I think the excellent performances in the CL saved Hecking last season. With the 2nd place finish and cup win another year back in the past now and no European football to detract from the failure in the league, he'll be gone in January unless he can turn it around.
Bundesliga 2016/17
- Thread starter Piratesoup
- Start date
Leipzig are doing well i see. Didnt think they would be this good already so early. Reminds me of Hoffenheim when they were Herbstmeister that one season years ago.
As a non-German I can respect the view about bypassing the 50+1 but I can't really relate as an outsider. Like Balu mentioned I basically just overlook the Red Bull aspect and do not purchase Red Bull products. I do like what Rangnick is achieving though inside that structure. In today's fast paced football market, I don't think that would have been possible without the corporate injection of funds.
Yes. While I don't like Red Bull as a product, I find their investments interesting. The company is interesting to observe at least. They started sponsoring break dancing competitions over a decade ago right when the first organizers around the world were starting to organize international tournaments. I think groups in France (Juste Debout) and Japan (don't remember) were before Red Bull, but Red Bull started organizing some well produced competitions. While there are some negatives to their model, they have done quite a bit towards moving break dancing from a street hobby into a validated sport where its possible to actual make a living competing.
Football is the biggest sport they invested in so far, though. The only comparable case in terms of size is Formula One, a sport which is struggling for years. Football on the other hand produces more money than ever and certainly does not need an additional investor.
I can see the merits of Redbull´s engagement for the Leipzig area and believe that there is great potential for organic growth. I don´t mind that there is no tradition in the club yet as I believe that every club should get the chance to actually develop tradition in the first place.
My problem are with their tools how they artificially boost their growth and that for me goes beyond them bypassing the 50+1 rule which allows them net investments on the level of national top clubs.
This starts with their youth recruitment. I´m still in contact with several scouts from the time I myself contemplated going preofessional and my home club organizes one of the most prestigious U13 tournaments of the country (with usually around a dozen Bundesliga clubs and several International clubs attending). I learned very quickly why RBL is nicknamed "the raiders" around here. The delegation they send to the last tournaments was massive, they had around a dozen scouts with them. RBL is by far the most ruthless recruiter in East Germany, going as far as offering five digit payments to the parents of 12 year olds to recruit them. Officially they have three U13 teams, inofficially it is rumoured to have enough players connected to the club for six teams. Now, their training facilities are top notch, but I see a lot of players falling through the grid at a club with as high ambitions as Leipzig.
The second thing that massively rubs me the wrong way is their relationship to Salzburg. They basically have a breeding ground in a different league (which makes said league fairly uncompetive) and move the players back and forth. The "transfer fees" they pay are nothing more than a farce at is just moving money from one pocket of the company to the other.
Basically, they have not only an edge compard to their peers in terms of higher investment power, but also ways to circumvent the rules of the transfer market.
well, is that really so? they couldn't actually force players not to sign at whatever club, let alone switch them between RB-affiliated clubs as long as the player's camp does not agree!? do they indeed attempt to somewhat forcefully trade certain players between their franchises, and/or do they sign them with the prospect of "promotion" to another RB franchise? if all of this is uncertain and/or according to the rules, we might as well have to give them the benefit of the doubt, rather than be hostile and cringeworthy - what with the refusal of mutual match-day scarves and all..
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Well, in the last three seasons alone 15 players moved between both clubs so I don´t know what giving them the benefit of the doubt is really accomplishing here. I did not say that the will of the players don´t matter aswell, but that transfer fees have become pretty much obsolete as it is like moving money from one branch of the company to the next.
For me, RB Salzburg has essentially become RB Leipzig II with the added benefit that in difference to the second teams of other German Clubs, they are not restricted by the rule book of the DFB and UEFA (second teams are not allowed to go further than the third league in Germany and unable to participate in International competitions). Yet another advantage their little engagement and construct offers them.
That being said, I do agree that some of the actions against Leipzig have been unneeded or even downright silly, but I will probably never root for them, certainly not against clubs who are in the Bundesliga based on good management and many years of hard work and not by winning the lottery and becoming a marketing tool.
I have no problem rooting for Leipzig against Hamburg, who are still in the league because of a sugardaddy despite crazy mismanagement. Just because Hamburg is a big traditional club it's kinda accepted that they get money from a billionaire all the time. Different standards and all that. And yes I know, that you dislike Hamburg as much as I do
.If we have to have this joke of a club called RB, please let some other plastic club go down in the 2.Bundesliga. Would be so better. There are enough candidates which i would like to see in the 1. Bundesliga.
I have no problem rooting for Leipzig against Hamburg, who are still in the league because of a sugardaddy despite crazy mismanagement. Just because Hamburg is a big traditional club it's kinda accepted that they get money from a billionaire all the time. Different standards and all that. And yes I know, that you dislike Hamburg as much as I do
True, but like I said before the whole tradition or capitalism debate for that matter (which is especially amusing when it comes from camps like ours) does not really effect my judgement. I´m also perfectly capable of following a football game without rooting for either Team. Leipzig-Hamburg would be one of them, you guys vs. the Blues another. In games like these I mostly wait for someone to make a fool of themselves so I can banter with some of my mates.
So Hecking lost his job after all. A little too late but it's the right decision.
Hmm, what are the opinions, was Hecking the main problem or are the players "uncoachable" (which would be Allofs' fault as well)? I'm not sure, if a real tactician (something Hecking obviously isn't) could get alot more out of players like Draxler.
I understand why they sacked Hecking, but they are fecked anyway. Their biggest problem is, that their squad is extremely mediocre. It is incredible how much dross they bought over the years. Rodriguez and Gustavo aside the team is full of mid-table players. I don’t know most of their youngsters, but their squad seems to lack players, that can (realistically) step up over the course of 1-3 years.
They had a narrow window to establish themselves as top club and failed. Throwing money at players won’t really help them and the top youngsters have better prospects somewhere else. I just hope that VW is losing patience and pulls the plug.
Draxler hasn't a had one truly convincing season since his breakthrough though. And he's getting too old to be all promise.
I think the fact that Blaszczykowski is captaining the team after just joining the club says all there is to know about the squad. Iirc one of their players was also quoted with "I've never seen so many players trying to leave at the same time", during the summer window.
what are your thoughts on mor?
Honestly, he's been meh to me. Good dribbling skills but atrocious finishing.
I never understood how Hecking fit the bill for Wolfsburg's ambitions in the first place.
He is just still incredibly raw and lacks composure in the final third, which makes him take shots from unfavourable places. His shooting technique is actually pretty good. Sometimes people forget that he is in his first year as professional.
He asked a question, I replied to that. Obviously I realise it's his first year as a pro but I'm calling a spade a spade here.
Valerien Ismael will take over for now. Have the feeling it will be Thomas Schaaf. Doesn't that seem plausible?
That would be another stupid decision. Schaaf is long past it and doesn't understand modern football.
I agree with Balu there. It seems plausible but it would be stupid. I just doubt that Ismael will get alot of weeks, even if he would be relatively successful in the first games, because he doesn't seem to be a "face" for VW. But on the other hand Hecking wasn't one either...
Maybe so. I just can't think of any candidates beyond Schaaf at the moment.
Of course that's another reason why it's so idiotic to change coaches so early in a season.
They should have tried to get Favre in the summer, now they're fecked.
i thought hecking was a competent coach. i guess with KDB leaving it made it tough to keep going. thought they did okay last season. not sure what happened this season
They did? They finished 8th with the 3rd most expensive squad. That was underwhelming. The only saving grace was a good CL campaign. It was not all down to him, though(eventhough I never rated Hecking higher than midtable) as Allofs also did him no favour selling KdB and Perisic so late in the Summer window.
Yeah performance wise i thought they did okay. mixed season
Bayer Leverkusen vs Hoffenheim has begun. Volland starts against his former club
First time in a while that we play a two striker system. Our away kits look stunning btw. Very good job by Puma this season in that department.
Kevin Volland given a straight red for stopping the opponent as the last man. That too in 6 MINUTES!!Dortmund for feck sake
My god, we suck at defending set pieces...
feck yes
Club legend Cohen scoring for Ingolstadt
Club legend Cohen scoring for Ingolstadt
Dortmund simply very unlucky with so many first teamers out.
Beautiful goal by Hoffenheim constructed from good movement and passing. Demirbay scores to put them 0-1 up.
I´m sorry, but this is no excuse. Aside of Park every single player we field today would be undisputed starter for the opposing side. We can not be praised for the squad depth and then blame injuries.
Wow that is two.
Brandt misses a good chance. Baumgartlinger has been useless so far. Why is Bender playing RB? That's a waste.
Dortmund wake up.