Chelsea under Conte | Let's sign the next Hazard, literally.

If he didn't have a solid constructive dismissal case to terminate his contract before, he certainly has one now. Not smart from Conte at any stage.

UsualSuspect said:
I can guarantee that if he runs down his contract, and doesn't train, not only will he not get paid, but the club will seek legal action against him to recoup his value. He is undercutting the board drastically and harming their ability to negotiate a fair deal.

Atletico won't even offer the 40m he is clearly worth. So Costa goes off the rails in a bid to lower his value to the selling club and push for a transfer.
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Sue him for what? The manager has made it clear he doesn't want him. Costa is obviously not accepting any wages or returning to the club because he feels his position is undermined.

Unless Chelsea sack Conte and then he still doesn't return, they should be entitled to nothing. If he can't join Atleti, he can join any other club on a free once he's terminated at Chelsea.

His Lawyer is blatantly angling for constructive dismissal, and it's way more clear cut that the Eva Carneiro thing. (which was pretty clear in itself). The quote below is his lawyer :

"When he was with the Spanish national team in June, he was dismissed from Chelsea by Antonio Conte through a text message... the way in which it was carried out and the fact that it came out in public shows unfair behaviour and a lack of respect for the player and it is inadmissible and inexcusable on Antonio Conte's part."

"Not only have Chelsea not intervened or denied it either in public or in private, but they have renewed Conte's contract, demonstrating they agree with the dismissal of Diego Costa and the way in which it was processed."

"This discriminatory behaviour makes it impossible for Diego Costa to return to Chelsea while Antonio Conte is the coach, there is no condition for him to continue playing at Chelsea, which has already been passed on to those responsible several times."
 
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Red Devil Rising said:
I know a lot of players are motivated by money, but why would any player in their right mind want to join that mob of a club.

How they treat their managers, their players, the board interference, they really are poisonous from top to bottom.

Vile, vile club.
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Is this the same club allowing their players to join direct rivals to allow them to fulfil their wishes?

Yes, really vile.
 
Costa is an absolute cretin, hope Chelsea rot the feckers career off.
 
owlo said:
If he didn't have a solid constructive dismissal case to terminate his contract before, he certainly has one now. Not smart from Conte at any stage.



Sue him for what? The manager has made it clear he doesn't want him. Costa is obviously not accepting any wages or returning to the club because he feels his position is undermined.

Unless Chelsea sack Conte and then he still doesn't return, they should be entitled to nothing. If he can't join Atleti, he can join any other club on a free once he's terminated at Chelsea.

His Lawyer is blatantly angling for constructive dismissal, and it's way more clear cut that the Eva Carneiro thing. (which was pretty clear in itself). The quote below is his lawyer :

"When he was with the Spanish national team in June, he was dismissed from Chelsea by Antonio Conte through a text message... the way in which it was carried out and the fact that it came out in public shows unfair behaviour and a lack of respect for the player and it is inadmissible and inexcusable on Antonio Conte's part."

"Not only have Chelsea not intervened or denied it either in public or in private, but they have renewed Conte's contract, demonstrating they agree with the dismissal of Diego Costa and the way in which it was processed."

"This discriminatory behaviour makes it impossible for Diego Costa to return to Chelsea while Antonio Conte is the coach, there is no condition for him to continue playing at Chelsea, which has already been passed on to those responsible several times."
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What on earth is this nonsense? You think a contract is invalid because of feelings? Costa signed the contract and he is obligated to fulfill it; it doesn't matter if the manager is mean to him or undermines him, he still has to do what he agreed to do in order to be paid. Do you honestly think that a boss being mean to you is grounds for being let off of your contractual obligations?

On top of that Conte wasn't even out of line, as Costa has been angling to leave Chelsea pretty much since he arrived-certainly dating to the summer when Conte arrived. It's well documented that he tried to leave this past January, and that disruption nearly derailed Chelsea's title bid. He was brought back into the team by agreeing to be sold in the summer, and now that the summer has arrived and he's been told that he will be sold he's trying to play as if he's some sort of blindsided victim? Give me a break; he's got no leg to stand on whatsoever, his lawyer posturing is pathetic. There is no case whatsoever and honestly Chelsea have the precedent to use against him-when players have depreciated their value by their own behavior it has not gone well for them historically.
 
TheReligion said:
I don't get the new managers coming in will get the better of Mourinho now comments?

Conte and his tactics were destroyed by JM at Old Trafford last season?

Unless you're referring to something else.
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Didn't United lose two games out of three vs Chelsea last season? So if 2-0 at Old Trafford counts as being destroyed, what is 4-0 at the Bridge?
 
D2Z said:
Costa is an absolute cretin, hope Chelsea rot the feckers career off.
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There is a certain head coach who clearly wrote Costa out of his plan to begin with. Smoke & fire....
 
ti vu said:
There is a certain head coach who clearly wrote Costa out of his plan to begin with. Smoke & fire....
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Conte started Costa in every game until he started angling for a move to China midway through a title challenge. He'd have dropped him from the start of last season if he was out of his plans from the start.

If Costs really wanted a move he'd actually put a transfer request in and get fit rather than feck about on jet skis in Brazil.
 
antihenry said:
Didn't United lose two games out of three vs Chelsea last season? So if 2-0 at Old Trafford counts as being destroyed, what is 4-0 at the Bridge?
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Not sure your point?

Mine was pretty clear and in response to someone stating new managers will get the better of Mourinho as he's dated..

Obviously that's not true.
 
owlo said:
If he didn't have a solid constructive dismissal case to terminate his contract before, he certainly has one now. Not smart from Conte at any stage.



Sue him for what? The manager has made it clear he doesn't want him. Costa is obviously not accepting any wages or returning to the club because he feels his position is undermined.

Unless Chelsea sack Conte and then he still doesn't return, they should be entitled to nothing. If he can't join Atleti, he can join any other club on a free once he's terminated at Chelsea.

His Lawyer is blatantly angling for constructive dismissal, and it's way more clear cut that the Eva Carneiro thing. (which was pretty clear in itself). The quote below is his lawyer :

"When he was with the Spanish national team in June, he was dismissed from Chelsea by Antonio Conte through a text message... the way in which it was carried out and the fact that it came out in public shows unfair behaviour and a lack of respect for the player and it is inadmissible and inexcusable on Antonio Conte's part."

"Not only have Chelsea not intervened or denied it either in public or in private, but they have renewed Conte's contract, demonstrating they agree with the dismissal of Diego Costa and the way in which it was processed."

"This discriminatory behaviour makes it impossible for Diego Costa to return to Chelsea while Antonio Conte is the coach, there is no condition for him to continue playing at Chelsea, which has already been passed on to those responsible several times."
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Interesting. Could be a bit more to this. I'm no expert in employment law but sounds like this could rumble on.

Quite a mess really.
 
UsualSuspect said:
I can guarantee that if he runs down his contract, and doesn't train, not only will he not get paid, but the club will seek legal action against him to recoup his value. He is undercutting the board drastically and harming their ability to negotiate a fair deal.

Atletico won't even offer the 40m he is clearly worth. So Costa goes off the rails in a bid to lower his value to the selling club and push for a transfer.
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Apparently Athletico have offered "more" than Chelsea paid for him. Costa mentions this in his interview yesterday. So could be a £35m bid on the table with Chelsea seeking about £50m.
 
TheReligion said:
I don't get the new managers coming in will get the better of Mourinho now comments?

Conte and his tactics were destroyed by JM at Old Trafford last season?

Unless you're referring to something else.
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Nothing was destroyed in your 2-0 win. If that passes for destroying these days at old Trafford then I feel bad for you.

Anyway my point was not just about Conte alone it was about all elite young managers. Poch, Conte, Jardim, Zidane and even Klopp before he had joined that cult. I still like Mourinho but he is nowhere as inventive and charismatic as he was from 2004-2010, not even a shadow of what he was then.
 
AshfordLad said:
Nothing was destroyed in your 2-0 win. If that passes for destroying these days at old Trafford then I feel bad for you.

Anyway my point was not just about Conte alone it was about all elite young managers. Poch, Conte, Jardim, Zidane and even Klopp before he had joined that cult. I still like Mourinho but he is nowhere as inventive and charismatic as he was from 2004-2010, not even a shadow of what he was then.
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It's pretty standard for fans to start under-rating people who leave the club, see Matic. Jose's reputation has undergone the same revisionism. What have the likes of Poch, Jardim and Klopp won to put them even in the same discussion as Mourinho, let alone better? Anyway, I think Jose's 11-12 Madrid side were brilliant, so you're wrong about him being past his best after 2010.
 
AshfordLad said:
Yeah Mourinho was trying to create a family like happy atmosphere and the players fecked him over. After his Read debacle he wanted a job with some harmony, to bad it was the right intention but at the wrong club. United are at this moment the right club for that sort of project. That said, Mourinho's ideas are a bit dated now and the new managers coming along are more often than not going to get better of him.


The sarcasm by the reporter saying "Are you in touch with him?"
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A bit dated? yeah who are these young managers coming up? oh good old klopp on his tactics press high up the pitch, can't defend shit, are has close winning the league has they were in 2010. Bet conte is doing the rounds dismantling the current chelsea side. One thing Mourinho I will give him credit, he's slowly moving players on with dignity, how rooney left united was anything but with grace, while conte wants to start a war with costa. Has for the spurs manager, well their your classic bottlers. We will see with Mourinho this season if he has changed, zidane well he has not exactly built a side yet, who comes into a job while barcelona are well on the decline it was a vert convenient time

Akshay said:
It's pretty standard for fans to start under-rating people who leave the club, see Matic. Jose's reputation has undergone the same revisionism. What have the likes of Poch, Jardim and Klopp won to put them even in the same discussion as Mourinho, let alone better? Anyway, I think Jose's 11-12 Madrid side were brilliant, so you're wrong about him being past his best after 2010.
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We will see how Mourinho does this season, he is still the most organized transfer manager in the business, he does not like over doing it in the transfer market where too many ingredient won't make a great dish, he's like a world class chef when comes to the transfer market. While the one game against west ham looks promising, we got to see how the season progresses, but he is building a strong foundation for the club to compete. If we see a united side looking more quicker in games, looking more aggressive and deadly in how we hurt sides, think Mourinho understands the team can't play like last season, which says to me the team is seeing an evolution not standing still but evolving year in year out. And he is buying strong characters for his team, which has been the problem for a while for united, players not having character to handle this stage
 
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AshfordLad said:
Nothing was destroyed in your 2-0 win. If that passes for destroying these days at old Trafford then I feel bad for you.
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Conte was completely out-thought in that game, just like Mourinho was outwitted in the 4-0 at the Bridge. I think we can honestly admit that.

Anyway my point was not just about Conte alone it was about all elite young managers. Poch, Conte, Jardim, Zidane and even Klopp before he had joined that cult. I still like Mourinho but he is nowhere as inventive and charismatic as he was from 2004-2010, not even a shadow of what he was then.
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Let's see. Poch has not won anything of note. All Klopp has done since joining Liverpool is bottle finals. Neither is his trophy haul at Dortmund massive enough to rival Jose. Jardim has won the league with Monaco, but he has yet to prove himself at the highest level. Zidane, to his credit, has shown good man-management and utilization of resources with the best team in the world, but again, he like Pep needs to step out of his comfort zone to be truly classed as elite. Conte's European record is still sketchy.

Sure, I am not denying that these talented managers have achieved varying degrees of success, but they cannot be compared yet with the likes of Mourinho and Ancelotti who have won it all.

With respect to charisma and inventiveness, so far I have seen Jose as passionate as ever and also very flexible tactically. For every game he had a different tactic last season. He has also played 3 at the back, which can be considered incorporating the current hipster trend in his repertoire, I suppose.

Mourinho is simply the best manager in the world and there is a distance between him, Ancelotti and the rest. At the moment, he is just not the most successful manager, of course.
 
Akshay said:
It's pretty standard for fans to start under-rating people who leave the club, see Matic. Jose's reputation has undergone the same revisionism. What have the likes of Poch, Jardim and Klopp won to put them even in the same discussion as Mourinho, let alone better? Anyway, I think Jose's 11-12 Madrid side were brilliant, so you're wrong about him being past his best after 2010.
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No. Fans on here overrate players/managers once they join United. Just look at the Jose discussions from 2013-16 and compare them to later. Same for Matic, before and after he signed and for Lukaku as well. Jose is a great manager but he is nowhere near his peak of 2004-2010. In terms of his current ability he doesn't come close to some one the managers around... Simeone for one.
I do agree on the 2011-12 squad though. It was a real gem and its somehow extremely under-rated.

Kapardin said:
Conte was completely out-thought in that game, just like Mourinho was outwitted in the 4-0 at the Bridge. I think we can honestly admit that.
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No. Conte chickened out of playing Ake at LWB and instead went for Azpi at LWB. That was the most crucial factor in the loss. Jose had a good plan but it was nowhere near as big of a factor as was Conte's poor selection.
For what its worth, I don't think the 4-0 win was Conte out-witting Mourinho either. It was the united players who were caught napping by the early goal and Joses' plan was down the drain from there.
 
Oneunited26 said:
A bit dated? yeah who are these young managers coming up? oh good old klopp on his tactics press high up the pitch, can't defend shit, are has close winning the league has they were in 2010. Bet conte is doing the rounds dismantling the current chelsea side. One thing Mourinho I will give him credit, he's slowly moving players on with dignity, how rooney left united was anything but with grace, while conte wants to start a war with costa. Has for the spurs manager, well their your classic bottlers. We will see with Mourinho this season if he has changed, zidane well he has not exactly built a side yet, who comes into a job while barcelona are well on the decline it was a vert convenient time
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:lol:
 
AshfordLad said:
No. Fans on here overrate players/managers once they join United. Just look at the Jose discussions from 2013-16 and compare them to later. Same for Matic, before and after he signed and for Lukaku as well. Jose is a great manager but he is nowhere near his peak of 2004-2010. In terms of his current ability he doesn't come close to some one the managers around... Simeone for one.
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We'll just have to see as the season unfolds then. For Matic, the difference in opinion has come from his performances so far in a United shirt which have been brilliant. I thought he would be a good signing for us as we needed a DM but I wasn't expecting this. I had concerns about Lukaku's hold up play, but again, he's done fairly well so far. I think Morata will be a good player for you too if Conte can get the best out of him.

I think you're being disingenuous if you want to claim some Chelsea fans on here haven't repeatedly revised their opinion of players once United signed them. I was told Matic couldn't hack it in a midfield two just a week ago. I'm also somehow supposed to believe that Morata was Conte's first choice all along. In January we were told the Costa thing was being blown out of all proportion by the media and there was no chance of Costa ever leaving, now we're told Costa wanted to leave in January so the whole thing is his fault.

Again, it's not unique to Chelsea fans by any means, fans of every club do such things. Some United fans rate Jose much higher because he's the United manager, some Chelsea fans will rate him lower because he's left their club after a poor season. If you have an explanation of why Jose's level suddenly fell off after 2010, I'd love to hear it.
 
Akshay said:
We'll just have to see as the season unfolds then. For Matic, the difference in opinion has come from his performances so far in a United shirt which have been brilliant. I thought he would be a good signing for us as we needed a DM but I wasn't expecting this. I had concerns about Lukaku's hold up play, but again, he's done fairly well so far. I think Morata will be a good player for you too if Conte can get the best out of him.

I think you're being disingenuous if you want to claim some Chelsea fans on here haven't repeatedly revised their opinion of players once United signed them. I was told Matic couldn't hack it in a midfield two just a week ago. I'm also somehow supposed to believe that Morata was Conte's first choice all along. In January we were told the Costa thing was being blown out of all proportion by the media and there was no chance of Costa ever leaving, now we're told Costa wanted to leave in January so the whole thing is his fault.

Again, it's not unique to Chelsea fans by any means, fans of every club do such things. Some United fans rate Jose much higher because he's the United manager, some Chelsea fans will rate him lower because he's left their club after a poor season. If you have an explanation of why Jose's level suddenly fell off after 2010, I'd love to hear it.
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Maybe fans do that. But you associating my post with that sort of reaction is dead wrong. As I said, I still like Jose but its hard not to see the new bread of managers are a step further in the evolution. The same way that Jose was ahead of the curve 10 years ago. Same goes for pep, its just the way football works.

As for Matic, I always knew he would be a success at the role Jose has for him and that is why I would have not sold him to United if in charge. From Chelsea point of view, its a bit more complicated. Matic is very limited in a 2 man midfield so I can see why Conte would want an upgrade.
 
Akshay said:
We'll just have to see as the season unfolds then. For Matic, the difference in opinion has come from his performances so far in a United shirt which have been brilliant. I thought he would be a good signing for us as we needed a DM but I wasn't expecting this. I had concerns about Lukaku's hold up play, but again, he's done fairly well so far. I think Morata will be a good player for you too if Conte can get the best out of him.

I think you're being disingenuous if you want to claim some Chelsea fans on here haven't repeatedly revised their opinion of players once United signed them. I was told Matic couldn't hack it in a midfield two just a week ago. I'm also somehow supposed to believe that Morata was Conte's first choice all along. In January we were told the Costa thing was being blown out of all proportion by the media and there was no chance of Costa ever leaving, now we're told Costa wanted to leave in January so the whole thing is his fault.

Again, it's not unique to Chelsea fans by any means, fans of every club do such things. Some United fans rate Jose much higher because he's the United manager, some Chelsea fans will rate him lower because he's left their club after a poor season. If you have an explanation of why Jose's level suddenly fell off after 2010, I'd love to hear it.
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I am sure Jose Mourinho has to fear conte for selling him a key player, wants to go 12 rounds with chelsea's best striker, oh the horror lol. I am very sure he has to fear klopp who will lose a key player and does not seem to understand his flooding ship, who's team is like rocky 2 in terms of a lack of plan in how to defend, poch bottled the title even to leicester of all teams. I am sure Simeone is giving Mourinho sleepless nights in another league lol, managers like over at spurs need to know how to win something before claiming their better. Jose is still the only manager even after 2010 to get the better of Barcelona, hell he's been the prime manager to find a way of beating Barcelona, his madrid run was pretty good from 2010-13
 
duffer said:
Conte started Costa in every game until he started angling for a move to China midway through a title challenge. He'd have dropped him from the start of last season if he was out of his plans from the start.

If Costs really wanted a move he'd actually put a transfer request in and get fit rather than feck about on jet skis in Brazil.
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That doesn't add up. He angled for a move to China, but is now supposedly refusing a transfer there, while being adamant that he only wants an Atletico move, a situation that's a little bit shitty because unlike China, the Spanish can't afford the transfer fees demanded by Chelsea.

*Edit* ok so there's the small matter of China's new rule on foreign transfers.

So its possible Costa angled for a China move, then saw it dematerialised before his eyes with that new rule and is now stuck of options.

:lol:
 
AshfordLad said:
Maybe fans do that. But you associating my post with that sort of reaction is dead wrong. As I said, I still like Jose but its hard not to see the new bread of managers are a step further in the evolution. The same way that Jose was ahead of the curve 10 years ago. Same goes for pep, its just the way football works.

As for Matic, I always knew he would be a success at the role Jose has for him and that is why I would have not sold him to United if in charge. From Chelsea point of view, its a bit more complicated. Matic is very limited in a 2 man midfield so I can see why Conte would want an upgrade.
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I guess I see football managers differently. For me the likes of Jose, Pep and Ancellotti are the type I'd want to hire most (hypothetically) because they've proven themselves for many seasons, and in multiple countries. I regard the recently successful as more 'flavor of the year' until they match that kind of track record. Simeone and Conte can be argued for, but I'd want to see what Simeone can do with a bigger budget and in a different league, while Conte needs to prove himself in Europe. I care more for a manager's intrinsic qualities, than being momentarily ahead of the curve. The best always adapt and learn new ways to succeed anyway.
 
Akshay said:
I guess I see football managers differently. For me the likes of Jose, Pep and Ancellotti are the type I'd want to hire most (hypothetically) because they've proven themselves for many seasons, and in multiple countries. I regard the recently successful as more 'flavor of the year' until they match that kind of track record. Simeone and Conte can be argued for, but I'd want to see what Simeone can do with a bigger budget and in a different league, while Conte needs to prove himself in Europe. I care more for a manager's intrinsic qualities, than being momentarily ahead of the curve. The best always adapt and learn new ways to succeed anyway.
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I who would much rather have someone who has less than 5 years of career and has won a couple of titles in a smaller league (or a couple of serious title challenges in Spain/England) than someone who has been going through the grind for 15 years. I don't think today's football allows for that sort of longevity.
 
AshfordLad said:
Nothing was destroyed in your 2-0 win. If that passes for destroying these days at old Trafford then I feel bad for you.

Anyway my point was not just about Conte alone it was about all elite young managers. Poch, Conte, Jardim, Zidane and even Klopp before he had joined that cult. I still like Mourinho but he is nowhere as inventive and charismatic as he was from 2004-2010, not even a shadow of what he was then.
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Suggest you watch the game again.

Conte was totally stifled and you didn't even manage a shot on goal over 90 minutes. JM tactically outclassed him, using Hererra to mark Hazard out of the game (amongst other things). Hence why saying he's dated and always gets found out by younger managers its nonsense. Ask Poch and Spurs how they got on at OT too.
 
Kapardin said:
Conte was completely out-thought in that game, just like Mourinho was outwitted in the 4-0 at the Bridge. I think we can honestly admit that.



Let's see. Poch has not won anything of note. All Klopp has done since joining Liverpool is bottle finals. Neither is his trophy haul at Dortmund massive enough to rival Jose. Jardim has won the league with Monaco, but he has yet to prove himself at the highest level. Zidane, to his credit, has shown good man-management and utilization of resources with the best team in the world, but again, he like Pep needs to step out of his comfort zone to be truly classed as elite. Conte's European record is still sketchy.

Sure, I am not denying that these talented managers have achieved varying degrees of success, but they cannot be compared yet with the likes of Mourinho and Ancelotti who have won it all.

With respect to charisma and inventiveness, so far I have seen Jose as passionate as ever and also very flexible tactically. For every game he had a different tactic last season. He has also played 3 at the back, which can be considered incorporating the current hipster trend in his repertoire, I suppose.

Mourinho is simply the best manager in the world and there is a distance between him, Ancelotti and the rest. At the moment, he is just not the most successful manager, of course.
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Good honest post. Refreshing.

AshfordLad said:
Maybe fans do that. But you associating my post with that sort of reaction is dead wrong. As I said, I still like Jose but its hard not to see the new bread of managers are a step further in the evolution. The same way that Jose was ahead of the curve 10 years ago. Same goes for pep, its just the way football works.

As for Matic, I always knew he would be a success at the role Jose has for him and that is why I would have not sold him to United if in charge. From Chelsea point of view, its a bit more complicated. Matic is very limited in a 2 man midfield so I can see why Conte would want an upgrade.
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As already mentioned this new breed you speak of has an awful lot to prove. Especially if you want to make comments that they will constantly get the better of the likes of Mourinho when the evidence of such disagrees.

And I think the question remains as to if you have actually upgraded on Matic. At the moment it doesn't look like you have. The evidence suggests Conte wanted to keep him but the player decided to move on. The jury is still out on Bakayoko who is yet to play a game in England yet and Danny Drinkwater is a downgrade whichever way you look at it.
 
AshfordLad said:
I who would much rather have someone who has less than 5 years of career and has won a couple of titles in a smaller league (or a couple of serious title challenges in Spain/England) than someone who has been going through the grind for 15 years. I don't think today's football allows for that sort of longevity.
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Strange opinion really. You'd rather have someone who'd won titles in Portugal for example, then Pep whose won titles in Spain and Germany because Pep has 'too much' managerial experience?

You seemed to believe that Jose was better than any new manager bar Simeone and would stay long term when he was at Chelsea.
 
Akshay said:
Strange opinion really. You'd rather have someone who'd won titles in Portugal for example, then Pep whose won titles in Spain and Germany because Pep has 'too much' managerial experience?

You seemed to believe that Jose was better than any new manager bar Simeone and would stay long term when he was at Chelsea.
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Yeah. He's talking shit.
 
duffer said:
Conte started Costa in every game until he started angling for a move to China midway through a title challenge. He'd have dropped him from the start of last season if he was out of his plans from the start.

If Costs really wanted a move he'd actually put a transfer request in and get fit rather than feck about on jet skis in Brazil.
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You know I was talking about the text message incident surely, right?

Player fall out with coach all the time. Thing is since it got to the point where Conte did what he did with the text message, then it's just domino chain. Can't really solely put the blame on Costa now.
 
TheReligion said:
As already mentioned this new breed you speak of has an awful lot to prove. Especially if you want to make comments that they will constantly get the better of the likes of Mourinho when the evidence of such disagrees.

And I think the question remains as to if you have actually upgraded on Matic. At the moment it doesn't look like you have. The evidence suggests Conte wanted to keep him but the player decided to move on. The jury is still out on Bakayoko who is yet to play a game in England yet and Danny Drinkwater is a downgrade whichever way you look at it.
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What utter nonsense. You have to be a natural to come up with such drivel. A normal person couldn't come up with such crap even if they tried.
 
TheReligion said:
And I think the question remains as to if you have actually upgraded on Matic. At the moment it doesn't look like you have. The evidence suggests Conte wanted to keep him but the player decided to move on. The jury is still out on Bakayoko who is yet to play a game in England yet and Danny Drinkwater is a downgrade whichever way you look at it.
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Even if Bakayoko isn't an upgrade on Matic right now, he's 6 years younger, cost the same transfer fee, and is on a lower salary. In 2-3 years he'll very very likely be the better player between the two.

On top of that, Bakayoko-Cesc-Kante is a pretty good approximation of that very good Juve trio of Pogba-Pirlo-Vidal, whereas Matic doesn't really fit there, so by adding Bakayoko we have a new tactical wrinkle going forward. I suspect the 3-5-1-1 may be something we use with regularity this season.
 
Akshay said:
Strange opinion really. You'd rather have someone who'd won titles in Portugal for example, then Pep whose won titles in Spain and Germany because Pep has 'too much' managerial experience?
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Yes, I would pick someone a la 2004-Mourinho or 2014-Simeone any time over 2016-Guardiola and its not even close. They are a lot better value for money with newer ideas and are not jaded by the continuous weight of expectations that come with being at the top for a while. Sure you would end up with an odd AVB but 9 times out of 10 you still end up with fresh ideas and unparalleled motivation.
Akshay said:
You seemed to believe that Jose was better than any new manager bar Simeone and would stay long term when he was at Chelsea.
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Yeah that was a couple of seasons back before Jardim, Zidane and Poch had properly arrived (I didn't follow Italian league so don't know of Conte that well admittedly). You're now just clutching straws mate if you are saying that I have been inconsistent in my evaluation of Jose. But that sort of denial is understandable given how most have fans on here have flipped their view on Jose since he joined united.
 
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TheMagicFoolBus said:
Even if Bakayoko isn't an upgrade on Matic right now, he's 6 years younger, cost the same transfer fee, and is on a lower salary. In 2-3 years he'll very very likely be the better player between the two.

On top of that, Bakayoko-Cesc-Kante is a pretty good approximation of that very good Juve trio of Pogba-Pirlo-Vidal, whereas Matic doesn't really fit there, so by adding Bakayoko we have a new tactical wrinkle going forward. I suspect the 3-5-1-1 may be something we use with regularity this season.
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That's a strawman argument anyways and a shit one at that. Matic was a DM being played as a B2B player in the 3-4-3 formation. Any decent B2B player player (probably even a 39yo Lampard) would be a better fit for that formation than Matic.

As for the actual player, I think Bakayoko had a great 2nd half (bar the mistake for freekick) and totally bossed Wnyama and held his own against Dembele all this is with no preseason. Cant weight to see what he does on full fitness. I followed his movement off the ball several times today and it came across well seasoned with the use of pace, something we lacked with making Matic play that role.

All we need for the midfield now is a stop-gap/backup for a season or two till we have a choice of Kante, Bakayoko, Loftus-Cheek and possibly even Chalobah(if theres a clause).
 
AshfordLad said:
That's a strawman argument anyways and a shit one at that. Matic was a DM being played as a B2B player in the 3-4-3 formation. Any decent B2B player player (probably even a 39yo Lampard) would be a better fit for that formation than Matic.

As for the actual player, I think Bakayoko had a great 2nd half (bar the mistake for freekick) and totally bossed Dembele and Wnyama and this is with no preseason. Cant weight to see what he does on full fitness. I followed his movement off the ball several times today and it came across well seasoned with the use of pace, something we lacked with making Matic play that role.

All we need for the midfield now is a stop-gap/backup for a season or two till we have a choice of Kante, Bakayoko, Loftus-Cheek and possibly even Chalobah(if theres a clause).
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I think you misunderstand me, we're on the same page. I think Bakayoko is an upgrade personally as he's a much better fit for the system we play. Matic still has a lot to offer but in Conte's 3 CB system he's a square peg in a round hole. What I'm saying is that even if one concedes that Matic might be better than Bakayoko this season (again, I disagree, but whatever), it's still good business by the club going forward.
 
TheMagicFoolBus said:
I think you misunderstand me, we're on the same page. I think Bakayoko is an upgrade personally as he's a much better fit for the system we play. Matic still has a lot to offer but in Conte's 3 CB system he's a square peg in a round hole. What I'm saying is that even if one concedes that Matic might be better than Bakayoko this season (again, I disagree, but whatever), it's still good business by the club going forward.
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I was not calling your post a strawman argument. I was referring to @TheReligion's post (the one you quoted). He replied to my post (if which I say I can understand why Conte would want an upgrade) but his ramblings have nothing to do with it.
 
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