Centre Forward

ben_foster

On Loan to Watford
Joined
Jun 5, 2006
Messages
1,254
I am really supised that there is not more concern about our seemingley lack of interest in a centre forward.

The midfield has long been an issue with the majority wanting us to sign a silva/nasri/sneijder type midfielder. with kagawa taking that spot we now have carrick, carrick, giggs, scholes, anderson, cleverley, kagawa, park and fletcher ???? playing for 2/3 places. Therefore surley there simply isnt room for another midfielder unless anderson, park, are gonners and fletcher doesnt return.

Left back is a concern should evera be injured suspended but the last 3 years have shown that if evra is available then he plays. So surley fryers/evens/da silva/giggs can cover the odd game he doesnt play. We wont get a better left back than those who would be willing to sit on the bench and with fabio ear marked for that position somebody like baines would be foolish to sign for us, unless he really rbelieves he can take evra's position.

So onto the centre forward. Owen is gone. Berbs will go. Will keane isnt going to push for a place due to injury and macheda looks like he wont fulfill his potential and so we are left with rooney, welbeck and hernandez. Which would be pretty good if we had ronaldo banging in 40 goals from out wide but we dont.

if i was looking at those three as potential oposition id be more than happy our backfore would handle them. I dont thik any topside would fear them, nor even an average side. Thats probs why far more teams come and have a go at us these days.

Anyway.....bit of a long post to say that i really think we need a centre forward. not sure who but if rooney gets injured (quite likeley) or has a quiet spell (again quite likeley) then we definatley need another world class forward. i also dont agree that bringging another forward in would be a bad thing for welbeck. sure it would initially reduce game time but i would also mean he has to raise his game. he's first choice at the minute. I cant think of another united team the last 20 years where welbeck would be close to the side never mind first choice
 
Nice of you to worry, Ben - I always thought you were talented but a bit of a wimp. How's things in Birmingham? Still struggling with adapting a wining mentality?
 
a) Park is rumoured to be leaving
b) Giggs & Scholes are rapidly nearing the end of their playing days
c) Anderson still hasn't stepped up consistently, he may never
d) Fletcher can;t be relied upon until his illness is properly treated and he's proven he can still play regularly and as well as ever.

That leaves Cleverley (young and injury hit last year), Carrick and Kagawa. In comparison, we have Hernandez, Welbeck and Rooney (plus Keane, King, and Macheda) up front.
 
ben_foster said:
I am really supised that there is not more concern about our seemingley lack of interest in a centre forward.

The midfield has long been an issue with the majority wanting us to sign a silva/nasri/sneijder type midfielder. with kagawa taking that spot we now have carrick, carrick, giggs, scholes, anderson, cleverley, kagawa, park and fletcher ???? playing for 2/3 places. Therefore surley there simply isnt room for another midfielder unless anderson, park, are gonners and fletcher doesnt return.

Left back is a concern should evera be injured suspended but the last 3 years have shown that if evra is available then he plays. So surley fryers/evens/da silva/giggs can cover the odd game he doesnt play. We wont get a better left back than those who would be willing to sit on the bench and with fabio ear marked for that position somebody like baines would be foolish to sign for us, unless he really rbelieves he can take evra's position.

So onto the centre forward. Owen is gone. Berbs will go. Will keane isnt going to push for a place due to injury and macheda looks like he wont fulfill his potential and so we are left with rooney, welbeck and hernandez. Which would be pretty good if we had ronaldo banging in 40 goals from out wide but we dont.

if i was looking at those three as potential oposition id be more than happy our backfore would handle them. I dont thik any topside would fear them, nor even an average side. Thats probs why far more teams come and have a go at us these days.

Anyway.....bit of a long post to say that i really think we need a centre forward. not sure who but if rooney gets injured (quite likeley) or has a quiet spell (again quite likeley) then we definatley need another world class forward. i also dont agree that bringging another forward in would be a bad thing for welbeck. sure it would initially reduce game time but i would also mean he has to raise his game. he's first choice at the minute. I cant think of another united team the last 20 years where welbeck would be close to the side never mind first choice
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Why would we need another forward? With Kagawa coming in we'll most likely just use one man up front - Rooney, Welbeck and Hernandez should be sufficient.
 
Nah definitely don't think we need one. Why take games away from Welbeck and Hernandez when they could genuinely both become world class?

Hernandez was disapointing last season but if he can just improve the technical side of his game, which will naturally come with training and practise, he has the instinctive attributes to be a brilliant striker.

Plus we have signed Kagawa which gives the option to play three in midfield and push Rooney forward. So if there is an injury crisis or our strikers are misfiring then we have options.

Would be a needless purchase IMO.
 
I expect that we will sign a striker. However Rooney and Welbeck should be our starting forwards next season, so its tricky to know which type/calibre of player we can bring in.

Hernandez can cover for Welbeck, and we have a host of players that can replace Rooney in the hole should the need arise, so the need is not as desperate as it seems
 
SecondFig said:
a) Park is rumoured to be leaving
b) Giggs & Scholes are rapidly nearing the end of their playing days
c) Anderson still hasn't stepped up consistently, he may never
d) Fletcher can;t be relied upon until his illness is properly treated and he's proven he can still play regularly and as well as ever.

That leaves Cleverley (young and injury hit last year), Carrick and Kagawa. In comparison, we have Hernandez, Welbeck and Rooney (plus Keane, King, and Macheda) up front.
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macheda has looked out of his depth every times ive seen him in the last two years. keane wont play before christmas. havent seen enough of him but if your including him as back up then we have petrucci, lingaard, cole and tunnicliffe.

i agree with all of your points above but

a). welbeck hasnt proven he can relied upon.
b). hernandez hasnt proved he can be relied upon.
c). rooney prefers to play off the front, is known to go missing for half a dozen games and could quite easily be out suspended/injured.

in the last 5 years:-

out has gone, ronaldo, tevez, saha, berbatov, owen

in has come hernandez

welbeck has come through

rooney has remained.

so we once had rooney, tevez, ronaldo, berbatov with welbeck / macheda coming through.

as it stands......loosing carrick would be a total knightmare but with scholes and giggsy playing on this year along with anderson/cleverley (who started brightly together) and kagawa then we could get by for a couple of week. if we lost rooney for any period of time i dont think any central defensive partnership on the counrty would fear us.

i cant remember having saying that about united.
 
I can't see us buying a striker. Even if Berba and Owen go, they hardly played anyway so they won't be missed that much really. We also still have Diouf, Bebe and Macheda available, unless we have already given up on them.

Not that i rate any of them in particular, but they haven't been sold yet as far as i know, so they must still be in the picture.

What's happened to Josh King by the way anyone?
 
Bilbo said:
I expect that we will sign a striker. However Rooney and Welbeck should be our starting forwards next season, so its tricky to know which type/calibre of player we can bring in.

Hernandez can cover for Welbeck, and we have a host of players that can replace Rooney in the hole should the need arise, so the need is not as desperate as it seems
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maybe fantasy football a little but if i had my choice then id go for llorente. i would sooner we spend £30m on him than modric or whoever (i actually really rate modric) as i think our front 3 is very week for a club of our stature.

in response to that in bold......giggsy, young, kagawa can all play in the hole agreed. however if they are required to do so, without rooney for any period of time then i dont think too many teams will be thinking "oh shit, its united on saturday, they have giggs and hernandez up front" (more importantly his goals)
 
Bilbo said:
I expect that we will sign a striker. However Rooney and Welbeck should be our starting forwards next season, so its tricky to know which type/calibre of player we can bring in.

Hernandez can cover for Welbeck, and we have a host of players that can replace Rooney in the hole should the need arise, so the need is not as desperate as it seems
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I doubt we will, as we may be moving to a one striker setup where Welbeck and Hernandez will cover for Rooney, with Kiko or Keane as cover for them.
 
When Will Keane did his ACL Fergie had this to say about him.
'I'm very, very disappointed for the lad. He was in the first team squad for next season.'
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That would give us four strikers, plus Young and Kagawa able to play in the hole.

More than enough options.

I guess if Will's surgeon gives a very grim prognosis we might look at getting someone in. Doubt it though.
 
apotheosis said:
I can't see us buying a striker. Even if Berba and Owen go, they hardly played anyway so they won't be missed that much really. We also still have Diouf, Bebe and Macheda available, unless we have already given up on them.

Not that i rate any of them in particular, but they haven't been sold yet as far as i know, so they must still be in the picture.

What's happened to Josh King by the way anyone?
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Diouf plays in Germany now.
 
Macheda will never make it at this club. He needs to move on to help his career

It would be nice to see a new forward added.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
When Will Keane did his ACL Fergie had this to say about him.


That would give us four strikers, plus Young and Kagawa able to play in the hole.

More than enough options.

I guess if Will's surgeon gives a very grim prognosis we might look at getting someone in. Doubt it though.
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Shame that, but what has happened to Josh King? I seem to recall you spend a bit of time watching the reserves Pogue. Do you know how he is progressing? I had expected to hear a bit more about him by this point.
 
ben_foster said:
if i was looking at those three as potential oposition id be more than happy our backfore would handle them. I dont thik any topside would fear them, nor even an average side. Thats probs why far more teams come and have a go at us
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So more teams 'come and have a go at us' because sides, even average sides, do not fear Rooney, Welbeck and Hernandez as a strikeforce?

Basically, that statement was the complete opposite of sense.
 
That multitude of central midfielders you mentioned (plus at least one more hopefully) means that we're quite capable of playing a 4-3-3, indeed we'll probably have to to keep all of them happy, that requires only one out and out striker. Unless Rooney, Hernandez and Welbeck all go down with injures/suspension then we should be fine.
 
apotheosis said:
Shame that, but what has happened to Josh King? I seem to recall you spend a bit of time watching the reserves Pogue. Do you know how he is progressing? I had expected to hear a bit more about him by this point.
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He's been on loan and come back. I have my doubts about him, others seem to rate him quite highly.

He's had rotten luck with injuries, though. If he can get a decent run of games under his belt he might kick on and make a contribution next season.
 
Hernandez, Rooney, Welbeck will likely rotate a lone front man role. Kagawa can play up top too from what I understand, we don't need to splash out on anyone. I think the 4th spot was up for grabs between Macheda, Keane and maybe King. As Diouf has shown strikers need confidence. Saha's on a free isn't he? Ohh and Del Piero is! We need someone to come in a play a role of sorts. Wouldn't mind Del Piero's experience and class. What I'm trying to say is, we have good strikers, we need to fix midfield.

I reckon Nani could play up front pretty well too, I think he did against Villa this year (Away), well it was a more central role. He's comfortable on either foot, quick, strong and his movements good.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
He's been on loan and come back. I have my doubts about him, others seem to rate him quite highly.

He's had rotten luck with injuries, though. If he can get a decent run of games under his belt he might kick on and make a contribution next season.
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Very raw talent, more physically gifted than anything else but I remember him scoring an absolute peach against Burnley once for the reserves or U-18's. Deserves time, strikers need confidence as Diouf has shown. Would also help if SAF didn't play them on the wing :D.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
He's been on loan and come back. I have my doubts about him, others seem to rate him quite highly.

He's had rotten luck with injuries, though. If he can get a decent run of games under his belt he might kick on and make a contribution next season.
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Same fecking story with our young kids...
 
ben_foster said:
maybe fantasy football a little but if i had my choice then id go for llorente. i would sooner we spend £30m on him than modric or whoever (i actually really rate modric) as i think our front 3 is very week for a club of our stature.

in response to that in bold......giggsy, young, kagawa can all play in the hole agreed. however if they are required to do so, without rooney for any period of time then i dont think too many teams will be thinking "oh shit, its united on saturday, they have giggs and hernandez up front" (more importantly his goals)
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Nonsense in my opinion. We're desperate for a player in the middle who can keep possession and get us going forward - Scholes came back and did it last year and improves us massively. It may not be Modric but we need a player of his ilk.

As for Llorente - I don't see teh point. It can be an advantage to have a forward who can hold it up, but a player costing what he would cost would rightly expect to be first choice. the signing of Kagawa means we're looking at a return to 4-2-3-1, so where does that leave Wayne Rooney?

In any event I'm not sure how Llorente woudl fair over here - watched him for Bilbao a lot - he's strong, big, and awkward but I'm not sure he'd be all he's cracked up to be in a more physical league. I like forwards to have a bit of pace - especially the way United play, breaking quickly.
 
RedRover said:
Nonsense in my opinion. We're desperate for a player in the middle who can keep possession and get us going forward - Scholes came back and did it last year and improves us massively. It may not be Modric but we need a player of his ilk.

As for Llorente - I don't see teh point. It can be an advantage to have a forward who can hold it up, but a player costing what he would cost would rightly expect to be first choice. the signing of Kagawa means we're looking at a return to 4-2-3-1, so where does that leave Wayne Rooney?

In any event I'm not sure how Llorente woudl fair over here - watched him for Bilbao a lot - he's strong, big, and awkward but I'm not sure he'd be all he's cracked up to be in a more physical league. I like forwards to have a bit of pace - especially the way United play, breaking quickly.
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Could not agree more.
 
Actually scrap Del Piero or Saha. What about Droggggbaaaaaah?
 
I'd take another defensive midfielder with bite over a striker. Let's face facts: As of now, Fletcher isn't coming back. We'll delay the inevitable all season with false hopes, but even hearing Fergie talking about him, you get the sense it's only a matter of time.

To compete in Europe we need a defensive destroyer. Who that'll be? Who knows.

If we get a striker, it'll be in the Dempsey mold. Older, not expensive, multi-positional, and reliable.
 
ben_foster said:
macheda has looked out of his depth every times ive seen him in the last two years. keane wont play before christmas. havent seen enough of him but if your including him as back up then we have petrucci, lingaard, cole and tunnicliffe.

i agree with all of your points above but

a). welbeck hasnt proven he can relied upon.
b). hernandez hasnt proved he can be relied upon.
c). rooney prefers to play off the front, is known to go missing for half a dozen games and could quite easily be out suspended/injured.

in the last 5 years:-

out has gone, ronaldo, tevez, saha, berbatov, owen

in has come hernandez

welbeck has come through

rooney has remained.

so we once had rooney, tevez, ronaldo, berbatov with welbeck / macheda coming through.

as it stands......loosing carrick would be a total knightmare but with scholes and giggsy playing on this year along with anderson/cleverley (who started brightly together) and kagawa then we could get by for a couple of week. if we lost rooney for any period of time i dont think any central defensive partnership on the counrty would fear us.

i cant remember having saying that about united.
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:wenger: In what world is that statement true? The kid hasnt had a break in 3 FCKIN YEARS, and one below par season and he cant be relied on? You just lost your entire argument with that stupid comment NOT to mention the fact that Wellbeck improves himself with every game he plays.

Also dont forget about Macheda I dont think Fergie will get shot of him yet.
 
Early contender for the "Worst constructed paragraph of the year" award.


ben_foster said:
as it stands......loosing carrick would be a total knightmare but with scholes and giggsy playing on this year along with anderson/cleverley (who started brightly together) and kagawa then we could get by for a couple of week. if we lost rooney for any period of time i dont think any central defensive partnership on the counrty would fear us.
Click to expand...
 
Is English your eighth language?

ben_foster said:
macheda has looked out of his depth every times ive seen him in the last two years. keane wont play before christmas. havent seen enough of him but if your including him as back up then we have petrucci, lingaard, cole and tunnicliffe.

i agree with all of your points above but

a). welbeck hasnt proven he can relied upon.
b). hernandez hasnt proved he can be relied upon.
c). rooney prefers to play off the front, is known to go missing for half a dozen games and could quite easily be out suspended/injured.

in the last 5 years:-

out has gone, ronaldo, tevez, saha, berbatov, owen

in has come hernandez

welbeck has come through

rooney has remained.

so we once had rooney, tevez, ronaldo, berbatov with welbeck / macheda coming through.

as it stands......loosing carrick would be a total knightmare but with scholes and giggsy playing on this year along with anderson/cleverley (who started brightly together) and kagawa then we could get by for a couple of week. if we lost rooney for any period of time i dont think any central defensive partnership on the counrty would fear us.

i cant remember having saying that about united.
Click to expand...
 
I see us playing 4 4 2 in easier premier league games and 1 up front in Big matches and tricky away games. Therefore 3 forwards is enough.
Another forward would be welcome but certainly not a priority.
 
Hectic said:
So more teams 'come and have a go at us' because sides, even average sides, do not fear Rooney, Welbeck and Hernandez as a strikeforce?

Basically, that statement was the complete opposite of sense.
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i disagree. hernandez allowes teams to press very high up the field as he is awful at timing his runs and quite often caught about 20 yards offside. welbeck got how many goals last year??? no arguements about rooney's qaulity.

if you where a back 4 you would fear rooney, tevez, ronaldo, berbatov.

like wise ruud, saha, rooney ronaldo

like wise cole, yorke, sherhinham and solksjear.

rooney, welbeck and hernandez is far poorer than any of those combinations. gone are the days when rossi couldnt get a kick
 
RedRover said:
Nonsense in my opinion. We're desperate for a player in the middle who can keep possession and get us going forward - Scholes came back and did it last year and improves us massively. It may not be Modric but we need a player of his ilk.

As for Llorente - I don't see teh point. It can be an advantage to have a forward who can hold it up, but a player costing what he would cost would rightly expect to be first choice. the signing of Kagawa means we're looking at a return to 4-2-3-1, so where does that leave Wayne Rooney?

In any event I'm not sure how Llorente woudl fair over here - watched him for Bilbao a lot - he's strong, big, and awkward but I'm not sure he'd be all he's cracked up to be in a more physical league. I like forwards to have a bit of pace - especially the way United play, breaking quickly.
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you mean like bilboa do?? united broke quickly with ruud in the side. in fact we broke a hell of a lot quicker than we do now.
 
Dennis Wise did have a great understanding with Ruud, in fairness.
 
MalteseRedDevil said:
I see us playing 4 4 2 in easier premier league games and 1 up front in Big matches and tricky away games. Therefore 3 forwards is enough.
Another forward would be welcome but certainly not a priority.
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so your appy with 3 players for two positions???? so you would be happy to go through a season with 3 centre backs?
 
Give them another years experience and teams will unquestionably fear them.

They have huge potential, and putting the development of it at risk just to get a marginally better striker, who isn't needed if we play one up top, who will cost around £30million, when other areas need strengthened more... Makes no sense.
 
ben_foster said:
macheda has looked out of his depth every times ive seen him in the last two years. keane wont play before christmas. havent seen enough of him but if your including him as back up then we have petrucci, lingaard, cole and tunnicliffe.

i agree with all of your points above but

a). welbeck hasnt proven he can relied upon.
b). hernandez hasnt proved he can be relied upon.
c). rooney prefers to play off the front, is known to go missing for half a dozen games and could quite easily be out suspended/injured.

in the last 5 years:-

out has gone, ronaldo, tevez, saha, berbatov, owen

in has come hernandez

welbeck has come through

rooney has remained.

so we once had rooney, tevez, ronaldo, berbatov with welbeck / macheda coming through.

as it stands......loosing carrick would be a total knightmare but with scholes and giggsy playing on this year along with anderson/cleverley (who started brightly together) and kagawa then we could get by for a couple of week. if we lost rooney for any period of time i dont think any central defensive partnership on the counrty would fear us.

i cant remember having saying that about united.
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:lol:
 
Theon said:
Give them another years experience and teams will unquestionably fear them.

They have huge potential, and putting the development of it at risk just to get a marginally better striker, who isn't needed if we play one up top, who will cost around £30million, when other areas need strengthened more... Makes no sense.
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that very same sentence could be applied to a midfield partnership of cleverley and anderson. why waste £30m on modric??

is it not exactly the same theory?? the difference being we have greater numbers in midfield.

we have 3 recognised forwards. i simply dont think that its enough.
 
ben_foster said:
so your appy with 3 players for two positions???? so you would be happy to go through a season with 3 centre backs?
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It's infeasible to play with 1 centre back against any opponent, it's quite feasible to play with 1 forward, even if in some matches it might not be ideal, especially with players like Young available.
 
ben_foster said:
that very same sentence could be applied to a midfield partnership of cleverley and anderson. why waste £30m on modric??

is it not exactly the same theory?? the difference being we have greater numbers in midfield.

we have 3 recognised forwards. i simply dont think that its enough.
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It is enough if we play a one striker formation. Three very good strikers and a youngster. Otherwise our kids are never going to see the light of day.
 
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