Centre Back... Who do we go for?

Any chance of us being able to sign Jose Jimenez from Atletico Madrid . I read he has a 120 million euros release clause . I have seen a few of his performances and he is very impressive and playing with Godin which only has improved him . He is 24 and will only be getting better and entering his prime .
 
roonster09 said:
Exactly.
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I really don't get this obsession with these experienced top defenders from big clubs. When did that ever worked for us? Stam was a 25 something defender from PSV. He never played 1 game outside Holland before signing for us. Rio came from Leeds at age 24. Just few years before SAF himself criticised his record fee at Leeds which speaks volumes of how rated he was. Same with Vidic, a young defender who was playing in Russia and was close to be signed by mighty Fiorentina prior of us signing him.

Bonucci at Milan, Vidic at Inter and Blanc at United are clear examples that you simply can't plug and play a leader at the back. It doesn't work like that. Defending is not a one man team. The trick to succeed here is to have the right people with the right skills & attitude while hoping that they won't pick injuries that would ruining the consistency they need to settle down. Its not unusual to have defenders who start slow and then end up growing in the job. We had two in Lindelof and Vidic.

If we break the bank on Koulibaly then all the pressure will be on him to succeed. One mistake and we'll be doing a Pogba who get criticised time and time again for not scoring hat-tricks every game.
 
devilish said:
He's not levels above Skriniar far from it.
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Skriniar is too slow, pairing him up with Lindelof would be suicide. Koulibaly is good on the ball and absolutely wastes Skriniar for recovery pace and physicality in general.
 
fecking hell, not sure if people watch players before commenting or just post randomly.
 
Wallez said:
@Adnan I totally agree, Koulibaly is the safest option we have as he is pure class and has the abilities we need. He will be very expensive, but Liverpool have shown that price doesn't matter as long as the player is world class. At the end of the day, buying prospects for 50 mill (Fred) is far more expensive than paying 100 mill for a world class player like Koulibaly. Alderweireld looks like a bargain, but I don't see him as an ideal partner to Lindelöf. Koulibaly provide great physicality and athleticism that Lindelöf lacks, as well as great pace. Koulibaly also has valuable experience and is a great passer of the ball. He will be 28 this summer, meaning that he has at least 4-5 years left at his absolute top level.

If we can bring in Koulibaly and Wan Bissaka for a total of around 120-130 mill pounds, I think we will have a fantastic defensive platform to build or team on. Throw in a midfielder (Rabiot, 10 mill) and a right winger (Sancho, 100 mill), and I think it would be realistic to fight for the title next season. With the players being released and sold, this should be within our budget.
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Couldn't agree more mate..

The only CB we can sign that could rival VVD due to his physical nature. Van Dyke is superb on the ball, but what elevates him from the rest in the league is his searing pace and strength. Koulibaly I believe will have the same impact due to having similar gifts.
 
Adnan said:
Skriniar is too slow, pairing him up with Lindelof would be suicide. Koulibaly is good on the ball and absolutely wastes Skriniar for recovery pace and physicality in general.
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Inter legend and former Inter manager Luis Suarez describes him this way

“È un’ottimo difensore. Veloce, forte in marcatura, anticipa, gioca bene e non commette errori e quando si parla di un centrale è qualcosa di molto importante“, dice Suarez. “Con lui non sbagli. Può giocare in qualsiasi squadra del mondo“.

He's an excellent defender. He's fast, he's very strong in marking and anticipating the player, he plays well and he never commits mistakes. We're talking here of a CB and all those assets are very important to have. He's a sure bet and he can play in any squad in the world"

Francesco Colonnese describes him as very similar to him. He said his only weakness is that he's not that comfortable with the right foot.

http://www.passioneinter.com/notizie-nerazzurre/colonnese-skriniar-inter/?refresh_ce-cp


So stop saying he's slow cause he's not.

Now Koulibaly might be slightly better then Skriniar. However the latter is also 3 years younger. At his age Koulibaly was still at Genk while Skriniar is among the top 3 CBs in Italy.
 
devilish said:
I really don't get this obsession with these experienced top defenders from big clubs. When did that ever worked for us? Stam was a 25 something defender from PSV. He never played 1 game outside Holland before signing for us. Rio came from Leeds at age 24. Just few years before SAF himself criticised his record fee at Leeds which speaks volumes of how rated he was. Same with Vidic, a young defender who was playing in Russia and was close to be signed by mighty Fiorentina prior of us signing him.

Bonucci at Milan, Vidic at Inter and Blanc at United are clear examples that you simply can't plug and play a leader at the back. It doesn't work like that. Defending is not a one man team. The trick to succeed here is to have the right people with the right skills & attitude while hoping that they won't pick injuries that would ruining the consistency they need to settle down. Its not unusual to have defenders who start slow and then end up growing in the job. We had two in Lindelof and Vidic.

If we break the bank on Koulibaly then all the pressure will be on him to succeed. One mistake and we'll be doing a Pogba who get criticised time and time again for not scoring hat-tricks every game.
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Also desperation about one particular player. There are plenty of talents in the world, we shouldn't be taken for a ride for every single player.

Obviously Koulibaly is brilliant player but given choice I would pick Skriniar. Shame he won't be available.
 
devilish said:
Inter legend and former Inter manager Luis Suarez describes him this way

“È un’ottimo difensore. Veloce, forte in marcatura, anticipa, gioca bene e non commette errori e quando si parla di un centrale è qualcosa di molto importante“, dice Suarez. “Con lui non sbagli. Può giocare in qualsiasi squadra del mondo“.

He's an excellent defender. He's fast, he's very strong in marking and anticipating the player, he plays well and he never commits mistakes. We're talking here of a CB and all those assets are very important to have. He's a sure bet and he can play in any squad in the world"

Francesco Colonnese describes him as very similar to him. He said his only weakness is that he's not that comfortable with the right foot.

http://www.passioneinter.com/notizie-nerazzurre/colonnese-skriniar-inter/?refresh_ce-cp


So stop saying he's slow cause he's not.

Now Koulibaly might be slightly better then Skriniar. However the latter is also 3 years younger. At his age Koulibaly was still at Genk while Skriniar is among the top 3 CBs in Italy.
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I don't care what ex players or managers say. The difference between Koulibaly and Skriniar is big from a physical pov. Skriniar from my observation is slow and he demonstrated his lack of pace in the UCL against Spurs where he looked almost as slow as a Tortoise. Playing a high line in the English league against fast attackers with Lindelof and Skriniar would be suicide. Skriniar is a defender that will sign for a team that is more conservative in their approach. Italian league suits his strengths and I can see Mourinho targeting him in the not too distant future. Think he'll fit right into a Mourinho team.

Koulibaly is levels above Skriniar, he's better at everything and more in comparison and plays for a smaller club. His performances have elevated Napoli's defence and helped them become relevant again.
 
roonster09 said:
Also desperation about one particular player. There are plenty of talents in the world, we shouldn't be taken for a ride for every single player.

Obviously Koulibaly is brilliant player but given choice I would pick Skriniar. Shame he won't be available.
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Honestly I wouldn't want either of them. Don't take me wrong both are brilliant defenders but they would cost a bomb which means they will be expected to hit the ground running. At nearly 28 its only a matter of time that Koulibaly will start showing some wear and tear which isn't ideal either.

In my opinion we should take a holistic approach rather then expect a miracle worker

A- We should ensure that DDG stays. If we fail in that then let us involve him in some swap deal with Courtious. We need a top goalkeeper whose EPL proven
B- Lets get some top Fullbacks. This failed wingers as FB thing is a bit silly tbh. I'd go for Tierney and Milenkovic. The former is an old fashioned EPL type of FB who'll fight for the ball for the entire 90 minutes while the latter is comfortable with the ball, he can attack and defend, he provide inches (something only Smalling provides) + he can easily move as CB which would be great if Dalot ever becomes WC.
C- Smalling is literally the only CB we've got who provide inches. So I'd say lets get Andersen and have that issue sorted once and for all.

With those sorted we can get rid of Rojo, Jones, Valencia, Bailly and Darmian.

So the defence would be

RB: Milenkovic, Dalot, Young
LB: Tierney, Shaw
CB: Smalling, J Andersen, Lindelof, Tuanzebe

We would have a perfectly balanced defence there with all the necessary inches, physicality and ball playing BS everyone keep rambling about. There's also 2 future captain material there (Tuanzebe and Tierney) as well.
 
Adnan said:
I don't care what ex players or managers say. The difference between Koulibaly and Skriniar is big from a physical pov. Skriniar from my observation is slow and he demonstrated his lack of pace in the UCL against Spurs where he looked almost as slow as a Tortoise. Playing a high line in the in the English league against fast attackers with Lindelof and Skriniar would be suicide. Skriniar is a defender that will sign for a team that is more conservative in their approach. Italian league suits his strengths and I can see Mourinho targeting him in the not too distant future. Think he'll fit right into a Mourinho team.

Koulibaly is levels above Skriniar, he's better at everything and more in comparison and plays for a smaller club. His performances have elevated Napoli's defence and helped them become relevant again.
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1 game doesn't prove shit let alone allowing you to criticise an Inter legend and former manager who probably watches him week in week out. The difference between Skinny and Koulibaly is minimal and its well compensated considering that Koulibaly is 3 years older then Skinny.
 
devilish said:
Ok then you know better then Inter former manager and player.

And again he's not slow.
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It sounds like I do know more then them if they think hes "fast"

Inter fan Francesco Porzio who works as part of the Di Marzio team, also described Skriniar as having a lack of pace. And my eyes can attest to him being correct.
 
devilish said:
1 game doesn't prove shit let alone allowing you to criticise an Inter legend and former manager who probably watches him week in week out. The difference between Skinny and Koulibaly is minimal and its well compensated considering that Koulibaly is 3 years older then Skinny.
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It's not from one game, and it wouldn't be the first or last time former legends spoke bollox.

Skriniar will never have the recovery pace or physical dominance of a Koulibaly whether he's 3 years younger or 5.
 
Adnan said:
It sounds like I do know more then them if they think hes "fast"

Inter fan Francesco Porzio who works as part of the Di Marzio team, also described Skriniar as having a lack of pace. And my eyes can attest to him being correct.
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I watch Italian football regularly and as said he's not slow. Also I'd rather believe someone who actually played and managed teams then Di Marzio's boy.

Also note that Koulibaly isn't perfect either. Back in 2016 Sarri himself criticised his lapses of concentration. The guy is prone to make brain farts every now and then

 
devilish said:
I watch Italian football regularly and as said he's not slow. Also I'd rather believe someone who actually played and managed teams then Di Marzio's boy.

Also note that Koulibaly isn't perfect either. Back in 2016 Sarri himself criticised his lapses of concentration
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I've watched my fair share of Inter and Skriniar lacks pace.

So Francesco Porzio's opinion is discarded because it goes against what you're arguing? Porzio is a Inter fan and watches them regularly.

I never argued that Koulibaly was perfect in 2016. But he had the raw materials in his armoury that Sarri brought out to compliment his searing pace and strength.
 
Adnan said:
I've watched my fair share of Inter and Skriniar lacks pace.

So Francesco Porzio's opinion is discarded because it goes against what you're arguing? Porzio is a Inter fan and watches them regularly.

I never argued that Koulibaly was perfect in 2016. But he had the raw materials in his armoury that Sarri brought out to compliment his searing pace and strength.
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Well what can I say? Maybe Porzio and your good self can see something that two Inter legends (one of which a former great CB himself) hadn't seen at all. As said, I don't see Skriniar as slow either. Also note that Skriniar is far more rated then Koulibaly was at Skinny's age.
 
devilish said:
Well what can I say? Maybe Porzio and your good self can see something that two Inter legends (one of which a former great CB himself) hadn't seen at all. As said, I don't see Skriniar as slow either. Also note that Skriniar is far more rated then Koulibaly was at Skinny's age.
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You're entitled to your opinion Dev and I respect that. But do we really need to use ex pro's or managers to see if a player lacks pace?

Skriniar probably was more rated at a similar age because he was picked up by Sampdoria at a young age. So was exposed to a bigger league and audience. Koulibaly was picked up by a team in Belgium and went under the radar.
 
devilish said:
I watch Italian football regularly and as said he's not slow. Also I'd rather believe someone who actually played and managed teams then Di Marzio's boy.

Also note that Koulibaly isn't perfect either. Back in 2016 Sarri himself criticised his lapses of concentration. The guy is prone to make brain farts every now and then

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Imo currently Koulibaly is easily a level above Skriniar. Koulibaly is arguably a top 3 CB in the world.
 
United Pro said:
Imo currently Koulibaly is easily a level above Skriniar. Koulibaly is arguably a top 3 CB in the world.
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He might be better but he's also 3 years older. 3 years ago Koulibaly wasn't as good as Skriniar though.
 
Due to the fact I believe we need to buy 5 starters this summer I'd take the cheap option and go with Toby assuming it allowed for us to do that.

If the money is in full flow then I'd buy Toby and another CB but that is a pipe dream
 
Adnan said:
You're entitled to your opinion Dev and I respect that. But do we really need to use ex pro's or managers to see if a player lacks pace?

Skriniar probably was more rated at a similar age because he was picked up by Sampdoria at a young age. So was exposed to a bigger league and audience. Koulibaly was picked up by a team in Belgium and went under the radar.
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Sometimes an experienced eye is needed. For example I used to think Pally was slow. It turned out to be one of the fastest players we had at that time. The reason being is that you see this tall lump who wins alot of his duels by anticipating opposition rather then running after them and you'll think he's slow. Its not the case. Skinny is a bit like that.
 
laughtersassassin said:
Due to the fact I believe we need to buy 5 starters this summer I'd take the cheap option and go with Toby assuming it allowed for us to do that.

If the money is in full flow then I'd buy Toby and another CB but that is a pipe dream
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Like most players, the physical aspect of a defender start waning with time as experience and leadership kicks in to compensate. That until the latter is not able to compensate for the former and the defender in question is forced to retire.

Now I don't think a leader is necessarily an experienced head. Stam, Vidic and Rio were all relatively young when they joined us and they did very well. However, if Ole thinks that we need an experienced leader then we might go for the best (Koulibaly) but only after selling Smalling, Jones, Rojo and probably Young as well. There's no point hording players who are in the wrong end of their career if they need to be micromanaged.

Honestly I don't think Koulibaly would sort the problem in defence. I believe that the defence has been neglected for so long that 1 player won't cut it. Instead of spending the money on 1 player we should keep Smalling, bring in 3 defenders (which would allow us to finally get rid of any failed wingers in defence) and CB, then work ourselves from there. Our defence is screaming for tall players so Id say we sign Milenkovic (whose comfortable both as RB and CB) and Andersen whom both are 6ft4. Meanwhile we get Tierney on the left to cover/compete for a role for Shaw.
 
I personally feel that a CB is not a priority signing and that we shouldn’t be blowing the majority of our kitty here.

Iv been pleasantly surprised with how well lindelof and smalling have developed as a partnership and they deserve another season imo.

What we absolutely need is a RW/RCAM with pace who can stretch play and take his man on.

a matic replacement

Potentially a Herrera replacement

Sanchez needs shipping to China and replacing.

Unless our scouts actually scout and find some young diamond who is cheap, we should hold fire imo.
 
mad1max954 said:
I personally feel that a CB is not a priority signing and that we shouldn’t be blowing the majority of our kitty here.

Iv been pleasantly surprised with how well lindelof and smalling have developed as a partnership and they deserve another season imo.

What we absolutely need is a RW/RCAM with pace who can stretch play and take his man on.

a matic replacement

Potentially a Herrera replacement

Sanchez needs shipping to China and replacing.

Unless our scouts actually scout and find some young diamond who is cheap, we should hold fire imo.
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No No No. Mate this is the attitude that makes us so medicore.

Lindelof Smalling partnership will get us nowhere. Lindelof and someone else has potential.

Smalling has his games but his passing hinders us every game and he is always a mistake waiting to happen.
 
laughtersassassin said:
No No No. Mate this is the attitude that makes us so medicore.

Lindelof Smalling partnership will get us nowhere. Lindelof and someone else has potential.

Smalling has his games but his passing hinders us every game and he is always a mistake waiting to happen.
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Listen, I’m not saying they are perfect. I know smalling is a limited footballer and that jones is a donkey when he comes in - it’s an embarrassment he has spent so long in a united shirt!

What I’m saying is that we need to invest in the attack first. Build the team around scoring goals and hurting teams, then we can look at the defence.

Klopp has the same approach when he took over. Then we can pick up wins against everyone out side the top 6 easily which would more or less guarantee top 4. Then we can spend big on a defender and complete the team.

We don’t have a limitless budget so we need to prioritise.
 
Not sure how he got on the rest of the season but from the few times I saw Dortmund early on I liked the look of Zagadou. Looked mobile and pretty sound on the ball while also being tall and strong. If I remember correctly he was playing in the left CB spot. Very young though so maybe not what we need right now but one to keep an eye on.
 
mad1max954 said:
Listen, I’m not saying they are perfect. I know smalling is a limited footballer and that jones is a donkey when he comes in - it’s an embarrassment he has spent so long in a united shirt!

What I’m saying is that we need to invest in the attack first. Build the team around scoring goals and hurting teams, then we can look at the defence.

Klopp has the same approach when he took over. Then we can pick up wins against everyone out side the top 6 easily which would more or less guarantee top 4. Then we can spend big on a defender and complete the team.

We don’t have a limitless budget so we need to prioritise.
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Not a valid excuse when you can pick up Tobt for 25 million.
 
FootyGirl88 said:
We could be activating Tobys clause

https://www.express.co.uk/sport/foo...er-Toby-Alderweireld-Tottenham-Premier-League

Not my first choice but we have so many other positions to sort we can't spend all our budget on a CB. £25mil would be good business.
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Looked like the best defender on the pitch last night to me. Still a very good CB and better than what we have. My only worry is he's just alright at bringing the ball out from the back. He has a cracking long pass but his short passing is just ok.

Like you said, with other positions to be filled it would be a shrewd signing.
 
Hawks2008 said:
Not sure how he got on the rest of the season but from the few times I saw Dortmund early on I liked the look of Zagadou. Looked mobile and pretty sound on the ball while also being tall and strong. If I remember correctly he was playing in the left CB spot. Very young though so maybe not what we need right now but one to keep an eye on.
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He is definitely talented. Left-footed, tall, good on the ball, great in the air.

However, as you say, he is still young and quite raw. He had an absolute stinker of a game vs Bayern at the weekend, for example.
 
FootyGirl88 said:
We could be activating Tobys clause

https://www.express.co.uk/sport/foo...er-Toby-Alderweireld-Tottenham-Premier-League

Not my first choice but we have so many other positions to sort we can't spend all our budget on a CB. £25mil would be good business.
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Not too keen on that. It's a distraction and we would be locking ourselves into a long term commitment to another player who could be useless in a year or two.

I'd far prefer us to concentrate on finding a long term solution to our CB position, and then get a player like Alderweireld to provide experience and backup.
 
FootyGirl88 said:
We could be activating Tobys clause

https://www.express.co.uk/sport/foo...er-Toby-Alderweireld-Tottenham-Premier-League

Not my first choice but we have so many other positions to sort we can't spend all our budget on a CB. £25mil would be good business.
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Forgot about this, hot transfer target summer last year.

25m is like a bargain price nowadays with all the inflation.

Possible drawbacks,
  • age factor (30 y.o.), may indicate these two below maybe sooner next season than later.
  • declining in abilities (no indication so far, still that good).
  • injury-prone (had his worse injury last season, recurring hamstring problem, fine and fit so far this season).
Idk, but it's a gamble. He might even ask for ridiculous high wages unless the upper management team can handle it well. Matic, Sanchez and Valencia declined that quickly are just unexpected, all in one season, last Season 17/18, obvious more and more towards the end, and continuing this season. Thankfully Matic is still useful.

I don't mind though, hopefully it'll turn out to be at least/minimum like the Ferguson signed Blanc situation. He did helped us get the title back and provide the much needed stability at the back.

Alderweireld may be a good cheap short term solution, if we can't get a better target.
 
25m is f*ck all if we get 2/3 good years out of him.

We have a lot of other positions to fill as well. I'd be all for Alderweireld.
 
Bwuk said:
25m is f*ck all if we get 2/3 good years out of him.

We have a lot of other positions to fill as well. I'd be all for Alderweireld.
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Injury proneness is an issue though, we could still be playing Smalling if he gets injured and bailly too doesn't get back to his best.
 
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Patrick08 said:
Injury process is an issue though, we could still be playing Smalling if he gets injured and bailly too doesn't get back to his best.
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He's played basically every game this season. Smalling has missed more than him.
 
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