Casemiro (Out)

noelyman said:
I'd hate for some of you lot to be in charge of this team. You'd do a worse job than ETH has regarding wheeling and dealing. Casemiro out i'm fine with. Looks past his best. But Bruno??? Good teams don't sell their best players, the very notion that you sell your best players to recoup some value and sign others, is a small club mentality. And unless you strike gold and get Coutinho like money like the scousers did it's not worth it.

Take Bruno out of our team this season and we'd be probably hovering above relegation. Give us 60m to waste on an average player? No thanks. Buy better players and make the team stocked so that the benched players can be sold on for profit is what good teams do. Ala 115FC with Palmer, Jesus etc.
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You can’t just assume this will happen and it’s not how ffp works anyway. The key isn’t only fees (as much as they help) it’s about getting Case (£1.5m per month, Varane £1.4m per month, Martial £1m per month etc.) off the wage bill.

What I don’t understand about our fan base is there’s an acceptance we’re not good enough but there’s an inability to accept the reality which is none of our senior players are the level we want. In the younger guys cases there’s the hope they kick on but for most established seniors, they’ve been part of a poor period in our history and as much as people blame managers, they are equally (if not more) to blame. Bruno still lives off his first two seasons and the fact he works hard, since then he’s been good with some real low periods mixed in but nowhere near good enough to be safe from a sale where we can recoup a good fee. Same goes for all our senior players.
 
I totally get the reluctance to sell Bruno but it's generally better to sell early than late. And yes there is a risk that we misuse the money but truth be told in nearly 5 years Bruno hasn't been a source of success, he hasn't been more instrumental to our good periods than Rashford and I don't think many people would refuse to take a good fee for a 30 years old Rashford.
 
The Urban Goose said:
Were you a supporter during the SAF years? Beckham? Stam? Ronaldo? RVN? Numerous others?

There is always a time to cash in on a player and at 30 in September, this is probably the right time.

Besides, if ETH is staying and intends to play a 4-1-4-1, Bruno doesn't fit anyway.
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Those are not similar examples at all. All fell out with the manager apart from Ronaldo who wanted to leave to go to Madrid and we managed to get an extra year out of him. Selling one of your best players and your captain when there are other areas of the team to improve is braindead.
 
I think it would be right to let Bruno and Casemiro go. The latter has dropped off a cliff and I think it's a matter of time before the former does too. I also don't think he's ever really shown that he's going to reignited that form which he showed when he first joined. Since that period he's been incredibly patchy in form and I don't think he's reliable as a player to work in a tactically astute side.
 
TheGame said:
Those are not similar examples at all. All fell out with the manager apart from Ronaldo who wanted to leave to go to Madrid and we managed to get an extra year out of him. Selling one of your best players and your captain when there are other areas of the team to improve is braindead.
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Exactly. If Bruno had fallen out with the manager then fair enough, or been a crock, or was looking leggy ala Casamiro then fine. But he's hardly ever injured. Gives his all, and is nearly always our most creative outlet. But some people want to sell him. Sir Alex sold players from a position of strength where our team was stocked with quality players. This is not the same situation at all. Let's find the Bruno replacement first shall we who edges Bruno out of the team before we look to sell him for chump change.

JPRouve said:
I totally get the reluctance to sell Bruno but ...he hasn't been more instrumental to our good periods than Rashford and I don't think many people would refuse to take a good fee for a 30 years old Rashford.
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Rashford has been awful this season, great last and largely awful the season before. Even though Bruno has not been as electric as in his first couple of seasons.The real question should be who else in this team has contributed more to our good periods than Bruno? And the answer is a resounding noone, barring maybe De Gea who already left. Anyway I realise this is derailing a Casemiro thread, so will politely bow out, just like Casemiro should.
 
noelyman said:
Rashford has been awful this season, great last and largely awful the season before. Even though Bruno has not been as electric as in his first couple of seasons.The real question should be who else in this team has contributed more to our good periods than Bruno? And the answer is a resounding noone, barring maybe De Gea who already left.
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Rashford has contributed as much to our good periods, in fact we haven't had any good periods without either Rashord or Martial being huge contributors. And it's not say that Bruno hasn't been as impactful but that his best periods coincide with our other impactful attackers and as a group they drove our best periods. Otherwise we ended up with seasons similar to the current one where Bruno doesn't actually elevate the performances of "lesser" or "younger" players and don't get me wrong I'm pretty sure that Rashford and Martial wouldn't either which is why neither should ever be in the "never for sale" list.
 
tomaldinho1 said:
I don’t think we’re getting much for Case, so the bulk of that is Bruno. I really don’t think he’d command much more of a fee given his age and the reality that the last few seasons he’s not been as great as he was when he came. I still think he’ll stay but it would be prudent, in my opinion, to take a decent fee for him.
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For less than 50m he’d join Aston Villa before he goes to Saudi Arabia. The Saudis are not in the game to negotiate fair market value due to a player’s form fluctuating etc. Their ONLY leverage is obscene money. They would know a lot better than to come offering under 50m for Bruno, as if they are Real Madrid or something.
 
Rozay said:
For less than 50m he’d join Aston Villa before he goes to Saudi Arabia. The Saudis are not in the game to negotiate fair market value due to a player’s form fluctuating etc. Their ONLY leverage is obscene money. They would know a lot better than to come offering under 50m for Bruno, as if they are Real Madrid or something.
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I mean, you literally don't have a clue and neither do I but £50m isn't exactly an insane fee in today's football. No way he goes Villa, or similar, as they'd have to break their wage structure and do they even need someone like him?

I'd be amazed if United turned down anything over £35-£40m and he was keen to go.
 
tomaldinho1 said:
I mean, you literally don't have a clue and neither do I but £50m isn't exactly an insane fee in today's football. No way he goes Villa, or similar, as they'd have to break their wage structure and do they even need someone like him?

I'd be amazed if United turned down anything over £35-£40m and he was keen to go.
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I think I do have a clue that Bruno would go for more than 50m to a Saudi club, and if he were available for less than that, he wouldn’t go to Saudi at all.
 
tomaldinho1 said:
Are you Bruno?
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Do I need to be Bruno to know that his value, as the club captain and someone recently given a new 250k contract is not less than 50m? Your assertion that we should be hoping to get 50m for Bruno AND Casemiro is ludicrous.
 
Rozay said:
Do I need to be Bruno to know that his value, as the club captain and someone recently given a new 250k contract is not less than 50m? Your assertion that we should be hoping to get 50m for Bruno AND Casemiro is ludicrous.
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You are pertaining to know what he wants to do based off watching him in some interviews and on tv...we shall see this summer if they are both sold re fees.
 
tomaldinho1 said:
There won't be a 'replacement' though? The whole debate with Bruno is he's a bit unique in how he plays, we need to evolve the team and spread the goals around a lot more. Arsenal have the best GD in the league and yet their top scorer only has 16 goals, their forwards don't put up amazing numbers but they have so many ways to nick goals and that's how we get better. Gone are the days where you sign one player and they completely change your level.
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Bruno is not especially unique. He's similar to KDB. Also, Arsenal have their own version in Odegaard.

He would need to be replaced.
 
roseguy64 said:
Bruno is not especially unique. He's similar to KDB. Also, Arsenal have their own version in Odegaard.

He would need to be replaced.
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Genuinely, how are those three players similar bar they normally are listed as playing 10?
 
Bwuk said:
We need about 7 or 8 new starters, but it’d be a good move to sell our captain and best player.

Right…
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No I don't agree with selling Bruno. I'd rather keep him and sell a few of our other deadwood IMO but if he will be sold I have faith in our recruitment team to find a suitable replacement for him.
 
Bruno is 33 and he needs to replaced we eventually, I cannot see him at the top of his game in the next few years. I give him 2 years top, I think we should sell him for good money and start out rebuild. Amad as no.10 is an option, we should try it out next season and if it fails, then Amad should be sold. Amad is too technical to stick him to the right. It is better to put him in the middle so that he gets involved in the buildup.
 
r0663664 said:
Bruno is 33 and he needs to replaced we eventually, I cannot see him at the top of his game in the next few years. I give him 2 years top, I think we should sell him for good money and start out rebuild. Amad as no.10 is an option, we should try it out next season and if it fails, then Amad should be sold. Amad is too technical to stick him to the right. It is better to put him in the middle so that he gets involved in the buildup.
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Have I been alseep for a few years? Bruno hasn't hit 30 yet never mind 33
 
The Urban Goose said:
Were you a supporter during the SAF years? Beckham? Stam? Ronaldo? RVN? Numerous others?

There is always a time to cash in on a player and at 30 in September, this is probably the right time.

Besides, if ETH is staying and intends to play a 4-1-4-1, Bruno doesn't fit anyway.
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We had a team with 5 world class plus other good players left, when they were sold.

If Bruno sold, we have a few good kids, one good RB, and ...

But of course, any good offer needs to be considered. Only if it's good enough to buy a replacement and a few others.
 
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The Urban Goose said:
Were you a supporter during the SAF years? Beckham? Stam? Ronaldo? RVN? Numerous others?

There is always a time to cash in on a player and at 30 in September, this is probably the right time.

Besides, if ETH is staying and intends to play a 4-1-4-1, Bruno doesn't fit anyway.
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With your logic, Real Madrid are 8 years late to cashing-in on Modric... I wonder how many trophies he helped them win, in that time
 
Isotope said:
We had a team with 5 world class plus other good players left, when they were sold.

If Bruno sold, we have a few good kids, one good RB, and ...

But of course, any good offer needs to be considered. Only if it's good enough to buy a replacement and a few others.
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NewGlory said:
With your logic, Real Madrid are 8 years late to cashing-in on Modric... I wonder how many trophies he helped them win, in that time
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We needed open heart surgery 3 years ago, now we're in complete organ failure needing a heart transplant. Add to that the PSR rules and it's more important than ever to cash in at the right time.

As for comparing Bruno to Modric, don't be silly.

p.s. I know this place is polarised between "haters" and "fanbois" on every single issue these days, but I dont hate Bruno by any means, I think hes our best player, but we need to rebuild and we should be rebuilding around younger players than him.
 
Is this Casemiro out thread?

Anyway he's been a Schweinsteiger mark 2.

As for Bruno there's no rush in selling him. There are bout 8 players who should be sold before him. Problem is cafe has been on Bruno's case for ages.
 
Insanity said:
From Saudi? I would agree that we'd be lucky to get half of that from any other European club, but 40m-50m should be the minimum from a club in Saudi Arabia. They threw all kinds of money to acquire players last summer. I think Liverpool for ~40m for Fabinho, and Case is a much better and high profile player than him.
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Fabinho was probably on half the yearly salary, though. Made it easier for Liverpool to command a bigger fee.
 
r0663664 said:
I got it wrong, probably 2-3 more good years.
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Maybe even more, 29-30 is regarded as the start of a players peak in performance terms, Kevin DeBruyne is 32 and I don't see anyone calling for him to be sold or thinking he's past his best
 
Red in STL said:
Maybe even more, 29-30 is regarded as the start of a players peak in performance terms, Kevin DeBruyne is 32 and I don't see anyone calling for him to be sold or thinking he's past his best
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De Bruyne is past his best he is still a great player but his best seasons are a few years old, his peak was around 2019. Anyway the reason I would sell Bruno while he is in his prime is to maximize the return and move to a different profile.
 
r0663664 said:
Bruno is 33[/B] and he needs to replaced we eventually, I cannot see him at the top of his game in the next few years. I give him 2 years top, I think we should sell him for good money and start out rebuild. Amad as no.10 is an option, we should try it out next season and if it fails, then Amad should be sold. Amad is too technical to stick him to the right. It is better to put him in the middle so that he gets involved in the buildup.
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Huh?
 
JPRouve said:
De Bruyne is past his best he is still a great player but his best seasons are a few years old, his peak was around 2019. Anyway the reason I would sell Bruno while he is in his prime is to maximize the return and move to a different profile.
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He's played around half of PL games season and is second in assists, his highest ever assists in a season was last season (all games) - whilst assists aren't everything to suggest his best seasons are in the past is nonsense IMO
 
Red in STL said:
He's played around half of PL games season and is second in assists, his highest ever assists in a season was last season (all games) - whilst assists aren't everything to suggest his best seasons are in the past is nonsense IMO
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So his best seasons are in the future?

De Bruyne best seasons are definitely in the past, his ability to carry the ball as declined whether you use the eye test or stats, his assists per 90 were lower last season than 4 years ago, the same is true for his non penalty goals. De Bruyne is still great but he isn't as great as he was 4 to 5 years ago.
 
DWelbz19 said:
Fabinho was probably on half the yearly salary, though. Made it easier for Liverpool to command a bigger fee.
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Does that matter? Don't they give everyone in Saudi a hefty salary. That is the main reason why these players are going there. I believe that if Case goes there he is going to get upwards of 500k/week, which is more than he makes here. The same must have been true for Fabinho.
 
The Urban Goose said:
We needed open heart surgery 3 years ago, now we're in complete organ failure needing a heart transplant. Add to that the PSR rules and it's more important than ever to cash in at the right time.

As for comparing Bruno to Modric, don't be silly.

p.s. I know this place is polarised between "haters" and "fanbois" on every single issue these days, but I dont hate Bruno by any means, I think hes our best player, but we need to rebuild and we should be rebuilding around younger players than him.
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There will be time when we will need to move on, and Bruno has frustrated me many times in recent seasons, but like you said - he's our best player, and now is not the time. Not to mention - he is always available. You saw how shit we were when he missed two games.
 
NewGlory said:
There will be time when we will need to move on, and Bruno has frustrated me many times in recent seasons, but like you said - he's our best player, and now is not the time. Not to mention - he is always available. You saw how shit we were when he missed two games.
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I think it would be an interesting question if someone was offering 60M for Bruno and he was willing to go there, but if it's 40M for Bruno, it doesn't really seem worth it.

If the summer is say something like:

Toney
Decent #8 in his prime (to be passed by Mainoo in a couple years)
Expensive DM
Starting quality LB
Yoro/RCB
Very cheap RB

and we actually get the signings right for once, then it looks like a decent mix of a squad in terms of 1 veteran, 1 youngster up top, a couple young wingers in Garnacho and Amad and Rashford hopefully rebounding at least somewhat out wide, Bruno with 2 deeper midfielders and lots of minutes for Mainoo and some for Mount and a defensive sextet covering the 4 spots of LB-Shaw-Lisandro-Maguire-RCB-Dalot and I guess Malacia, Kambwalla and Evans and a cheap RB as depth.

We've seen that the young attackers (Hojlund, Garnacho, Amad) have talent but are simply not ready to carry the attack, so keeping Bruno and adding someone like Toney makes sense.

6 is a lot of signings, but if McTominay and Wan-Bissaka are sold to Prem teams for decent fees and Antony is off the wage bills (along with Martial, Varane and Casemiro), it should be doable considering Dalot's backup can be cheap or a loanee and Toney has one year to go.
 
Remember the geese said:
He doesn't say that.
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He also rejected reports that he’s unhappy at Man United and could move to Saudi Arabia.

But the Brazilian said: “I’m well, I’m happy, and every day I get to play here. As I usually say, Manchester United gave me what I wanted.

“This joy of being able to enjoy the game, enjoy the Premier League.

“So, I’m happy to be here at Manchester United and enjoying the game.”
 
keeping him if we have an ability to recoup a good chunk of it would be typical old manchester united. Would take a huge amount of the shine off this new ownership group and all the new upper staff if somehow we have EtH back next year, and are still lining up all the same players from this season.
 
Yakuza_devils said:
He also rejected reports that he’s unhappy at Man United and could move to Saudi Arabia.

But the Brazilian said: “I’m well, I’m happy, and every day I get to play here. As I usually say, Manchester United gave me what I wanted.

“This joy of being able to enjoy the game, enjoy the Premier League.

“So, I’m happy to be here at Manchester United and enjoying the game.”
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He may well stay. Though there's nothing in those quotes that are overly committal in my opinion.
 
His performance against Brighton at least gave some semblance of hope that he isn't completely physically done. Looked like someone with a point to prove. But I suppose it also begs the question of why he hasn't performed like that earlier this season.
 
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