Centre Back... Who do we go for?

I honestly think we’re too hard on our centre backs.

Bailly and Lindelof are both 24 with plenty of potential to develop.

For a bit of perspective Virgil van Dyke had just moved to Southampton from Celtic at that stage in his career.

Maybe bring someone in to add stability, Maguire preferably, but I certainly wouldn’t be looking to sell these guys.
 
Devil may care said:
The more I've watched of Skriniar the more I've noticed how flat footed he is vs any decent pace, that's a big question mark for the PL, we certainly couldn't pair him with Lindelof who is also slow. Milenkovic is decent but really if we are going to buy another CB in the age range of Axel then de Ligt is the only one really worth it IMO
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(Don't want to derail the twitter thread)
No offence, but why are you turning your nose up at Tierney, while saying, apart from de Ligt, that no other CB in Tuanzebe's age range would be worth going after? Don't get me wrong, I like Tuanzebe and I want to see him take Jones' place in our squad, but he's playing well in the second division. It's hardly the best barometer for a United player. Using your reasoning for signing more full-backs, I'd say if Dalot and Shaw need more competition, so will Tuanzebe. There are quite a few young CBs out there, who are worth looking at and who are doing it at a higher level than Tuanzebe. And before I sound like a Tierney fanboy, I'd prefer Ferland Mendy and he's just an example. I agree with you on Skriniar for what it's worth.
 
sglowrider said:
Stam says hello
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Are you comparing Stam to Jones?

Fergie admitted he got it wrong letting Stam go too early, fans of pretty much every other team apart from United can clearly see Jones isn’t good enough, yet a small element of United fans seem to settle for any standard of player. Continuing with players sub par like Jones and not signing top class replacements when it’s clear they arnt good enough is a big part of why United have regressed
 
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sideshow_bob said:
I hope we are as he looks real promising & will be out of contract in the summer. Rumours are that Barca's Abidal is already in pre-contract talks to get both him & Rabiot on Bosman deals.
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If he's out of contract in the summer, then we need to move for him. The kid is a huge prospect and could outshine the current young hyped up CBs in Europe in a few years.
 
bucky said:
(Don't want to derail the twitter thread)
No offence, but why are you turning your nose up at Tierney, while saying, apart from de Ligt, that no other CB in Tuanzebe's age range would be worth going after? Don't get me wrong, I like Tuanzebe and I want to see him take Jones' place in our squad, but he's playing well in the second division. It's hardly the best barometer for a United player. Using your reasoning for signing more full-backs, I'd say if Dalot and Shaw need more competition, so will Tuanzebe. There are quite a few young CBs out there, who are worth looking at and who are doing it at a higher level than Tuanzebe. And before I sound like a Tierney fanboy, I'd prefer Ferland Mendy and he's just an example. I agree with you on Skriniar for what it's worth.
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I'm not suggesting Axel come into this squad as anything but the 5th CB right now, kind of where Evans was behind Rio/Vida/O'Shea/Brown when he first made the main squad. We also own Axel already so there is no £35-40M outlay to bring him in. I don't think we will buy more than one CB over the next two windows so my view is that we should be looking at someone that can bring leadership and that is Koulibaly, he makes the most sense to me, and de Ligt is the only young CB worth bringing in as all of them bar him would just be making up the numbers IMO.
 
Cardozo said:
I honestly think we’re too hard on our centre backs.

Bailly and Lindelof are both 24 with plenty of potential to develop.

For a bit of perspective Virgil van Dyke had just moved to Southampton from Celtic at that stage in his career.

Maybe bring someone in to add stability, Maguire preferably, but I certainly wouldn’t be looking to sell these guys.
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Great point right there. Great point why we really only need one CB
 
Devil may care said:
I'm not suggesting Axel come into this squad as anything but the 5th CB right now, kind of where Evans was behind Rio/Vida/O'Shea/Brown when he first made the main squad. We also own Axel already so there is no £35-40M outlay to bring him in. I don't think we will buy more than one CB over the next two windows so my view is that we should be looking at someone that can bring leadership and that is Koulibaly, he makes the most sense to me, and de Ligt is the only young CB worth bringing in as all of them bar him would just be making up the numbers IMO.
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I agree, we probably only need 1 established commanding CB who can lead and organize the defence. A calm head to make sure our defence don’t crumble during set pieces and heavy pressure.

We already have plently of potential in Lindelof, Baily, and maybe to a lesser extend TFM, Tuanzebe etc.
Also not forgetting decent backup options in Smalling, Jones, Rojo if they stay.

The players hyped about usually look fantastic in highlight reels, but that does not guarantee success when they arrive.

I’m of the opinion that 1 right CB signing can potentially bring out the best in our current crop, and that would be enough.
 
Someone aerially dominant would be a huge upgrade. We only have Smalling who is strong in that department.
 
Devil may care said:
I'm not suggesting Axel come into this squad as anything but the 5th CB right now, kind of where Evans was behind Rio/Vida/O'Shea/Brown when he first made the main squad. We also own Axel already so there is no £35-40M outlay to bring him in. I don't think we will buy more than one CB over the next two windows so my view is that we should be looking at someone that can bring leadership and that is Koulibaly, he makes the most sense to me, and de Ligt is the only young CB worth bringing in as all of them bar him would just be making up the numbers IMO.
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Fair enough, but what if both aren't happening (which is likely)?
 
Adnan said:
Someone aerially dominant would be a huge upgrade. We only have Smalling who is strong in that department.
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Agreed, especially if they are going to partner either Lindelof or Bailly as both are crap in the air.
 
bucky said:
Fair enough, but what if both aren't happening (which is likely)?
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Then I wouldn't bother in truth because £50M for Milenkovic, Militao, Manolas or even Pavard isn't going to solve the problems with this defense, which is organizational leadership. Skriniar actually would add to this aspect but his flat foodedness would concern me for the mega money we'd be charged.
 
Devil may care said:
Then I wouldn't bother in truth because £50M for Milenkovic, Militao, Manolas or even Pavard isn't going to solve the problems with this defense, which is organizational leadership. Skriniar actually would add to this aspect but his flat foodedness would concern me for the mega money we'd be charged.
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If we move on from Rojo and Jones, that would be the wrong choice IMO. We need investment there, even if it means we aren't getting the best players possible. Diallo could definitely help as the LCB. In fact I'd probably prefer spending whatever Dortmund would ask for instead of more than 100m for Koulibaly.
 
Devil may care said:
Then I wouldn't bother in truth because £50M for Milenkovic, Militao, Manolas or even Pavard isn't going to solve the problems with this defense, which is organizational leadership. Skriniar actually would add to this aspect but his flat foodedness would concern me for the mega money we'd be charged.
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Milenkovic would be a huge upgrade as far as being strong aerially. He also wipes the floor with Lindelof in pretty much every other facet, with the exception of bringing the ball out from the back.
 
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Nirv said:
I agree, we probably only need 1 established commanding CB who can lead and organize the defence. A calm head to make sure our defence don’t crumble during set pieces and heavy pressure.

We already have plently of potential in Lindelof, Baily, and maybe to a lesser extend TFM, Tuanzebe etc.
Also not forgetting decent backup options in Smalling, Jones, Rojo if they stay.

The players hyped about usually look fantastic in highlight reels, but that does not guarantee success when they arrive.

I’m of the opinion that 1 right CB signing can potentially bring out the best in our current crop, and that would be enough.
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My honest view is that we'll end up dipping back in for another CB long term as neither Lindelof or Bailly convince me, too many flaws in their respective games, but they'll be given another season to see if they can stake a claim. Hopefully we'll see Axel make the progress in that time from 5th choice to being in the main 4.

The thing to think about is that the one CB making the difference can get injured at any time and then we are right back where we started, in the past if one of Bruce or Pallister got hurt we still had the other, same with Rio and Vidic.
 
bucky said:
If we move on from Rojo and Jones, that would be the wrong choice IMO. We need investment there, even if it means we aren't getting the best players possible. Diallo could definitely help as the LCB. In fact I'd probably prefer spending whatever Dortmund would ask for instead of more than 100m for Koulibaly.
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I just think it will all be the same, Liverpool didn't solve their two glaring weaknesses by using half measures. These players are doing fine under a lot less pressure and focus but most of them have no sustained level and wont fix the organizational issues, Jones is not even a bad CB, he just can't stay fit, but when fit I don't think most of these choices are better than him.

Adnan said:
Milenkovic would be a huge upgrade as far as being strong aerially. He also wipes the floor with Lindelof in pretty much every other facet, with the exception bringing the ball out.
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He's no stronger than Smalling aerially and I personally don't think he would displace him in the starting line-up with Lindelof as Smalling is much faster and more mobile, while Lindelof is better on the ball. He'd be a £50M rotation option, we need a bonafide starter that can organize a defense in there IMO
 
Devil may care said:
I just think it will all be the same, Liverpool didn't solve their two glaring weaknesses by using half measures. These players are doing fine under a lot less pressure and focus but most of them have no sustained level and wont fix the organizational issues, Jones is not even a bad CB, he just can't stay fit, but when fit I don't think most of these choices are better than him.



He's no stronger than Smalling aerially and I personally don't think he would displace him in the starting line-up with Lindelof as Smalling is much faster and more mobile, while Lindelof is better on the ball. He'd be a £50M rotation option, we need a bonafide starter that can organize a defense in there IMO
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Smalling is very strong aerially but he isn't faster than Milenkovic. You obviously haven't seen much of the young Serbian if you believe that.

Your criticism was, that apart from De Ligt, the rest of the young linked CBs, would just make up the numbers. Milenkovic would be a huge upgrade on Lindelof. He's faster, much stronger in the air and can bring the ball out from defense, just aswell as Lindelof. He has all of Lindelof strengths and none of his weaknesses.

We need to learn to walk again before we start running. Having a leader at the back is great, but first let's get some CBs that can actually defend to a high standard.
 
The Stain said:
Just pay 200m for De Ligt+Koulibaly :angel:
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This.

This football management lark would be so much easier if we dispensed with all the technicalities - will he fit into manager's system? Will he adhere to the clubs philosophy? Is he under 30? Can he do it on a cold night at Stoke? blah blah fecking blah - and simply go out and buy the most expensive players money can buy. This tried and trusted method has worked wonders for the biggest and best clubs in Europe so why not follow suit?
 
Random Task said:
This.

This football management lark would be so much easier if we dispensed with all the technicalities - will he fit into manager's system? Will he adhere to the clubs philosophy? Is he under 30? Can he do it on a cold night at Stoke? blah blah fecking blah - and simply go out and buy the most expensive players money can buy. This tried and trusted method has worked wonders for the biggest and best clubs in Europe so why not follow suit?
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It's pure muppetry on my side but.. Be nice, wouldn't it? I believe CB is our weakest position in terms of quality and i'd like to get 2 of them. Even if those 2 would be all we sign in the summer i'd be happy with it. We can get by another season with what we have in the other positions.

Would they want to join is a different story.. De Ligt is probably impossible. Koulibaly less so but he's just signed a new contract and absolutely loves Naples and Napoli.

De Ligt would be the leader of the defense that we're craving and Koulibaly is top quality. Think they'd complement eachother nicely.
 
The Stain said:
It's pure muppetry on my side but.. Be nice, wouldn't it? I believe CB is our weakest position in terms of quality and i'd like to get 2 of them. Even if those 2 would be all we sign in the summer i'd be happy with it. We can get by another season with what we have in the other positions.

Would they want to join is a different story.. De Ligt is probably impossible. Koulibaly less so but he's just signed a new contract and absolutely loves Naples and Napoli.

De Ligt would be the leader of the defense that we're craving and Koulibaly is top quality. Think they'd complement eachother nicely.
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Apart from the ridiculous racism he got in his last game!
 
Heck, Godin+Alderweireld for peanuts would be pretty nifty :drool: (age-ists piss off)
 
The Stain said:
It's pure muppetry on my side but.. Be nice, wouldn't it? I believe CB is our weakest position in terms of quality and i'd like to get 2 of them. Even if those 2 would be all we sign in the summer i'd be happy with it. We can get by another season with what we have in the other positions.

Would they want to join is a different story.. De Ligt is probably impossible. Koulibaly less so but he's just signed a new contract and absolutely loves Naples and Napoli.

De Ligt would be the leader of the defense that we're craving and Koulibaly is top quality. Think they'd complement eachother nicely.
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It's criminal that over the last 6 years the likes of Smalling, Jones, Rojo, Evans, Blind, Bailly, Lindelof have yet to cement a first-team place. So many purchases and an equal number of failures. Not to mention the fact that they're all still at the club eating away at the wage budget.

I agree that we can get by with what we have in other positons for a year or so, particularly with youth-team products such as Gomes, Chong and Greenwood on the cusp of breaking into the first-team squad, so blowing an entire Summer transfer budget on that which has been a problem position for far too long now would be sensible.

De Ligt is at Ajax isn't he, why would he be difficult to get?
 
Random Task said:
It's criminal that over the last 6 years the likes of Smalling, Jones, Rojo, Evans, Blind, Bailly, Lindelof have yet to cement a first-team place. So many purchases and an equal number of failures. ?
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Smalling has been a mainstay of the defence for years surely? The rest though, agree.
 
Random Task said:
It's criminal that over the last 6 years the likes of Smalling, Jones, Rojo, Evans, Blind, Bailly, Lindelof have yet to cement a first-team place. So many purchases and an equal number of failures. Not to mention the fact that they're all still at the club eating away at the wage budget.

I agree that we can get by with what we have in other positons for a year or so, particularly with youth-team products such as Gomes, Chong and Greenwood on the cusp of breaking into the first-team squad, so blowing an entire Summer transfer budget on that which has been a problem position for far too long now would be sensible.

De Ligt is at Ajax isn't he, why would he be difficult to get?
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Ye was going to add giving chances to our youth but it was implied.

I just think De Ligt will be more interested in Juve or Barca. We should try though, absolutely.
 
@Random Task, because pretty much every big club is after De Ligt. He can choose any club he want to play for and United isn't exactly in the best years of our existence. We'll see, you never know.
 
Adnan said:
Smalling is very strong aerially but he isn't faster than Milenkovic. You obviously haven't seen much of the young Serbian if you believe that.

Your criticism was, that apart from De Ligt, the rest of the young linked CBs, would just make up the numbers. Milenkovic would be a huge upgrade on Lindelof. He's faster, much stronger in the air and can bring the ball out from defense, just aswell as Lindelof. He has all of Lindelof strengths and none of his weaknesses.

We need to learn to walk again before we start running. Having a leader at the back is great, but first let's get some CBs that can actually defend to a high standard.
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I would honestly question how closely you have watched Smalling if you think Milenkovic is as fast as him, Smalling has his flaws but over 10-15 yards there aren't many faster CB's around, Milenkovic is playing in a much slower league and moves well enough for his size, but he's not fast by any stretch of the imagination.

I disagree, de Ligt displaces anyone in this team, I think Milenkovic is just a sideways move, another solid but nothing speical CB that could come in and out like the ones we already have, I mean you are talking about him as an upgrade Lindelof who has been arguably our best CB this season, so who would you pair Milenkovic with if he is the only CB we buy?

We have CB's that can defend, that's not the issue, it's the lack of organization that is the problem, it's like Varane, he's a good CB who looks better because he has Ramos leading him, the basic defending isn't where we lack, it's the CB that can tie the back 4 together and lead it, just adding in another CB with decent fundementals wont stop all of the dissogranization that leads to us conceding goals, we'd concede as many with Milenkovic or Militao or Manolas as we are coneding now.

If all you want is another CB with good defensive fundamentals then Axel is right there waiting to get a chance, and he wont cost us a penny. I'm tired of half measures, of "He'll do until we can get the best." buys. For the money we pay we should get the best or we should hold tight until we can as we have wasted a ridiculous amount of money on sideways buys rather than upgrades.
 
Sandikan said:
Smalling has been a mainstay of the defence for years surely? The rest though, agree.
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But I fear he has become the mainstay of the defence through a lack of competition rather than his ability to perform in the role.

That sounds harsh.

Smalling is a decent center back on his day, but he has been unable to shake that proneness to errors which has plagued his career at the club. He has earned a place in the squad regardless.
 
The Stain said:
Heck, Godin+Alderweireld for peanuts would be pretty nifty :drool: (age-ists piss off)
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Ageism has nothing to do with it, Alderweireld is only touching 30, but both are past their best and would just be coming here for that big fat last payday, we've been done like this before.
 
MadDogg said:
He's almost certainly going to have the likes of Barcelona and City going for him, and he would almost certainly prefer them over us unfortunately (Barcelona moreso; City because of the Pep factor).
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Just shoot me said:
@Random Task, because pretty much every big club is after De Ligt. He can choose any club he want to play for and United isn't exactly in the best years of our existence. We'll see, you never know.
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The Stain said:
Ye was going to add giving chances to our youth but it was implied.

I just think De Ligt will be more interested in Juve or Barca. We should try though, absolutely.
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Fair enough.
 
let's stop going for the value option and stump up the cash required for Koulibaly.

Liverpool tried that with Klavan, Lovren etc. Stop messing about and buy the obvious world class talent.
 
Devil may care said:
Ageism has nothing to do with it, Alderweireld is only touching 30, but both are past their best and would just be coming here for that big fat last payday, we've been done like this before.
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They'd be a huge upgrade on what we have. I'd prefer a longer term approach but with what we currently have, turning our noses up for these two is madness.
 
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