Chelsea 2020/21 - General discussion

I think the biggest challenge for Chelsea right now is to figure out balance between defence and attack. It always seems like they can't do both of them in a single game. When they attack, they commit way too many players, and a loss in possession leaves them short at the back and they conceded goals.
And when they defend, like they did vs us, they don't plan on attacking at all.

I'm not sure if he will get it right, but even if he does I'm not sure if it'll be at Chelsea as I think he'll lose the dressing room if he continues giving such post match interviews
 
What I find most surprising - Before the season, I looked at Chelsea thinking that they will score goals for fun, and be shaky defensively.

What has happened ?

When they score - it's mainly from set-pieces - often from defenders. Zouma could beat some record here if this continues.
Going forward they look slow and poor - and don't score goals.
Defensively - they look solid.

The way I look at it - this must be a major concern for Lampard. Because it wll be really hard for him to justify to the clubs owners - yes we have Abraham, Pulisic, Mount, Hudson-Odoy - and you gave me £120 million to sign Werner and Havertz - but I need better players. It would be easier if it was like we expected - and Lampard could say I need a new defender or 2 to really have a team capable of fighting for the title.

But now he has attacking players - who on paper should be good enough - but arent. And defensive players who arent good enough, but who have performed above expectation so they almost look good enough.
 
James Peril said:
Which is exactly what everyone is saying about United and Solskjær, ironically.
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That’s what the media where saying and the knee-jerkers on the Internet followed.

I can tell you the sentiment amongst match-going fans in Manchester was totally different.

My main “gripe” (I say “gripe” but actually it’s currently great for United) is that Frank Lampard has a really good squad at Chelsea. The team Ole inherited was garbage. The team Arteta inherited at Arsenal was garbage. Therefore, they ought to be cut some slack.

Even if you give Lampard last season as a free pass (I would score the season a “C” at best) there has to be some signs of improvement this season after spending £220m on an already above average squad - and there isn’t.

What’s more damning is that far from Frank solving problems one by one (as Ole has done), Frank is creating problems with his signings and tactics/team selections
 
duffer said:
It's the Man United fans doing the doubting!

I swear that Lampard gets shit on here because Chelsea fans are not as shitty to him as some Man United fans were to Ole.
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Think this is it in a nutshell. There are constant comparisons between Lampard, Ole & Arteta especially. Which is fair enough. But to me, on here, because Ole seemed to get a hard time on the media or off his own fans, it's used as a stick to beat Lampard & Arteta with.

For what it's worth, I think all 3 managers deserve time. They haven't all been perfect by any means, especially Arteta, but I keep reading that a more competent manager would get more out these clubs. Really, like that's a guarantee? Mourinho, Emery, Sarri, all terrible managers now?
 
Havertz has been a really poor buy. They need a midfield spark and hes just not it, what did the scouts see in him ?
 
lysglimt said:
What I find most surprising - Before the season, I looked at Chelsea thinking that they will score goals for fun, and be shaky defensively.

What has happened ?

When they score - it's mainly from set-pieces - often from defenders. Zouma could beat some record here if this continues.
Going forward they look slow and poor - and don't score goals.
Defensively - they look solid.

The way I look at it - this must be a major concern for Lampard. Because it wll be really hard for him to justify to the clubs owners - yes we have Abraham, Pulisic, Mount, Hudson-Odoy - and you gave me £120 million to sign Werner and Havertz - but I need better players. It would be easier if it was like we expected - and Lampard could say I need a new defender or 2 to really have a team capable of fighting for the title.

But now he has attacking players - who on paper should be good enough - but arent. And defensive players who arent good enough, but who have performed above expectation so they almost look good enough.
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I just checked his stats, and Zouma has already scored 4 EPL goals this season. Impressive.

But not as impressive as the fact his middle name is Happy. Well done him.
 
Gringo said:
Havertz has been a really poor buy. They need a midfield spark and hes just not it, what did the scouts see in him ?
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Wasn't just Chelsea. Loads of clubs had identified him. I think he'll come good, he's still really young transitioning to a new team/league.
 
Gringo said:
Havertz has been a really poor buy. They need a midfield spark and hes just not it, what did the scouts see in him ?
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I think he just needs time. He's a young lad in his first season, it's usually fair to give new signings a year before judging them. He had Covid too which might still be having an impact on him.
 
groovyalbert said:
I just checked his stats, and Zouma has already scored 4 EPL goals this season. Impressive.

But not as impressive as the fact his middle name is Happy. Well done him.
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Happier than Kurt Cobain that is for sure.

Since the former was born six months after the latter committed suicide, the parents probably thought they should add the middle name as caveat.

Thanks to him, Chelsea's performances finally smell like team spirit.
 
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groovyalbert said:
But not as impressive as the fact his middle name is Happy. Well done him.
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Also, he is named Kurt after Jean-Claude Van Damme's character in the classic film Kickboxer.

"When my mother was pregnant with me she was sitting watching a movie with my father.

"It was kickboxer, with Jean Claude Van Damme playing a guy called Kurt, and my father said 'This baby coming, we're going to call him Kurt, because he will be strong'.

"My mother just added one thing, 'Okay, but we are going to call him Happy as well, because he will bring happiness. He will be smiling all day, every day'.
 
lysglimt said:
What I find most surprising - Before the season, I looked at Chelsea thinking that they will score goals for fun, and be shaky defensively.

What has happened ?

When they score - it's mainly from set-pieces - often from defenders. Zouma could beat some record here if this continues.
Going forward they look slow and poor - and don't score goals.
Defensively - they look solid.

The way I look at it - this must be a major concern for Lampard. Because it wll be really hard for him to justify to the clubs owners - yes we have Abraham, Pulisic, Mount, Hudson-Odoy - and you gave me £120 million to sign Werner and Havertz - but I need better players. It would be easier if it was like we expected - and Lampard could say I need a new defender or 2 to really have a team capable of fighting for the title.

But now he has attacking players - who on paper should be good enough - but arent. And defensive players who arent good enough, but who have performed above expectation so they almost look good enough.
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I don't think they look slow and poor going forward - on the contrary, speed is perhaps their best offensive attribute.

Also, it's easy to think that the emphasis on defensive improvement (which to be fair was something Lampard had to fix) has had a stifling effect on their offensive game. It's true that in some games they've just gone out with a very defensive gameplan. But mostly they haven't, and it's hard to square that idea with how important their full backs are to their offensive game, and how involved they are in that aspect of the game. Improved goaltending is I think the better part of the explanation for their improved defensive performance. Also, Thiago Silva seems to allow Zouma and the others to play more within their comfort zone.

But obviously, something is missing. They've got all kinds of skill and quality, but it's not gelling for them, not consistently anyway. Maybe it just needs more time. Or maybe Lampard needs to stick with a regular first four up front for a while. Ideally, Pulisic-Havertz-Ziyech with Werner as striker, and Chilwell and James supporting on the overlap. But right now, their best bet in th eshort term looks to me to be building around Giroud, and doing whatever it takes to get him the ball int the box.

Might do with more stability in central midfield too.
 
justsomebloke said:
I don't think they look slow and poor going forward - on the contrary, speed is perhaps their best offensive attribute.

Also, it's easy to think that the emphasis on defensive improvement (which to be fair was something Lampard had to fix) has had a stifling effect on their offensive game. It's true that in some games they've just gone out with a very defensive gameplan. But mostly they haven't, and it's hard to square that idea with how important their full backs are to their offensive game, and how involved they are in that aspect of the game. Improved goaltending is I think the better part of the explanation for their improved defensive performance. Also, Thiago Silva seems to allow Zouma and the others to play more within their comfort zone.

But obviously, something is missing. They've got all kinds of skill and quality, but it's not gelling for them, not consistently anyway. Maybe it just needs more time. Or maybe Lampard needs to stick with a regular first four up front for a while. Ideally, Pulisic-Havertz-Ziyech with Werner as striker, and Chilwell and James supporting on the overlap. But right now, their best bet in th eshort term looks to me to be building around Giroud, and doing whatever it takes to get him the ball int the box.

Might do with more stability in central midfield too.
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Yes they have pace - but the last 3-4 matches, they have looked anything but pacy
 
According to Ian McGarry and Duncan Duncan Castles on The Transfer Window podcast. No chance of lampard being dismissed any time soon. Club are gonna back him and try to get his no1 target Declan Rice in January if not then in the summer. Alot of the summer signings werent his priority, he wanted to concentrate on the defence not midfield. He hasnt got all the players he wanted or requires for his squad as yet and seniors are happy that he is playing youn players who have come through the academy.

Its early days with a very young squad and the seniors are backing him.
 
dinostar77 said:
According to Ian McGarry and Duncan Duncan Castles on The Transfer Window podcast. No chance of lampard being dismissed any time soon. Club are gonna back him and try to get his no1 target Declan Rice in January if not then in the summer. Alot of the summer signings werent his priority, he wanted to concentrate on the defence not midfield. He hasnt got all the players he wanted or requires for his squad as yet and seniors are happy that he is playing youn players who have come through the academy.

Its early days with a very young squad and the seniors are backing him.
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He spent quite a lot of the latter part of last season moaning about their attacking qualities and not so much the defence...
 
UNITED ACADEMY said:
That bold one is what I never understand about the club’s fans. A month ago they said good and positive things what their own manager done and bring to the the team. And within 5-6 games, it’s enough to turn those good and positive things disappear from the exact same Chelsea fans said about the manager. I heard this a lot from Chelsea fans particularly, some in this forum, some in YouTube and even my mate Chelsea fans.

Not like I ever agree with every single those good and positive things you lot said because I never see it with Frank even last season but if lot of you last month talked about the positivity what he brings to the team and hyping him up then surely it’s fair to stick with those positivity and trust the manager’s process. How is one month of football is enough to make the positive things disappear. Otherwise, you lot were just lying to yourself last month.
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Hence starting to think. Why is sober and honest assessment less preferable than blind support?

When Lampard was doing well, I stated he was doing well. He's now been doing badly and I said as such. If he had a decades-long career and established track record, I'd give him more of the benefit of the doubt. That's obviously not the case.
 
dinostar77 said:
According to Ian McGarry and Duncan Duncan Castles on The Transfer Window podcast. No chance of lampard being dismissed any time soon. Club are gonna back him and try to get his no1 target Declan Rice in January if not then in the summer. Alot of the summer signings werent his priority, he wanted to concentrate on the defence not midfield. He hasnt got all the players he wanted or requires for his squad as yet and seniors are happy that he is playing youn players who have come through the academy.

Its early days with a very young squad and the seniors are backing him.
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So he is planning to play Rice as a CB? Doubt West Ham will sell in January.
 
dinostar77 said:
They said Rice was wanted for his ability to play in a back 3 and front of the centre backs as an holding midfielder.
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Yeah, I guess going forward his ability to slot into a back 3 might be helpful, but for this season at least I can't see us using that kind of system as long as Silva is fit.
 
TheMagicFoolBus said:
Hence starting to think. Why is sober and honest assessment less preferable than blind support?

When Lampard was doing well, I stated he was doing well. He's now been doing badly and I said as such. If he had a decades-long career and established track record, I'd give him more of the benefit of the doubt. That's obviously not the case.
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One month of bad thing shouldn’t make you forget all the positive things you said about him last month (post below). Was it (post below) just a big fat lie to suit your argument or you completely forget all those positive progress he had done as Chelsea manager that excited you? If the post below is not big fat lie then it’s not blind support because the manager has reasons to be trusted and supported.

TheMagicFoolBus said:
for me Lampard has clearly done a better job of establishing a style of play and working to address the needs of the team in the transfer market. I am excited that our young players seem to consistently be improving and are being managed appropriately, and that problems with our style of play are being fixed. Finally, our underlying expected goals numbers are better than yours and were last season as well, suggesting Lampard was unlucky overall in terms of finishing and being saddled with a historically bad goalkeeper.
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UNITED ACADEMY said:
One month of bad thing shouldn’t make you forget all the positive things you said about him last month (post below). Was it (post below) just a big fat lie to suit your argument or you completely forget all those positive progress he had done as Chelsea manager that excited you? If the post below is not big fat lie then it’s not blind support because the manager has reasons to be trusted and supported.
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Mate, I'm not saying he needs to be sacked tomorrow. If he continues to make idiotic team selection decisions that undermine the good work he's doing elsewhere, that's a problem that should be addressed.

There's a bizarre trend among much of United's fanbase in particular that you have to be either in or out on your manager and that no one is allowed to switch sides or have a nuanced take. Perhaps this is because you've had a series of polarising managers in the wake of (very obviously) the best manager ever, but Chelsea fans are used to having managers that come and go and are evaluated on a shorter-term basis. I completely stand by everything I've said about Lampard on here; it's telling that you think my posts are "big fat lies", apparently.
 
TheMagicFoolBus said:
Mate, I'm not saying he needs to be sacked tomorrow. If he continues to make idiotic team selection decisions that undermine the good work he's doing elsewhere, that's a problem that should be addressed.

There's a bizarre trend among much of United's fanbase in particular that you have to be either in or out on your manager and that no one is allowed to switch sides or have a nuanced take. Perhaps this is because you've had a series of polarising managers in the wake of (very obviously) the best manager ever, but Chelsea fans are used to having managers that come and go and are evaluated on a shorter-term basis. I completely stand by everything I've said about Lampard on here; it's telling that you think my posts are "big fat lies", apparently.
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I never say you say he needs to be sacked tomorrow. I was talking about how based on 5-6 games can make fans (like you for example) forget all the positive things you said about him last month. I can understand if you start doubting him after 3-6 months but 5-6 games of one bad aspect should not undermine tons of good works you mentioned (post below), unless if what you said were just big fat lie.
TheMagicFoolBus said:
for me Lampard has clearly done a better job of establishing a style of play and working to address the needs of the team in the transfer market. I am excited that our young players seem to consistently be improving and are being managed appropriately, and that problems with our style of play are being fixed. Finally, our underlying expected goals numbers are better than yours and were last season as well, suggesting Lampard was unlucky overall in terms of finishing and being saddled with a historically bad goalkeeper.
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Declan Rice to us is such an obvious transfer which will happen in the summer. Was listening to David Ornstein other day and he claimed very good contacts of his, close to Declan Rice, have said its a case of when, rather than if
 
ZolaWasMagic said:
Declan Rice to us is such an obvious transfer which will happen in the summer. Was listening to David Ornstein other day and he claimed very good contacts of his, close to Declan Rice, have said its a case of when, rather than if
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I know Havertz hasn't been good so far but I'm curious if you have the choice to come back again last summer to choose to spend the money on between Rice or Havertz, which one would you choose? It's not like there is a club can afford Havertz last summer which means you could come back to sign him in 2021 if you choose to sign Rice & stick with Mount & RLC in 2020.
 
ZolaWasMagic said:
Declan Rice to us is such an obvious transfer which will happen in the summer. Was listening to David Ornstein other day and he claimed very good contacts of his, close to Declan Rice, have said its a case of when, rather than if
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Yes you told us all you were signing Sancho as he supported Chelsea and had a tattoo of Dennis Wise on his ball sack.
 
UNITED ACADEMY said:
I know Havertz hasn't been good so far but I'm curious if you have the choice to come back again last summer to choose to spend the money on between Rice or Havertz, which one would you choose? It's not like there is a club can afford Havertz last summer which means you could come back to sign him in 2021 if you choose to sign Rice & stick with Mount & RLC in 2020.
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Rice all day. Havertz has been a disaster so far and isn't what they needed at all.
 
UNITED ACADEMY said:
I never say you say he needs to be sacked tomorrow. I was talking about how based on 5-6 games can make fans (like you for example) forget all the positive things you said about him last month. I can understand if you start doubting him after 3-6 months but 5-6 games of one bad aspect should not undermine tons of good works you mentioned (post below), unless if what you said were just big fat lie.
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Again complete strawman. I haven't forgotten the positive things I said, they just have to be weighted against very obviously negative things that are totally unforced. Why are you assuming that because I posted something critical that means what I said previously isn't valid? Both things can obviously be true, unless you're some sort of zealot for whom consistency of position outweighs everything.
 
TheReligion said:
Yes you told us all you were signing Sancho as he supported Chelsea and had a tattoo of Dennis Wise on his ball sack.
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I believe you yourself also told us Sancho was nailed on to Utd in the summer, Dortmund were bluffing - and we werent signing all the positions required? And FYI, he is a Chelsea fan, that was simply a fact. (Sancho will go to lpool btw next summer)

Aside from that, come on ffs, where else do you really see Declan Rice going? I'm sure even the most biased of fans, West Ham or anyone else, would agree its a case of when not if for Rice to Chelsea.
 
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ZolaWasMagic said:
I believe you yourself also told us Sancho was nailed on to Utd in the summer, Dortmund were bluffing - and we werent signing all the positions required? And FYI, he is a Chelsea fan, that was simply a fact

Aside from that, come on ffs, where else do you really see Declan Rice going? I'm sure even the most biased of fans, West Ham or anyone else, would agree its a case of when not if for Rice to Chelsea
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If United want Rice they'll get him.

Bigger club than Chelsea.
 
TheReligion said:
If United want Rice they'll get him.

Bigger club than Chelsea.
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Rice is a former Chelsea youth player + will cost a lot of money. United need to prioritize in other positions so it's hard to see Chelsea not getting Rice.
 
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