Chelsea 2020/21 - General discussion

I think it’d be a mistake to drop Giroud to be honest.

If it was up to me and I was picking this Chelsea side, I’d probably drop the #10 and play Werner with Giroud.
 
TheMagicFoolBus said:
Seems Chelsea are treating him like a backup option should we miss our other targets.

The Onana links are the most concrete out of any keeper we've been linked to, the Oblak interest is real as well but obviously far from realistic.
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I'm guessing Kepa won't be easy to sell for a while?
 
WeePat said:
Not much of a leapfrog though, is it mate?
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Doesn’t really address my point though does it. Just signing 5/6 new players doesn’t guarantee anything and Utd will get better next season no doubt in my mind.
 
Ødegaard said:
I'm guessing Kepa won't be easy to sell for a while?
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Most likely outcome looks like a multi-year loan with some sort of vesting obligation to buy should he hit appearance benchmarks or something like that.

There were rumblings for a while of a triple swap where Kepa would go to Valencia on a loan, Cillessen would go back to Ajax, and Onana would go to Chelsea. That talk seems to have cooled a bit of late, however.
 
TrustInJanuzaj said:
Doesn’t really address my point though does it. Just signing 5/6 new players doesn’t guarantee anything and Utd will get better next season no doubt in my mind.
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I know you believe that mate, but with respect, we're two very similar teams at similar stages in transition. Chelsea finishing above United next season isn't the big achievement you think it is.
 
Everyone is raving about Chelsea signings but I'm not sure Werner and Ziyech are as good as people are saying.

I don't know them very well but I've just seen Werner goals in Bundesliga and I don't think he will score a lot like that in the Prem. A lot of them were mistakes by a high and weak defensive line. He seems fast and powerfull but not a fox in the box or a holding focal point in attack so I think he is better suited to counter attacks or playing off a central striker.

Ziyech seems superb technically to be honest but also weak. He will get bullied in the Prem I think. He is already 27 and seems to me doing a lot of fancy stuff but I'm not sure he will be very effective. His numbers are not that impressive playing for Ajax in a second tier league.

Maybe they will come very good but I don't think it is as certain as people are saying. With new signings you never know anyway.

What do you think guys ?
 
Ziyech isn’t a player that I’d be overly confident in.
 
I'm more confident in Ziyech than i am in Werner.

My fear is that Werner more suited to a "park the bus and hit them on the break" style. I hope I'm wrong of course.
 
duffer said:
I'm more confident in Ziyech than i am in Werner.

My fear is that Werner more suited to a "park the bus and hit them on the break" style. I hope I'm wrong of course.
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That what I thought too. But I won't be confident about Ziyech either. You have to ask why he is still at Ajax at his age. He seems flashy but I'm not sure he will be consistent.

The thing is everyone seems so exited about them two but they don't seem in the top top tier footballers to me.
 
Redfrog said:
That what I thought too. But I won't be confident about Ziyech either. You have to ask why he is still at Ajax at his age. He seems flashy but I'm not sure he will be consistent.

The thing is everyone seems so exited about them two but they don't seem in the top top tier footballers to me.
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Ziyech has been excellent in the champions League as well as domestically.

Not sure what you mean by "top, top tier". Messi? Of course not. De Bruyne? Nobody is expecting that.

If he's a decent improvement on what we have, it's a good signing. He cost less than Nathan Ake will, he does not need to set the league on fire to be a successful signing.
 
duffer said:
Ziyech has been excellent in the champions League as well as domestically.

Not sure what you mean by "top, top tier". Messi? Of course not. De Bruyne? Nobody is expecting that.

If he's a decent improvement on what we have, it's a good signing. He cost less than Nathan Ake will, he does not need to set the league on fire to be a successful signing.
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You are probably right when you put his price in consideration. But I'm not sure he will be an improvement on Willian.

I just think he is not as good as Rashford, Martial, Sancho or potentially Greenwood when you put his age and end product in consideration. (I am maybe a bit biased)

Giroud was vital for you after the break and I'm not sure from where the goals will come from next season. You always seems to do well anyway, probably your players will share the burden. But I'm not sure if you have someone capable to scoring 20+ goals a season. Abraham seemed to be that guy at the start of the season but he has fallen off the cliff.
 
Redfrog said:
I just think he is not as good as Rashford, Martial, Sancho or potentially Greenwood when you put his age and end product in consideration. (I am maybe a bit biased)
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He's not replacing Rashford, Martial, Sancho or Greenwood so what difference does that make?

He'll be judged by how he compares to William, Pedro, Barkley and other Chelsea players in similar roles.
 
duffer said:
He's not replacing Rashford, Martial, Sancho or Greenwood so what difference does that make?

He'll be judged by how he compares to William, Pedro, Barkley and other Chelsea players in similar roles.
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No, but we finished with the same number of points this year and we will be the closest competitors for third and fourth next year me think.

And both teams are such unknown quality for different reasons.

I wonder who will finish one ahead of another and I think your signings could go either way. It is really hard to judge for me.
 
Redfrog said:
No, but we finished with the same number of points this year and we will be the closest competitors for third and fourth next year me think.

And both teams are such unknown quality for different reasons.

I wonder who will finish one ahead of another and I think your signings could go either way. It is really hard to judge for me.
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I think Werner and Ziyech will be upgrades on Willian and Pedro.

You might not think so and that's fine, time will tell!
 
duffer said:
I think Werner and Ziyech will be upgrades on Willian and Pedro.

You might not think so and that's fine, time will tell!
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On Pedro sure ! Willian was always usefull to you I think. But I don't watch Chelsea as much as you so what do I know.
As you say time will tell !
 
Redfrog said:
On Pedro sure ! Willian was always usefull to you I think. But I don't watch Chelsea as much as you so what do I know.
As you say time will tell !
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Willian ia definitely useful, but that's hardly setting a high bar. If you watched Chelsea more, there's no chance you'd think Willian is anything more than an inconsistent winger who does something useful once in a while.
 
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How lenient will Roman be with Lampard? Will he be his normal trigger happy self and sack at a whim. Or is he in it for the long haul, and give Lampard a few more seasons to get it right?

what are the realistic and non negotiable objectives for Lampard to keep his job?
 
Redfrog said:
Everyone is raving about Chelsea signings but I'm not sure Werner and Ziyech are as good as people are saying.

I don't know them very well but I've just seen Werner goals in Bundesliga and I don't think he will score a lot like that in the Prem. A lot of them were mistakes by a high and weak defensive line. He seems fast and powerfull but not a fox in the box or a holding focal point in attack so I think he is better suited to counter attacks or playing off a central striker.

Ziyech seems superb technically to be honest but also weak. He will get bullied in the Prem I think. He is already 27 and seems to me doing a lot of fancy stuff but I'm not sure he will be very effective. His numbers are not that impressive playing for Ajax in a second tier league.

Maybe they will come very good but I don't think it is as certain as people are saying. With new signings you never know anyway.

What do you think guys ?
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Nothing is certain of course, it's entirely possible Ziyech will struggle, but, does he seem weaker to you than David Silva? Juan Mata? Ozil? Mahrez? He might be slightly slimmer than someone like Ozil, but the days when frail looking foreign guys being bullied out of the league are long gone. Bruno Fernandes is hardly built like Essien himself :)
 
sammsky1 said:
How lenient will Roman be with Lampard? Will he be his normal trigger happy self and sack at a whim. Or is he in it for the long haul, and give Lampard a few more seasons to get it right?

what are the realistic and non negotiable objectives for Lampard to keep his job?
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I'd like to think the club has turned over a new leaf, with a long-term view, and Lampard will be given more time than usual, but my gut feeling is he's on the clock now, and he has about 2 seasons to deliver a genuine title challenge.
 
duffer said:
Comfortable top 4 next season, title challenge the year after.
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Basically same as ole.

So if either is successful, they will likely be directly responsible for the other getting the sack!

this could become quite a feisty rivalry
 
As it stands a starting eleven of:

Pulisic - Werner - Ziyech
Mount
Kovacic Kante
Alonso Zouma Rudiger James
Kepa

With Giroud, Abraham, Jorginho, Azpilicueta, Christensen, Emerson, Gimour, RLC, CHO, Barkley as squad players

Now i feel we have to add Havertz and at least 2 defensive improvements (combination of keeper/CB or Keeper LB etc) to really close the gap. The only way we get all three of those is if we sell the deadwood.

One thing is for sure, this will be Lampards first real test after the free pass this season.
 
I look at Vardy and I have no doubt that Werner will be successful in the PL. Might take a few months to fully adapt but will no doubt score a lot of goals. He's way better technically than Vardy, better passer, faster and on par with movement in the box. You'd say Vardy is more clinical but Werner takes more shots at diverse angles than Vardy.
 
Mount's Goatieson said:
I look at Vardy and I have no doubt that Werner will be successful in the PL. Might take a few months to fully adapt but will no doubt score a lot of goals. He's way better technically than Vardy, better passer, faster and on par with movement in the box. You'd say Vardy is more clinical but Werner takes more shots at diverse angles than Vardy.
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Vardy is one of the best finisher in the league, Werner is not, his finishing is not as good. So not every quick player will be as good as Vardy, otherwise Morata would have been playing for Chelsea as a 9.

Also not sure if Werner is quicker than Vardy.
 
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[QUO="roonster09, post: 25858748, member: 43337"]
Vardy is one of the best finisher in the league, Werner is not, his finishing is not as good. So not every quick player will be as good as Vardy, otherwise Morata would have been playing for Chelsea as a 9.

Also not sure if Werner is quicker than Vardy.
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roonster09 said:
Vardy is one of the best finisher in the league, Werner is not, his finishing is not as good. So not every quick player will be as good as Vardy, otherwise Morata would have been playing for Chelsea as a 9.

Also not sure if Werner is quicker than Vardy.
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I did say Vardy is more clinical. Also he's been successful in the PL with basically pace and finishing, everybody knows those are his strengths yet he is still successful in scoring. Werner has a lot more in his locker than that and if we maintain our chance creation or slightly improve it next season he will get his chances to score.
Also Morata is no longer our no 9 because he was mentally weak and let a poor performance affect his game more than it should. He cared more about what the media would say after a missed chance than looking up burying the next one that will come.
Morata is also not as fast or clinical as Vardy and Werner.
 
Mount's Goatieson said:
I did say Vardy is more clinical. Also he's been successful in the PL with basically pace and finishing, everybody knows those are his strengths yet he is still successful in scoring. Werner has a lot more in his locker than that and if we maintain our chance creation or slightly improve it next season he will get his chances to score.
Also Morata is no longer our no 9 because he was mentally weak and let a poor performance affect his game more than it should. He cared more about what the media would say after a missed chance than looking up burying the next one that will come.
Morata is also not as fast or clinical as Vardy and Werner.
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Yeah, what I meant is, you came up with very simplistic logic. Like you said about Morata, Vardy is exact opposite, one of the strongest when it comes to mentality. Werner had few issues, not sure how he is now, like crowd noise was too much some sort of that.
 
WeePat said:
I know you believe that mate, but with respect, we're two very similar teams at similar stages in transition. Chelsea finishing above United next season isn't the big achievement you think it is.
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We will see...
 
Noodle said:
As it stands a starting eleven of:

Pulisic - Werner - Ziyech
Mount
Kovacic Kante
Alonso Zouma Rudiger James
Kepa

With Giroud, Abraham, Jorginho, Azpilicueta, Christensen, Emerson, Gimour, RLC, CHO, Barkley as squad players

Now i feel we have to add Havertz and at least 2 defensive improvements (combination of keeper/CB or Keeper LB etc) to really close the gap. The only way we get all three of those is if we sell the deadwood.

One thing is for sure, this will be Lampards first real test after the free pass this season.
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carfailures-com-3df1ce.jpg

:lol::lol::lol:
 
Noodle said:
As it stands a starting eleven of:

Pulisic - Werner - Ziyech
Mount
Kovacic Kante
Alonso Zouma Rudiger James
Kepa

With Giroud, Abraham, Jorginho, Azpilicueta, Christensen, Emerson, Gimour, RLC, CHO, Barkley as squad players

Now i feel we have to add Havertz and at least 2 defensive improvements (combination of keeper/CB or Keeper LB etc) to really close the gap. The only way we get all three of those is if we sell the deadwood.

One thing is for sure, this will be Lampards first real test after the free pass this season.
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Agree on the defensive reinforcements. Suspect Havertz coming in sadly means less minutes for Mount. Kovacic a better player IMHO but lacks the goals admittedly, and Kante we should keep.

Pulisic - Werner - Ziyech
Havertz

Kante Kovacic

Chilwell Zouma (new cb) Azpi

Onana

Is my honest prediction of next years side
 
ZolaWasMagic said:
Agree on the defensive reinforcements. Suspect Havertz coming in sadly means less minutes for Mount. Kovacic a better player IMHO but lacks the goals admittedly, and Kante we should keep.

Pulisic - Werner - Ziyech
Havertz

Kante Kovacic

Chilwell Zouma (new cb) Azpi

Onana

Is my honest prediction of next years side
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You think you will get half a whole new lineup within a single summer? Has that happened, ever, at a top-4 club?
 
ZolaWasMagic said:
Agree on the defensive reinforcements. Suspect Havertz coming in sadly means less minutes for Mount. Kovacic a better player IMHO but lacks the goals admittedly, and Kante we should keep.

Pulisic - Werner - Ziyech
Havertz

Kante Kovacic

Chilwell Zouma (new cb) Azpi

Onana

Is my honest prediction of next years side
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How on earth are you going to afford Chilwell who most likely will cost a fee way north of 60 million pounds as he's english. A new CB of good quality which likely will cost above 30 and Onana on top of what you've already bought?

Transfer outlay will be way above 200 million pounds mid pandemic? Sounds like high hopes to me. I think Havertz and one of those positions would be a fantastic summer for Chelsea and seems like a more realistic target.
 
SwedishFish said:
How on earth are you going to afford Chilwell who most likely will cost a fee way north of 60 million pounds as he's english. A new CB of good quality which likely will cost above 30 and Onana on top of what you've already bought?

Transfer outlay will be way above 200 million pounds mid pandemic? Sounds like high hopes to me. I think Havertz and one of those positions would be a fantastic summer for Chelsea and seems like a more realistic target.
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Fortunately it seems like we're going for Reguilon instead - better player at 1/3 the cost.
 
TheMagicFoolBus said:
Fortunately it seems like we're going for Reguilon instead - better player at 1/3 the cost.
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I'd be happy with a punt on Reguilon at £20m ish, Emerson will be sold for that anyway so it's a straight swap. Leaves more for a CB and GK which are the priority
 
SwedishFish said:
How on earth are you going to afford Chilwell who most likely will cost a fee way north of 60 million pounds as he's english. A new CB of good quality which likely will cost above 30 and Onana on top of what you've already bought?

Transfer outlay will be way above 200 million pounds mid pandemic? Sounds like high hopes to me. I think Havertz and one of those positions would be a fantastic summer for Chelsea and seems like a more realistic target.
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Not high hopes, I seriously think if/when Havertz joins, the window will end with a LB, CB and GK on top. GK only if Kepa goes on loan or something, admittedly. Of course thats not to say they wont be cheaper alternatives to who we see in the press linked, but i think the positions will be added to. We also have Abramovich who by all accounts is willing to put money in if needed.

I can also envisage a fair amount leaving on loan or perm, too. Morata, Pasalic have gone for roughly 60m-65m, and i think we earnt another 12 waiving our right to Boga's buyback from Sassuolo. Willian and Pedro aswell now.
 
Jesper Weber Mortensen said:
You think you will get half a whole new lineup within a single summer? Has that happened, ever, at a top-4 club?
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well think about it, it looks like 3 of those incoming are nearly done already, and its only now the end of the season for us. (Werner, Ziyech, Havertz maybe). Whether its a top 4 club or bottom 4 is irrelevant, signing 5-6 players in one summer window is not unheard of.

It's not crazy to think that given who may leave and what not, that by end of September a LB, CB could be signed. Gk will depend on Kepa. This is not a typical summer for Chelsea compared to recent years in the sense that due to the ban and having an apparent sizeable budget sat there, it's very opportunistic. It's why it looks like we have a clear run at Havertz. We can pay it should we wish, other clubs dont want to right now. It's also why we had no issue going in and just triggering Werner's release clause. We are in a fortunate position in some sense
 
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