I thought how Andrew Doyle defined it quite well in this interview whatever you think of him.
Cancel Culture
- Thread starter Buchan
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I thought how Andrew Doyle defined it quite well in this interview whatever you think of him.
No need to apologise for writing too much. Its a conversation, if we could boil it down to one or two lines of a quick sentence it wouldnt be worth much.
I agree with you on the point that people have always found themselves on the outs when society doesnt agree with them. Theres far too many examples of it, but we both agree on it so need for them. Where we seem to be differing is that Iam seeing that weaponized on twitter. So while people have often found themselves on the business end of a societal hissy fit, society has also shown to shrug it off and move on. Michael Jackson had kids sleeping in his bed. Society hated him for it. David Bowie had sex with 13 year old groupies, everyone still loves him and has not a bad word to say. society is a weird animal, and picks and chooses its battles in a weird way too. But with the advent of the internet you are seeing people taking up the mantle to try and influence society. You made the point that Gina Carano said offensive stuff. And I would ask what did she say? Because everything Ive seen that she posted was pretty tame. And what wasnt is what will be in my next point. Which Im going to place into a separate paragraph to spare your eyes a bit of strain.
Context and nuance. Victims of this new world of social media and on line arguments. What you meant to say doesnt matter. Only what someone else can twist into what you said. Gina Carano got 6 months worth of abuse. Death threats, rape threats blah blah blah. She endured this while trying to fight it, which in itself was kinda dumb as she was never winning that battle. The post that got her fired was speaking about how the nazis got the neighbours of Jews to beat them in the street. To create a normalised world where treating a jew in horrific ways was acceptable. But when she was then accused of saying was that she was equating republicans to jews in nazi Germany. Which she wasnt. You can say that she was wrong, you can even say that society wasnt ready to hear what she had to say like with Colin. But the tactics used are the same. Twist what was actually said to paint a false narrative and then use that narrative to strong arm employers. The employers themselves arent the issue. Like you said, they are reacting to what is good for business. It would be nice if they had a bit more back bone, but thats for another topic.
So one hand you have a history of people like Mel Gibson who was ostracized before it was cool and you then you have Gina. Mel was guilty of what he did, whether you accept his apology and reasoning behind what he did is up to each of us. But Gina, well all she did was say no to the twitter mob. And they came after her for it. And you can say that she should just have walked away. But to that I would ask if you would give the same advice to Rashford when he gets racist abuse on twitter? Some people dont want to back down from bullies. And thats what twitter is. A bunch of bullies making shit up and spreading it around about people they dont like. And then when the person refuses to back down they get death threats etc.
After the last of us part 2 came out, Laura Bailey got a lot of death threats and rape threats because she voiced a character in a game some people didnt like. Why are we excusing death threats and rape threats against Gina, but defending Laura? Should we, as a society not be standing up for both? Are we really at a place where having a shitty opinion makes it ok to threaten to rape and kill peoples? I saw that footballer thing that they did last week, I think its was last week. And it was footballers reading out the tweets that they had been sent. One of them really stood out to me. "I know where your kids go to school.". That is twitter. That kind of horrible, nasty shit trying to bully people into doing stuff. Maybe its quitting, maybe its getting someone fired. But that kind of thing, should never ever be accepted. And yet here we are. Where we see football players take a knee every week to highlight that black people are human beings follow 90 minutes later by twitter posts calling them racist names because they had a bad game.
Twitter is a cesspool. And one of its tools is cancelling people they dont like. If you made it this far, thanks for reading. We can now just agree to disagree and enjoy the rest of our nights. Im off to watch Coming 2 America with some dinner. You have a good one, my friend.
That's not cancel culture, what the feck are you talking about
That's a bunch of individuals being rude on the internet.
Thats cancel culture, mate. That is what people are talking about when they talk about cancel culture.
No idea, its a reddit thing. Im trying to be cool like the kids are.
It's not a new phenomenon. The medium is new but the act itself isn't, the difference is that people used to go in the streets for example The Last Temptation led to protest and even burned theaters globally. Without getting into the determination of who is right or wrong, the new phenomenon is that media personalities, artists and politicians thought that the internet would shield them from the mob that in the past would have gone in front of movie/TV studios, political party HQs or radio stations but the mob don't need to move anymore they have access to their targets via social media.
Pre internet world existed in the streets. None of what we are seeing is new outside of the medium, now one important thing that needs to be said, the medium means that instead of having dozens or maybe hundreds of people that have access to you, nowadays you easily have thousands people with direct access to what you say and can communicate with you or at you, on Twitter those figures can be significantly larger if you are retweeted by a major content creator, in a few seconds hundreds of millions of people will know what you said and will have an opinion that they can share but how many actually share it? What proportion fit with this idea of cancel culture? 0.1% 0.01%?
The medium is different. And it’s different in fundamental, important ways. Sounds like a novel enough phenomenon to have a name of its own IMO.
The scale is different but not phenomenon. It's a bit like saying that waves are a new concept when you compare their size in a lake and in an ocean. People seem to not realize that they are not speaking in their living room when they tweet something.
Cancel culture is trying to “cancel” someone or something by digging up things from a very long time ago & using it against them now. Gina Carano got sacked because she made ridiculous comments comparing being a conservative in America to being a Jew in Nazi Germany. She was not sacked or punished in anyway for her numerous comments on trans people.
But "cancel culture" doesnt exist...
I'm with you on this. The ease with which outrage can be vented on the internet and pressure can be applied on companies/institutions has led to a huge ramp up of such activity to the point where it is a fundamentally different phenomenon.
If 30 years ago Carano gave her views in a magazine interview, do you think there would be people on the streets to protest them? No, no one would give a feck because if you protest on the streets for every C-list actor's views, you would be doing nothing but that for the rest of your whole life. She would fly completely under the radar and there would be no consequences to her views.
A hurricane is a different phenomenon to a breeze, yet they are both just wind blowing.
That's your definition of it but not anyone else's.
Wikipedia: Cancel Culture
The internet does record everything and make it easily searchable meaning it allows people to also leverage statements made a long time ago. But digging out old statements isn't a prerequisite for the definition of cancel culture.
So if you go on twitter tonight & compare being a conservative in Britain now to being Jewish in Nazi Germany, and you lose your job for it, have you been “cancelled” or have you just been sacked for saying something stupid & incredibly offensive?
Gina Carano was sacked by one job, she hasn’t been cancelled or black listed. She’ll get plenty of work.
no she didn’t, she compared the actions of twitter users to nazis. Like I said in a previous post, context and nuance are ignored so as to paint some one in whatever light they like. Cancel culture is weaponised ostracism. People love to tear down their heroes. So it never takes much to get the ball rolling.
Who told you that you that these two are mutually exclusive?
I like Gina Carano & have done since her days in Strikeforce/EliteXC, I don’t agree with her losing her job but what she said was fecking stupid. She’s a Hollywood actress now why is she even engaging with twitter mobs about shit like transgender issues. Whoever is advising her is doing a horrible job.
Actually they aren't different phenomenons. Which ironically is a good example of why the same phenomenon could be given different names depending on intensity and duration which would be a good starting point to demonstrate why I may be wrong on the different names point.
Cancel culture is really really real. If you don't believe me answer me this: did this man's songs get worse after 1997?
No. Yet his career was destroyed. He is almost never played on radio anymore. He can't get a job gigging. He lost most of his royalty income. He faced endless hateful attacks and ridicule. He was hounded out of his job and then the country. He was Cancelled. He was Cancelled worse than anyone since Jesus.
He is a free man, he served his time and he has still lost everything to Cancel Culture.
This is your crusade. He is on your team. Stand up for him please.
No. Yet his career was destroyed. He is almost never played on radio anymore. He can't get a job gigging. He lost most of his royalty income. He faced endless hateful attacks and ridicule. He was hounded out of his job and then the country. He was Cancelled. He was Cancelled worse than anyone since Jesus.
He is a free man, he served his time and he has still lost everything to Cancel Culture.
This is your crusade. He is on your team. Stand up for him please.
Errm, unironically no. They are very different phenomena. Perhaps hurricane and cyclone, but hurricane and breeze... no.
None of the above things apply to a breeze. It's not rotating, it's not low pressure, it produces no thunderstorms, it doesn't separate air masses of different densities and it creates a front.
This is however a great example of how when something get amplified to a huge level, it becomes so vastly different in so many aspects from it's original form, that it does indeed get classified as a new phenomenon altogether.
Cancel culture is really really real. If you don't believe me answer me this: did this man's songs get worse after 1997?
No. Yet his career was destroyed. He is almost never played on radio anymore. He can't get a job gigging. He lost most of his royalty income. He faced endless hateful attacks and ridicule. He was hounded out of his job and then the country. He was Cancelled. He was Cancelled worse than anyone since Jesus.
He is a free man, he served his time and he has still lost everything to Cancel Culture.
This is your crusade. He is on your team. Stand up for him please.
Actually not an example of cancel culture.
Actually Pneuma is the fundamental substance from which everything is built. Air holds us together. This was discovered over two and a half thousand years ago.
Of course
Cancel culture is really really real. If you don't believe me answer me this: did this man's songs get worse after 1997?
No. Yet his career was destroyed. He is almost never played on radio anymore. He can't get a job gigging. He lost most of his royalty income. He faced endless hateful attacks and ridicule. He was hounded out of his job and then the country. He was Cancelled. He was Cancelled worse than anyone since Jesus.
He is a free man, he served his time and he has still lost everything to Cancel Culture.
This is your crusade. He is on your team. Stand up for him please.
I can't believe you are actual staff here....the guy is a convicted pedo, a dangerous individual, and he is your example, ffs
And was Cancelled. Stand up for him.I can't believe you are actual staff here....the guy is a convicted pedo, a dangerous individual, and he is your example, ffs
Staff is pushing it but I sometimes can't believe it either.
I can't believe you are actual staff here....the guy is a convicted pedo, a dangerous individual, and he is your example, ffs
I think he was being sarcastic.
That is Gary Glitter. He is your guy. Own it.
What have you been searching
I watch a broad selection of things, I try to understand peoples positions rather than judging based on what group they belong to.
Ive watched some Shapiro, he's clever (Im reluctant to say intelligent) but having watched his interview with Haidt I realise he's just an entrenched voice, he constantly asks Haidt if the left are more responsible for xyz. He's just chasing the money.
I can't believe you are actual staff here....the guy is a convicted pedo, a dangerous individual, and he is your example, ffs
What's the classical liberal stance here, then? "Don't dare to cancel people who hate black people, gay people or jewish people, but if you don't want to cancel paedos then you shouldn't get to mod Redcafe"?
How exactly are you defining cancel culture here?
If my neighbour moves their fence 1 metre within my land and i complain under historical and legal grounds, to change it back, am I using cancel culture under your interpretation?
What about countires that stop taking part and dismantled the slave trade, was that participating in cancel culture?
Yeah, I know its a just weird reference
I'm defining cancel culture by comparing how the (online) public reacted to Mel Gibson and Gary Glitter. So, no, no fences and no slavery.
I love how much i live in people minds rent free with this
So explain the relevance in the colonialism comment?
There is good and bad to cancelling i feel.
When you cancel someone for a serious crime, it prevents other people from commiting the same crime.
But then people get cancelled or threatened with being cancelled for not as serious stuff, like how Gordon Elliott has got in trouble with the picture, which I think the ban was fair enough. Caroline Flack commit suicide because she was essentially going to be cancelled as well. You have to be airtight now if you ever become famous. I remember Boris Becker saying fame was an awful price to pay for his success.
When you cancel someone for a serious crime, it prevents other people from commiting the same crime.
But then people get cancelled or threatened with being cancelled for not as serious stuff, like how Gordon Elliott has got in trouble with the picture, which I think the ban was fair enough. Caroline Flack commit suicide because she was essentially going to be cancelled as well. You have to be airtight now if you ever become famous. I remember Boris Becker saying fame was an awful price to pay for his success.
Compare the plays Glitter got on BBC radio before and after 1997.
Someone please just show me how Glitter was not Cancelled according to established definitions, and I will concede.
Until then all the All Lives Matter, anti-woke, anti-trans activist types should have to take Gary to their bosom and fight for his unCancelling.
Someone please just show me how Glitter was not Cancelled according to established definitions, and I will concede.
Until then all the All Lives Matter, anti-woke, anti-trans activist types should have to take Gary to their bosom and fight for his unCancelling.
Fame has always led to more scrutiny, the difference is that some share more than they should, in particular pictures and thougths that shouldn't be shared with millions of people.
Oh, sorry, didn't realize were going back to my old comments (fitting, I suppose).
It was a funny joke about how e.g. the Boston Tea Party/Mel Gibson was about someone (the American people/movie goers) doing something (starting a revolution/staying home) because someone (Britain/Mel Gibson) said or did something they didn't like (overplayed their political hand/said racist, homphobic and antisemitic stuff).
And doing my funny joke I was using the parameters given to me by the those decrying cancel culture, not what I would use if I had to define it myself.
again, she didn’t say anything. She didn’t want to put up her pro nouns. They hounded her and hounded her. 6 months of death threats, rape threats and calling her boot lick racist. And no one said anything about it. She was right when she called them out. The fact you (and others all over the internet)are still repeating the misinformation a month after the fact about what she did speaks volumes about how cancel culture works.
6 months of death threats, rape threats, and general abuse. And people were fine with it. So she was right. They normalised abusing her because of politics just like the nazis normalised abusing Jews. That doesn’t mean she thinks shes like the Jews. It means that that people online are acting like nazis, and the people who say nothing have been convinced it’s fine that she should be treated that way.
I don’t agree with her politics. I don’t think she’s a very good actress. And I don’t think she’ll be missed from Star Wars. But to accept that it’s ok to abuse her like that for months is bullshit, in my opinion. And to then punish her further when she calls that treatment out is, well, pretty horrible.
Old comment? its on the last page.
I dont even know what you are rambling on about here in relation to what you said, I've already lost interest
Weird of you to reply to me, then, I'd advise against it.
I am sorry for expecting a coherent explanation, and not the ramblings of a madman, you weren't scouted by dumbo by any chance?
They both appear to be living rent free in your head.