Bloody hell, what happened here?
Bundesliga 2018/19
- Thread starter uamini
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Bloody hell, what happened here?
Maybe Hoeneß met someone who's as big a cnut as he ist? Either way, it's best to ignore all public statements made by Hoeneß.
Leverkusen is pretty much the same, their short term game is shit because Herrlich can't seem to get it right and Dragovic is still stinking out the place in central defense. Besides that, they managed to sign their 4 biggest talents on long term contracts (Brandt, Tah, Bailey, Havertz) and will also make a shit tonne of money on them. Except if Bayern agrees a huge free agent contract 2 years in advance to sign them on a free
And that's the reason why the rest of the league is so shite. You shouldn't invest into a big cashout at the end of the contract when it's inevitable that you're selling them. You should invest into points. Ideally, points that lead to a championship. Bayern can only field what, 24 players? Try as they might, they just can't buy the entire league. So there's players left to challenge them, do that instead of thinking about their market value. Why is Bayern winning every season? Because the other teams decide they'll be champions before playday 1. When was the last time a team actually considered themselves a contender? Must have been Dortmund in 2013, right? And apart from them?
I've recently wondered if sacrificing 50+1 wouldn't be the right move to fix the league. We need to shake things up.
So they speak English at Madrid? Or Turin? Has nothing to do with language, mate.
Would be a very unpopular opinion but I agree with this.
Surely if we're talking about coaches from France, Spain and Argentina, we can all agree that learning German is a lot more difficult and offers a lot less possibilities later on compared to English or Spanish. It's obviously a massive disadvantage. So much easier to learn English in general and also much easier to learn Spanish or Italian if you're from a country where the main language is from the same language familiy.
No they speak spanish or italian which is why you have a lot of argentinian coaches there and why the italian league has very few foreign coaches so of course it has something to do with the language.
Just ask coaches themselves and why Klopp thought he could train a team in England but wouldn't have picked one in a different country (Tuchel speaks french btw).
The language barrier CAN be overcome but it is definitely a big hurddl, especially for unproven coaches. It's one thing for coaches like Ancelotti, Guardiola and so on to deal with it (and even they admitted it made things a lot more difficult) but it's a lot harder for those outside of the very top level and it baffles me that we even have to discuss this. We are talking about a profession that is pretty much JUST about communication, it's what coaches do all day long.
I see where you're coming from. I just don't think it's easier to teach 24 lads English vs. teaching a coach German. You may have a point, but while I am personally a big fan of the English language, I don't see your method feasible for everyone. And you'd still have the problem of attracting talent in the first place. The Bundesliga isn't as attractive as it should be. Regardless of language. Also, who are you thinking of? The types of coaches that would bring us forward can be counted with one hand. The rest is just as rubbish as our domestic managers.
The real question I'd like to ask is: Are our German managers that bad or are they just lacking money? It's not like Germany doesn't understand football, is it? I'd rather experiment without 50+1 for a while than change the default business language to English. This is a bit romantic, but the connection between fans and the club also happens in a language. I appreciated Guardiola speaking German whenever he could. I did not appreciate Ancelotti giving up after a few weeks. Remember Trapattoni? He was bad. But fans still remember him fondly, if only for that one rant he did in German. We would be cooling off the relationship between the manager and the fans if it was suddenly all English. Could that be a problem? Could it touch the last thing that we can still boast about, the fan-club relationship?
You bring up some good points, though.
Edit: Sorry about the constant double posting. I'm used to posting to a forum where it recognizes double posts and combines them for me after the fact.
Wait, what? No, that's not really what I meant. I agree that it doesn't make sense and I think it's important for foreign players to learn German if they want to feel welcome and happy living in Germany. Players that don't learn German usually leave quickly again. It's simply a big disadvantage and we'll continue to struggle to attract foreign coaches (outside of the German speaking/closely related countries like Austria, Switzerland or the Netherlands) to small and midtable German clubs.
Ah, gotcha. Yes, it is.
On the other hand, if you take Germany, Austria, The Netherlands and Switzerland into account... I know it's silly, but if you look at x players per 100000 capita, surely we have an advantage right there. I think language or coaches aren't the main issue, really. I think coaches simply do not have the tools to compete with Bayern at the moment. Look at Stuttgart, Gomez is their star striker. A player Bayern sorted out 5 years ago. Why is he even playing for Stuttgart at this stage? He's old. He's never again reached the (dubious IMO) quality he had at Bayern. Why not put an 18 year old there if you're going to admit defeat anyway? It's the same mentality that destroys HSV. Buy old farts instead of going aggressively forward with youth players. Short term goals? Who cares about that, the other teams are shite, too. It's not like the Bundesliga is actually competetive at this stage. If I was a midleague team I'd fear the relegated upstarts more than established teams like Schalke that lack confidence and a game plan. Because they haven't yet learned that in the Bundesliga you have 17 clubs on a non-aggression pact and one team that ignored the memo.
A big stadium alone won't win games. And clubs need to get back to buying points instead of... prestige, I guess?
Sorry, bit ranty. But it is as they predicted, after X years of championships even Bayern fans want to see at least some challenge, even if it may cost us the championship at the end.
Edit: One more thing about 50+1. It would enable clubs to deny players transfers the second they get a good value on transfermarkt.de. I'd like some of those kids being forced to sit their contract out on the bench or in the stands. Clubs have let player agents run over them way too much recently and should take back some control in who's playing for whom.
You're talking about the same Stuttgart whose three most expensive recent signings have an average age of around 20? The same Stuttgart who spent €26m of their €35m summer budget on 20 year olds? You criticise them because they also buy a couple of very experienced players to give their squad a solid backbone and their youngsters someone to lead and mentor them?
It's also not like other leagues somehow have everyone challenging for the title. That's left to a select few and the rest is just trying to keep afloat and improve steadily.
We already discussed 50+1 a lot a couple of days ago, so I'll keep this brief: abolishing 50+1 doesn't magically put money into a club's bank account or absolve them of financially responsibilities. At the moment it's basically only Qatar and Abu Dhabi who do that.
not a bad rule.
In this case though, not only Hoeneß and Salihamidzic, but also Boateng (who wanted the move badly) expressed their "bewilderment" about the PSGs negotiation tactics. I can only assume they wanted to re-negotate stuff that already was agreed upon (i.e. money, most likely). What annoyed Hoeneß on top of that was the interest in Sanches, which apparently was there one moment and gone the next.
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If you look at the team data at whoscored.com and you sort it for passing and see that the other German CL participants are ranked 56, 68 and 86 of the 98 clubs in the Top 5 leagues it tells you all.
I think the problem is not the player quality, the money or the coaches but that in the Bundesliga working against the ball seems to be a lot more important than working with the ball.
I think the problem is not the player quality, the money or the coaches but that in the Bundesliga working against the ball seems to be a lot more important than working with the ball.
Based on a 2 match sample size? That's great!
Hoffenheim, Leverkusen and Dortmund all have positive approaches.
Herrlich is a bad coach. Tayfun Korkut is a terrible coach. Roger Schmidt was a one-trick pony. Sami Hyypiä was shit. Robin Dutt was shit. Sascha Lewandowski didn't really work out. Their last good manager was Jupp Heynckes. Rudi Völler is clueless when it comes to finding a decent manager and a good manager makes all the difference for a club like Leverkusen. Its normal, that you don't get it right all the time, but Völler gets it consistently wrong, sticks way too long to his wrong choices and ends up appointing another idiot. Considering their budget, their recruiting is great/exceptional.
I think that's harsh. Schmidt might have turned out to be one dimensional in the end, but he delivered for two years and had some interesting ideas.
Dutt was sacked before season's end.
Leaving aside his personal issues I think Lewandowski was a promising coach at the time who earned his chance. Hyypiä was just a front for him.
It's not like Leverkusen can just pick and choose, as I said earlier I think that German football lacks coaches in the 50+ age bracket and Leverkusen is the kind of club which suffers most from it, because Bayern, Dortmund and to lesser extends Leipzig or Schalke take their pick and then there is little left for Leverkusen.
There are no safe choices for them, they have to take a gamble with every appointment.
To fire someone like Schmidt because he only delivers CL football but doesn't seem able to challenge for the title would be madness, when his replacement would be someone from lower down the food chain, who perhaps never had the players to think about playing positional football.
If I remember correctly their short list last summer was Tuchel > Nagelsmann > Favre > Bosz. Tuchel told them to get lost, Nagelsmann didn't want to or couldn't leave, Favre wasn't allowed to leave and either would've been snapped up by Dortmund anyway, as did Bosz in the end, so they had to get creative.
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Absolutely no. That is the essence of German football and not only what makes it unique amongst all the top leagues, but what makes it attractive. The amazing attendance and atmosphere is all brought about due to the 50+1 rule and the importance given to fan representation amongst clubs. The youth system is still strong in Germany and they will continue to develop great talents enough to keep the Bundesliga amongst the top 4-5 in Europe. That's enough for me. Greediness can destroy the fanbase.
Yea I don't particularly rate Herrlich as well. Haven't seen anything special to suggest he can take this talented squad of players to the next level and pose a challenge to the title. I liked Schmidt a lot more, he made Leverkusen look really good in Europe and was unlucky to go out to A.Madrid on penalties one time. I was hoping they stuck with him more.
Schmidt was interesting, fun to watch and had reasonable results. I don't consider him to be a bad manager, but I also don't think that he was a sustainable choice. Notwithstanding Leverkusen are the prime example of a club, that suffers from bad managerial appointments/decisions. Naturally clubs like Leverkusen have to take some risks when appointing a manager (all clubs have). Taking risks mean, that you get it occasionally wrong. Yet Völler is just shit at identifying good managers and ends up appointing bad ones. The same is true for other clubs. A shocking number of traditional big clubs in Germany have shambolic management. On the flip-side many of the smaller teams (e.g. Augsburg, Freiburg, Mainz) have very stable structures and competent guys in charge.
Henrique has said to the Bayern Munich bosses that he will make a offer for Boateng in the next days but then that has never happened and he must have done that 2-3 times.
Boateng was very interested to move to PSG but he thinks PSG's/Henrique's transfer behaviour was weird too.
Well
Even if Henrique is incompetent, Hoeneß simply shouldn't comment publicly in that way. It's embarrassing. Not that I expect any better from him, but even when he's right, he makes himself look like a huge cnut. It's incredible.
Nothing wrong with what he said. (just a general comment, not to disagree with the messenger)
Well, what did he say wrong? Winning is the only thing that matters.
He put it quite well a couple of seasons ago already: "I signed a contract that pretty much says that it's my job to make the league as boring as possible."
Why not? Of course it's embarassing, for PSG.
Guess Bayern fans would like to win the Champions League again though.
Nonsense. There's absolutely no need to advice PSG on how to do their job. They themselves are responsible to look into the work of their employees. If the CEO/owner/whoever isn't happy with the job Henrique is doing, they'll kick him out. It's one thing to maybe answer a question regarding the negotiations with something like "it didn't go well". It's just arrogant and totally out of place to publicly lecture another club the way Hoeness did (and way too often does; same as Rummenigge). It's embarrassing for us and shows an absolute lack of class and it doesn't matter at all if Henrique is incompetent or not.
I mean, seriously... since when is that a new thing? There's no one in the domestic league left to irritate Hoeneß, why wouldn't he do the same internationally? I'm long past embarassment. If people haven't noticed Hoeneß antics by now, there's no helping them.
I se there is Bayern-Bayer on saturday. Another defeat for Neverkusen
Paco Alcacer with his first goal for Dortmund, who are 3:1 up in the 90th minute.
Sancho with his second assist in 3 substitute appearances. Deserves a start now especially with the important of the assist tonight to make it 2-1.
Great goal from Paco on his debut, albeit it was a bit deflected. Sancho looks a great prospect. Strange that Guardiola let him leave.
Pack also played a very vital role in the creation of the 2:1 with clever movement and the pre assist with a precise lay-off.
He was very good at Valencia. Think Barca were too a big step for him.
Dortmund have gone from being one of the most exciting teams to watch in Europe, let alone Germany, under Klopp to one of the most drab ones this season. It was torture to watch most of that match.
This did improve after Sancho and Paco came on, hope that continues into the future as well. Favre seems to be building more conservatively, better that I guess than what Bosz did last season with starting with a strong attack and then failing.
This did improve after Sancho and Paco came on, hope that continues into the future as well. Favre seems to be building more conservatively, better that I guess than what Bosz did last season with starting with a strong attack and then failing.
Matches on the Friday following the international break are rarely the most exciting.
Dortmund did what they needed to do, and that was to get the three points.
Disappointed with the result. I certainly hope that Eintracht don't try and emulate Köln from last season. . . In Europe but at the bottom of the Bundesliga.
The next league game (at home to Leipzig) is now of utmost importance.
Leverkusen starts in Munich which 8 defensive field players...
Crazy match in Munich so far. Pen executed twice to give Bayer the lead, after Neuer had made two saves but Bayern players had entered the box too soon. Then two stunners from Tolisso and Robben to turn the game.