Bundesliga 19/20

Pagh Wraith said:
Seems Hoeneß wants to go out with a bang. :lol:
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Its just a distraction from their own failure(s).
Hoeness month ago: "CHO is an interesting player..bla bla bla..if you would know who we have already signed...bla bla bla".
News today: Chelsea annouced a new contracts with CHO.
 
Looks like Bosz went back to his 3-6-1, compared to the match against Moscow. Tah and Bellarabi benched, Bailey not even in the squad (don't know if he's injured), fairly drastic changes.
Without a natural wide player I fear they might struggle to create something again.
 
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Reus's finishing cost Bvb three points against Barca and he's at it again. What's wrong with him? His overall play is something else though. Some of his passes have been top draw.
 
Reus has been standing out for the things he didn't do for several weeks now.
 
do.ob said:
Looks like Bosz went back to his 3-6-1, compared to the match against Moscow. Tah and Bellarabi benched, Bailey not even in the squad (don't know if he's injured), fairly drastic changes.
Without a natural wide player I fear they might struggle to create something again.
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We are much more dangerous in this formation. It's been like this last season, too, with Alario in the center, Volland on the left and Weiser on the right. Personally I think both Bellarabi and Bailey should not be starting for us. They provide almost nothing to our game. Useful as subs when we are in front because of their speed but their decision making is so atrocious it really hurts when we are making the play. Same goes for Amiri by the way, not convinced he's got the technical quality for Bosz' brand of football.
 
Reus went into a rant in the post match interview, slamming the interviewer for questioning the team's 'mentality' / 'mindset' / 'attitude' (not quite sure which one fits the meaning of Mentalität best in this context ;) ).
"We were stupid [for conceding the 2-2], but spare me your mentality bullshit. Same shit every week."
 
After 5 match days it's time for some way too early "hot" takes:

Bayern seem to have kept their 2019 stability, if Lewandowski stays fit they'll probably get dominant domestic results.

Hummels has been a massive signing for Dortmund, but last season's problems still persists. Conceding several goals from dead balls already and dropping points against Frankfurt, by allowing their opposition to pin them back too easily. They might fall behind quickly in the table.

Nagelsmann already had a massive impact at Leipzig, if they can keep this up (which I'm not 100% of) they will challenge for the title.

Losing Brandt has pulled the plug on Leverkusen's attack and Havertz in particular. Unless guys like Bellarabi/Bailey find a purple patch Bosz will be in trouble soon imho.

It's still early days, but Rose's start at Gladbach has been a bit underwhelming and not just in terms of results.

Losing their whole front 3 was too much for Frankfurt, they will drop back into midtable.

Freiburg have been blessed with an easy match schedule and will fall off sharply soon.

They probably aren't as good as 5th place, but Wagner had a good fairly good impact on Schalke.

Zehner said:
We are much more dangerous in this formation. It's been like this last season, too, with Alario in the center, Volland on the left and Weiser on the right. Personally I think both Bellarabi and Bailey should not be starting for us. They provide almost nothing to our game. Useful as subs when we are in front because of their speed but their decision making is so atrocious it really hurts when we are making the play. Same goes for Amiri by the way, not convinced he's got the technical quality for Bosz' brand of football.
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I don't see it. Before the sending off Leverkusen had precisely one good play against Berlin - the offside goal, understat has Leverkusen at 0.14 xG at half time.
Volland doesn't have any winger qualities, he's neither a good dribbler nor a good playmaker, he's a "win more" kind of player there. When the team gets/creates space he can chime in with a goal or assists here and there, but when the team struggles (as it does quite a bit this season) he contributes precious little and leaves your left flank dead.

The team as a whole is static, because there isn't enough creativity and support from the center and when your flanks consist of Volland and Havertz, who isn't really a winger either imho, defenders have no trouble shutting them down, too. I can see lots of games going the course of the Moscow match: Leverkusen having 70-80% possession without any real edge to it and opponents just watch them pass it sideways before pouncing on mistakes, for example when Wendell has one of his brain farts.
 
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do.ob said:
After 5 match days it's time for some way too early "hot" takes:

Bayern seem to have kept their 2019 stability, if Lewandowski stays fit they'll probably get dominant domestic results.

Hummels has been a massive signing for Dortmund, but last season's problems still persists. Conceding several goals from dead balls already and dropping points against Frankfurt, by allowing their opposition to pin them back too easily. They might fall behind quickly in the table.

Nagelsmann already had a massive impact at Leipzig, if they can keep this up (which I'm not 100% of) they will challenge for the title.

Losing Brandt has pulled the plug on Leverkusen's attack and Havertz in particular. Unless guys like Bellarabi/Bailey find a purple patch Bosz will be in trouble soon imho.

It's still early days, but Rose's start at Gladbach has been a bit underwhelming and not just in terms of results.

Losing their whole front 3 was too much for Frankfurt, they will drop back into midtable.

Freiburg have been blessed with an easy match schedule and will fall off sharply soon.

They probably aren't as good as 5th place, but Wagner had a good fairly good impact on Schalke.



I don't see it. Before the sending off Leverkusen had precisely one good play against Berlin - the offside goal, understat has Leverkusen at 0.14 xG at half time.
Volland doesn't have any winger qualities, he's neither a good dribbler nor a good playmaker, he's a "win more" kind of player there. When the team gets/creates space he can chime in with a goal or assists here and there, but when the team struggles (as it does quite a bit this season) he contributes precious little and leaves your left flank dead.

The team as a whole is static, because there isn't enough creativity and support from the center and when your flanks consist of Volland and Havertz, who isn't really a winger either imho, defenders have no trouble shutting them down, too. I can see lots of games going the course of the Moscow match: Leverkusen having 70-80% possession without any real edge to it and opponents just watch them pass it sideways before pouncing on mistakes, for example when Wendell has one of his brain farts.
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Well, we are talking about what, three games? In the first two matches the xG was alright. It's quite obvious the team was in a negative spiral. The win against Union was the first step in the right direction.

I also don't care if Volland is a good dribbler or playmaker as long as his impact is greater than that of Bellarabi and Bailey combined by doing simple things right. He's like Pedro or Müller in that regard while Bella and Bailey are just stupid in many situations.

The Benders, Bailey, Bellarabi, Amiri - there just were too many players that folowed a 'head through the wall' approach. That was also the case against Union in the beginning. The return of Weiser will be very important, just like Alario's winning a starting position and Demirbay's recovery. Now only Amiri needs to be benched, preferably for Paulinho.

By the way, Havertz hasn't played one single game as RW under Bosz. That's just the media not understanding that we aren't playing in a 4-3-3.
 
Zehner said:
Well, we are talking about what, three games? In the first two matches the xG was alright. It's quite obvious the team was in a negative spiral. The win against Union was the first step in the right direction.

I also don't care if Volland is a good dribbler or playmaker as long as his impact is greater than that of Bellarabi and Bailey combined by doing simple things right. He's like Pedro or Müller in that regard while Bella and Bailey are just stupid in many situations.

The Benders, Bailey, Bellarabi, Amiri - there just were too many players that folowed a 'head through the wall' approach. That was also the case against Union in the beginning. The return of Weiser will be very important, just like Alario's winning a starting position and Demirbay's recovery. Now only Amiri needs to be benched, preferably for Paulinho.

By the way, Havertz hasn't played one single game as RW under Bosz. That's just the media not understanding that we aren't playing in a 4-3-3.
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I mean the opening match was against Paderborn, Baily was starting on the left, Volland in the center and the second win was against Düsseldorf with Bailey and Bellarabi starting, so basically the setup you want Bosz to abandon?
I don't disagree with the Müller comparison, but I don't see him being a preferred choice out wide either. You could even see it during the play that ended with Leverkusen's first goal: he's got a decent dribbling opportunity, plenty of space for once and instead of taking on a promotion side defender with pace he just fires a hopeful early cross straight into the man in front of him. Having the ball bounce back to him, the defender giving him space and that long shot going in was pure luck. 24 passes (second lowest on the team), 0 dribblings, 1 key pass, 2 shots. It's no surprise teams find it easy to defend when you just give up 1/3 of the pitch like that.

https://i.imgur.com/tXJlLrV.png
I mean sure, Bosz likes his wide players to drift into the half spaces eventually, but he spends most of his time out on the right.
 
do.ob said:
I mean the opening match was against Paderborn, Baily was starting on the left, Volland in the center and the second win was against Düsseldorf with Bailey and Bellarabi starting, so basically the setup you want Bosz to abandon?
I don't disagree with the Müller comparison, but I don't see him being a preferred choice out wide either. You could even see it during the play that ended with Leverkusen's first goal: he's got a decent dribbling opportunity, plenty of space for once and instead of taking on a promotion side defender with pace he just fires a hopeful early cross straight into the man in front of him. Having the ball bounce back to him, the defender giving him space and that long shot going in was pure luck. 24 passes (second lowest on the team), 0 dribblings, 1 key pass, 2 shots. It's no surprise teams find it easy to defend when you just give up 1/3 of the pitch like that.

https://i.imgur.com/tXJlLrV.png
I mean sure, Bosz likes his wide players to drift into the half spaces eventually, but he spends most of his time out on the right.
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Most of that is true but in all honesty, I don't think you have watched much of Bailey and Bellarabi during this and the past season. Volland rarely dribbles, yes, but he's still got more end product out of his dribblings than Bailey and Bellarabi although they try it much more frequently. I honestly can't remember a single time in the past 10 games when a dribble by Bailey or Bellarabi lead to a goal scoring opportunity whereas Volland created at least some chances for himself and others through dribbles. He's also got a much better shot than both of the others, especially Bellarabi whose finishing and crossing is probably the worst in the whole team. I think you underestimate Volland a little bit, he's done some great movements to get past defenders in this season already.

So yeah, I want Bailey, Bellarabi, Bender, Amiri and maybe even Wendell out of the starting eleven and Weiser, Alario and Paulinho in. IMO, our best formation would be something like this:

------------------Alario------------------
--Volland---Paulinho--Havertz--Weiser--
-----------Demirbay--Aranguiz----------
--------Bender---Tah---Dragovic--------


I'm also fine with giving Diaby a chance, though. However, the formation above is the closest to our most successful line up last season which was probably


------------------Alario------------------
--Volland---Brandt--Havertz---Weiser--
-----------Baumgartlinger--Aranguiz----
--------Bender---Tah---Dragovic--------
 
Fans demanded Volland on the left wing and Alario starting upfront for weeks and Bailey´s injury probably made that constellation against Union possible. A bit like last season when Bellarabi and Bailey were both injured in the last weeks and we won 6 (?) out of the last 7 games to gain the Champions League spot and Alario was scoring for fun. Vollands impact on the wing is far superior to anything Bailey did in that position in the last 2 years. It´s no coincedence that Alario and Volland both scored against Union. They have the best end product in the team.
 
Zehner said:
Most of that is true but in all honesty, I don't think you have watched much of Bailey and Bellarabi during this and the past season. Volland rarely dribbles, yes, but he's still got more end product out of his dribblings than Bailey and Bellarabi although they try it much more frequently. I honestly can't remember a single time in the past 10 games when a dribble by Bailey or Bellarabi lead to a goal scoring opportunity whereas Volland created at least some chances for himself and others through dribbles. He's also got a much better shot than both of the others, especially Bellarabi whose finishing and crossing is probably the worst in the whole team. I think you underestimate Volland a little bit, he's done some great movements to get past defenders in this season already.

So yeah, I want Bailey, Bellarabi, Bender, Amiri and maybe even Wendell out of the starting eleven and Weiser, Alario and Paulinho in. IMO, our best formation would be something like this:

------------------Alario------------------
--Volland---Paulinho--Havertz--Weiser--
-----------Demirbay--Aranguiz----------
--------Bender---Tah---Dragovic--------


I'm also fine with giving Diaby a chance, though. However, the formation above is the closest to our most successful line up last season which was probably


------------------Alario------------------
--Volland---Brandt--Havertz---Weiser--
-----------Baumgartlinger--Aranguiz----
--------Bender---Tah---Dragovic--------
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Bosz can pick between Bellarabi+Bailey, who are the "correct" player types for the role, but don't produce, or Volland + (more or less) Havertz, who have end product, but will severely hamper their team's ability to create chances/spaces in a wider role or he can roll the dice with the kids. That's why I think that Bosz is in serious trouble, because I don't see either working consistently. Last season's run in was a different story, because Brandt was doing work in the center.
 
Not too long ago Hoeneß praised himself for being a big enough person to step down himself before people felt the need to take him out. I reckon he's cutting it pretty close now.

And funnily enough this might cause Löw to actually do give MatS some game time, just to make a point against this attempt to pressure him.
 
FootyGirl88 said:
What's the beef between Neuer and Ter Stegan?
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I don't believe it's between them. Not any more than two players competing for the same position anywhere, at least. It's as simple as that, both want to play, and both play on a high level. The problems are with Löw and the DFB's lack of management of the situation. So they are still backing Neuer as Nr.1 also for the EM 2020. On the other hand, apparently Löw promised playing time to ter Stegen ahead of the last two internationals, but then didn't let him play. Understandably ter Stegen is not content with the situation and this treatment, and Neuer is also understandably not happy with the ongoing debate about the NT keeper job.
That all said, Hoeneß and the Bayern board please just shut up.
 
GhastlyHun said:
I don't believe it's between them. Not any more than two players competing for the same position anywhere, at least. It's as simple as that, both want to play, and both play on a high level. The problems are with Löw and the DFB's lack of management of the situation. So they are still backing Neuer as Nr.1 also for the EM 2020. On the other hand, apparently Löw promised playing time to ter Stegen ahead of the last two internationals, but then didn't let him play. Understandably ter Stegen is not content with the situation and this treatment, and Neuer is also understandably not happy with the ongoing debate about the NT keeper job.
That all said, Hoeneß and the Bayern board please just shut up.
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I see, thanks for explaining. Why doesn't Low just pick the keeper in the best form?
 
I love Neuer and one might argue that its the correct decision to back him. Still ter Stegen showed consistently better performances since Neuer's injury in 2017. At some point that's always going to create tension. Hoeneß is just an asshole. He probably also knows that once ter Stegen gets a leg up, its going to be the end of Neuer's time as #1.
 
do.ob said:
Bosz can pick between Bellarabi+Bailey, who are the "correct" player types for the role, but don't produce, or Volland + (more or less) Havertz, who have end product, but will severely hamper their team's ability to create chances/spaces in a wider role or he can roll the dice with the kids. That's why I think that Bosz is in serious trouble, because I don't see either working consistently. Last season's run in was a different story, because Brandt was doing work in the center.
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The point about Havertz and Volland hampering the chance creation is wrong, IMO. Bellarabi and Bailey in their current form are awful at creating chances, Havertz and Volland trump them in that aspect this season. Also it's npt Bellarabi or Havertz but Weiser or Bellarabi. And Weiser holds his position out wide and creates more chances from there than Bella. Thing is, a wing consisting of Bender and Bellarabi is just atrocious going forward.

You're on point regarding Brandt though. We are in desparate need of someone like that and I don't see Amiri growing into that. He's simply too one dimensional. Which is why I root for Paulinho who's much more naturally gifted and showed great potential in the pre-season and his short appearances last year.
 
Wolfsburg-Hoffenheim was an alright game the other night
 
Zehner said:
The point about Havertz and Volland hampering the chance creation is wrong, IMO. Bellarabi and Bailey in their current form are awful at creating chances, Havertz and Volland trump them in that aspect this season. Also it's npt Bellarabi or Havertz but Weiser or Bellarabi. And Weiser holds his position out wide and creates more chances from there than Bella. Thing is, a wing consisting of Bender and Bellarabi is just atrocious going forward.

You're on point regarding Brandt though. We are in desparate need of someone like that and I don't see Amiri growing into that. He's simply too one dimensional. Which is why I root for Paulinho who's much more naturally gifted and showed great potential in the pre-season and his short appearances last year.
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Against Berlin, where Bellarabi was benched, Leverkusen created sweet nothing. 0.42 worth of xG until the sending off. The one good attacking move they did pull off - the offside goal - was near identical to the equalizer against Moscow, which they scored with Bellarabi's involvement. The main difference was that Berlin are worse at defending than Moscow and that Volland and Alario got lucky with their long shots. That's not a sustainable formula for success. And - again - my point isn't that Bellarabi is such a great player, but that Bosz has to pick his poison between two severely dysfunctional setups and thus things could turn ugly very quickly.

p.s. when I say Havertz vs Bellarabi I'm refering to who takes the wide role, because afaik when Bellarabi is benched Havertz is moved wide and another C(A)M is added, e.g. Amiri against Berlin.
 
FootyGirl88 said:
Not sure what's happening with RB at the moment

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Saw the first half and Schalke basically scored of the two chances they had, both set pieces.

Leipzeg hit the post and then Nubel made an amazing double save. Other than that they didn't do much to be frank. Another day the result could've gone the other way.
 
Brych lives up to his rep as the worst referee in the league once again. What a cnut!
 
Another tripe defensive performance from Dortmund and another goal conceded from a set piece. You can't really blame their offense, 17 goals in 6 matches but then conceded 9 as well.

Akanji has been shoddy this season. Today had no idea where Rashica was (after Hakimi wandered out of position, again) and Dortmund paid for it. Then Hakimi losing his man on the corner and Dortmund conceding. Shambolic.

Shite day in the BL, Bayern won while Leipzeg lost and Dortmund dropped points again. Leverkusen winning is a nice spot, but they aren't going to challenge for the title.
 
hasanejaz88 said:
Shite day in the BL, Bayern won while Leipzeg lost and Dortmund dropped points again. Leverkusen winning is a nice spot, but they aren't going to challenge for the title.
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What’s shite about Leipzig losing? It’s wonderful! :drool:
 
I wouldn't have thought it possible, but Favre (thus far) hasn't addressed any of last season's problems in the slightest. One of the disappointments of the season thus far. Dortmund were aiming for the title, and rightly so, but the reality is their worst start in 5 years, despite a fairly easy fixture list.
 
Schalke are quite the surprise team of the season so far.
Dortmund currently sitting in 7th position only, but take note that it's only 3 points to the top. The complete upper half of the table is separated by only 4 (four!) points, which is nice. Of course much of this is still due to us being more or less back at our worst of the last ten years.
 
do.ob said:
Against Berlin, where Bellarabi was benched, Leverkusen created sweet nothing. 0.42 worth of xG until the sending off. The one good attacking move they did pull off - the offside goal - was near identical to the equalizer against Moscow, which they scored with Bellarabi's involvement. The main difference was that Berlin are worse at defending than Moscow and that Volland and Alario got lucky with their long shots. That's not a sustainable formula for success. And - again - my point isn't that Bellarabi is such a great player, but that Bosz has to pick his poison between two severely dysfunctional setups and thus things could turn ugly very quickly.

p.s. when I say Havertz vs Bellarabi I'm refering to who takes the wide role, because afaik when Bellarabi is benched Havertz is moved wide and another C(A)M is added, e.g. Amiri against Berlin.
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I get where you are coming from but IMO that's correlation, not causation. As I said, Bellarabi and Bailey were atrocious and I don't believe that we would've created more with them in the team. The game yesterday only supports that impression.

And no, Havertz never plays right. Last season, we changed the formation after Bellarabi's injury and played in a 3-6-1 with two defensive midfielders (Aranguiz and Baumgartlinger) and two 8/10 hybrids (Brandt and Havertz). The media just assumed that Havertz moved to the right when in reality we played with three centrebacks (Wendell ---- Bender ---- Tah) and only two wingers (Weiser on the right and Bailey/Volland on the left). Originally, Bailey inhabited the left side but after he injured himself, too, Alario came into the team and Volland moved to the left and what followed was our strongest phase of the last season. We looked great attacking wise immediately after Bosz took over but the defense was occasionally all over the place (see Jedvaj vs Dortmund). After Bosz changed the system to the 3-6-1, we were rock solid and still great going forward.

We played similarly yesterday, by the way:


------------------------ Alario ----------------------------
-Volland--------Amiri----------Havertz----------Weiser-
----------Baumgartlinger-----Aranguiz------------------
----Sinkgraaven------Bender------Dragovic-------------
-----------------------Hradecky--------------------------


Basically, the only difference to our best formation last season is Amiri instead of Brandt, Sinkgraaven instead of Wendell and Dragovic instead of Tah.
 
Zehner said:
I get where you are coming from but IMO that's correlation, not causation. As I said, Bellarabi and Bailey were atrocious and I don't believe that we would've created more with them in the team. The game yesterday only supports that impression.

And no, Havertz never plays right. Last season, we changed the formation after Bellarabi's injury and played in a 3-6-1 with two defensive midfielders (Aranguiz and Baumgartlinger) and two 8/10 hybrids (Brandt and Havertz). The media just assumed that Havertz moved to the right when in reality we played with three centrebacks (Wendell ---- Bender ---- Tah) and only two wingers (Weiser on the right and Bailey/Volland on the left). Originally, Bailey inhabited the left side but after he injured himself, too, Alario came into the team and Volland moved to the left and what followed was our strongest phase of the last season. We looked great attacking wise immediately after Bosz took over but the defense was occasionally all over the place (see Jedvaj vs Dortmund). After Bosz changed the system to the 3-6-1, we were rock solid and still great going forward.

We played similarly yesterday, by the way:


------------------------ Alario ----------------------------
-Volland--------Amiri----------Havertz----------Weiser-
----------Baumgartlinger-----Aranguiz------------------
----Sinkgraaven------Bender------Dragovic-------------
-----------------------Hradecky--------------------------


Basically, the only difference to our best formation last season is Amiri instead of Brandt, Sinkgraaven instead of Wendell and Dragovic instead of Tah.
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Speaking of yesterday:
v4uThFW.png


wWhcwB3.png
 
And Amiri mirrors that heatmap on the other flank. Honestly, that doesn't say much. The heatmap you posted is very deceiving. In possession, our midfielders often move out wide for ball circulation purposes and gather a lot of contacts in that area but that doesn't reflect their actual play.

I think we agree that last season, Brandt was deployded centrally. This is his heatmap in the 6-1 against Frankfurt last season:

7zFQa45.png


And here's one from the match against Berlin (same formation):

qLeMuot.png


If you check the heatmaps from the games in this formation, you'll see that Haverz almost always played more central than Brandt. Sometimes both drift out wide a lot (probably because the center is crowded or the opponent presses earlier) but their heatmaps are usually very similar. Here's exemplarily Havertz against Frankfurt (same match as the first heatmap):

SHuSRJY.png


So if Brandt played centrally, Havertz did/does, too ;)
 
do.ob said:
I wouldn't have thought it possible, but Favre (thus far) hasn't addressed any of last season's problems in the slightest. One of the disappointments of the season thus far. Dortmund were aiming for the title, and rightly so, but the reality is their worst start in 5 years, despite a fairly easy fixture list.
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Totaly agree. There are so many points of criticism at the moment. I really don't know whats the problem. There are many questionsmarks above Favre (especially his tactics and his squad managment) and the BVB right now.
 
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