Bruno Fernandes Out?

Nefario said:
You seem to be confusing a second striker with an attacking midfielder. Neither of Cantona, Rooney or Sheringham were attacking midfielders. They were centre forwards or second strikers, but were versatile enough to play various attacking roles like most football players have to do on occasion. So yeah, all of our success has been without an attacking midfielder. Why are you talking about two forwards in Cole and Yorke? If anything, you're just proving my point by showing that our goals and assists came from our forwards, and not an attacking midfielder.

You're missing the point here. This is not about what formation we've had most success with, or how good certain players were. We have never relied on an attacking midfielder to be the catalyst in our attack during our successful periods. It has always been the forwards. Cantona, Rooney, Sheringham, Solskjaer, Yorke, Cole, Ronaldo, Tevez, Berbatov, van Nistelrooy, van Persie. They're forwards or attackers, not attacking midfielders. Now and historically, most successful teams have unsurprisingly relied on their forward line for their offensive output.
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No, you’re missing the point.

In every tradition and every period of success, we had played with two forwards and two wingers. 4 players have been responsible for goals and creativity.

You’re suddenly now arguing the point that we don’t need Bruno or an AM because traditionally we’ve never relied on goals/creativity from midfield; but that’s because we’ve always had 2 wingers and a second striker, you’re now saying you wouldn’t have the second striker and you would even take away our attacking midfielder and thus leave us for the first time in our history we’re relying on just 3 players for goals / creativity.
You’re even more bizarrely using history/traditions to prove this can work, when we’ve never ever fecking done it in our history. We’re in our most conservative period now, turning that traditional Rooney/Cantona second striker into an AM, feck knows how shite we’d be if we went even more conservative and went with a 3 man midfield.

If we’re gonna be changing our style and moving in a Barca esque system with:

DM
No. 8. No. 8

Wing Forward. Wing Forward
Striker​

Then make no mistake, this will be the first time in our history we’ve done it successfully, so we certainly can’t look into the past.
For it to work, we’ll need 2 incredible number 8’s, 2 exceptional and productive wingers, and a prolific striker. It’ll be a complete new squad and a system we’ve never been successful with.
 
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Regulus Arcturus Black said:
No, you’re missing the point.

In every tradition and every period of success, we had played with two forwards and two wingers. 4 players have been responsible for goals and creativity.

You’re suddenly now arguing the point that we don’t need Bruno or an AM because traditionally we’ve never relied on goals/creativity from midfield; but that’s because we’ve always had 2 wingers and a second striker, you’re now saying you wouldn’t have the second striker and you would even take away our attacking midfielder and leave for the first time in our history we’re relying on 3 players for goals / creativity.
You’re even more bizarrely using history/traditions to prove this can work.
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4 players having been responsible for our goals and creativity is an entirely different argument, and it's not what we were discussing. Two forwards and two wingers are attackers. My only point was that we've never relied on an attacking midfielder to be the creative talisman for our creativity and offensive threat. You talk about Rooney, Sheringham and Cantona, but they are forwards, not midfielders. We played with an extra attacker. What is there to discuss?

I'm not saying we need to play with 3 players responsible for our attack to have a functional attack, but similarly, we don't need 4 to make it work just because that's what we've done before. And when did I use history and traditions to prove what I said can work? I'm repeating myself here, but what I said was that we haven't relied on an attacking midfielder, but forwards. Whether it's 3, 4 or 5 players responsible for our creativity is completely irrelevant. They weren't attacking midfielders.

Edit: I see your edited your post. The formation you posted was a personal preference for me. It is not required, and I never said it will work. It is just what I personally would do. I also think you're making it a bit more complicated than it is. Get Nico Williams or Kvaratskhelia in on the left (assuming we get in the other players we're linked with) and a great number 8, and we're set. It doesn't have to be Xavi or Iniesta and Messi on the right for a simple 4-3-3 to work.
 
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So. Click bait media suggesting PIF want him in Saudi to join Ronaldo.

I’ll bite. What would be an acceptable transfer fee for him?
 
Pughnichi said:
So. Click bait media suggesting PIF want him in Saudi to join Ronaldo.

I’ll bite. What would be an acceptable transfer fee for him?
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I think it's unlikely, given the amount it would take to be replaced. However, theoretically given his age and profile if a massive offer came in it would be hard to turn down (especially if he wanted the move).

I would say £75million...?
 
MrBrightside1989 said:
I think it's unlikely, given the amount it would take to be replaced. However, theoretically given his age and profile if a massive offer came in it would be hard to turn down (especially if he wanted the move).

I would say £75million...?
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Agree that it’s unlikely for all the reasons you point out.

id be after a league record though fee wise if it were to happen somewhere closer to 100 if we could squeeze it
 
Nefario said:
4 players having been responsible for our goals and creativity is an entirely different argument, and it's not what we were discussing. Two forwards and two wingers are attackers. My only point was that we've never relied on an attacking midfielder to be the creative talisman for our creativity and offensive threat. You talk about Rooney, Sheringham and Cantona, but they are forwards, not midfielders. We played with an extra attacker. What is there to discuss?

I'm not saying we need to play with 3 players responsible for our attack to have a functional attack, but similarly, we don't need 4 to make it work just because that's what we've done before. And when did I use history and traditions to prove what I said can work?
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You’ve posted multiple times that we don’t need an attacking midfielder because we’ve never before relied on creativity from midfield when we’ve been successful in the past.

But we haven’t because we’ve always had 4 forwards, someone has always been doing Bruno’s job even further up the pitch, so your point is moot.

I don’t mind the idea of a DM & two number 8’s, but if anyone considers this squad even remotely capable of that I’d say they are stark raving bonkers. One of those 8’s would need to have Bruno levels of creativity and we’d need to upgrade all 3 of our front line.

I think currently we’re best getting the back 4 in order, getting in a new quality DM so to make us much better in possession & able to squeeze the space.
They are the priorities for me as this will bring the midfield (including Bruno) much closer to our attack without leaving acres of space behind them like last season.
If we do that successfully I think Bruno, Højlund and our selection of wingers can do enough to make us a much more competitive side next season.
 
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Highly doubt Fernandes will want to go to Saudi. He’s a pretty ambitious player. He likes competing against the best teams in the best leagues.
 
I actually love Bruno, top top player who always gives everything. He scores goals and creates goals, works his socks off as well. It would absolutely terrible if we sold him.

The only way it's even remotely acceptable is for massive massive money, north of 100m kind of money. Even then I don't think we can replace what he brings to the club.
 
Judas said:
When will these types of posts stop? Different structure in place. Why are people not willing to give the benefit of the doubt and see how things pan out with so many new people on board.
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The point which you've missed isn't that people don't hope things will improve. We all do.
It's that it'd be daft shipping our best player off on this hope we bring in game changers.

Ship the weaker players off first. That seems the obvious approach.
 
Sandikan said:
The point which you've missed isn't that people don't hope things will improve. We all do.
It's that it'd be daft shipping our best player off on this hope we bring in game changers.

Ship the weaker players off first. That seems the obvious approach.
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It's easier said than done shipping off the weakest players though. Do you think Smalling was our worst defender at the time he left, or purely one of the few that actually teams wanted? You can't create a market for a player out of nowhere.

This isn't me saying we should sell Bruno anyway, I don't think we should, as I've said countless times, the offer would have to be insane, legitimately impossible to turn down levels. He would be very difficult to replace right now.
 
Sandikan said:
It's a total media fabrication.
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No it looks like his agent is shopping him about.

He wants a new deal. We don’t look like we want to give him one as he has 2+1 years left and is pretty much 30.

Something has to give. I think he might go.
 
Berbaclass said:
No it looks like his agent is shopping him about.

He wants a new deal. We don’t look like we want to give him one as he has 2+1 years left and is pretty much 30.

Something has to give. I think he might go.
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I would do a young SAF ie by telling him to back his talk with an actual 100m bid
 
Any idea of what this rumoured bid is or is everyone just coming to the conclusion that it'll be over 80 million ?
 
Regulus Arcturus Black said:
You’ve posted multiple times that we don’t need an attacking midfielder because we’ve never before relied on creativity from midfield when we’ve been successful in the past.

But we haven’t because we’ve always had 4 forwards, someone has always been doing Bruno’s job even further up the pitch, so your point is moot.

I don’t mind the idea of a DM & two number 8’s, but if anyone considers this squad even remotely capable of that I’d say they are stark raving bonkers. One of those 8’s would need to have Bruno levels of creativity and we’d need to upgrade all 3 of our front line.

I think currently we’re best getting the back 4 in order, getting in a new quality DM so to make us much better in possession & able to squeeze the space.
They are the priorities for me as this will bring the midfield (including Bruno) much closer to our attack without leaving acres of space behind them like last season.
If we do that successfully I think Bruno, Højlund and our selection of wingers can do enough to make us a much more competitive side next season.
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They haven't been doing Bruno's job further up the pitch, because they had different roles with different responsibilities, and with a different set of skills. That would be like saying Trent-Alexander Arnold and Andy Robertson for Liverpool are doing Bruno's role because they are two out of the five players that are responsible for the attacking threat. They are not. They are fullbacks that provide creativity, but they are not the same role, and thus shouldn't be considered so. Having creative players all over the pitch is ideal, but it doesn't convert them into a specific role on the pitch (in this case, attacking midfielder).

Let's say we get in De Ligt, Ugarte, Zirkzee, and Kvaratskhelia and a decent CM next window, why would that not work for you? Remember, INEOS are here long term. Our team aren't going to be fixed in one season, and we're very likely not going to compete for several years. Why would the #8 we sign need to have Bruno levels of creativity? Who is that midfielder for Real Madrid, Barcelona, Liverpool or PSG to name a few top clubs? No midfielder in the world creates as many chances as Bruno except De Bruyne, so that's not going to happen. Even teams that do play 4-2-3-1 like us as in Bayern München and Bayer Leverkusen play with a 10 that don't even create half of Bruno's chances in the league, yet they are better teams.
Why would we need to upgrade all 3 of our front line for a 4-3-3 to work? We are fairly close to playing it now. It's just a formation, mate. No need to make it sound like we need some magic players, like creating chances in football is reserved only for the highest of footballing deities.

I agree with you on your last paragraph. Replacing Bruno is not a priority, and isn't what this is about. It's just about realising that a team does not need an attacking midfielder (a 10) to be responsible for creating chances. Most top teams don't even have a player like him, and are doing great. Yes, they have better attackers than us, but that's the whole point. Getting better attackers, and not persisting with the ones we have. I think Garnacho has the potential to be great, particularly on the right, and so does Højlund, but upgrading the left wing is absolutely crucial. It would make a massive difference for us having another winger that can both score and provide. Bruno isn't going to be here for many years from now, so what do we do when he is not here? What do you think will happen if we can't find a midfielder that is as creative as Bruno?
 
Nefario said:
They haven't been doing Bruno's job further up the pitch, because they had different roles with different responsibilities, and with a different set of skills. That would be like saying Trent-Alexander Arnold and Andy Robertson for Liverpool are doing Bruno's role because they are two out of the five players that are responsible for the attacking threat. They are not. They are fullbacks that provide creativity, but they are not the same role, and thus shouldn't be considered so. Having creative players all over the pitch is ideal, but it doesn't convert them into a specific role on the pitch (in this case, attacking midfielder).

Let's say we get in De Ligt, Ugarte, Zirkzee, and Kvaratskhelia and a decent CM next window, why would that not work for you? Remember, INEOS are here long term. Our team aren't going to be fixed in one season, and we're very likely not going to compete for several years. Why would the #8 we sign need to have Bruno levels of creativity? Who is that midfielder for Real Madrid, Bayern, City.
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erm… probably it’s the Ballon D’Or favourite, Jude Bellingham?

and for City it’s KDB, and a 50 goal /season striker.

Liverpool have a 30 goal /season winger and have come nowhere near the league since losing Mane; because relying on one wing and an inconsistent striker won’t cut it. We have no wingers that will consistently hit Salah’s numbers, and a rookie striker.

Bayern have Müller in Bruno’s position and a 50 goal /season striker.
 
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At his age he’s not the player to build a future attack around.
We need to think in terms of the next 2-3 years.
I’d sell without worrying too much about it
 
Wouldn't sell Bruno for any amount of money. No matter who we replace him with we'd be significantly weaker.
 
Dazzmondo said:
Wouldn't sell Bruno for any amount of money. No matter who we replace him with we'd be significantly weaker.
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That's not necessarily true. Statistically we may not be replacing him with a player that can match his output but as a team we could be more solid and create and score more. The burden of replacing his output will be spread across multiple players. With that being said, I have no qualms with him staying, I like Bruno but he's not irreplaceable nor his he that good we'd be so much weaker because of him leaving.
 
devilsadvoca8 said:
That's not necessarily true. Statistically we may not be replacing him with a player that can match his output but as a team we could be more solid and create and score more. The burden of replacing his output will be spread across multiple players. With that being said, I have no qualms with him staying, I like Bruno but he's not irreplaceable nor his he that good we'd be so much weaker because of him leaving.
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agreed
 
devilsadvoca8 said:
That's not necessarily true. Statistically we may not be replacing him with a player that can match his output but as a team we could be more solid and create and score more. The burden of replacing his output will be spread across multiple players. With that being said, I have no qualms with him staying, I like Bruno but he's not irreplaceable nor his he that good we'd be so much weaker because of him leaving.
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I completely disagree. He's one of the most creative players in the world and as usual people massively overestimate how many elite players there actually are in football. We'd be going backwards and be significantly weaker imo.
 
Dazzmondo said:
I completely disagree. He's one of the most creative players in the world and as usual people massively overestimate how many elite players there actually are in football. We'd be going backwards and be significantly weaker imo.
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How many teams have a player of Brunos type in their team? How many of those teams produce more attacking wise? Theres your answer. The whinging about where we would be without him gets a bit creepy at this point. I mean, we all know that he is one of very few players in our squad who at least contribute a bit of keeping us a relevant team. But look where it got us. We ended on the 8th place. What do you think would happen, if he would go? End up even lower? If yes - surely not just because of Bruno.
 
dinostar77 said:
https://www.teamtalk.com/manchester...bruno-fernandes-talks-star-favoured-next-club

Exclusive: Man Utd give Saudis permission to begin Bruno Fernandes talks as star selects favoured next club
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Over the years we've tried to shop a lot of players who've told us to do one. Last summer we were willing to sell Maguire and McTominay, neither of whom wanted to go.

Doesn't matter if we accept the offer from Saudi, if Bruno doesn't want to go he won't. I doubt, at 30 years old, Bruno wants to to Saudi. He probably thinks he can do that in a few years time.

My concerns with rumours like this is not that Bruno will go to Saudi. Its that Bruno will take this as a serious greenlight to force a way out to a club he actually wants to join, a club that won't pay anywhere near what a Saudi club might. Similarly to how Ashley Young forced his way out. Would be a sad end to his United career.
 
NZT-One said:
How many teams have a player of Brunos type in their team? How many of those teams produce more attacking wise? Theres your answer. The whinging about where we would be without him gets a bit creepy at this point. I mean, we all know that he is one of very few players in our squad who at least contribute a bit of keeping us a relevant team. But look where it got us. We ended on the 8th place. What do you think would happen, if he would go? End up even lower? If yes - surely not just because of Bruno.
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Yes, I think that would be quite possible
 
Dazzmondo said:
Yes, I think that would be quite possible
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It is a possibility. But it is also a possibility with him in the team. As the 8th place suggests. I personally don't get it. What value is in a 5th or 4th place finish next year when its still clear we aren't moving forward as a team?* Some of you guys are so adamant with pointing out that Bruno is in league of his own with KDB. Means theres just one team out there having a player in that position of that calibre. Yet 10 teams JUST IN OUR league have a more productive attack than we do. So to any sane person, there has to be the conclusion that such a player isn't the be all and end all in terms of productivity. It is just as short-sighted as talking about "who can we bring in that replaces Brunos numbers" - we have Brunos numbers since 5 years and they haven't made us a great team. So whether he stays or leaves - we still have to get better as a team and selling him for a good amount could enable to bring in 2 or maybe 3 players with the potential of becoming fantastic in 2 to 4 years. As I said - I really don't get how some of you are so stuck looking at just one season ahead. This thinking got us Maguire, Varane, Casemiro, Ronaldo, maybe even Antony - "the missing piece" to getting competetive, worked wonderful so far

edit: I obviously don't say that Bruno himself is hindering this development. We could develop with him in the team. But without the possible funds, it is more difficult to bring in more players that are expected to peak in 2 or 3 years.
 
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