Pretty sure it wasn't a bad move. On one hand it showed that they won't be toyed with and that even Bayern have to pay proper fees if they want players under contract at the club. On the other hand it gave Dortmund time to establish the replacement, in this case a certain Pierre-Emerick Aubameyang.
Bundesliga 2018/19
- Thread starter uamini
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Fair enough. Still cant see why Lewandoski could not resign and then be sold just to allow Dortmund to profit on the player they formed. Snakes will be snakes.
Why would he do that? He had a contract and he fulfilled his obligations. Nothing snake about it.
Yes but it would be the "honorable" thing to help compensate the club who helped make you the player you are today and the reason he is at Bayern now.
I know it is a business but still. No matter what he gets his move to Bayern but he could at least help his club reap some much needed financial compensation.
I am all for gratefulness but he would have merely pissed off his new employer and cost himself a few millions. Don't really see the appeal for him there and don't think it should be expected of him to do that.
Ya I wouldn’t expect him to do that either based on his character but hey that’s why we have a saying in Portuguese among Sporting fans “Zero ídolos” which means no idols.
Im sure united fans would of felt the same way if Ronaldo ran down his contract and went to Madrid for free.
Lewandowski was always open about it though. He had a contract and fulfilled it. Always being a pro about it.
I don’t think anybody at Dortmund has any hard feelings against him.
Didn’t know Dortmund knew about it thought he milked it out until the end and left for nothing.
Still think he should have helped having BVB compensated but I guess some players bite the hand that feeds them.
But fair play if BVB knew that I guess.
I will never understand how it can be held against a player that he fulfills his contract. No matter how I think about it, there is absolutely nothing about it, that seems even remotely wrong. Lewandowski is about as much a professional as possible and he did nothing but the exact thing he was paid for. And yes, I‘d say the same about any player leaving us on a free transfer as well.
His signing bonus and wages at Bayern improved since there was no fee to pay. Football is his job and the clubs are his employers.
I handle my jobs the same way.
Which is fair everyone has there opinions when it comes to that. I feel it’s The right thing to do for the club who gave you everything.
And he helped the club win the 11/12 title, win a Pokal and reach the CL final. It's a two-way street. It's not like he wouldn't have flourished at another club IMO.
Lewy was never one to kiss the badge. He for sure did not at Dortmund. Dortmund made a bargain, when they bought him for 4.5m EUR as they got from a begin a player that did perform on a far higher level on a decent wage. Why does everybody think that the club then has the right to get a big transfer sum - it is not that they were developing him much.
Once again fair enough I mean I guess I just feel it’s not the right thing to do.
Why would he do that? The club wouldn’t show him any loyalty whatsoever the second his performance level drops. So why in the world would Lewandowski leave millions on the table, to do a company, that’s worth hundreds of millions, a favor?
So you let a person, who represents you, accuse your boss of breaking promises (letting him go a year earlier), promising proof for that (emails), but never delivering it and then going on record that the main reason for a insulting contract offer was that Lewandowski was Polish (which was kinda a big deal because we had three Polish Internationals at that time and a large fanbase in Poland)?
Lewandowskis exit is seen as cleaner in retrospect because he was clever enough to let his agent Kucharsky do the dirty work for him and quite a number of supporters are foolish enough to think that agents work completely on their own and not generally with the go ahead of the people they represent.
There was also way less emotional attachment involved compared to Götze and Hummels. Lewandowski makes a point in detaching himself from the fans. He is the prototype of the football mercenary, which is honestly not even necessarily a negative thing, but also leads to far less adoration from the side of the fans. Lewandowski was respected for his skills as striker, Hummels and Götze were adored fan favourites.
Disagree completely. The honourable thing is for both sides to honour the contract. I hate it when clubs give players new long-term extensions knowing very well the player is going to be sold. It's an issue I wish something could be done about.
So the Hummels deal seems to be as good as through. It was announced on the official BVB-twitter and only the medical check is left. The pricing seems to be around 28-30 million + another 8-10 million in bonuses (all numbers in €). Unlike Kagawa or Sahin, he isn't a "failed" player as he performed quite well in those 3 years - bar the first half of the ended season.
The fee seems fair for a top defender at 30 and the current market.
That being said, with this transfer we have 5 CBs. Hummels, Akanji, Diallo, Zagadou, Balerdi. I don't count Toprak nor Weigl here. The first will definitely leave and the second isn't really a CB (and also is likely to leave). That means, we either plan to play with a 3-man defense line, Diallo/Akanji has a fairly big offer to them or there is the small chance that Balerdi gets loaned.
Either way, with this the expenses for Brandt, Schulz, medium Hazard, Hummels, Alcacer and Balerdi are about 142 million (-60 million for Pullisic) and we are clearly not done yet as there are still rumours for a striker/central midfielder/left-CB and/or right wing.
While that is in line with Watzke saying we are eventually starting to attack from now on, this is quite the sum and essentially leaves 4 option:
1. A player with a higher transfer-fee will leave. Sancho is unlikely I think. But Akanji / Diallo are definitely options.
2. We plan to take a medium-sized loan this season. About 30-40 million should be doable for us and remains a moderate risk with the player-material and revenue we have.
3. Since we are stock-listed, there will be an increase of capital stock.
4. We will have a fairly drastic increase in sponsorship. I think the jersey one wasn't improve just yet, but we are at only 10 million a year and estimations are that a new contract would mean 30 million. Also there are some other rumours for new sponsorships.
So to the 142 million of expenses, there are the following players who will go and many of them do have reasonable rumours (fee-estimations are by newspapers):
- Shinji Kagawa. No specific clubs named, but media talks about multiple ones being interested. Estimated Fee would be around 3-4 million.
- Maximilian Philipp. Rumours talk about Wolfsburg for 15-20 million.
- Sebastian Rode. Rumours are clear about Frankfurt. His knee-surgery went better than expected. Estimation is around 4-5 million.
- Raphael Guerreiro is rumoured to go to Barcelona for around 20-25 million.
- Ömer Toprak is apparently talking to one or two unnamed turkish clubs. Estimated fee is around 3-5 million.
- Schürrle apparently has some interests from Russia for around 8-12 million.
- Isak is already gone for 7 million.
- Pullisic is gone already for 60 million
Other candidates without or with old rumours are:
- Toljan -> 2-3 million
- Passlack -> 1 million
- Dahoud -> Anyhwere from 10-20 million depending on his performance at U21. If he leaves, we definitely will need another player for the 8. My wishful thinking still points towards Gündogan.
- Weigl -> The rumours about PSG are about 2 months old. He has stated he wants to go throughout the last season. 20-25 million are likely the fee, if PSG remains interested. Maybe a bit less for more sane clubs.
All in all:
- 67 million are already set for Isak and Pullisic
- 53-71 million for the recent rumours
- 33-49 million for the candidates that have no active rumours.
The whole sum would be: 153 - 187 million. That is of course, if we will be able to clear out our squad and not remain stuck on some players.
All in all it really depends on what our future system is supposed to be. And how players are planned. For example: Is Hazard meant to play a winger or similar to how he is sometimes playing for Belgium as a line-player who goes up and down the sideline of the pitch.
Depending on that we still need a proper central midfielder who can connect the defense to the offense (Gündogan would be the dream), a proper back-up for Sancho as Wolf seems to be planned as a more defensive option either becoming a WB or a line-player and a potential legit back-up for the 9. And if Hazard is supposed to be in a more offensive role, then a back-up for Schulz is also necessary.
Those are also the positions media has rumours about. Either way - these players will not be refinanced by fees of the known players being sold. That budget has been eaten up by the current purchases already.
Personally I think the right-wing back-up position for Sancho definitely is important. And I would like to see a player there who can definitely play instead of Sancho against some of the weaker Bundesliga sides with some potential to soften the blow, if (unfortunately likely) Sancho is going to leave after the EC 2020 (I like the Ferran Torres rumour here). Also a central midfielder seems quite important. I don't think Dahoud has a future anymore and I don't want to have Brandt/Götze wasted on the offensive part of the double-6. A Striker and Left-Wingback back-up are more nice-to-haves.
It's remaining interesting. After the ongoing cups and with the official opening of the transfer window, things most likely going take an increased pace.
Edit: Obviously that is all quite simplified, because there are other aspects to the cost of transfers such as fees for the agents, potential taxes, etc.
The fee seems fair for a top defender at 30 and the current market.
That being said, with this transfer we have 5 CBs. Hummels, Akanji, Diallo, Zagadou, Balerdi. I don't count Toprak nor Weigl here. The first will definitely leave and the second isn't really a CB (and also is likely to leave). That means, we either plan to play with a 3-man defense line, Diallo/Akanji has a fairly big offer to them or there is the small chance that Balerdi gets loaned.
Either way, with this the expenses for Brandt, Schulz, medium Hazard, Hummels, Alcacer and Balerdi are about 142 million (-60 million for Pullisic) and we are clearly not done yet as there are still rumours for a striker/central midfielder/left-CB and/or right wing.
While that is in line with Watzke saying we are eventually starting to attack from now on, this is quite the sum and essentially leaves 4 option:
1. A player with a higher transfer-fee will leave. Sancho is unlikely I think. But Akanji / Diallo are definitely options.
2. We plan to take a medium-sized loan this season. About 30-40 million should be doable for us and remains a moderate risk with the player-material and revenue we have.
3. Since we are stock-listed, there will be an increase of capital stock.
4. We will have a fairly drastic increase in sponsorship. I think the jersey one wasn't improve just yet, but we are at only 10 million a year and estimations are that a new contract would mean 30 million. Also there are some other rumours for new sponsorships.
So to the 142 million of expenses, there are the following players who will go and many of them do have reasonable rumours (fee-estimations are by newspapers):
- Shinji Kagawa. No specific clubs named, but media talks about multiple ones being interested. Estimated Fee would be around 3-4 million.
- Maximilian Philipp. Rumours talk about Wolfsburg for 15-20 million.
- Sebastian Rode. Rumours are clear about Frankfurt. His knee-surgery went better than expected. Estimation is around 4-5 million.
- Raphael Guerreiro is rumoured to go to Barcelona for around 20-25 million.
- Ömer Toprak is apparently talking to one or two unnamed turkish clubs. Estimated fee is around 3-5 million.
- Schürrle apparently has some interests from Russia for around 8-12 million.
- Isak is already gone for 7 million.
- Pullisic is gone already for 60 million
Other candidates without or with old rumours are:
- Toljan -> 2-3 million
- Passlack -> 1 million
- Dahoud -> Anyhwere from 10-20 million depending on his performance at U21. If he leaves, we definitely will need another player for the 8. My wishful thinking still points towards Gündogan.
- Weigl -> The rumours about PSG are about 2 months old. He has stated he wants to go throughout the last season. 20-25 million are likely the fee, if PSG remains interested. Maybe a bit less for more sane clubs.
All in all:
- 67 million are already set for Isak and Pullisic
- 53-71 million for the recent rumours
- 33-49 million for the candidates that have no active rumours.
The whole sum would be: 153 - 187 million. That is of course, if we will be able to clear out our squad and not remain stuck on some players.
All in all it really depends on what our future system is supposed to be. And how players are planned. For example: Is Hazard meant to play a winger or similar to how he is sometimes playing for Belgium as a line-player who goes up and down the sideline of the pitch.
Depending on that we still need a proper central midfielder who can connect the defense to the offense (Gündogan would be the dream), a proper back-up for Sancho as Wolf seems to be planned as a more defensive option either becoming a WB or a line-player and a potential legit back-up for the 9. And if Hazard is supposed to be in a more offensive role, then a back-up for Schulz is also necessary.
Those are also the positions media has rumours about. Either way - these players will not be refinanced by fees of the known players being sold. That budget has been eaten up by the current purchases already.
Personally I think the right-wing back-up position for Sancho definitely is important. And I would like to see a player there who can definitely play instead of Sancho against some of the weaker Bundesliga sides with some potential to soften the blow, if (unfortunately likely) Sancho is going to leave after the EC 2020 (I like the Ferran Torres rumour here). Also a central midfielder seems quite important. I don't think Dahoud has a future anymore and I don't want to have Brandt/Götze wasted on the offensive part of the double-6. A Striker and Left-Wingback back-up are more nice-to-haves.
It's remaining interesting. After the ongoing cups and with the official opening of the transfer window, things most likely going take an increased pace.
Edit: Obviously that is all quite simplified, because there are other aspects to the cost of transfers such as fees for the agents, potential taxes, etc.
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Dortmund still needs to buy a good main striker. Buy Haller and this squad is really nice.
I'm aiming to attend a game at every Bundesliga stadium, with only RB Leipzig and Freiburg remaining from the top flight. I've also got 10 Bundesliga 2 under my belt.
Union Berlin are a curious outfit ,extremely popular with fans of other German clubs, yet slightly sanctimonious, in a way that many English fans would find irritating.
However, my favourite venue is Bochum, which falls completely under the radar, despite being easily accessible from Dusseldorf and Cologne.
Their drinking area "The Bermuda Triangle" is fantastic.
Union Berlin are a curious outfit ,extremely popular with fans of other German clubs, yet slightly sanctimonious, in a way that many English fans would find irritating.
However, my favourite venue is Bochum, which falls completely under the radar, despite being easily accessible from Dusseldorf and Cologne.
Their drinking area "The Bermuda Triangle" is fantastic.
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Really solid transferwork so far, building up on an already good basis. With FC Bayern I have the feeling it is getting worse every week. We have five players leaving (Hummels, Ribery, Robben, James, Rafinha) with a sixth (Boateng) not unlikely to leave as well. On the plus side we have Arp, a 19year old who could not keep his promise during the last season in league two, Hernandez, who has been injured twice with his knee and Pavard, who played-okayish last season.
Rodri? Goes to City. Sane? Seemingly wants to stay at City. Hudson-Odoi?`Injured, seems to have no real ambition to change clubs. Werner? His performances have decreased last season, not sure if Bayern wants him.
So on the "what have we now"-side:
Goal: Neuer (more injury prone in the last two seasons) and Ulreich (solide backup)
Defense: Kimmich (top level) Süle (international level) Alaba (solid) and Boateng (if he stays). Hernandez and Pavard are question marks for me.
Midfield -> Coman and Gnabry (both injury prone). Davies (youngster). Mueller (performances vary) Martinez (solid) Tolisso (very injury prone), Thiago (solid), Goretzka (solid), Renato Sanches (will leave)
Striker: Lewy (top)
so all in all we have 18 players. with two likely to leave. leaves us at 16. With four players likely to suffer injuries (not counting Hernandez) and 2 players at a very young age who still have to find their way. Ah yeah and one striker for whom our "backup" is Mueller, who is not the type of striker like Lewy.
Bochum as a club has sort of vanished from most people's conscience and seems to be slowly bleeding out after getting relegated form the first division (especially as it's caught between Dortmund and Schalke) , but from my impression there is a broad consensus that their stadium is very charming in a "no nonsense proper football" kind of way and "Bermuda3eck" is probably the most prominent night life district in the area.
Freiburg are building a new stadium btw, if they don't Spurs it up you only have this season to visit the current one.
Kind of fits that Hoeneß shifted from telling the press "if you only knew to what we already have secured. But if we were to tell you already who we've got, then those who maybe wouldn't play anymore will be angry" in February to "we have spent €120m already. I honestly have to say, it's slowly getting on my nerves that were only being defined by our buys" [as in lack thereof] a couple of days ago.
On one hand I wouldn't be surprised if Bayern actually do spend another €150m - dwarfing their previous spending highs - but on the other a top class winger will eat half of that at least, so maybe even that sum won't be enough to buy sufficient depth.
Certainly puts allowing Bernat to leave for €5m a bit into perspective.
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Bernat was, imho, a slightly above average player. His problem was that at his time, we had a great first squad, but not so much great backups. From my point of view, we'd need someone for the wings, in case Gnabry or Coman is injured. Plus a backup for Lewy. And someone for left or right back: We need backups for Kimmich or Alaba, in case Pavard is not performing as expected. Midfield could be okay with Thiago / Martinez / Mueller in the central and Tolisso / Goretzka as backup. (and we'd have to keep boateng.)
According to SportBild [1] Bayern (respectively Salihamidzic) has met one of Dembélés Advisers (Marco Lichtsteiner) in March 2019. Dembélé seems to be a potential alternative to Sané, but the situation of the French at Barca is still unclear. Bayerns expects, that Sané and Dembélé are financially compareable investments.
I would prefer Dembélé over Sané. The Frech has just more talent and a broader set of skills. Doubts can be mentioned about his professionalism. The risk of buying a (more talented) Balotelli is there, but on the other hand, you get the chance to sign a (potential) world class player with abilities which are very rare.
[1] https://sportbild.bild.de/bundeslig...e-transfer-barcelona-sane-62863072.sport.html
I would prefer Dembélé over Sané. The Frech has just more talent and a broader set of skills. Doubts can be mentioned about his professionalism. The risk of buying a (more talented) Balotelli is there, but on the other hand, you get the chance to sign a (potential) world class player with abilities which are very rare.
[1] https://sportbild.bild.de/bundeslig...e-transfer-barcelona-sane-62863072.sport.html
While Sané may stay in Manchester and Dembele is expected early next week to have recovered enough from laughing hard to tell Hoeneß he won't take the offer. the mighty Brazzo may have secured New Zealands Sarpreet Singh, that is if the player doesn't decide he'd much rather join Huddersfield. Football-Europe is trembling in fear.
Still not convinced of the Hummels transfer.
Brandt, Hazard, Balerdi, Schulz... are all good signings i think. With the exeption of Hazard. He will maybe be disappointing, i dont rate him so high. But Brandt and Schulz are 100% great, the Pulisic-money wisely spend, he was on a decline and offered nearly nothing the season, it was a perfect selling. Brandt is an update on that.
With the Hummels transfer..puh. Why we buy an old Defender who stands in the way of our great youth players? The argument is they can learn from him, but i can see complications in the locker room. In my eyes Zagadou, Diallo and Akanji made a huge progress and are just one step away building a first class defence. Now there is a Hummels who enjoys listen to himself and his wannabe-intelligence. But maybe they told him: teach the young guys something, and dont be mad if you are not in the first squad, and he likes to show some responsibility. And maybe they thought of an experience axis in every part of the squad to stabilize the mentality, so you got Hummels, Witsel, Reus.
Brandt, Hazard, Balerdi, Schulz... are all good signings i think. With the exeption of Hazard. He will maybe be disappointing, i dont rate him so high. But Brandt and Schulz are 100% great, the Pulisic-money wisely spend, he was on a decline and offered nearly nothing the season, it was a perfect selling. Brandt is an update on that.
With the Hummels transfer..puh. Why we buy an old Defender who stands in the way of our great youth players? The argument is they can learn from him, but i can see complications in the locker room. In my eyes Zagadou, Diallo and Akanji made a huge progress and are just one step away building a first class defence. Now there is a Hummels who enjoys listen to himself and his wannabe-intelligence. But maybe they told him: teach the young guys something, and dont be mad if you are not in the first squad, and he likes to show some responsibility. And maybe they thought of an experience axis in every part of the squad to stabilize the mentality, so you got Hummels, Witsel, Reus.
Do you guys want a new thread or I should just rename the years in title? and if you want a new thread then someone take initiative and make it. I'll sticky it.
Wasn't there some Hoeneß Interview about how despicable Dembele's strike was and how he would have fined him 100k per day? He might be afraid to go there.
I suppose a new thread would be cleaner, but does anyone actually look at the openers?
I suppose a new thread would be cleaner, but does anyone actually look at the openers?
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I noticed Xaver Schlager has signed for Wolfsburg today, I suspect I'll be watching more and more of the bundesliga this year, loads of decent signings scattered about.
It's a shame. I just read, that apparently Kabak will not move to FC Bayern - but seems to go to Schalke. If this turns out to be true, I cannot help it anymore. Hadn't heard too much of Kabak before, so was thinking "okay..so we just get second-class players instead of players like Rodri, Sane.." But if now even those prefer to go to other clubs.. I mean..who are we going to get at all? The transfer-strategy atm is a complete mess. The list of players we didn't get or most likely won't get (Kabak, Rodri, Sane, de Ligt, Zyiech, Pogba,Hudson-Odoi, Pepe) is becoming longer than the list of players we have.
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It would be a good idea to wait a couple of days with that, because the fixture list is getting released tomorrow.
TBH i wouldn't be very excited about playing under Kovac too, he clearly doesn't have what it takes... I think having a mediocre(at best) coach definitely limits our pulling power and its gonna show.
Okay tag me when it happens.
Schalke on the other hand..
Ya sure if you count any rumor... (also Pogba wtf? Why even name him? He was certainly never a candiate and it's also obvious that we are not going for Hudson-Odoi or Pepe if we aim for Sane or at least Dembele). I really don't get the panic some people have, the transfermarkt has hardly started yet but it seems everything has to happen NOW or its doom, doom, doom. So predictable and boring at this point.
You are disappointed we didn't get a player you barely heard of before? Bayern was able to get Hernandez and Pavard, 2 defender at over 110M but not getting nameless Kabak is a disappointment?
Bayern is playing Lucas and Sule in CB with Pavard as a backup, Kabak is a young promising defender who wants to go to a team he is assured of playing and not just sitting on the bench
Journalist links players to every club that does not make it true. Pogba really? Our main target in attack is Sane, if it doesn't work we have other fall back options. If we end the window without signing anyone then we can make a judgment
So today the biggest ever investment in German football was announced.
Hertha BSC will receive 125 million € right away and supposedly yet another 125 million € next season for 49.9% of the club.
These numbers may sound underwhelming to English ears but they're pretty huge for a German mid-table team.
Unfortunately Hertha had amassed over 100 million € in debt so they won't be able to invest it all but it definitely changes their outlook. They could turn into a top 6 team (like they used to be not that long ago) if they invest the money right.
Hertha BSC will receive 125 million € right away and supposedly yet another 125 million € next season for 49.9% of the club.
These numbers may sound underwhelming to English ears but they're pretty huge for a German mid-table team.
Unfortunately Hertha had amassed over 100 million € in debt so they won't be able to invest it all but it definitely changes their outlook. They could turn into a top 6 team (like they used to be not that long ago) if they invest the money right.
They get 125 million now for 37,5%,i don't think they will get the same amount for 12.4%.
Edit says i was wrong, apparently it is approximately 100 million for the remaining 12.4%.
Bild claims they will. Other sources say it will be 200+ millions overall. The second payment will definitely be overpriced (for accounting reasons).
I doubt a club will just pump a one time windfall into transfers. That sounds a bit reckless. I'd guess they will rather use it to handle their debt and build their new stadium (that's still an ambition, right?) without bleeding out on the sporting side.