GK - Butland
Central defenders - Chambers, Oxford
Full back - Kyle Walker, Rose, Dier, Charly Taylor
CM - Ward Prowse, Dier
Attacking mid - Alli, Leko
Striker - Kane
Buying British?
- Thread starter Devil may care
- Start date
GK - Butland
Central defenders - Chambers, Oxford
Full back - Kyle Walker, Rose, Dier, Charly Taylor
CM - Ward Prowse, Dier
Attacking mid - Alli, Leko
Striker - Kane
Some keepers are great at being busy in crap teams making lots of saves but fall apart when they have little to do and require greater concentration. See Ben Foster as an example.
Not to add putting the England NT shirt on and they buy into the hype and lose track of their own ability, and never fulfill their potential (if they have it in the first place)
Firstly, I actually think that we have a ton of English players in our squad and around the first team in comparison with the other top clubs. Lets look at our English contingent.
Smalling, Jones, Carrick, Shaw, Johnston, Lingard, Rashford, Rooney, Young.
I think that blows away any of the other top six in terms of English talent.
Secondly, the lack of English players is purely down to the way they are trained in England from a young age. Whilst other countries are focusing on technique and five a side games from a young age, we're playing 11 a side games and concentrating more on physical traits. I understand that this has changed in recent times with our lack of success on the international stage, but we're unlikely to see the fruits of our labour for years and even then, the continental clubs have been doing this for years and have a much more refined process.
Until we catch up the level of foreign imports will be higher from a younger age. As nice as it is to have young English players coming through they will be a minority until we have generations of footballers who are as technically adept as their foreign counterparts. We don't have some divine responsibility to save English football and we can't afford to let standards slip to pander to an English core ideal.
Smalling, Jones, Carrick, Shaw, Johnston, Lingard, Rashford, Rooney, Young.
I think that blows away any of the other top six in terms of English talent.
Secondly, the lack of English players is purely down to the way they are trained in England from a young age. Whilst other countries are focusing on technique and five a side games from a young age, we're playing 11 a side games and concentrating more on physical traits. I understand that this has changed in recent times with our lack of success on the international stage, but we're unlikely to see the fruits of our labour for years and even then, the continental clubs have been doing this for years and have a much more refined process.
Until we catch up the level of foreign imports will be higher from a younger age. As nice as it is to have young English players coming through they will be a minority until we have generations of footballers who are as technically adept as their foreign counterparts. We don't have some divine responsibility to save English football and we can't afford to let standards slip to pander to an English core ideal.
Would Redmond be a good signing?
Tottenham have Walker and Rose (England starters) Dier Alli and Kane (England starters). You are well off there
Agreed. But I don't get that impression with Pickford. He's a better talent than Butland for sure.
Half of these players aren't even good enough to start for their own clubs.
Well we have anout 500 on rooney so we can have a few more i think.
Personally i would rather see a british (english) core at united, but that needs to be balanced with success.
Ideal scenario is a british core of great players with equally great over seas players filling in gaps.
Sadly, for many reasons, not least of which are money and (too many) foreign players, there is a lack of english talent, or willingness to develop english talent, so at present i don't see how united can be successful without bringing in players from abroad. Which for me is a shame.
Bale and Kane maybe Rose would be the only one's at the moment who would come in and push for the 1st team, the rest would be squad players for me, few young ones like Lewis Cook i like and thought we could have taken a punt on in the summer, there a CM at boro that has impressed me when watched them want to say its Forshaw or something along those lines, not sure how consistent he is or overall how good he is but looked quality in the 3/4 games i have seen him, hows Will Hughes performed this season? he seemed to look fantastic as well before his injury
I always enjoyed a core of English players in our starting Xi. But, when push comes to shove it's the results that really matter and there are too few talented English players.
Yup. Rooney at Everton, Shaw at Southampton and Rio at Leeds were no brainers. We should try to get the obvious top British talents, but apart from that I don't really care.
Football is a results business, but the more British players in the side the better. Identity is an important facet of football, and if possible, I'd try to maintain that British link. That said, there are few around good enough to play here. Bale is brilliant and Kane is very good. We've already got Smalling, Jones and Shaw which is great.
Aside from that lot, there aren't any British players kicking around that I'd be going out of my way to bring in. I think Barkley has something that could be polished at a club like United, but I wouldn't be able to justify the fee on taking that chance.
Aside from that lot, there aren't any British players kicking around that I'd be going out of my way to bring in. I think Barkley has something that could be polished at a club like United, but I wouldn't be able to justify the fee on taking that chance.
The English players we do have are some of the best in their position in the country: Rashford, Jones, Shaw and Lingard are all going to be here fore a while, I don't see what the fuss is? We're sorted.
Additionally there's Tuanzebe and the English youth products coming up who all look like they could make it here. I am sure that Jose would buy English talent if they were just as good as the talent elsewhere for a similar price range, but it is just not possible right now.
IN the future though, as others have mentioned Gray and Cook look to be good young players who we ought to keep an eye on. Unfortunately though Sancho at City looks the real deal and he's not going to move across town.
Additionally there's Tuanzebe and the English youth products coming up who all look like they could make it here. I am sure that Jose would buy English talent if they were just as good as the talent elsewhere for a similar price range, but it is just not possible right now.
IN the future though, as others have mentioned Gray and Cook look to be good young players who we ought to keep an eye on. Unfortunately though Sancho at City looks the real deal and he's not going to move across town.
In fact, Walker is the one player we need. If there was a Walker on the left I would like us to buy 2 Walkers.
The importance of fullbacks is huge. They are the "wingers help". When a fullback is quality he frees his winger.
Think about this --> Everyone says Giggs had a prolonged career, he was a top level professional footballer, he kept training like a 20 yo boy and the physios helped him, too. I remember that till he played on the left, Evra was giving him some extra yards. And on the other hand Giggs made Evra look tactically inept.
Last edited:
Alli's a funny one. I could see him becoming a handy cm but he never plays there. For me he's only a decent no.10 and I'll be very surprised if he becomes top class there. Gerrard mk2 but not quite as good perhaps?
He's also a prick and looks like a Dragonball Z baddie.
He's also a prick and looks like a Dragonball Z baddie.
I rate him, but is he a striker or a winger? Regardless it would be kind of pointless because at his age he needs playing time and we can't really offer that here in those positions.
Another young CB brimming with potential requiring consistent gametime to prove really isn't what we need right now.
Pickford, Rose, Walker, Alli, Grey + all the youth prospects that are considered homegrown... I see a lot of good stuff available out there, so the "there aren't any qualified candidates" argument is not good enough
We would only need him because he is younger then valencia, other then that I think Valencia is probably a bit better. Though thats obviously arguable.
Buying British generally means overpaying some decent players.
It's simple really: Established British players simply don't offer value for money, unless you buy a relative unknown from the lower leagues. They're hyped to the high heavens by the British press and hence their valuations climb dramatically. As an example Alli and Kane would cost easily over £100 million combined. For the same price you could take your pick from Griezmann, Koke, Icardi, Costa, Reus, Gotze, Aubameyang, Hazard, Sanchez, Ozil, Benzema and James who very few would argue are a class above.
Pickford's been playing well for 1 and a half seasons, why would you replace arguably the best goalkeeper in the world with Jordan Pickford?
Shaw's ceiling is higher than Rose and has shown (pre leg break) that he can play on level higher than that of Rose's.
Walker, is he really that much better than Valencia?
Alli is incredibly overrated, I really wouldn't want him in our team, not to mention we've Pogba who counts as homegrown and is better than him.
by 'Grey' I assume you mean Demarai Gray. That one I will give you, we should have gone after him, but again: Martial is better than him.
Apart from Bale only Sterling can improve us and I don't want him anyway
You're not thinking about the bigger picture. Most of those players are young, adaptable and still open for development. We're not in the business of finding better first team players, because as you say there aren't any really. But shaping a young talent is great for long term commitment.
Regarding Rose? Attitude wise, it seems Shaw has taken interest in being a financial expert, claiming what he's worth and how things should be. He's great at going forward sure, but defensively he's as shaky as Opera on a Christmas giveaway show. As I said, it's about building, not replacing.
lol .... Rose is the best left wingback in the Prem. Not only is he part of one of the Prem's very best back 4 and their excellent defensive record, at Spurs so far he's scored 9 goals with 12 assists.
These are stats that Shaw - 0 goals and 2 assists - can only dream of attaining in the future.
We should get Farage in as director of football. He'd make us British again.
On a serious note until Britain starts producing great players again our hands are tied.
On a serious note until Britain starts producing great players again our hands are tied.
Spurs were run ragged in the CL because of the lack of technical ability. The likes of Rose,Walker and Dier were schooled.
Says a lot unfortunately.
A good pool of British players benefits all the big clubs.
The likes of Rose isnt in the same league as Ashley Cole was. That's the level English players that were about when United,Chelsea,Arsenal and Pool were regulars contenders in the CL.
Rose's career at Spurs has been completely dissimilar to Shaw at United. Shaw's has been very stop-start due to injury concerns, which are not his fault.
Also, comparing fullbacks on their assists and goals is simply ridiculous. Shaw and Rose are completely different types of fullbacks, one is defensive and the other is more offensive. It's like telling me that Rose is better than Eric Abidal because Abidal at Barca only had 2 goals and 11 assists in almost 200 games. Not to mention Rose is 5 years older and reaching his peak.
Nothing like changing the subject, away from Shaw and onto Cole and the CL
The whole point is that many of the current better British players lack quality.
Isn't that what the thread is about?
I agree that Shaw's injury problems are not his fault, although he does seem quite injury prone.
Nor am I only comparing fullbacks just on their assists and goals - although Rose's stats on this front blow Shaw out of the water, even allowing for the many extra minutes played by Rose. I've also pointed out that Rose has been part of the Spurs excellent defensive record. He gets forward to very good effect and he get backs to defend - he has a amazing energy levels and rarely makes a defensive lapse.
All in all, where is the evidence for the claim that Shaw has "a higher ceiling" than Rose? I don't see any at all.
Last edited:
Do local supporters and fans of other clubs have similar qualms about the existing player demographics at their respective clubs?
I'm guessing it's the fans (United fans) based in and around Manchester and other parts of UK who feel more strongly towards this subject (which sort of is an amalgamation of the 'No English players in our Starting 11' thread and this one). From a personal perspective, and since I'm not from around here, I'm borderline indifferent to it, and to put it objectively would always prefer talent (at both youth and senior levels) taking precedence over anglophilia.
I'm guessing it's the fans (United fans) based in and around Manchester and other parts of UK who feel more strongly towards this subject (which sort of is an amalgamation of the 'No English players in our Starting 11' thread and this one). From a personal perspective, and since I'm not from around here, I'm borderline indifferent to it, and to put it objectively would always prefer talent (at both youth and senior levels) taking precedence over anglophilia.
I dont really think that we're in too bad of a situation to be honest:
Would not be a terrible team compared to many of the other all English PL-teams in my opinion.
Johnstone
CBJ - Smalling - Jones - Shaw
Goss - Carrick
Lingard - Rooney - Young
Rashford
CBJ - Smalling - Jones - Shaw
Goss - Carrick
Lingard - Rooney - Young
Rashford
Would not be a terrible team compared to many of the other all English PL-teams in my opinion.
OK, fine. I was just picking up on one particular point made in this thread.
I agree.
I'd even have a question mark over Smalling if truth be told.
But Sterling is? Might as well throw Stones in that one as well. Those two are perhaps the most overrated players in The UK squad. I'd take Joe Allen every day. There are actually a decent amount of highly influcial players, that aren't being considered
Why buy English if they are going to be crap, overvalued and overpaid anyway?
Buy foreign if that's where the talent is, and supplement the squad with youngsters from the academy.
Buy foreign if that's where the talent is, and supplement the squad with youngsters from the academy.
Ramsey?