uns are like (pulling, prodding, generally being inquisitive) they only have to inadvertently hurt the dog and it will react. That's just common sense.
 
Livvie said:
So did this other dog also live in the flat, Penna? They did originally say that the little girl was killed by a French Mastiff, and there's obviously one around.
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I don't know, Livvie - the black and white dog evidently attacked the poor child when she was sleeping in bed with her mum. All I can think is that it had got very overly-territorial about its owner.
 
Eyepopper said:
Totally. Thats sort of what I meant in my last post.

Any dog can cause harm to a small child (and in a lot of cases it's not really the dogs fault) but if its a shitzu at least you can pick it up and throw it away.

Most adults couldn't control some of the dogs you see people walking round with as pets if the dog has a notion that they want to do something, particularly when most haven't the foggiest about training or obedience.

I've had dogs all my life, working dogs bar 1 or 2, so maybe thats why I just can't get my head around someone wanting something the size of the dog in that first picture as a fashion accessory, basically.

Rescue dogs are great but you need to be incredibly careful with them, particularly if its an older dog. Personally I'd never take a dog I didn't have from pup whether it was rescued or not, I certainly wouldn't take a fully grow rescue dog if I had kids... regardless of breed.

A few years ago my mum took a small king charles cross in, lovely looking dog but it turned out to be the nastiest dog I've ever encountered, even though, as I say our family have always had dogs and know how to train them. That poor little fella had to be put down after a couple of months, he had obviously been mistreated when he was young and it was only a matter of time before he bit someone badly.
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You're absolutely right - if you're not strong enough to control the dog it's not safe to keep it. Even the little pup we adopted in the summer now has a terrific amount of strength, and she only weighs 17kg. I have to really lean back to hold her on the lead when she decides to pull.
 
Eyepopper said:
I'm never quite sure why people want dogs like that as pets.

If you have the space fair enough but keeping an animal that size ina house would be crazy and not very fair on the dog.

Not sure of the particulars of this case but you see people all the time with huge dogs and not the first notion of how to train or control them.
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Big dogs like that actually do well in a house, they don't need a lot of space to roam because their size means they tire pretty quickly.

The French mastiffs are massive feckers, though. Anyone who owns one needs to ensure they are very well trained...and I think the owners need to pump some serious iron.


Penna said:
I don't know, Livvie - the black and white dog evidently attacked the poor child when she was sleeping in bed with her mum. All I can think is that it had got very overly-territorial about its owner.
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Is it common for rescues to be spayed/neutered before adopting them out in England? I wonder if that was a factor at all. Intact females can be trouble when they're in season.
 
Penna said:
You're absolutely right - if you're not strong enough to control the dog it's not safe to keep it. Even the little pup we adopted in the summer now has a terrific amount of strength, and she only weighs 17kg. I have to really lean back to hold her on the lead when she decides to pull.
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Hehehe, the worst thing about pointers, Penna, is that they are not only quite strong for their size but they have incredible endurance. They will pull you around all day long
 
Decotron said:
Thats the key part.

A friend of mine has a 6 month old Dogo Argentino. As a breed they are banned in numerous countries and is probably the most vicious breed out there when trained with fighting etc in mind.

Ive honestly never seen a puppy in my life as well behaved and as obiedient so quickly. Beautiful dog as well.

Its all about the owners. Some people are absolute cnuts
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Dogos aren't typically trained for fighting, they're hunters. Their main prey is wild boar, a particularly viscious animal. The Dogo is very good at what it does becuase it has an equal amount of agression via prey drive. Dogs with bad temperment where humans are concerned are almost always the fault of other humans who have mistreated them.
 
Dr. Dwayngele said:
Big dogs like that actually do well in a house, they don't need a lot of space to roam because their size means they tire pretty quickly.
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Thats not a solution either though, dogs like that eat like horses, if they don't get the exercise they will just put on weight, .... and when you talk exercise for something that big, you're not talking a 15 minute walk around the block for a dump.

You obviously put a lot of effort into your dogs Dwayne, same as me, but most people sadly don't.

Every single time I take mine to the beach I'm passed by at least 3 or 4 people chasing their dogs and screaming their name (because everyone knows the louder you shout the more likely the dog is to come back). Thankfully I have mine trained to heel, they'll walk beside me same as if they are on a lead until they're told to do something different. So I get to be very smug and self righteous when other peoples dogs come sprinting over to them with their owners in hot pursuit. More than once I've flashed a big smile and said 'thats probably why they invented leads.'
 
Eyepopper said:
Thats not a solution either though, dogs like that eat like horses, if they don't get the exercise they will just put on weight, .... and when you talk exercise for something that big, you're not talking a 15 minute walk around the block for a dump.

You obviously put a lot of effort into your dogs Dwayne, same as me, but most people sadly don't.

Every single time I take mine to the beach I'm passed by at least 3 or 4 people chasing their dogs and screaming their name (because everyone knows the louder you shout the more likely the dog is to come back). Thankfully I have mine trained to heel, they'll walk beside me same as if they are on a lead until they're told to do something different. So I get to be very smug and self righteous when other peoples dogs come sprinting over to them with their owners in hot pursuit. More than once I've flashed a big smile and said 'thats probably why they invented leads.'
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Hehehe, yeah thanks I do. A couple of them are big and scary so you have to, right? If I want to have a dog that could be dangerous I'd better be somewhat responsible about them. Anyway, it's my missus who likes the big ones but I'm quite hooked on Boerboels having had Rodney for three years now, wonderful dogs but their temperment is likely more down to how me and the missus treat them than anything else.

I'd love to train the shorthaired pointer to heel but it's virtually impossible. Thankfully she does at least come when called.
 
Dwayne, if you get a dog from a rescue in the UK they are always spayed or neutered. By the way, we have DNA tested our pup and found that she's largely a mix of Brittany spaniel, miniature poodle and Bouvier des Flandres. It's useful knowing your dog's make-up if you have a mongrel, as you can have a look at the breed behaviour characteristics and have an idea of what you're dealing with.
 
My 2 springers are trained to heel... thats right springers, trained to heel, once they were 8 I didn't even need to wear my rollerblades anymore...

Overall I totally agree with you. I have no problem with people with big dogs once they have the interest (space was probably the wrong word tbf), and know just how much effort they take.
 
Penna said:
Dwayne, if you get a dog from a rescue in the UK they are always spayed or neutered. By the way, we have DNA tested our pup and found that she's largely a mix of Brittany spaniel, miniature poodle and Bouvier des Flandres. It's useful knowing your dog's make-up if you have a mongrel, as you can have a look at the breed behaviour characteristics and have an idea of what you're dealing with.
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Thanks Penna, just something I thought was worth checking in relation to this story. I'm not surprised, it seems to be the standard in most wetsern countries now.

Interesting about your pup. Still, the Brittney in her will give her that endurance, too. That's another breed that can work all day long.
 
Eyepopper said:
My 2 springers are trained to heel... thats right springers, trained to heel, once they were 8 I didn't even need to wear my rollerblades anymore...

Overall I totally agree with you. I have no problem with people with big dogs once they have the interest (space was probably the wrong word tbf), and know just how much effort they take.
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Very impressive.

Yeah, it's a lot of work. They bigger they are the more attention they need, the needy buggers. :lol:
 
Still haven't heard whether both dogs lived in the flat. Even more irresponsible if so.
 
Penna said:
I don't know, Livvie - the black and white dog evidently attacked the poor child when she was sleeping in bed with her mum. All I can think is that it had got very overly-territorial about its owner.
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So the child was not left alone with the dog then?

Also, here is a report covering 1982-2011 for dog related maimings and deaths by breed if anyone cares to look at it. This is a report of Canada and the US.

http://www.dogsbite.org/pdf/dog-attack-deaths-maimings-merritt-clifton-2011.pdf
 
JustAFan said:
So the child was not left alone with the dog then?

Also, here is a report covering 1982-2011 for dog related maimings and deaths by breed if anyone cares to look at it. This is a report of Canada and the US.

http://www.dogsbite.org/pdf/dog-attack-deaths-maimings-merritt-clifton-2011.pdf
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1 attack by a Dogue de Bordeaux on that list where a child was maimed. I think that one happened in Ontario. It should always come back to the owners as in the case I mentioned, the poor girl is still trying to settle a lawsuit with her jackass grandmother who owned the dog...her behaviour in this tells you a lot, I think.

Anyway back to the media agenda in running the first photo, is it obvious yet?
 
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/blackburn-dog-attack-first-picture-3135808

And another one.
Main-Ava-3135925.jpg


Neighbour Brian Harrison labelled the pitbull-type dog a "menace" while it was said to have savaged a neighbour’s cat to death two years ago.

Neighbours of tragic baby Ava-Jayne Corless tonight described the dog said to have killed her as a “menace” - and claimed it is called 'Killer'.

And they were horrified to learn the pitbull type animal, a banned breed, had apparently attacked as she slept alone in a bedroom.

The neighbour who claimed the dog was called 'Killer' said it savaged a neighbour’s cat to death two years ago.

Ava-Jayne’s mum Chloe King, 20, and her 26-year-old boyfriend Lee Wright, the dog’s owner were quizzed on suspicion of manslaughter on Tuesday night.

Police have this morning bailed them both - pending further inquiries.

As floral tributes piled up outside the home where Ava-Jayne died, neighbour Brian Harrison, 80, said of Killer: “That dog is a menace. I’m surprised such a tiny baby has been allowed around it.

"It’s not a friendly dog and the poor girl wouldn’t have stood a chance against it. Not a hope. It’s an absolute tragedy that should never have happened.”

Mr Harrison said of Monday’s incident: “When police arrived it was barking wildly and they couldn’t get inside, they had to wait quite a long time before entering.”

Defenceless Ava-Jayne, who would have been one on March 9, died in hospital after the attack at Wright’s home in Blackburn.

She was apparently mauled in her sleep as her mum, who lives nearby, sat downstairs with her boyfriend.

Paramedics called to the home found a scene of “horror” when they arrived. They tried desperately to revive her but failed. Doctors were also unable to save her.

Blackburn’s Labour MP Jack Straw said: “This is the most awful killing, of an innocent 11-month-old baby by an out-of-control, and
self-evidently dangerous dog.

“What will it take to convince people not to keep dogs like this, and to get across to all dog owners, of every breed of dog, that no dog should ever be left unsupervised with a baby?

“However domesticated a dog may be, its hunting instinct can take over.”

Ava-Jayne’s dad, Dean Corless paid tribute to his daughter.

The 24-year-old said: “She was the most beautiful and adorable little girl, she was just the best. She was my whole world. Her mum and I aren’t together anymore, but I saw Ava-Jayne all the time.

“I will miss her every single day, I just don’t know what to do now. It is so tragic. I have my family around me, but we are all devastated.”

He met his ex on Facebook and they were together for four years before splitting last summer.

His mum Bernadette, 51, added: “I just can’t believe it, it’s such a shock. She was so young, it is so unfair for a baby to be taken away. She was just beautiful, like a china doll. She was a lively baby and was always happy.”

Chloe’s mother Claire King, 39, said: “We are devastated.”

Neighbour Brenda Walmersley added: “The baby was absolutely beautiful, with dark curly hair.”

Another said: “She was a lovely little girl, always smiling, always happy. This has sickened me to my stomach.”

The RSPCA confirmed that the dog Killer had previously savaged a cat.

A spokesman said: “We were contacted about a cat that had been attacked and died in a garden at this address in March 2012. At the time there was no suggestion the incident was anything other than an accident. No action was taken.”

Chief Superintendent Chris Bithell of Lancashire police said Killer was a pit bull type breed banned under the Dangerous Dogs Act.

He added: “This is an absolutely horrific incident. Officers who attended performed CPR on the baby with paramedics before she was taken to Royal Blackburn Hospital. Sadly she passed away a short time later.

"The dog involved was destroyed at the scene. We are making inquiries to see whether there have been previous issues with this particular dog.”

Neighbour Faisal Shahzad said there was more than one dog kept at the home. He added: “I had complained to the police about the dogs before because they had been coming into our garden.

“I have three kids who play in the garden, and one dog was bothering them. I had to chase it out.”
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People defend and defend these dogs but it's always the same type isn't it? :(
 
Why do people need to have these banned dogs? Yeah I get it, your own dog is lovely. Why not get a border collie next time. They're lovely too.

Instead of a banned dogs list, we should have an allowed dogs list. (inc mongrels)
 
The dog is beautiful, but it is a pity and should be a wake up call. If you cannot be responsible in owning and handling a pet, you should not have one

@Relevated really?
 
rcoobc said:
Why do people need to have these banned dogs? Yeah I get it, your own dog is lovely. Why not get a border collie next time. They're lovely too.

Instead of a banned dogs list, we should have an allowed dogs list. (inc mongrels)
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Do you still get mongrels ?
There used to be loads of them, all running round the streets and a dog warden to catch them.

You never see dogs out on their own anymore, do you ?


R.I.P. to the little girl :(
 
Man Utd Mrs said:
Do you still get mongrels ?
There used to be loads of them, all running round the streets and a dog warden to catch them.

You never see dogs out on their own anymore, do you ?
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By a mongrel I just mean a dog of no one breed. Nothing wrong with a mongrel, rather they are generally healthier
 
A friend of mine has a rescued pit and it's an awesome, loving pet. Still shy of strangers I presume from his previous experiences prior to adoption. Gets along with her two small dogs and two cats. He's never once snapped at her three daughters, ranging from age 9 to 15.

Seems to me that the household attitudes and temperament play a large role in a dog's temperament. I have two Mals, one mixed with chow (presumably) and the other with border collie (presumably), and they've never once acted out. The Mal-chow mix is an A-type personality, the kind that would have fit right into law enforcement or military special forces. Yet, he's adorable, loving, and obedient despite his apparent need for constant action and curious nature to explore.
 
MrMarcello said:
A friend of mine has a rescued pit and it's an awesome, loving pet. Still shy of strangers I presume from his previous experiences prior to adoption. Gets along with her two small dogs and two cats. He's never once snapped at her three daughters, ranging from age 9 to 15.

Seems to me that the household attitudes and temperament play a large role in a dog's temperament. I have two Mals, one mixed with chow (presumably) and the other with border collie (presumably), and they've never once acted out. The Mal-chow mix is an A-type personality, the kind that would have fit right into law enforcement or military special forces. Yet, he's adorable, loving, and obedient despite his apparent need for constant action and curious nature to explore.
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I think you're bang on with the bolded bit. All of the dogs I adopt turn out the same.
 
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