Exactly, he was a terrible signing and typical of our failures over last decade. Silly fee and wages for a player that RM were keen to dump. Was always going to fade, we need to shift him and focus on building a team for future, not the past
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He's been one of our better signings but he just doesn't have the athleticism or desire to do what's needed of him at this stage of his career in this league. He would probably have some value if we only played him 20-30 times a season but we need to play him 50+ times a season and he just can't do it, but as you say, for the money and wages it's not worth it so just get him gone.
They’ve both won multiple titles for a start…
Stuff his value, we buy players to win football matches not make money.
What actually needs to happen is he needs to be rotated regularly and not be run into the ground carrying a team that can only dream of his level.
That would be valid if he wasn't on daft wages, but he is so he needs to go while he still has places to go.
Not every signing has to be a some epic 6-10 years of service to be classed as a success. Casemiro got United back into the CL (with help from Rashford) in his first year. If he can do it again this season then credit to him.
He was always going to be a stop gap signing and if he moves on in the summer for a decent fee then I have no issues with his signing at all.
He was always going to be a stop gap signing and if he moves on in the summer for a decent fee then I have no issues with his signing at all.
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Yeah that's key, and if that happens I don't disagree with your first point. If not though, and either he leaves for peanuts or ends up a squad player on massive wages then it's a dreadful signing.
Given we made the move for him before selling players to Saudi for absurd prices was a nice get out of jail free card, I'd argue it was a bad piece of business at the time.
Anyone know how profitable it was for United to make the CL this year? I would argue there was no way we'd be in this competition without him, so there is that. He's also still one of our best offensive players and you can see how our goal production has gone south without him.
He missed 7 games alone last season due to suspension. In such a pivotal position do we want to be rotating regularly. 2 problems with that suggestion, 1) ETH has clearly shown he's not a manager for rotating.2) We don't have enough quality to rotate in his position. We can't go out and buy some top quality centre mid and say "hey you and big Cas will share that role". He's a 60-70 million quid player on top wages, for that outlay you need a player like that featuring in the majority of your games. The PL is so competitive, bar maybe a few teams you need as good as you can field in most games. I don't see too many top managers rotating regularly players in the spine of their team.
We literally signed him last season.
He’s the best midfielder we’ve had in years. Apologies for the confusion.
I'm not convinced he'll be around to help with that, at this point.
Varane and Casemiro both could wind up going to Saudi in January.
Apparently before he signed he said "i'll sort it out" referring to our midfield problems. Guess it's too much of a task even for a 4 time champions league winner 
I often wonder how different things might have been if De Jong had signed instead. You never know, they might have been worse but i'm curious how much different our style might have been.
I often wonder how different things might have been if De Jong had signed instead. You never know, they might have been worse but i'm curious how much different our style might have been.
Obviously the truth of this report is disputed, but if his head has been turned, then we should ship him in Jan. Get the fee and reinvest, hopefully under a new footballing structure.
I thought about that too... Good chance, we'd have a clearer picture of what ETH wants to create stilistically but I think, there is a good chance, we wouldn't have had such a "good" first season. The first season saw us switching to a more transitional approach quickly after the first two games. Such a move was on because we still had Bruno and Rash who flourish in those conditions and the rest of the team was mostly capable of that too. It even helped Eriksen to bed in. Casemiro coming in was also in line with that, I think, he is capable for other styles as well but a rather compact team suits him quite well. With FDJ in the team, it would have made sense to get more expansive, more technical. I think, a transitional play would have been possible with him as well - but I think, it would be a bit of a waste of his strengths (while Casemiro showed his defensive abilities and everybody was happy to finally have a capable defensive midfielder in there).Apparently before he signed he said "i'll sort it out" referring to our midfield problems. Guess it's too much of a task even for a 4 time champions league winner
I often wonder how different things might have been if De Jong had signed instead. You never know, they might have been worse but i'm curious how much different our style might have been.
At the end of the day, midfields are always about combinations of players. Only adding one great player doesn't change much all of a sudden, if it doesn't fit. I think with FDJ instead of Casemiro, we'd lack phyiscality (I think, we do lack that right now too because Casemiro looked a bit off the pace. But this might also be emphasized by ETHs adjustments in terms of game plan). The best combinations are probably the ones where you have specialists that also chip in in all other categories. A defensive midfielder who is really good at winning the ball but is also good on the ball to keep things going. An attacking midfielder who is great at creating chances but also isn't completely out of the picture when things get tough. I think, this is what held us back all those years. We had players who had their strength but their weak areas were really weak. Like Fred, who had fantastic workrate and energy but was so unreliable on the ball. Or Pogba who was able to ping balls everywhere but had no real idea about defensive positioning.
That's what the press are saying, especially about Varane who is, allegedly, upset and falling below Jonny Evans in the pecking order. Of course I don't believe much that is published by the red tops but the lure of a Saudi pay day in a less demanding climate must be attractive to players coming to the end of their careers.
I'm assuming he (and all of us) thought it was as sign of things to come. At that time we were still in the Europa, FA and looking to be locks to make CL. Now it seems like we're further than ever, again.
When is he back? It would be great to see him alongside Mainoo but i'm hearing he won't be back till mid-Jan which is terrible. Hope its wrong!
Him and Martinez are 6 weeks away.
Where does that come from?
Jesus… we need them 6 weeks earlier, in fact
He's been out for 5 weeks already and not expected back before xmas which is another 3 weeks away, anyone what is the injury as over 8 weeks for a hamstring seems more then excessive?
Depends on the severity. It must've been a complete tear of the hamstring, in which case it's not unusual to be out for 3 months.
I still maintain that he will be back to his best if he loses the extra pounds he's carrying. We can still get 3 more years out of him if he manages himself properly.
People need just take a quick look at Varane before writing off last seasons best player. It’s tough for anyone to be at their best when the team is dysfunctional and out of form.
There’s simply no way Cas suddenly went to shit over the course of a single summer break.
There’s simply no way Cas suddenly went to shit over the course of a single summer break.
Considering our tactical set up in which he was a lone DM you would be hard pressed to find anyone who can play that role effectively. Now that we have Mainoo we can pair them and the youngster will take care of Casemiro's limitations in the first phase build up whilst he will teach him the nuances of central midfield defensive play.
Asking him to cover all that space alone was always asking for trouble. We either need to abandon the tactic altogether and embrace the good old 4-2-3-1 or we need to embrace it fully - highline, inverting fullbacks, AMs who can keep the ball etc. Picking and choosing what we are comfortable with due to lack of pace is leaving us with holes in the midfield and a defense that's always under pressure.
No way, this is as good as it gets. His longs are gone, why RM sold him. Its damage limitation from here onwards
He actually went to shit long before the summer break. Started the season unable to get into the team, then gradually improved to reach peak form in time for the World Cup (which, as someone else pointed out, probably wasn’t a coincidence) then steep decline from there.
All we can do is hope that last season’s trajectory wasn’t all about a player being only properly motivated for the WC and he’s just a slow starter (and finisher) so his best this season is yet to come.
When is he expected back from injury?
I don’t believe that his legs have gone yet. He’s 31 not 36
What we’ve been asking him to do tactically this season was madness. Hopefully we see a double pivot moving forward and that will bring out the best in him
What we’ve been asking him to do tactically this season was madness. Hopefully we see a double pivot moving forward and that will bring out the best in him
Not sure that's true, he had his best form after the World Cup till the League Cup final. I think he started his steep decline after his 2nd red card.
Casemiro was still brilliant for Real the season before they sold him and they have an enviable set of midfielders including some of the best young talent in Camavinga and Tchouameni. They could afford to let him go. Doesn’t mean he was exactly way past it - hence why he had a largely excellent first season for us.
Even if his legs have gone, I refuse to believe he still isn’t capable of being at least a tier above our other midfield options. Will be interesting to see him paired with Mainoo. There’s other midfielders I’d shift over Case.
He came back this season unfit and carried on the form he showed in the latter half of last season. Tactics didn't help of course. My concern when he returns is how long it takes him to get match fit, he's been a slow starter in his 2 seasons here. If he could get back that form he showed in the middle part of last season, I feel he and Mainoo could form a good partnership and give us that stability and shape we seem to be missing in midfield these days.
Fair enough. My memory is of a decline which started a bit earlier. But my memory is not very reliable!
Definitely. I think people are sleeping on casemiro a bit here, mostly because people seem to want to write the season off. But he is probably the all time great in his position, and is not even 32 yet.
Everyone here sees anything above 29 as ancient and soon as a player in and around 30 there is no such thing as bad form, they've actually just "lost their legs".
Such a weird post, it’s as though he wasn’t one of our two best players last season.
Reading between the lines of today's press conference he could be back for the FA Cup 3rd tie v Wigan.
Probably because we`ve been here before. He could have more to offer, feckin hope so, but he would not be the first player in history to lose that spring in his step at this age. When was the last time he looked world class for us? Barcelona in february? It is a rather long time now..
No one has though, so why is it that he lost his legs but not Rashford?
There is just a weird panic here around anyone who is close to 30 when they should have a lot more in the tank. Fernandinho was at City until he was like 38 and Thiago Silva is still playing week in week out at 39. He may lose it, he may not - I think our set up is shocking and has been a nightmare for whoever plays in midfield. At least he was contributing in some way and was our top scorer before his injury so I wouldn't have him down as finished.
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