Can anyone's view on ETH change this season?

Consistently putting in displays along the lines of the Chelsea home game and the Villa 2nd half would do it.
Plus even remotely looking like winning away against anyone outside of the bottom 6 or 7.
 
The Urban Goose said:
Yes, my opinion can. I've been giving him a lot of leeway given the off the pitch stuff, injuries etc but he needs to show something better in the second half of the season.

Having said that, Potter doesn't inspire any more than ETH at the moment so I'm still inclined to give him summer under SJR/Brailsford and see how he starts next season regardless.
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Agreed. The idea of Potter failing at Chelsea and being seen as the answer here is utterly baffling.
We're probably the worst run big club after Chelsea, so it wouldn't scream great call.
 
RedSky said:
For me, it's nothing about results. It's all about performances and seeing the light at the end of the tunnel. So a clear upturn in our attack with more structure in our play. That should produce better results anyway.

If we continue to plod along barely being able to score and our defense leaking goals in then it doesn't matter if he flukes the FA Cup.
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Pretty much this for me as well.
 
What’s saving ETH from the sack right now is the absence of any plausible alternatives we could bring in. But that will not be the case at the end of the season. It’s virtually impossible to envision ETH not getting sacked at the end of the season, unless we somehow start torching the league.
 
Unless Mount becomes better than Fred, no.

I don't expect much from Antony and Onana anymore. Hojlund is a maybe.
 
I'm on the fence. Not too fussed about results, but he really needs to give me a reason to believe in his project again.
 
Results are not as important but our performances need to improve dramatically compared to now for me to change my mind about ETH.
 
I would need to see something that United haven’t even done fleetingly since the cup win, and that’s play good, attacking football.
There is nothing to suggest he is capable of doing this - but I would love to be proved wrong.
 
VP89 said:
I wanted to ask this question to both camps:
Those for Ten Hag - what would need to happen this season for you to prefer his exit?
Those against Ten Hag - is there anything that can be salvaged this season for you to think he might be able to turn it around for us?

This is not designed to turn into an us vs them situation among posters entrenched in either side. It's more gauging what's needed for sentiment to change on both sides.

For me, I'm still backing our manager but I would probably stop trusting him & be indifferent to part ways if we exited the FA Cup to a team we should really beat + fell out of CL places by season's end. His CL disaster, poor transfer windows and open games in the first third of the season has made me question him for sure, but I want to give him a chance to turn it around in the second half. By turn it around though, I want results and wouldn't really hang my hat on injuries or circumstance any further - doubt even the staunchest defender of Ten Hag can argue with a whole season of underperformance.
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I've been for Ten Hag for quite some time and I'd like him to succeed here, but it's not looking likely. The team is playing terrible football, being constantly outplayed by even relegation battling sides. The results and play are just not good enough. If it were Bayern, Real Madrid, Barcelona or any other big non-PL club he would already be sacked.

So I'm against Ten Hag and the only way he could change my mind is to massively upturn the fortunes of the team. In the rest of the season team needs to play good football and demonstrate a title challenging form (meaning winning somewhere around 40 points in remaining 18 games). Also by playing good football I don't mean necessarily possession or pressing but united must dominate. The team needs to create chances and stop the opposition from same. Right now, the results and performances are embarrassing. Considering this team finished third for seasons ago, second three seasons ago and third last season what's happening this season IMHO it's the manager who is at fault. Players are obviously good enough for better results.
 
I think he should be sacked, because he has a lack of standards and doesn’t even meet those he has.

By lack of standards I mean that he called some matches like against Galatasaray "good performances" that for me were not that. He needs to acknowledge that he has to aspire a higher level of his team to make me open minded again.

And then he has to make his team play that way.
 
No European football just league and an occasional FA cup.

Top 4 or it’s goodnight Irene.
 
stefan92 said:
I think he should be sacked, because he has a lack of standards and doesn’t even meet those he has.

By lack of standards I mean that he called some matches like against Galatasaray "good performances" that for me were not that. He needs to acknowledge that he has to aspire a higher level of his team to make me open minded again.

And then he has to make his team play that way.
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I have to agree with this also, I don't like how he has tried to lower standards lately, he needs to take responsibility and work on improving.
 
VP89 said:
I wanted to ask this question to both camps:
Those for Ten Hag - what would need to happen this season for you to prefer his exit?
Those against Ten Hag - is there anything that can be salvaged this season for you to think he might be able to turn it around for us?

This is not designed to turn into an us vs them situation among posters entrenched in either side. It's more gauging what's needed for sentiment to change on both sides.

For me, I'm still backing our manager but I would probably stop trusting him & be indifferent to part ways if we exited the FA Cup to a team we should really beat + fell out of CL places by season's end. His CL disaster, poor transfer windows and open games in the first third of the season has made me question him for sure, but I want to give him a chance to turn it around in the second half. By turn it around though, I want results and wouldn't really hang my hat on injuries or circumstance any further - doubt even the staunchest defender of Ten Hag can argue with a whole season of underperformance.
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Sure, if he suddenly plays progressive football with a good tactical plan and an effective way of attacking/scoring goals that meshes with still being able to defend properly. I've said for a while the pure match results aren't what's most embarrassing right now. It's that we score goals at a relegation pace and look tactically clueless most games.
 
Decent displays. His signings looking like they work. A battle for top 4 and a run in the cup. That alongside some positivity from Ineos, with good recruitment's made in senior positions and I'd be quite happy to have him have a go next season.
 
Make me believe. That means seeing a style of play that is consistent and looks like it will actually work. Both home and away, against low block and pressing teams, against big and small teams.

That means making me believe in your signings. Case-Mount-Bruno is the midfield he bet the house on. Show us that it's a class midfield. One 6 and two 8's. Prove everyone wrong and that midfield can go against anyone.

Prove Antony-Hojlund-Garnacho/Rashford is the attack that can score goals. That can set up plays. That can run a defence ragged. Not just in moments from one player. Consistently and again against low block etc not just when they have space. Can they adapt and deal with different styles and defences.

Lastly Prove that Onana is the man to keep nets for us and you didn't just waste 50 mill.

That's all. Results/position/FA cup run will be the icing on the cake. But first we need to believe in the project and that we can go somewhere with it and not just blow 200 mill again in the summer heading in the wrong direction
 
RedBanker said:
If anyone wants to know how far our standards have fallen, reading the posts in this thread is what they should do. The amount of excuses, apologies is just appalling. One would think we are a mid-level club who chanced upon a legendary manager in his prime and must protect him at all costs. People truly are putting manager before club.
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Mate honestly we were a mid level club last season who over achieved. And yes things went for us eg the cup run.

This year we are a relegation side who are overachieving by being in the top 8.
 
kouroux said:
I disagree, what is there to gain by maintaing this so-called agenda ? I started being unconvinced since March/April last season and have always been hopeful to be proven wrong.
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The question is can your view change. Surely if we win 10-0 every game until the end of the season you would change your view (as an extreme example)
 
I don't care about results really. The basics in the performance is not there. The press is good every few games. The combinations are never there. The defence is terrible when the press fails. I don't see how any players that are to come back really help us, bar Martinez.

Teams are going to force us to have the ball and we have no plan at all in that case, and haven't had for years. That has to change but no reason it would now after all we have seen.
 
It's not a case of achieving a league finish. It is a results based business but I'm not judging things based on results purely. It's based on performances, tactics, and the impact of his coaching on the pitch. As a manager it's never too late to change plans and implement something that can work long term. So far I don't think his ideas can be successful here.

If he shows that he can implement a system that works, with players returning and full training between games, if we can show good performances away from home against big teams, so there is something to build on, then why not? But it has to be a level of coaching that shows he can be an elite coach, because we need an elite coach to get to where we want. So I doubt he has it in him given what he's shown after 18 months. Always open to change though.
 
Roane said:
Mate honestly we were a mid level club last season who over achieved. And yes things went for us eg the cup run.

This year we are a relegation side who are overachieving by being in the top 8.
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Nah I get that. I meant it's hilarious where people are coming up with sad excuses to protect the man's bacon. He has not been able to take us anywhere in his time here and has burdened the club with more deadwood. But still people are queuing up with apologies as if he was the second coming.
 
I liked what I saw the first season, he made lots of logical decisions and we were set up well. The way we've been set up this season has been diabolical at times and not suiting the players we have.

If he consistently drops McTominay and Antony and stops setting the team up for the midfield to be cut to shreds, plus we start seeing more goals I'd be willing to forgive. But that would require him to adapt and I just don't see it happening the way things are going.
 
The moment Ten Hag gets 5-6 dominant wins in a row with his coaching style implemented instead of last season's over-reliance on Rashford's purple patch is when my thoughts on him would turn around.

A string of victories without considering context such as style-of-play and dominant displays don't really mean much as we've seen with multiple false dawns under previous managers.
 
VP89 said:
I wanted to ask this question to both camps:
Those for Ten Hag - what would need to happen this season for you to prefer his exit?
Those against Ten Hag - is there anything that can be salvaged this season for you to think he might be able to turn it around for us?

This is not designed to turn into an us vs them situation among posters entrenched in either side. It's more gauging what's needed for sentiment to change on both sides.

For me, I'm still backing our manager but I would probably stop trusting him & be indifferent to part ways if we exited the FA Cup to a team we should really beat + fell out of CL places by season's end. His CL disaster, poor transfer windows and open games in the first third of the season has made me question him for sure, but I want to give him a chance to turn it around in the second half. By turn it around though, I want results and wouldn't really hang my hat on injuries or circumstance any further - doubt even the staunchest defender of Ten Hag can argue with a whole season of underperformance.
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Great post. I like the nuance. You’re right, we all have a line of demarcation.

I have voted sack now. My main reasons are, in order: lack of goals, poor results, lack of patterns of play, transition defending, set piece defending.

I would give him through January/early February. If we go on a run with Casemiro, Lisandro, Shaw, Varane in the side and he somehow rescues Rashford, let him play it out til the end of the season and see if he can improve play in a lasting way and get on an 80pt pace, nick top 4.

I actually think we have so much work to do, and if Sir Jim doesn’t want to keep him, we should be concentrating on scouting and the new manager search. I really want to hit the ground running with transfers.
 
Sure. If he could manage to bring us back to top 4 with convincing improvement on the performance, he would be welcomed to stay here with open arms.
 
Still in the 'keep him' camp largely due to a very decent run of results and performances last season from the Spurs game at OT to the cup final but if he can't get the team scoring goals without the opposition letting us have massive amount of space to run into (Villa game) then I'll lose what little faith i have. It's the same problem i had with Ole in that, if the counter attack isn't on, we generally find it ridiculously tough to impose ourselves on games and for a club with the attacking traditions of United that should be unacceptable.
 
I don't think he's as good a manager or coach as we thought, and that's a problem. Many of his mistakes get spotted immediately by supporters, and yet it takes him weeks or longer to make a change. Even with a fully fit squad the football isn't great either, and I doubt we'll ever compete for major honours under him.

If he could prove me wrong on any of that, and I'm talking some really nice football, putting away the smaller teams with ease, competing with the better teams in the league, then I'll give him a chance. I personally don't think our squad is as bad as it's looked, even with injuries. It'll take a lot, and I'll probably now be thinking about how good we could look under better coaches.
 
I'll chance my stance if we to show a significant improvement in the level and attractiveness of our football for a sustained period of time between now and the end of the season.

Results are important very important too but the key for me is showing those signs that he can lead us to becoming a top side that plays attractive football.

Personally I don't think we saw enough of it last season and we've seen none of it this season.
 
We need to get players back fit before passing much judgement. He’s got a mismatch of squad from four managers. At some point we need to give a manager time and ship out players who aren’t wanted. For me I think ETH should get at least next season. Who is being successful under the stewardship of the Glazers honestly
 
I think he's in a sink or swim situation. Judging from the comments of Ratcliffe and observing elements of DB's interview with Steven Bartlett there's an expectation for the club to be back at the top. I personally don't think Eth has what it takes to have United on the front end of the league, I think he lacks the tactical nous and conviction in identity to take the club to that level and given the owners ambitions he'll fall short. I think Eth has a low ceiling in comparison to the optimal standard the club is anticipated to be at.

With Ashworth, Mitchell and whoever comes in, I don't think INEOS are giving a manager 5 years to figure things out, it sounds like there will be room for volatile results over the short term (not half a season) in the grand scheme of assessing the greater good with a trajectory that is inclined. So while I don't think there will be an immediate presupposition for the manager to win things in the infancy period, I think the hierarchy will assess that the manager is first and foremost capable of raising the teams level significantly to a respectable level competitively.

I under no circumstances as it stands see Erik ten Hag leading a United team to a successful league challenge / win. He's 19 months in and there are too many questions with the prerogative of what this United team is in 36 / 48 months. The team is still poor in possession, against well structured defences there's no rhythm in the attack, the team doesn't score enough goals (which was a problem last season masked by one players form) and those aren't personnel issues, they are tactical ones when you assess the performances.

United essentially have a manager who has abandoned the principles on what got him hired at first instance and is now having to not only console an underperforming team but find his own managerial identity in the process. It's apparent that the biggest issue this season is the performances not the results. Tottenham's demise was grossly overstated because they had poor results for a period but the performances weren't entirely amiss. It's easier to galvanise consistency given those circumstances. It seems Erik has been unable to lift the performances since March 23 so he's got too much to do in such a short period. If he focused / focuses on raising the performance levels it will aid his case significantly.
 
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RedSky said:
For me, it's nothing about results. It's all about performances and seeing the light at the end of the tunnel. So a clear upturn in our attack with more structure in our play. That should produce better results anyway.

If we continue to plod along barely being able to score and our defense leaking goals in then it doesn't matter if he flukes the FA Cup.
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This is my opinion too. I honestly can live with poor results (within reason) if we show signs of implementing a way of playing.
 
RedBanker said:
Nah I get that. I meant it's hilarious where people are coming up with sad excuses to protect the man's bacon. He has not been able to take us anywhere in his time here and has burdened the club with more deadwood. But still people are queuing up with apologies as if he was the second coming.
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I get you have a view and I think it's fair enough.

For me it's twofold:

1. I think we need a stable period and

2. Although I'm not saying he will be the next SAF or take us to the glory land, I do think the "over achievement" is down to him, in my opinion based on how he has handled some of the shit at the club.

I get he has bought bad in terms of how Antony has been, even Hojlund. However I do think had Sancho not happened, had Ronaldo not happened and had Greenwood not happened it was a good plan.

The plan being you need to bed players in and give them a season to get up to speed with the Prem. Again I use likes of Vidic and Evra as greats who were out of their depth to start.

Honestly the club is a shit show. No manager is going to come in and replace aging and not good enough players in one season and expect continuity and all players achieving their max.

And yes I could be wrong but opinions and all that.
 
If the performances pick up and we actually start looking like a well coached, coherent outfit going forward, then sure. Results are secondary to this for me. If for example we continue playing like we have done for most of this season but somehow get into the top 4 playing like that, that’s not going to change my mind that he should go.
 
A run of 5/6 wins without a depleted squad would I’d imagine .
 
Only way I would even entertain an opinion change is if we win the FA Cup and finish top 3 in the league from here. Good luck with that.
 
He has to show that he has at least some football brain. Not quite sure how he has made it as far as he has when he thinks taking Mainoo out for McTominay at half time in a 0-0 game is a smart tactical move. I still have no idea what the actual thinking is behind that. The only way it makes sense to take of Mainoo for McTominay is if we are getting into the final 10-15 minutes and we are chasing the game. Otherwise, it makes absolutely no sense. Or perhaps someone here can explain it to me...
 
pocco said:
I don't think he's as good a manager or coach as we thought, and that's a problem. Many of his mistakes get spotted immediately by supporters, and yet it takes him weeks or longer to make a change. Even with a fully fit squad the football isn't great either, and I doubt we'll ever compete for major honours under him.

If he could prove me wrong on any of that, and I'm talking some really nice football, putting away the smaller teams with ease, competing with the better teams in the league, then I'll give him a chance. I personally don't think our squad is as bad as it's looked, even with injuries. It'll take a lot, and I'll probably now be thinking about how good we could look under better coaches.
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Yup. The prem has the best coaches around, so you'll get found out if you don't have the right plan and that's what has happened with ten hag. You need a tactic that can make the team compete with teams much better than your group of players. If the tactic only works when your players are much stronger than the competition, then it won't be successful in this league given the competition. We'll never have a much stronger squad than everyone else. Our best bet is being a squad on par with a couple others probably. So that's where the manager has to prove his worth.
 
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