I think one solution is to stop talking about anything particularly complex on the internet. Keep your opinions to yourself and just treat people how they'd like to treated.
Cancel Culture
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) and Imran (@Annihilate Now!) are here to discuss three 1-1 draws.
The first got us knocked out of the FA Cup, the next puts us in a good position in our Round of 16 Europa League game, and the latest was an actual decent performance against Arsenal at Old Trafford.
All hopes for the season now rest on the Europa League - does Amorim have the squad to win it?
Sorry but this is wrong. The story is that as a straight white bloke you won the demographic lottery and are privileged, and at the same time you're being exploited by the rich who are pulling the ladder up behind them but because you're privileged, then think how much harder those who aren't straight white males have it. You're impacted by the rich, others are impacted by that and more. The rules for every day life were written in your favour. That doesn't mean your life has to be easy, it just means literally that the rules were written in your favour, and so some other people not only have to overcome the same difficulties that you do, but they also have the odds stacked against them from the beginning in ways that you simply do not. If you did, your life would be way the feck harder and you'd probably be pissed off about it too.
The fact that people from poor single parent council estates don't understand what their privilege is and just assume it means their life is easy/great and don't understand how despite them being poor they're still privileged is their own ignorance to resolve. Unfortunately, people don't have the inclination to simply ask how is it that they're privileged so that they can learn and become better people. They just get defensive about their own personal situation while missing the point that black people as an example who are also in the same boat as them and suffer all the same hardships they suffer, have additional hardships on top of that that the white poor person simply does not face and therefore is privileged.
Nope. I had non-white friends when I was a teenager in the West Midlands but Brighton is white as feck. We have a lot of immigrants but they're all EU.
Come on @DOTA take the bait goddamn it.
I agree with that, that wasn't why I made the difference. Ethnicity is definitely a social construct while I think racial identity is more personal, it's something that someone can interpret individually.
On that topic, when I was 12-13 years old a woman asked me what race I was and I answerd Homo Sapiens Sapiens, the look on her face was amusing.
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Thanks. Mad world.
No worries, I just kinda waded into the discussion. But if you get a chance to watch the video it's very enlightening.
I just watched the first 10 minutes. Then skipped to the conclusion. It’s a nice wee vid but certainly wouldn’t convince me that race is a made up thing. Skin colour is only one differentiator between races. There are plenty of others too. Ultimately, it doesn’t really matter, as we all share common ancestors. So I guess that’s maybe the point? But take that to its logical conclusion and then you could say that species are a made up thing too.
Fair enough. I’m old enough that my friends parents are boomers, the craziest of the crazy’s. When it comes to extreme religious conservatism, my friends who have the most issues with parents that have problematic opinions have all been non-white.
Homo sapiens sapiens are literally all of us alive on the planet. We are all one subspecies. It is not remotely the same as including homo neanderthalensis or whatever other group you would postulate.
@Soph, thanks a lot for the links. I will check them when I have time (dunno when, and don't want to spend a full day on Jordan Peterson), but will come back to you. As prior belief, I guess you are right though, still would be interesting to check them and get my opinion on this.
I would contest that skin colour is the main differentiator and the reason behind the creation of the notion of race (they look different from us and therefore must be a different sub-class of humans). Anyway, the short version isn't as good as the full documentary, which goes into more detail.
Yeah, that was a bad analogy. Races are a real thing though. With important consequence. When you design clinical trials to test a drug you ideally don’t want to recruit people who are all the same race. As then you can’t be sure you’ll get the same results in different populations. The Japanes regulators insist drugs are tested in Japan before licensing them, for this reason.
It’s no biggie though. Racial differences are great. The world would be a very boring place if we all looked the same.
This point is you are talking about populations and not race. Race is an invented and unscientific way of classifying populations. If medical science took race seriously they'd be putting hugely different populations in the same group.
These differences are simply the product of environment and location, though, are they not? i.e. groups of humans who live in the same area and breed together over time will share common characteristics.
I’m really not talking about populations. There’s really good evidence that doctor’s should make certain different treatment decisions for black vs white people, whether they’re living in the US, UK, or Kazakhtan.
If race is ‘real’ what on earth are you defining it as and can you please explain the various racial groups that exist and the evidence you are using to form that opinion? The concept of race as anything other than a social construct has already been falsified by the field of genetics so it will be interesting to see how you define it. At this point believing that race has any scientific or biological meaning is as scientifically illiterate as denying evolution.
Sure. And as soon as they stop breeding together they have mixed race children.
That's because the majority of black people in those countries come from a certain population, due to slavery. It's not because all sub-saharan Africans are more similar to each other than they are to other 'races'.
But you don't need to assume the existence of races to explain what you are talking about. A restricted genetic pool will explain it, in fact if I'm not mistaken there is more relevance in ethnic differentiators which again is easily explained by the fact that ethnic communities will mainly live in closed circles and share certain genetic traits through generations and that doesn't make a race. In fact Africa and it's thousands of ethnicities has more genetic diversity than anywhere else and it's not surprising when you consider how Africa is socially structured.
https://www.nationalgeographic.com/news/2017/10/genetics-history-race-neanderthal-rutherford/
So you’re saying ‘White’ and ‘Black’ is a race?
fecking hell has this forum travelled back to the 19th Century. It’s embarrassing people still peddle ideas which have been so overwhelmingly falsified by actual science.Sorry but you’re talking out of your uber-woke hole on this one.
That’s a great way of avoiding answering the questions I posed. If you believe race exists it should be real easy to answer my questions. So please do.
First sentence is true. More or less. The second sentence isn’t even close to what I’m suggesting.
I don't know what you are suggesting. I know what other people who say things like that are suggesting.
I would give this post a like, but this isnt Facebook and Im not a mod, so guess it means feck all.
Well worded and my thoughts exactly. Hat's off to you sir.
I do not own a hat.
No they shouldn't. There is evidence that they should for example isolate west Africans but that doesn't apply to east, central or south Africans who should have their own categories and sub categories.
I’m using race and ethnicity interchangeably, as I don’t think the difference matters to the point I’m making. Ditto with my use of “black” and “white”. I would have thought that a wee bit of charity and common sense would get what I mean, without crucifying me over semantics. Although this would be the perfect thread for that to happen!
But yeah, a restricted genetic pool is the most important factor for biological differences between “races”. Ashkenazi jews have some really interesting genetic quirks, likewise Irish travellers (who have extremely rare metabolic disorders) mainly down to an extremely restricted gene pool.
On a larger scale, the differences are more subtle but they’re still important. At the end of the day it’s preposterous to try and claim that races/ethnicities that have phenotypical differences that are blatantly obvious to the naked eye don’t have important differences “under the hood” as as well. Almost as preposterous as the idea that these differences don’t exist at all.
Yep. In the West we happen to have a huge number of folk from the west coast of Africa, from a few groups, because of the way slavery was done. That of course means there are genetic conditions that are more likely to be found in 'black people' than in 'white people' in countries whose black population is a legacy of slavery.
Cancel culture has been around for ages, and so has "identity politics", they're just thought of badly now that they are being used against a certain type
I'm thinking Alan Dershowitz getting DePaul University to deny Norman Finkelstein tenure. Richard Dawkins saying he didn't think the New Statesman should let Mehdi Hasan be a columnist with them. Or my first re-collection of cancel culture being Richard Dawkins was trying to get Ben Stein deplatformed, and then according to Rebecca Watson he wanted to only attend atheist/secular conferences if she wasn't there.
Or how the right treated the Dixie Chicks after their comments on Bush. That's not forgetting the attempts to ban the Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions (BDS) campaign worldwide too. Largely from the right side of the political spectrum.
CNN compiled a great Trump list of cancel culture recently that made me think of this
https://edition.cnn.com/2020/07/07/...mp-cancel-culture-boycotts-firings/index.html
Heck even those saying it used to be a right wing problem, now its majority on the left - even that I don't believe fully.
I'm thinking Alan Dershowitz getting DePaul University to deny Norman Finkelstein tenure. Richard Dawkins saying he didn't think the New Statesman should let Mehdi Hasan be a columnist with them. Or my first re-collection of cancel culture being Richard Dawkins was trying to get Ben Stein deplatformed, and then according to Rebecca Watson he wanted to only attend atheist/secular conferences if she wasn't there.
Or how the right treated the Dixie Chicks after their comments on Bush. That's not forgetting the attempts to ban the Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions (BDS) campaign worldwide too. Largely from the right side of the political spectrum.
CNN compiled a great Trump list of cancel culture recently that made me think of this
https://edition.cnn.com/2020/07/07/...mp-cancel-culture-boycotts-firings/index.html
Heck even those saying it used to be a right wing problem, now its majority on the left - even that I don't believe fully.
Maybe. But people who know a hell of a lot more about this than you and I seem comfortable with classifying “African-American“ as a category of patients with their own unique therapeutic needs (they also use “black” and “white” liberally in that publication - stone them!).
The UK equivalent would be “Afro-Caribbean” I presume that mainly means West African descent but they don’t seem to think it matters whether or not this population would be exclusively of that heritage.
This is a good rebuttal to those who draw fallacious conclusions from different approaches to different demographics in medicine. It's from a Professor of Biological Anthropology and the Dean of Faculty at Hampshire College. He also served as president of the American Anthropological Association from 2005 to 2007. But I'm guessing he's talking out his woke areshole too? Apparently it's woke to believe in science now guys.
See my post.
And if most people who had a moustache were from a few groups in Eastern Europe they would be using moustaches as the definition.
- Race Is a Social Construct, Scientists Argue, from Scientific American.
- How Science and Genetics are Reshaping the Race Debate of the 21st Century, Harvard University.
- Is Race Real?, American Scientist.
- There’s No Scientific Basis for Race—It's a Made-Up Label, National Geographic.
- Race Is Real, But It’s Not Genetic, Sapiens.
- Biology of Race, Biology Reference.
- Race: a Biological or Social Concept, Kwabi-Addo B. (2017) Race: a Biological or Social Concept. In: Health Outcomes in a Foreign Land. Springer, Cham
- Biological Races in Humans, Templeton A. R. (2013). Biological races in humans. Studies in history and philosophy of biological and biomedical sciences, 44(3), 262–271. https://doi.org/10.1016/j.shpsc.2013.04.010
- THE RISE AND FALL OF THE BIOLOGICAL CONCEPT OF RACE, Omoto, K. (1997). THE RISE AND FALL OF THE BIOLOGICAL CONCEPT OF RACE. Japan Review, (9), 65-73. Retrieved July 8, 2020, from www.jstor.org/stable/25791001
@Soph I've not seen you around before and your username is a thing I associate mainly with a neo-nazi teenage girl on Youtube. This is gonna take some getting over.
I know and I hate it, I've heard what happens if I ask for a change though.
Treating people how they like to be treated is a good advice and people should do so.
Keeping the opinions to yourself is kinda bullshit though. There is the freedom of speech thingy. And also, only some opinions seem to be needed to be kept to yourself, with a vocal minority deciding what are those opinions.
Sure but it's called race because of our innate need to classify things. At the basic level we are all homo sapiens sapiens with minor variations in our DNA.
He can't lose face now so he's going to continue to peddle his pseudoscience in spite of the overwhelming evidence and scientific consensus against his view. There is as strong a consensus on this within the field of genetics and biology as there is about evolution. The idea it's simply 'woke' nonsense only shows how woefully ill-informed some people still are.
She's a nasty bully. Putting aside the rights and wrongs of the definitions of sex/gender row, the way she goes at people and with the following she has is despicable, not to mention the hate accounts she promotes and encourages.