Bruno would have been a rotational player in a good Ferguson team. I don't think that he would have been any different than a Nani.
Cantona v Bruno
- Thread starter Oscar Bonavena
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Bruno would have been a rotational player in a good Ferguson team. I don't think that he would have been any different than a Nani.
I'm not sure if you are being smart, but kicking a racist isn't the same thing as beating up your partner and coercing her into sex with violence.
It's a hypothetical but I'm sure Fergie would have time for a player that can play all the time, never gets injured, usually gets a goal or assist and always looks to play it forward. Fergie wasn't obsessed with possession to the extent we are now.
If we’re trying to find flaws in Eric, he wasn’t always overly involved in the defensive phase of the game — he was a brutal tackler and I’ve even seen him cover fullback position in transition a few times but it was an exception, not the norm.
That’s it. Cantona’s biggest strength — being able to step up in the most important games, leading by example is also the area where Bruno lacks the most. When he first came in from Sporting he looked like this Robson/Cantona figure that was able to single-handedly win games while improving everyone else around him but turned out he was a less talented version of Gerrard — a perpetual risk-taker who’s going to able to win you games on his day but will hurt you massively when he’s not. He’s too good to get dropped but not good enough to lead us to long-terms success, forcing us into this weird limbo.
I don’t think that he’s our main problem by the way but he’s indicative of it.
That’s it. Cantona’s biggest strength — being able to step up in the most important games, leading by example is also the area where Bruno lacks the most. When he first came in from Sporting he looked like this Robson/Cantona figure that was able to single-handedly win games while improving everyone else around him but turned out he was a less talented version of Gerrard — a perpetual risk-taker who’s going to able to win you games on his day but will hurt you massively when he’s not. He’s too good to get dropped but not good enough to lead us to long-terms success, forcing us into this weird limbo.
I don’t think that he’s our main problem by the way but he’s indicative of it.
More or less this, I think Fergie would have live Bruno but I doubt he'd be ahead of Rooney at SS or something similar. Bruno would be a great player when we were throwing the kitchen sink at teams.
It's not for this thread and people are probably tired of the topic or at least don't want to be negative about someone that is objectively a good player but to some extent he is the main problem not due to his abilities but because as you put it, his presence create a weird limbo and because he is a good footballer the club didn't move away from him as a center piece. In my opinion if you consider him as a foundational piece than you are stuck with an immovable second striker/central very attacking midfielder that isn't a dribbler, isn't fast, isn't really a game manager and isn't physically strong. The only clear parallel I can think about is a young Muller with Bayern, where they successfully surrounded him with Ribéry, Robben and Olic. Now Muller expended his game to a point where he turned into a very good game manager and playmaking attacking midfielder which is something that Bruno failed to do.
Cantona v Rooney would be a better comparison. Bruno is nowhere near.
On that comparison. Am I misremembering or Rooney had the ability to raise his level for big games even when he was in a slump?
Yes he did.
Even non season ticket holders had almost absolute exposure to Cantona.
Utd European games were always on
The BBC/ITV would show domestic cups
And it was only very rare that sky wouldn’t have them on at the wknd.
Comparing the two is night and day. Almost embarrassing. Cantona was unbelievable.
There’s a good reason, why, after 27 years since his departure, you can still hear appreciation from the stands.
Utd European games were always on
The BBC/ITV would show domestic cups
And it was only very rare that sky wouldn’t have them on at the wknd.
Comparing the two is night and day. Almost embarrassing. Cantona was unbelievable.
There’s a good reason, why, after 27 years since his departure, you can still hear appreciation from the stands.
Bruno is nowhere near. Cantona transformed us. Whenever we were shite he would do something technically impressive with a sense of nonchalantness that made everyone around him think they were better than they were. The more he touched the ball, the better we became as a team. He embodied what we wanted to become as a club at that time and lifted players around him. He was much more than a brilliant player. There's a reason he is the King.
Bruno has been our best signing since SAF left but Cantona was another level entirely. I lived through this era and the difference he made was absolutely staggering. I've never seen a team so transformed by a single player, and I've never seen a player with such an aura about him. Felt like he walked in and took the entire club by the scruff of the neck.
I wonder if even SAF would've expected him to have the level of impact he did.
My favourite player, now, then and forever. We'll never see the like again.
I wonder if even SAF would've expected him to have the level of impact he did.
My favourite player, now, then and forever. We'll never see the like again.
I forgot the reason. Why did Leeds sell Cantona to us back then?
It's like Barcelona selling Messi to Real Madrid and finishing 17th in the following season.
Slept with 3 players wives / girlfriends allegedly.
Rooney was such a weird player in that sense. He could have a dogshit run of games and next thing you know a big game comes up and he easily looks like the best player on the pitch on a pitch filled with great players.
To compare him to Bruno, Rooney could be having a stinker but not lose his head to the extent he becomes a liability to the team. He would press, toe the line with a second booking and be aggressive but you still felt it being of use to the team even if he was dreadful on the ball that day. When Bruno loses his head you want him off the pitch immediately because he’s as much of a liability off the ball than on the ball and that’s saying something.
Cantona is reverse Bruno. You must look at impact on team:
Leeds won the league season he played for them
United won league every full season he played ending 27 year drought. Then didnt win league season he didnt finish and season he retired.
Sporting actually won league season after they sold him. United performed better in five years pre-Bruno to 5 years with him.
(14/15 - 18/19)
Pts 352 GF 298 GA 183 GDF 115 Trophies 3 Av Pos 4.6
(19/20 - 23/24)
Pts 333 GF 314 GA 232 GDF 82 Trophies 2 Av Pos 4.4
Whilst end results are somewhat similar I feel a player in the mould of Bruno destabilises a team which leads to lesser GDF and impacts on overall team performance even when playing well individually. It must also be stressed that Bruno hasnt played well consistently since first 18 months, in fact hes been more bad than good since and very terrible this season.
Cantona is night versus the day.
Leeds won the league season he played for them
United won league every full season he played ending 27 year drought. Then didnt win league season he didnt finish and season he retired.
Sporting actually won league season after they sold him. United performed better in five years pre-Bruno to 5 years with him.
(14/15 - 18/19)
Pts 352 GF 298 GA 183 GDF 115 Trophies 3 Av Pos 4.6
(19/20 - 23/24)
Pts 333 GF 314 GA 232 GDF 82 Trophies 2 Av Pos 4.4
Whilst end results are somewhat similar I feel a player in the mould of Bruno destabilises a team which leads to lesser GDF and impacts on overall team performance even when playing well individually. It must also be stressed that Bruno hasnt played well consistently since first 18 months, in fact hes been more bad than good since and very terrible this season.
Cantona is night versus the day.
Do Giggs vs Obertan next
Cantona is eons better. Fernandes might well be the most overrated player we’ve had if people think this is even close
Lad, no wonder he linked up well with Giggs.
The thing with Cantona was that, as a good a player as he was, he was an even better signing. Exactly the right player for the right club at the right time, providing exactly what the team needed.
If I was ranking players from the SAF era, there would be a few I would place ahead of him. But if I was ranking signings from the SAF era, or icons from the SAF era, or how influential players from the SAF were in the club's fortunes, then Cantona would be near the top of those lists.
The point being that context matters. And whatever might be said about Bruno as a player, the context he arrived into was very different. Maybe he never had it in him to be that influential a figure in a PL winning United team, but even if he did we were never going to see it as the United he landed into was far from the one primed for success that Cantona brought up that crucial extra gear.
If I was ranking players from the SAF era, there would be a few I would place ahead of him. But if I was ranking signings from the SAF era, or icons from the SAF era, or how influential players from the SAF were in the club's fortunes, then Cantona would be near the top of those lists.
The point being that context matters. And whatever might be said about Bruno as a player, the context he arrived into was very different. Maybe he never had it in him to be that influential a figure in a PL winning United team, but even if he did we were never going to see it as the United he landed into was far from the one primed for success that Cantona brought up that crucial extra gear.
Might have been. But those absolute statements are shallow given that there is no way to prove it. Not every player worked out for Fergie, thinking of Veron, Young, Anderson. What speaks for Bruno would be that he seems like a player from the late 2000, good workrate, great instincts, never get discouraged.
I think, it is more to do that losing possession wasn't as risky as it is today, given the different levels of defense (specifically for the United example) and the level of organisation. I think, possession was a factor for Fergie, in the years I witnessed, I think it was notable, that United was very good on the ball but also without it. They adapted to the opponent in that regard and following that aspect, I can imagine SAF could have been upset by a player that is giving the ball away too cheaply at the wrong moment in time.
Cantona was obviously the (much) better player, but Bruno would have looked great in that team, and Cantona might have struggled in this team.
I think to some degree this is a bit like De Bruyne vs Bruno. Sure, De Bruyne is the better player, but switch the clubs they play for and Bruno will look better than De Bruyne.
To some degree, that is why I have lots of respect for Gerrard and Totti. For over a decade, they looked very good despite playing for shit teams.
I think to some degree this is a bit like De Bruyne vs Bruno. Sure, De Bruyne is the better player, but switch the clubs they play for and Bruno will look better than De Bruyne.
To some degree, that is why I have lots of respect for Gerrard and Totti. For over a decade, they looked very good despite playing for shit teams.
Few more wrote this. Are you all sure?
I am not.
Imagine Bruno doing stupid back heel flick in our penalty area! What happens? Keano would chop his head off.
Imagine Bruno passing ball to oppo players all the time. You can name 7,8 players who are shouting at him, not in a very nice way.
Imagine him moaning, whining like a little bitch. I can imagine tongue lashing he would have recieved from everybody.
On the bench until he grows up.
Squad player at best.
The early Bruno could follow Paul Scholes's trajectory under a proper manager. They have similar strong points (Bruno has more weak points to his game, though).
According to what, exactly?
Bruno and Cantona shouldn't even be in the same sentence.
Cantona is king.
That's all that needs to be said.
That's all that needs to be said.
Yep, Cantona had that God-like status that comes from being exceptionally talented, and different from the rest. But also;
a) a certain personality (see Zlatan), and
b) his early, shock retirement meant no inevitable decline was seen, and it was done on his terms. ‘Always leave them needing more’, as they say.
In the first 18 months, it felt like Bruno could be a similar figure, which was really exciting, now far from it. I'm delusional though and still hold out hope that he will get back to those levels.
Yeah, think those early squads especially would eat him alive if he didn't change his ways.
But you just put them in the same sentence
As an outsider (who grew up watching SAF’s teams live on TV) I think it’s possible, maybe even likely, that the opposite is true.
Bruno is rated mainly because of his excellent end product. I’d argue that his goals and assists derived from him being the main man in a team that is currently not at the very top.
Play has been funnelled through him since joined. That simply wouldn’t be the case if he were playing with Cantona, Scholes, or Rooney.
Firstly, he’d rarely be on the pitch as he wouldn’t make the starting lineup (unless we’re talking about the very late SAF era where he neglected your midfield… but still somehow managed to win major trophies).
Secondly, even when he did manage to get a few minutes, he wouldn’t be the focal point of the team that he is now. And his teammates wouldn’t indulge him to losing possession as much as he does now, which would also drastically reduce his output (though it might actually make him a better all round player).
The only people he’s been known to have given a whack to are that racist d1ckhead at Palace, and some low life paparazzi who’d been following him around, no? He goes up in my estimation for both of those.
He could definitely have quiet games and could occasionally be erratic but I think oppo fans were always very scared that he could produce something out of nothing and win the game for us. He had a real knack of doing that, particularly in the league.
The Newcastle game in 96 was a great example. You had Schmeichal keeping us in the game on his own, Keane fighting for everything in midfield and Cantona was the quietest man on the pitch. Then suddenly he scores the goal that wins us the game. He just had that aura that he could win a game with a moment even if he was quiet. Bruno by contrast is more chaotic and tries to force the issue.
Exactly.
Was shocked to see this thread, to be honest. Can’t believe someone put those two names together. Really?
I think the Leeds chairman rang Martin Edwards enquiring about signing a United player (can't remember who) but whoever it was wasn't for sale.
Fergie was in Edwards' office and said to Edwards "ask him about Cantona". Leeds weren't having a good season and there were rumours Howard Wilkinson wasn't get on with Cantona. Instead of telling Edwards to get stuffed, the Leeds chairman said "let me get back to you". So it was obvious Leeds were willing to listen to offers and get Cantona off their hands, his relationship with Wilkinson had broken down.
Leeds came back later and accepted an offer of just under a million, but Fergie said that Leeds asked that the fee be reported as 1.1m or something to make it more palatable to the Leeds fans who would be going mental!
A piece of opportunist genius from Fergie and absolute steal of the century!
Read the thread.