I think putting Ancelotti into the same category as Klinsmann and Kovac is too much hindsight. At the time of the appointment he was probably the second most desirable coach in the world after Pep, he was/is known for good man management of star ensembles and CL success, something which has been Bayern's ambition for a while. You don't always have to look for an exact copy of the previous coach either, sometimes it's a good idea to change tracks a bit.
Bundesliga 19/20
- Thread starter do.ob
- Start date
I dont put Ancelotti and Klinsmann in the same category in terms of quality and his appointment made some sense. Nonetheless he failed as bad as one could fail. I disagree with the argument, that puts all the blame on Hoeneß and paints Rummenigge in a very different light. I dont think that they are the same, but that cuts two ways. I really dislike Hoeneß on a personal level and he made some huge mistake on a professional level. Yet he was also the driving force behind some of the most influential transfers/decision, that created the basis for the success of the last ~10 years.
Ummmm..... he had Ajax in the CL Semis last season.
He's one of the best coaches ever. He was still a bad appointment, even at the time.
The bold are false.
Ancelotti was a Rummenigge appointment
Ulli was in jail when Pep left, He was released February 2016 and by then Pep already signed with City
I notice many of our fans like to spin any negative as Ullis fault. Ulli must be blamed even when he obviously had nothing to do with the decisions
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Allegri till the end of the season?
He wont take an interim job. Flick till the end of the season and get ten Haag or better still Kloppo
We've all seen Oz, these kingpins can order a hit on the outside even if they are locked up.
I am aware that he is doing well. I don't think that should be the main criteria on its own. I just dont know what kind of football he wants to play or what kind of personality he has. I have no idea if he is a good fit or not.
I think the bayern management at the time thought about "building up" a less known manager by employing him as manager for the amateur/b-team with the intention to promote him, if it works out well. Scholl, ten Hag and Heiko Vogel were imo the three candidates where this logic applied. My understanding is, that the management wasn't really convinced by any of those three. Managers develop and the circumstances are/were quite different, but I think its worth taking this into account.
I'd like to see Wenger there.
I don't see Klopp coming to you guys. He seems like a manager who wants much more control over the team and looks like he prefers coaching the not so favored / underdog type of club.
I don't think he was, not per se, and if our CL tie went your way i think things would have gone very differently, he'd likely still be your manager and have great feeling with the players
The main problem there was he followed Guardiola...
I actually think following Pep is not a bad thing for Carlo, it should, at least in theory, actually make his work easier. Carlo needs leaders in his team and a creative midfield with good playmaking. That allows him to give his players some space and independence. But when he took over, Lahm and Alonso both retired and our only playmaker in midfield was now Thiago, who is somewhat prone to injuries. The lack of leadership after Lahm and Alonso, combined with the lack of necessary playmakers were his downfall.
You're talking about tactics and performances, i really don't think those were the issue(well, also yes, but not the main issue)
The issue was the relationship with the players. Guardiola is a teacher, and your players took to him and his methods like an oasis in the desert
Ancelotti is the exact opposite of that. Only huge success on the pitch would have made the players forget Guardiola
sort of.. true. i stand corrected on this one.
When he *left*. When you read Perarnau's books, that wasn't a sudden decision. Hoeneß never gave Pep the control Pep demanded (and has now at City). As Honigstein wrote, Pep was in doubt whether they really wanted him for his idea of football, or just as the coach equivalent of a trophy wife.
There were very few decisions at Bayern the last 30odd years Hoeneß has "nothing to do with". He loves to micromanage.
https://www.mbs.news/2019/11/no-away-games-of-the-dfb-elf-in-women-discriminating-countries.html
The newly elected DFB president Fritz Keller worte a short comment in die Zeit [paper] where he outlined that he wants to take a more political stance than some of his predecessors.
Boycotting nations who don't respect women's rights is a very nice headline, but his clarification on what constitutes a lack of respect kind of takes the edge away from this measure:
"based on which we no longer allow national teams to play matches in countries where women are not granted equal access to football stadiums or other sports facilities without discrimination"
Call me cynical but at the end this will affect a couple of African/Asian countries that our teams wouldn't have visited in a million years anyway. Meanwhile women will (probably) be allowed at stadiums in Qatar, so the policy won't apply there.
The newly elected DFB president Fritz Keller worte a short comment in die Zeit [paper] where he outlined that he wants to take a more political stance than some of his predecessors.
Boycotting nations who don't respect women's rights is a very nice headline, but his clarification on what constitutes a lack of respect kind of takes the edge away from this measure:
"based on which we no longer allow national teams to play matches in countries where women are not granted equal access to football stadiums or other sports facilities without discrimination"
Call me cynical but at the end this will affect a couple of African/Asian countries that our teams wouldn't have visited in a million years anyway. Meanwhile women will (probably) be allowed at stadiums in Qatar, so the policy won't apply there.
Der Klassiker!!
Today's the game - der Klassiker.
What do you think and what do you predict? Easy home win for Bayern as it's been for three or four seasons or you wouldn't bet any money on anyone? Dortmund have been playing much better lately, but it's Allianz Arena and they can't play there.
You should definitely watch this game, 17:30 UK time.
To be fair, lately I've been more into Bundesliga than ever before. Love the atmosphere, love the clubs, love how they're managed. Bayern has always been an example (although lately they can't hire a good coach). I haven't even watched a league game of United this season and I've seen some of such clubs as Union Berlin and Monchengladbach.
What do you think and what do you predict? Easy home win for Bayern as it's been for three or four seasons or you wouldn't bet any money on anyone? Dortmund have been playing much better lately, but it's Allianz Arena and they can't play there.
You should definitely watch this game, 17:30 UK time.
To be fair, lately I've been more into Bundesliga than ever before. Love the atmosphere, love the clubs, love how they're managed. Bayern has always been an example (although lately they can't hire a good coach). I haven't even watched a league game of United this season and I've seen some of such clubs as Union Berlin and Monchengladbach.
I'm relatively optimistic for Dortmund.
I think the tactical matchup is in their favour: Bayern's possession game lacks both creativity/penetration and sufficient cover, the latter might be exacerbated by having to play a Pavard, Martinez, Alaba, Davies back four. In theory Dortmund should be able to withstand Bayern's attacks and then find plenty of opportunities on the counter/in transitions.
I also think momentum is on Dortmund's side: Favre still has some questions to answer, but these past couple of days, beating Gladbach, Wolfsburg and Inter, coming back from a 0-1 and 0-2 in the process, have brought back a lot of confidence. This is also visible in several ambitious statements players and officials have made in the run up to this match.
Before the season Dortmund have expressed ambitions to be a regular challenger for the title, be a step above the likes of Leipzig, and I think today those words are being put to the test.
On the other hand their home and away results are a bit Jekyll and Hyde, and of course Bayern are still Bayern, they have more experienced high quality players who will be fired up, trying to prove a point (Dortmund at times struggle with a physical game). So even with all the things I said before we could also see Akanji commit his (by now) customary mistake in minute five, Lewandowski pouncing on it and then it's feck momentum, feck the tactics and Bayern command the game.
I think the tactical matchup is in their favour: Bayern's possession game lacks both creativity/penetration and sufficient cover, the latter might be exacerbated by having to play a Pavard, Martinez, Alaba, Davies back four. In theory Dortmund should be able to withstand Bayern's attacks and then find plenty of opportunities on the counter/in transitions.
I also think momentum is on Dortmund's side: Favre still has some questions to answer, but these past couple of days, beating Gladbach, Wolfsburg and Inter, coming back from a 0-1 and 0-2 in the process, have brought back a lot of confidence. This is also visible in several ambitious statements players and officials have made in the run up to this match.
Before the season Dortmund have expressed ambitions to be a regular challenger for the title, be a step above the likes of Leipzig, and I think today those words are being put to the test.
On the other hand their home and away results are a bit Jekyll and Hyde, and of course Bayern are still Bayern, they have more experienced high quality players who will be fired up, trying to prove a point (Dortmund at times struggle with a physical game). So even with all the things I said before we could also see Akanji commit his (by now) customary mistake in minute five, Lewandowski pouncing on it and then it's feck momentum, feck the tactics and Bayern command the game.
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Thats exactly my fear. Why Akanji plays instead of Zagadou is a question where only Favre knows the answer, its a pity and it is getting on my nerves. Favre still raises a lot of questionmarks, but this is the biggest.
Today the match can go either way. Will be interesting to watch.
Hoeneß phoned into Doppelpass this morning to complain about the discussion they were having about Bayern. 
Please don't leave Uli!
Please don't leave Uli!
This was crazy. Frankfurt player knocked over Freiburg coach on the sideline towards the end of the game. Wow. He has to be suspended for a long time.
I think yesterday was Favre's huge chance to prove his doubters wrong, but the game turned out to be a sad caricature of everything that people criticise him for. I think he will have a hard time convincing people that he can win the league. Didn't like him basically laying the blame at his players after the match either. I think the only question is whether he will be replaced during the winter break or at the end of the season.
If he manages to get out of the UCL group, which is still possible they won't if Inter spring a surprise against Barca, then he might get time till the end of the season because don't think they're in risk of losing a top 4 spot.
How has Weston Mckennie and Tyler Adams been performing this season? Any Schalke, Leipzig, or avid Bundesliga followers in general who can give some insight?
Ulli's last day at Bayern. I will miss him, He will fiercely defend any Bayern player. He rehabilitated Gerd Muller, Paid Deisler for the length of his contract, Paid Badstuber. He will defend anyone in Bayern and anyone outside is an enemy
Reactions
Karl-Heinz Rummenigge (FC Bayern chairman): "If you have a problem, if you're in a real jam, he's there for you. You can't learn this job as FC Bayern manager and director at university. Uli can be proud of his work."
Franz Beckenbauer (FC Bayern honorary president): "I remember well when Uli, Karl-Heinz Rummenigge and I were in the stands during my time as president. When I didn't like a match I'd start to sell players in my thoughts. But he always calmed me after the final whistle. Hoeneß brought everyone back on track. FC Bayern is his family. The players are his children. I wish Uli all the best and good health – but he's done well in the last 50 years, he'll also weather the next 50."
Jupp Heynckes (former FC Bayern coach): "Friendship mustn't be a one-way street. Above all, it consists of trust. I trust Uli Hoeneß and vice versa. I like him as a person. When he acts for FC Bayern he hardly knows any friends, you have to know that. He's FC Bayern's DNA. Never one step back, always two ahead. And evermore successful. He's the most successful manager in the world."
Sepp Maier (FC Bayern goalkeeping legend): "The blond angel. Now we have a blond angel, Uli was good-looking. But nobody could stop him once he picked up speed. Like a rugby player, like a steamroller. He was always afraid of his curls getting flattened when heading the ball. If I'm alive at 100 or 110 years of age I'll have Uli to thank. Without him, I wouldn't have been around aged 35."
Ottmar Hitzfeld
What he's achieved is a fairy tale.
Paul Breitner (FC Bayern legend): "The only thing I'd like to say on Uli Hoeneß' farewell, regardless of disagreements: He's the only football manager I'd compare to Santiago Bernabéu. What Uli Hoeneß has achieved for FC Bayern is great - similar to what Santiago Bernabéu achieved for Real Madrid."
Philipp Lahm (FC Bayern legend): "Uli Hoeneß has always relied on gut feeling. Now he has the feeling it's time to let go. Uli Hoeneß led FC Bayern like a family business. A great era draws to a close, but another one will begin."
Ottmar Hitzfeld (former FC Bayern coach): "What he's achieved is a fairy tale. It's impossible to overstate. Uli was always omnipresent as manager and president. He led the way in German football. He was always a pioneer for a great many club leaders. I think we can't really assess what German football will miss without him."
Louis van Gaal (former FC Bayern coach): "We had our disputes, but for your farewell, I'd like to tell you that you're one of the most important figures in the history of FC Bayern and that I hold you in high regard for your lifetime achievement. You've turned FC Bayern into the great and well-structured club it is today. Hats off!"
Dieter Hoeneß (brother): "We all know he can't let go completely after 40 years of work for the club. His legacy is incredible. Somebody shaping a club so successfully for so long will never happen again."
Günter Netzer (longstanding companion): "Uli wasn't just a runner, with people saying: let him run, it'll get him nowhere. He was a very good footballer. I was always very grateful when he was on the pitch with me. Back then we had only a few choirboys, and Uli wasn't one of them. Passion is the be-all and end-all for him. Otherwise, 49 years of this dedication would be inexplicable. Passion is his core trait. That he kept it up for so long impresses me. It's a miracle if you ask me. A truly great man is leaving German football. His legacy is sublime. Pretty unique if you ask me."
Joachim Löw (Germany coach): "He's shaped German football like hardly anyone else. His importance was gigantic. What he's moved at FC Bayern and the successes he has achieved: it's unique."
Hans-Joachim Watzke (Borussia Dortmund): "We often didn't make life easy for one another. But I'm convinced that despite all the disagreements we still had respect for each other. To shape 40 years as FC Bayern manager as you did is absolutely exceptional!"
Dietmar Hopp (TSG 1899 Hoffenheim): "Apart from his passion and benevolence, one of the positive traits for which I like Uli Hoeneß is that he's very modest. And that's a crucial requirement for being able to let go of what he's helped shape, even created."
Christian Seifert (Speaker of the DFL e.V. Executive Committee): "Uli Hoeneß has been a firm, formative part of the Bundesliga for five decades. He celebrated top-level successes as a player, manager and club president and was always in the limelight. By standing down as FC Bayern president, Uli Hoeneß gains time for his family and private matters. I'm extremely glad for him, after all the years in the limelight."
Gianni Infantino (FIFA president): "Uli Hoeneß is an outstanding personality in German football. As a player, he thrilled a whole generation of fans with his passion and his goals. He was a pioneer in many respects, he's enhanced FC Bayern and established it as a globally renowned club."
Christoph Daum (former Bundesliga coach): "You've never been compliant, but always unique. You weren't born a winner or an attacker, but your sense of justice, your benevolence and willpower have made you the leader in football, on and off the pitch."
Reactions
Karl-Heinz Rummenigge (FC Bayern chairman): "If you have a problem, if you're in a real jam, he's there for you. You can't learn this job as FC Bayern manager and director at university. Uli can be proud of his work."
Franz Beckenbauer (FC Bayern honorary president): "I remember well when Uli, Karl-Heinz Rummenigge and I were in the stands during my time as president. When I didn't like a match I'd start to sell players in my thoughts. But he always calmed me after the final whistle. Hoeneß brought everyone back on track. FC Bayern is his family. The players are his children. I wish Uli all the best and good health – but he's done well in the last 50 years, he'll also weather the next 50."
Jupp Heynckes (former FC Bayern coach): "Friendship mustn't be a one-way street. Above all, it consists of trust. I trust Uli Hoeneß and vice versa. I like him as a person. When he acts for FC Bayern he hardly knows any friends, you have to know that. He's FC Bayern's DNA. Never one step back, always two ahead. And evermore successful. He's the most successful manager in the world."
Sepp Maier (FC Bayern goalkeeping legend): "The blond angel. Now we have a blond angel, Uli was good-looking. But nobody could stop him once he picked up speed. Like a rugby player, like a steamroller. He was always afraid of his curls getting flattened when heading the ball. If I'm alive at 100 or 110 years of age I'll have Uli to thank. Without him, I wouldn't have been around aged 35."
Ottmar Hitzfeld
What he's achieved is a fairy tale.
Paul Breitner (FC Bayern legend): "The only thing I'd like to say on Uli Hoeneß' farewell, regardless of disagreements: He's the only football manager I'd compare to Santiago Bernabéu. What Uli Hoeneß has achieved for FC Bayern is great - similar to what Santiago Bernabéu achieved for Real Madrid."
Philipp Lahm (FC Bayern legend): "Uli Hoeneß has always relied on gut feeling. Now he has the feeling it's time to let go. Uli Hoeneß led FC Bayern like a family business. A great era draws to a close, but another one will begin."
Ottmar Hitzfeld (former FC Bayern coach): "What he's achieved is a fairy tale. It's impossible to overstate. Uli was always omnipresent as manager and president. He led the way in German football. He was always a pioneer for a great many club leaders. I think we can't really assess what German football will miss without him."
Louis van Gaal (former FC Bayern coach): "We had our disputes, but for your farewell, I'd like to tell you that you're one of the most important figures in the history of FC Bayern and that I hold you in high regard for your lifetime achievement. You've turned FC Bayern into the great and well-structured club it is today. Hats off!"
Dieter Hoeneß (brother): "We all know he can't let go completely after 40 years of work for the club. His legacy is incredible. Somebody shaping a club so successfully for so long will never happen again."
Günter Netzer (longstanding companion): "Uli wasn't just a runner, with people saying: let him run, it'll get him nowhere. He was a very good footballer. I was always very grateful when he was on the pitch with me. Back then we had only a few choirboys, and Uli wasn't one of them. Passion is the be-all and end-all for him. Otherwise, 49 years of this dedication would be inexplicable. Passion is his core trait. That he kept it up for so long impresses me. It's a miracle if you ask me. A truly great man is leaving German football. His legacy is sublime. Pretty unique if you ask me."
Joachim Löw (Germany coach): "He's shaped German football like hardly anyone else. His importance was gigantic. What he's moved at FC Bayern and the successes he has achieved: it's unique."
Hans-Joachim Watzke (Borussia Dortmund): "We often didn't make life easy for one another. But I'm convinced that despite all the disagreements we still had respect for each other. To shape 40 years as FC Bayern manager as you did is absolutely exceptional!"
Dietmar Hopp (TSG 1899 Hoffenheim): "Apart from his passion and benevolence, one of the positive traits for which I like Uli Hoeneß is that he's very modest. And that's a crucial requirement for being able to let go of what he's helped shape, even created."
Christian Seifert (Speaker of the DFL e.V. Executive Committee): "Uli Hoeneß has been a firm, formative part of the Bundesliga for five decades. He celebrated top-level successes as a player, manager and club president and was always in the limelight. By standing down as FC Bayern president, Uli Hoeneß gains time for his family and private matters. I'm extremely glad for him, after all the years in the limelight."
Gianni Infantino (FIFA president): "Uli Hoeneß is an outstanding personality in German football. As a player, he thrilled a whole generation of fans with his passion and his goals. He was a pioneer in many respects, he's enhanced FC Bayern and established it as a globally renowned club."
Christoph Daum (former Bundesliga coach): "You've never been compliant, but always unique. You weren't born a winner or an attacker, but your sense of justice, your benevolence and willpower have made you the leader in football, on and off the pitch."
With english subtitles!
Kalle: "Since Bayern Munich and Qatar are Partners, there has been a demonstrable development in matters of humanitarian and labour rights. Dialogue improves things. We have accomplished many changes through football. It's better than any criticism."
First he fought for basic rights in Germany, now in Qatar. What a hero.
And now let's continue the Hoeneß festivities with some of our favourite quotes, I'll start:
"It's stupid, but I pay all my taxes."
"By now I don't care whether I pay 20, 50 or 100 percent taxes. I'm concerned about the common people".
"Obviously I want success, but not at all cost. When it comes to money you also have to be satisfied sometimes."
"This is the filth, that will suffocate our society at some point" [apparently he doesn't like the popular "punk" band "die Toten Hosen"].
Feel free to continue.
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Bayern held another press conference and Ramblin' Uli had this to say:
I was on the verge of leaving the stage. We won't let a couple of brawlers ruin the whole thing - under the guise of democracy and freedom of expression. There are questions and accusations that are so outrageous. If there are 20, 30, 50 who are so dissatisfied with FC Bayern because they can't get any further, then stay home and return your membership. Then we have peace again. Nobody is forced to be a member of Bayern Munich. (on speaking contributions at yesterday's annual general assembly)
There's a whole group that's getting all worked up. The higher the storm, the more shit comes out. I can't take it seriously anymore. To be honest, where I live on the mountain ... that doesn't get to me at all. When I wake up in the morning, I'm in a good mood. I am not vegan either, so I'm in a good mood again. I am glad that I do not wake up in Aleppo. (on things being written on social media)
I was on the verge of leaving the stage. We won't let a couple of brawlers ruin the whole thing - under the guise of democracy and freedom of expression. There are questions and accusations that are so outrageous. If there are 20, 30, 50 who are so dissatisfied with FC Bayern because they can't get any further, then stay home and return your membership. Then we have peace again. Nobody is forced to be a member of Bayern Munich. (on speaking contributions at yesterday's annual general assembly)
There's a whole group that's getting all worked up. The higher the storm, the more shit comes out. I can't take it seriously anymore. To be honest, where I live on the mountain ... that doesn't get to me at all. When I wake up in the morning, I'm in a good mood. I am not vegan either, so I'm in a good mood again. I am glad that I do not wake up in Aleppo. (on things being written on social media)
Bayern held another press conference and Ramblin' Uli had this to say:
I was on the verge of leaving the stage. We won't let a couple of brawlers ruin the whole thing - under the guise of democracy and freedom of expression. There are questions and accusations that are so outrageous. If there are 20, 30, 50 who are so dissatisfied with FC Bayern because they can't get any further, then stay home and return your membership. Then we have peace again. Nobody is forced to be a member of Bayern Munich. (on speaking contributions at yesterday's annual general assembly)
There's a whole group that's getting all worked up. The higher the storm, the more shit comes out. I can't take it seriously anymore. To be honest, where I live on the mountain ... that doesn't get to me at all. When I wake up in the morning, I'm in a good mood. I am not vegan either, so I'm in a good mood again. I am glad that I do not wake up in Aleppo. (on things being written on social media)
Let's all celebrate this great person. My only wish is that he enters politics.
He also said that now he's no longer president, he'll be able to voice his opinion more clearly. You couldn't make it up.
Bayern held another press conference and Ramblin' Uli had this to say:
I was on the verge of leaving the stage. We won't let a couple of brawlers ruin the whole thing - under the guise of democracy and freedom of expression. There are questions and accusations that are so outrageous. If there are 20, 30, 50 who are so dissatisfied with FC Bayern because they can't get any further, then stay home and return your membership. Then we have peace again. Nobody is forced to be a member of Bayern Munich. (on speaking contributions at yesterday's annual general assembly)
There's a whole group that's getting all worked up. The higher the storm, the more shit comes out. I can't take it seriously anymore. To be honest, where I live on the mountain ... that doesn't get to me at all. When I wake up in the morning, I'm in a good mood. I am not vegan either, so I'm in a good mood again. I am glad that I do not wake up in Aleppo. (on things being written on social media)
Make this man Merkel's successor
May serve better to put this in a US thread, might get someone to actually provide a response.
Surely McKennie has been playing well, not sure about Adams and others.
I can only comment on Josh Sargent, but he has been doing well so far. Has shown glimpses of his talent towards the end of last season already when subbed in. Our main strikers were or still are injured so he started the majority of our games this season and definitely didn't look out of place. Even scored a worldie not too long ago. With his talent and work ethic, I'm sure he will steadily improve over time.
Dortmund getting schooled at home by some team I've never heard of.
Dortmund are utter trash
0-3
Weigl so slow
so slowBoltmann 
Great to see him doing well.
Great to see him doing well.
This is awesome. Unlike new forum.