Chelsea 2020/21 - General discussion

You win the Europa and still make at least €40-50m less when you'd earn from CL tv deal. Can Chelsea afford this and stick with Lampard? I don't think. Fulham A, Leicester A, Wolves H and Burnley H next.
 
GoonerBear said:
What should be worrying Chelsea more than anything is that by Thursday night, Arsenal if the beat Palace at home (& yeah that's a big if this season) will be in level points with them, of course with Chelsea's game still to play.

That was inconceivable about a month ago considering what a disaster of a season we've had!
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You'd also be just 3 points behind Spurs and City albeit they have games in hand. It says more about the league being quite crazy this season that a small run of consecutive wins can really shoot a team up the league.
 
WeePat said:
You'd also be just 3 points behind Spurs and City albeit they have games in hand. It says more about the league being quite crazy this season that a small run of consecutive wins can really shoot a team up the league.
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True. Not that I'm saying we have defo turned the corner & are going to go on a good run. Like you say, this season is mental. Let's see how fatigue, injuries & Covid with this condensed season affects results in the 2nd part of the season, could put stuff all up in the air again. That's why I wouldn't be judging anyone so soon, good or bad, as the season can change round quickly.
 
WeePat said:
You'd also be just 3 points behind Spurs and City albeit they have games in hand. It says more about the league being quite crazy this season that a small run of consecutive wins can really shoot a team up the league.
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Tbh this last seven games has fecked my faith in Lampard. It's not the results it's the performance, we look absolutely clueless and he can't hide behind a shit squad either as on paper we're 3rd in best Xl, depth wise you can argue even higher.

I do think he did an excellent job last season with the obstacles we've faced but now the expectations have gone up a notch the job is looking too big for him.
 
Dancfc said:
Tbh this last seven games has fecked my faith in Lampard. It's not the results it's the performance, we look absolutely clueless and he can't hide behind a shit squad either as on paper we're 3rd in best Xl, depth wise you can argue even higher.

I do think he did an excellent job last season with the obstacles we've faced but now the expectations have gone up a notch the job is looking too big for him.
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It has rocked my faith a little too. I haven't lost that hope in him, but I'm less confident about the rest of the season.
 
Avram rumoured to be maybe coming back to assist Frank in some way. Said it from day dot he needs an experienced man alongside him to help, Jody Morris, Joe Edwards are not it. Quite simple really

However, if this does happen, it does have the feel of "being in position" should Frank be axed. Interim role
 
I want Frank to succeed, but if he doesn't, there are really no excuses. He got everyone he wanted minus Rice in the summer transfer window. Almost all first choices. How many mangers get that?
 
Berbaclass said:
1/6 then. I'll call Chilwell a success right now. All the other five I think are questionable.
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Chilwell and Silva are definitely successes at the moment. Mendy is nothing special but a stopgap upgrade over Kepa so rate him as you'd like. I'd say Ziyech has been excellent when he's played as he seems to be their only creative outlet outside the fullbacks, but he's been injured. Hard to call him a failure at this point.

Havertz and Werner have been awful, no doubt about that. I have my doubts if Werner will ever be more than a 10-15 goal a season striker in this league unless Frank completely changes his style of play to build around him.
 
Can't see Lampard working well with Grant...

Grant is trusted by Mr A I think, presumably would be more of a direct "mole" in the camp to report back the situation with the squad as Mr A himself won't enter the UK for the moment due to the diplomatic "climate".
 
Chelsea’s season is just all about which week will Lampard get fired now.
 
Mb194dc said:
Can't see Lampard working well with Grant...

Grant is trusted by Mr A I think, presumably would be more of a direct "mole" in the camp to report back the situation with the squad as Mr A himself won't enter the UK for the moment due to the diplomatic "climate".
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i think he will be there to step in if frank goes. Suspect thats part of the thinking too, if it happens. Lampard and Grant do respect each other, though

Big test for Frank Saturday, Fulham will be tough and a fair improvement will be needed from the Morecambe performance
 
If the Grant rumours are true that would be just about the stupidest thing Chelsea could do imaginable. What on earth could serial failure Avram Grant contribute at this point aside from instability? The man was out of his depth from day one and has done nothing since to suggest otherwise - including his most recent position as a coach in the Indian league. Chelsea got the the CL final in 08/09 because Terry, Lampard, and Drogba stood up and effectively managed the team; Grant had nothing to do with it.

If it's a question between Lampard and Tuchel, then fair enough that should be asked. Lampard versus Grant though wasn't even worth asking when the former was still playing, let alone now.
 
I think "journalists" are speculating that Grant and Roman are friends and he would keep the seat warm for the next manager should we keep dropping points. If there is a shred of truth to it, it probably only means they have in mind who they would bring in but must wait until the end of this season.

Personally, I think it is BS.
 
duffer said:
Why? Is Bild a reliable source (I genuinely don't know)?
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More reliable than most, but even then they sensationalize things. Non binding contract just means representatives from the club spoke directly with the managers to discuss interest in the job. The fact that people from Chelsea are speaking to possible replacements should have Frank's attention.
 
duffer said:
Why? Is Bild a reliable source (I genuinely don't know)?
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Questionable newspaper it may be but their football section (at least when it comes to German football) is very reliable and they are usually the first ones to break any major story/deal as they are so well connected.
 
I actually think Lampard respects Grant a fair bit as he was manager there when Lampard's Mum passed away and gave him some time off and support. I doubt though he'd want him back as advisor as optics on that wouldn't look great.

If Ray Wilkins was still around they'll probably try to get him back as some sort of experienced head behind the scenes who wouldn't be any threat for numer one job.

Was trying to think of another obvious person with links to Chelsea but could only think of Zola who was number 2 under Sarri.

Fulham is big game now. You really could see Chelsea losing that given the results Fulham have been getting over last 6 weeks. Chelsea need the first goal in that pretty badly.
 
Jokes aside vital win for Chelsea tonight. They didn't look great but they just need to keep grinding them out until they find some kind of form and Frank settles on his best team. Mount was good and works very hard. They are missing his goals this season but he's still the best of the bunch in that role. Would like to see more of Billy G and CHO.

Werner looks awful and was rightly benched but he needs goals and confidence. Tricky for Frank. Also Havertz seems nowhere near contention.
 
Hudson-Odoi has got some incredibly fast footwork with the ball at times. He'd be a nightmare to defend against when on it.
 
Harry Harries said:
Hudson-Odoi has got some incredibly fast footwork with the ball at times. He'd be a nightmare to defend against when on it.
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His lobbed pass to Chilwell just before the goal will go under the radar but it's was a top class spot from that position, his decision making is so underrated.
 
Vital win, but we still look poor, tbh

I think it buys Frank some time, doesnt make his position safe, a loss to Leicester and the questions start being asked again, followed by Wolves in the league. Has to win both
 
Dancfc said:
His lobbed pass to Chilwell just before the goal will go under the radar but it's was a top class spot from that position, his decision making is so underrated.
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He's been our best attacker by an absolute mile in the last 4 weeks. I don't understand how he isn't an outright starter ahead of Pulisic yet.
 
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Dancfc said:
His lobbed pass to Chilwell just before the goal will go under the radar but it's was a top class spot from that position, his decision making is so underrated.
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Yeah that was top class. Completely took out the entire Fulham defence. Great bit of play.
 
WeePat said:
He's been our best attacker by an absolute mile in the last 4 weeks. I don't understand how he isn't an outright starter ahead of Pulisic yet.
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Insane potential on him, needs to play every week, if not at Chelsea then somewhere else.
 
WeePat said:
He's been our best attacker by an absolute mile in the last 4 weeks. I don't understand how he isn't an outright starter ahead of Pulisic yet.
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Lampard can surely only be going on reputation/gratitude for his performances at the business end last season at this point, like how Kante kept getting in the side last season despite us being much better when he didn't play.

This game pretty much summed up why CHO was rated higher out of the two when we signed Pulisic. After the post lockdown part of the season I thought he was breaking through to a world level, he still might eventually but Puli's tunnel vision from Dortmund/early Chelsea time has returned with a vengeance of late.

Could history be about to repeat itself for him, ala gets benched for another English kid who then proceeds to leave him for dust?
 
TheReligion said:
Jokes aside vital win for Chelsea tonight. They didn't look great but they just need to keep grinding them out until they find some kind of form and Frank settles on his best team. Mount was good and works very hard. They are missing his goals this season but he's still the best of the bunch in that role. Would like to see more of Billy G and CHO.

Werner looks awful and was rightly benched but he needs goals and confidence. Tricky for Frank. Also Havertz seems nowhere near contention.
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Agreed but the issue for me is that a huge part of why we looked so poor was the team selection. Ziyech is a wonderful creator but part of what makes him so special is the space he creates for an overlapping right back. He's not someone who is great in 1v1 situations; he's at his best when there are other creative players for him to combine with. Playing Azpilicueta behind him nullifies a huge part of what makes Ziyech great - I lost track of the number of times Ziyech put Azpi through, the cross was delayed, and smashed into the recovering defender. It's not a coincidence we looked better with CHO there - he can take defenders on 1v1 and as such is far less dependent on his fullback.

I'm also just sick of any midfield with Jorginho and Kovacic - we've seen it for ages and it just doesn't work, especially in a midfield 3. People don't understand what makes Kovacic good - he is a terrible 8 because that role involves getting between the lines and receiving the ball with your back to goal. Kovacic needs to play in a midfield 2 with a deep-lying defensive midfielder alongside him. In that situation, he's facing forward when he receives most of the time and can actually run at defenders and progress the ball by carrying it. It's more or less the same role Kante should be playing at this point.

The most worrying thing for me though was that Lampard justified his selection by saying he'd picked "leaders" - those he picked aren't leaders, they're just old. Jorginho isn't a leader, Giroud isn't, Azpilicueta never has been. It's like he's looking for stupid reasons to not play our academy players, who frankly have been in better nick than anyone else at the moment. CHO has to play. On balance this year Tammy has been our best striker. James is vital for us at both ends.

It already looks like this poor squad management is going to cost us Tomori. That we still don't have an explanation for why he's been frozen out is ridiculous.
 
TheReligion said:
Jokes aside vital win for Chelsea tonight. They didn't look great but they just need to keep grinding them out until they find some kind of form and Frank settles on his best team. Mount was good and works very hard. They are missing his goals this season but he's still the best of the bunch in that role. Would like to see more of Billy G and CHO.

Werner looks awful and was rightly benched but he needs goals and confidence. Tricky for Frank. Also Havertz seems nowhere near contention.
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Sending off changed everything I think, Fulham were pretty comfortable 11 v 11.

Don't think Chelsea win at Leicester with that level. That said their fixtures aside from Spurs away after midweek are pretty decent so Lampard certainly needs a decent winning run before they hit Atletico Madrid, nightmare fixture list either side of those two games.
 
I watched the Chelsea game today and was not impressed, with all that talent they should be doing a lot better.

Of the three inexperienced managers (Lampard, Solskjaer & Arteta) I wouldn't be surprised if Lampard is the first to go. It may be just my perception, but he doesn't seem to aspire warmth and comradery with his players in comparison to the other two managers. Plus Chelsea pretty much went out and bought a team within one transfer window...which means Lampard is under more pressure.

Ole and Arteta could only dream of getting that kind of support in the transfer market.
 
Brad2020 said:
I watched the Chelsea game today and was not impressed, with all that talent they should be doing a lot better.

Of the three inexperienced managers (Lampard, Solskjaer & Arteta) I wouldn't be surprised if Lampard is the first to go. It may be just my perception, but he doesn't seem to aspire warmth and comradery with his players in comparison to the other two managers. Plus Chelsea pretty much went out and bought a team within one transfer window...which means Lampard is under more pressure.

Ole and Arteta could only dream of getting that kind of support in the transfer market.
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Ole has spent more than Frank over the last two summers and January inbetween (and didn't have to contend with losing his talisman either), lets not pretend his dealing in poverty, neithers Arteta for that matter.
 
Dancfc said:
Ole has spent more than Frank over the last two summers and January inbetween (and didn't have to contend with losing his talisman either), lets not pretend his dealing in poverty, neithers Arteta for that matter.
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Not by much
Last 2 seasons
Ole 310mil€
Lampard 290mil€


edit: if you take last 5 season - Chelsea have spent 120mil more than Utd
 
duffer said:
Ole has spent more than Frank.
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That is because Chelsea had a transfer ban in 2019. You could argue that they were making up for lost time, but Chelsea's net spend of 222 million was far larger than United's 87 million in last summer's transfer window.

Even when you take in the profit from the sale of outgoing players....something United has been miserable at under Woodward.
 
TheMagicFoolBus said:
Chelsea got the the CL final in 08/09 because Terry, Lampard, and Drogba stood up and effectively managed the team; Grant had nothing to do with it.
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Has there ever been any evidence that this was true or is it just something people like to say to avoid giving Grant credit? I mean, it’s pretty weird that Lampard was a better manager as an unqualified 29 year old than he is now.

It also makes Mourinho look like a bit of a fraud. If that team was capable of managing itself to marginally losing the two biggest trophies to the best Manchester United side of all time, what the hell was he doing between 2004 and 2007?
 
Dancfc said:
Ole has spent more than Frank over the last two summers and January inbetween (and didn't have to contend with losing his talisman either), lets not pretend his dealing in poverty, neithers Arteta for that matter.
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Has he? Total outlay is one way to look at it, but it’s not perfect as it’s not like Ole negotiated the price of Maguire or Wan Bissaka for example

I know Ole was asking for a central defender and a right winger all summer long and neither of those positions were filled because our CEO/ chief negotiator had spent too much in the first place. So we couldn’t get Sancho over the line, whereas Frank got all his transfer targets done.

So you could say one manager got his player the other didn’t. Marina being much more competent than Woodie in the transfer market being the difference
 
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