Centre Back... Who do we go for?

Hopefully last nights first 15 minutes of Phil Jones brain farts put to bed the notion some have on here that we should keep him.

Huge concentration lapses every game.

Didn’t Godin use us at the end of the last transfer window to get a new contract out of Atletico?
 
I'd happily not buy anyone but defenders for the next 2-3 windows until we have one of the top 2 defences in the league again. Yes I want a top RW option brought in but we have enough quality up top to make that no more pressing than replacing Shaw.....Rashers/Lukaku/Sanchez can rotate in on the right...
 
Think you can put Bailly, Rojo and Jones in a Tesco's 10p bag and leave them off to the nearest donation point.

Big job for the summer getting some quality in that area.
 
Minimalist said:
Think you can put Bailly, Rojo and Jones in a Tesco's 10p bag and leave them off to the nearest donation point.

Big job for the summer getting some quality in that area.
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Bailly has to stay if only to give him longer without Jose to find his game. Darmian, Rojo and Jones to be sold for me with Valencia allowed to leave and Young kept on purely as cover next season.
 
Rocknrolla69er said:
Hopefully last nights first 15 minutes of Phil Jones brain farts put to bed the notion some have on here that we should keep him.

Huge concentration lapses every game.

Didn’t Godin use us at the end of the last transfer window to get a new contract out of Atletico?
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Him being available on a free would give you a big clue on how his contract deal went a few months ago :lol:
 
I have to say if there is any truth in this Manolas buy out clause of 32 mil that would be very intresting because new manager liking him or not he’d be an upgrade on Bailly, Jones and Rojo and probably worth the hit of 30 mil. Seems crazy but seems relatively cheap for a CB these days.
 
Andersons Dietician said:
I have to say if there is any truth in this Manolas buy out clause of 32 mil that would be very intresting because new manager liking him or not he’d be an upgrade on Bailly, Jones and Rojo and probably worth the hit of 30 mil. Seems crazy but seems relatively cheap for a CB these days.
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Yup, Manolas is good in the air & has plenty of experience in UCL matches. Definitely an upgrade on the 3 you mentioned. At that price I think he's a steal.
If Roma's Monchi were to propose a straight swap deal - Bailly (25 this year) for Manolas (turns 28 this year), would you go for it?
 
sideshow_bob said:
Yup, Manolas is good in the air & has plenty of experience in UCL matches. Definitely an upgrade on the 3 you mentioned. At that price I think he's a steal.
If Roma's Monchi were to propose a straight swap deal - Bailly (25 this year) for Manolas (turns 28 this year), would you go for it?
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Reluctantly probably yes. Bailly is a weird one as there is obviously something there just not sure what. If you had said Rojo or Jones then I wouldn’t hesitate.
 
Andersons Dietician said:
Reluctantly probably yes. Bailly is a weird one as there is obviously something there just not sure what. If you had said Rojo or Jones then I wouldn’t hesitate.
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Yeah I'd reluctantly accept too. Just got a feeling that the EPL is not the league for Bailly.

Haha Roma are no mugs. No way they ask for RoJones. This is the club that replaced Salah with Under & Kluivert. Both of whom they'll probably make serious profits on in the future.
 
I'm pretty confident that we will sign someone soon, I just hope it's koulibaly, he probably would love the opportunity to play CL even it was one game, however, he has experience of playing against PSG.
 
gulli_G said:
I'm pretty confident that we will sign someone soon, I just hope it's koulibaly, he probably would love the opportunity to play CL even it was one game, however, he has experience of playing against PSG.
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Considering Koulibaily has already played for Napoli in this seasons CL, would he not be 'cup-tied' and unavailable to play for us against PSG?
 
Surely one or more of Alderweireld (£25m), Godin (free) and Manolas (about £32m release clause) has to be considered. Hypothetically, we can sign Godin and either Alderweireld or Manolas and sell Rojo (£20m) and Jones (£15m) for an overall profit.

As good as Koulibaly is, I just don't think spending £100m on him is the best option, given that we would still need investment in a RW, CDM (Matic replacement) and a full back (preferably an attacking LB).

Optimally for me we'd sign de Ligt and Godin, so we have top level potential alongside an experienced arguably still world class CB who can organise the defense (although his form this season is a little worrying).
 
gulli_G said:
I'm pretty confident that we will sign someone soon, I just hope it's koulibaly, he probably would love the opportunity to play CL even it was one game, however, he has experience of playing against PSG.
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I don't think he can play in the CL for us I could be wrong though
 
I'm sure Manolas is fine but after watching Roma against Liverpool last season, I wouldn't be dying to buy any of them. Seemed like such a shite side (in a shite league let's be fair).
 
I did sugggested Kalidou Koulibaly earlier. But when i think about it again. Like during Sir Alex. He didnt prefer players that will head off to African nation cup or asian cup like Son of Spurs. It will not benefit United. And United already have a CB in Bailly that will head off to African nation cup. So i would go for a non african player. So for me i would vote for De Ligt from Ajax.

Imagine a central spine of De Ligt, De Jong and Rashford. If United could get both of the Ajax boy. A really promising and good central spine that will play for United in a decade, the next 10 years. Adding with players Pogba, Sancho, Martial and Witsel to that central spine. You will guess who good the result of those combinations together. All top ball players with flair in their positions. It mean those together. They will dominate football matche really often.
And about the De Ligt. If he could work with the acceleration and the speed of the first metres. Be more quicker in the first metres. De Ligt can turn out to be a giant of a CB the next decade. He is really good with the ball, but he hasnt the top acceleration to cope players like Salah, Sterling, Hazard or Sane. So he might will get in trouble against those players with top acceleration.

And in the end. Why are not United doing a deal like Chelsea or PSG with Mbappe and Monaco. Buy De Ligt, De Jong and Sancho and let all of them play with their current teams to the end of the season?They will not allow those 3 players leave in January, but they might agree to let United buy if United pay them a good price and let them keep the players for the rest of the season. You never know until you give it a try and ask them for it. A win win situation for all 3 parts. United get them, their current clubs and them might win the trophies. Its about beeing ahead of others clubs, when it come to buying really good players and talents. Every managers out there would love to work with players like De Ligt, De Jong and Sancho.

And back to Kalidou Koulibaly. United have a really good and fast Cb in Bailly. But having 2 african players who will go to African Nation Cup. Its not a good situation for a club. Bailly is really fast and is good on one against one. But Bailly is playing football, sometime like he is doing kung fu master, Shaolin or Rambo football. He has to be more composure and drop those kungfu tackling.
But having CB options like De Ligt, Smalling, Lindelof, Jones, Bailly + Tuanzebe. I think should be good enough for premier league title contender. I would be satisfy with those CB options. 5 ready regular Cb options with Tuanzebe start to train and become a fulltime first squad member. If i Napoli wouldnt go with a Baly swap deal. A Baly for another Bailly.
 
LuckyScout78 said:
I did sugggested Kalidou Koulibaly earlier. But when i think about it again. Like during Sir Alex. He didnt prefer players that will head off to African nation cup or asian cup like Son of Spurs. It will not benefit United. And United already have a CB in Bailly that will head off to African nation cup. So i would go for a non african player. So for me i would vote for De Ligt from Ajax.
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African Cup of Nations is a summer tournament now.
 
Seven Seas Sardines said:
We need a LCB, preferably left-footed and 26-27 years old. Pavard could be good for giving depth at RB, but if we bring him or De Ligt in we'd still need another CB.
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If that's the brief, the shortlist looks absolutely woeful...

Left-footed CBs, 25-28 years old (I had to expand the age parameters a bit!), sorted by value on Transfermarkt:

Umtiti(£70m), I.Martinez(£32m), Nastasic(£22m), Blind(£18m), Ben Gibson(£15m), John Brooks(£15m), Rojo(£15m), Sakho(£15m), Juan Jesus(£11m), Martins Indi(£10m), Mangala(£10m)....

I mean, Umtiti aside (and Blind/Rojo!), would you want any of that lot anywhere near our team?

Slim pickings where left-footed experienced CBs are concerned.
 
RedorDead21 said:
Bailly has to stay if only to give him longer without Jose to find his game. Darmian, Rojo and Jones to be sold for me with Valencia allowed to leave and Young kept on purely as cover next season.
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Smalling has to go before people mention Bailly leaving. Smalling might be good defensively but in a team trying to play out the back it is like playing with 10 men. He never makes himself available and he spreads his nervousness to players around him. Smalling, Jones, Rojo can all leave. If we can get Alderweireld/Koulibaly and keep Tuanzebe as cover that would be fine.
 
LuckyScout78 said:
Imagine a central spine of De Ligt, De Jong and Rashford. If United could get both of the Ajax boy. A really promising and good central spine that will play for United in a decade, the next 10 years. Adding with players Pogba, Sancho, Martial and Witsel to that central spine. You will guess who good the result of those combinations together. All top ball players with flair in their positions. It mean those together. They will dominate football matche really often.
And about the De Ligt. If he could work with the acceleration and the speed of the first metres. Be more quicker in the first metres. De Ligt can turn out to be a giant of a CB the next decade. He is really good with the ball, but he hasnt the top acceleration to cope players like Salah, Sterling, Hazard or Sane. So he might will get in trouble against those players with top acceleration.

And in the end. Why are not United doing a deal like Chelsea or PSG with Mbappe and Monaco. Buy De Ligt, De Jong and Sancho and let all of them play with their current teams to the end of the season?They will not allow those 3 players leave in January, but they might agree to let United buy if United pay them a good price and let them keep the players for the rest of the season. You never know until you give it a try and ask them for it. A win win situation for all 3 parts. United get them, their current clubs and them might win the trophies. Its about beeing ahead of others clubs, when it come to buying really good players and talents. Every managers out there would love to work with players like De Ligt, De Jong and Sancho.
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This is my thinking. We're a pretty young side and seeing where we're at, we should be trying to build the next dominant side. Try to bring through Greenwood, Gomes, and Tuanzebe. Buy De Ligt, and De Jong. And I'm of the opinion we buy Sessegnon, and turn him into the next dominant LB. A side with a lot of technical ability.
 
Milenkovic and Alderweireld in the summer would be very nice although everyone is gonna be after them two. PSG, Madrid and Barca will all probably be interested in Alderweireld.
Atletico Madrid and Juve might be interested in Milenkovic so no free run there either
 
AngryCroat said:
We need 1 experienced CB.. So IMO that would be just waste of money and it wouldn't guarantee they would do better than our current cbs.. Why not play Lindelof + one experienced cb who can read game.. IMO Godin would be by far best option
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You are talking way too much sense there for our board to heed your advice
 
Infra-red said:
If that's the brief, the shortlist looks absolutely woeful...

Left-footed CBs, 25-28 years old (I had to expand the age parameters a bit!), sorted by value on Transfermarkt:

Umtiti(£70m), I.Martinez(£32m), Nastasic(£22m), Blind(£18m), Ben Gibson(£15m), John Brooks(£15m), Rojo(£15m), Sakho(£15m), Juan Jesus(£11m), Martins Indi(£10m), Mangala(£10m)....

I mean, Umtiti aside (and Blind/Rojo!), would you want any of that lot anywhere near our team?

Slim pickings where left-footed experienced CBs are concerned.
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Koulibaly?
EDIT - Just saw left footed.
 
In Rainbows said:
This is my thinking. We're a pretty young side and seeing where we're at, we should be trying to build the next dominant side. Try to bring through Greenwood, Gomes, and Tuanzebe. Buy De Ligt, and De Jong. And I'm of the opinion we buy Sessegnon, and turn him into the next dominant LB. A side with a lot of technical ability.
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Seriously, people need to stop with the trying to turn Sess into a leftback. He is shite at defending and his attacking quality would be completely wasted.
 
Lash said:
Seriously, people need to stop with the trying to turn Sess into a leftback. He is shite at defending and his attacking quality would be completely wasted.
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Your point about his attacking quality being wasted makes no sense from a team's point of view. It makes sense from the individual's point of view because it's prioritizing the individual over the team. Because unless he is better than Martial on the left, it doesn't matter if the left wing is a better platform for him to showcase his attacking talent. Similarly, you would think someone that's better than your average LB at attacking is better for the team. Just ask yourself, would it be better for Shaw to attack as well as Sessegnon? The answer is obviously yes.

Your point about defending is valid though. I've not seen enough to accurately judge, but seeing as he's still only 18 I would think it's a bit harsh. Especially when we've turned Young and Valencia into fullbacks.
 
In Rainbows said:
Your point about his attacking quality being wasted makes no sense from a team's point of view. It makes sense from the individual's point of view because it's prioritizing the individual over the team. Because unless he is better than Martial on the left, it doesn't matter if the left wing is a better platform for him to showcase his attacking talent. Similarly, you would think someone that's better than your average LB at attacking is better for the team. Just ask yourself, would it be better for Shaw to attack as well as Sessegnon? The answer is obviously yes.

Your point about defending is valid though. I've not seen enough to accurately judge, but seeing as he's still only 18 I would think it's a bit harsh. Especially when we've turned Young and Valencia into fullbacks.
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I mean, I don't really understand the attacking point you just made. It's not about "showcasing" as you put, it's about him being effective within the team. You don't put someone at left back because he's good at attacking, his attacking qualities are only really on show when he plays closer to the box or on the last man. He's not better than Martial, so why would you try and shoe horn him into the team? Surely that is more of a detriment to the team.

Young and Valencia had long careers attacking on the wings, prior to moving back to full back. I'm not sure they're particularly good examples in this instance.
 
Lash said:
I mean, I don't really understand the attacking point you just made. It's not about "showcasing" as you put, it's about him being effective within the team. You don't put someone at left back because he's good at attacking, his attacking qualities are only really on show when he plays closer to the box or on the last man. He's not better than Martial, so why would you try and shoe horn him into the team? Surely that is more of a detriment to the team.

Young and Valencia had long careers attacking on the wings, prior to moving back to full back. I'm not sure they're particularly good examples in this instance.
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My attacking point is that you're saying (part 1 of your argument) that because Sessegnon is a good attacker, he shouldn't play at LB because his attacking ability is stunted at LB. Which to me makes no sense from a team's perspective. How is a player who can play as an attacker worse off for the team when modern fullbacks are expected to contribute heavily to the attacks? I'm perfectly fine with Shaw, but many on here complain about his attacking ability. Sessegnon wouldn't have that problem because he's obviously a better attacker with better ability to make a difference in the final 3rd when the situation calls for it, and also better at getting past defenders precisely because he's good enough to be an attacker.

So the attacking portion of your argument, I don't get. The defensive portion of your argument I understand because a fullback must know how to defend. I used Young and Valencia as examples because they're older former wingers who were turned fullbacks all because they were now no longer good enough as attackers. Sessegnon is only 18. Why is it that we can turn Young and Valencia into fullbacks, but not Sessegnon when Sessegnon is most likely going to be better going forward, and also have fresher legs than those veterans? The only argument in favor of utilizing Young and Valencia as fullbacks, but not Sessegnon is that those two were proven PL players and Sessegnon hasn't yet proved that. However, he's most likely good enough for the PL. He's only 18. Not many 18 year olds can currently play at his current level.
 
LuckyScout78 said:
So for me i would vote for De Ligt from Ajax.

Imagine a central spine of De Ligt, De Jong and Rashford. If United could get both of the Ajax boy. A really promising and good central spine that will play for United in a decade, the next 10 years. Adding with players Pogba, Sancho, Martial and Witsel to that central spine. You will guess who good the result of those combinations together. All top ball players with flair in their positions. It mean those together. They will dominate football matche really often.
And about the De Ligt. If he could work with the acceleration and the speed of the first metres. Be more quicker in the first metres. De Ligt can turn out to be a giant of a CB the next decade. He is really good with the ball, but he hasnt the top acceleration to cope players like Salah, Sterling, Hazard or Sane. So he might will get in trouble against those players with top acceleration.
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;)

 
Whoever signs De Ligt will have a top 3 future CB in their squad. I really hope it will be us but my gut feeling says we will miss out as usual and go for some crap player.
 
In Rainbows said:
My attacking point is that you're saying (part 1 of your argument) that because Sessegnon is a good attacker, he shouldn't play at LB because his attacking ability is stunted at LB. Which to me makes no sense from a team's perspective. How is a player who can play as an attacker worse off for the team when modern fullbacks are expected to contribute heavily to the attacks? I'm perfectly fine with Shaw, but many on here complain about his attacking ability. Sessegnon wouldn't have that problem because he's obviously a better attacker with better ability to make a difference in the final 3rd when the situation calls for it, and also better at getting past defenders precisely because he's good enough to be an attacker.

So the attacking portion of your argument, I don't get. The defensive portion of your argument I understand because a fullback must know how to defend. I used Young and Valencia as examples because they're older former wingers who were turned fullbacks all because they were now no longer good enough as attackers. Sessegnon is only 18. Why is it that we can turn Young and Valencia into fullbacks, but not Sessegnon when Sessegnon is most likely going to be better going forward, and also have fresher legs than those veterans? The only argument in favor of utilizing Young and Valencia as fullbacks, but not Sessegnon is that those two were proven PL players and Sessegnon hasn't yet proved that. However, he's most likely good enough for the PL. He's only 18. Not many 18 year olds can currently play at his current level.
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I won't de-rail this any further, but I don't understand why you're separating the two arguments. They work very much in tandem. If you have a player who's not very good at defending and great going forward and playing left wing, why would you buy him to try and make him a left back? That would be like saying why don't we make Chong a right back because he's not better than what we currently have on the right - he's young enough to learn how to defend right?
 
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