Bruno Fernandes against the Premier League Top 6 sides

roonster09 said:
Wouldn't be surprised if some of the posters are the ones on twitter with dedicated player worshipping accounts, just praise 1 player and shit on every other player.
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It’s like fans forget exactly what we’ve had to put up with the last 7 years. You only have to go back to the tumescent game at anfield 2 years ago under joses last game.

We never had someone like Bruno who used to lose the ball back then because we never bloody had the ball to lose! We were always parked on the edge of our box.
 
jem said:
Yeah but in the case of Leicester, I would say they are definitely a better team than Arsenal, Big 6 designation or not.
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After nearly 12 months of excellence I think we should allow Bruno the recent dips in his form. We know how consistently brilliant he can be, has been and will be again. Bruno is the reason for our upsurge in form and for the other players improvement. I find it absolutely ridiculous that some people are complaining about him.
 
Bruno done ok.

We cant keep bashing our best players in this manner.

He came very close with a free kick and made Alison make a great save. He's a danger - end of

They were worse performances from us.

A midfield 2 of Fred and McTominey is so poor - neither can pass forward or dictate the play from deep. Our midfield has such little balance

It's not fair to expect Bruno to be 8 or 9 out of 10 every single game when players around him are underperforming or just flat out not good enough
 
VeevaVee said:
Exactly this. People are focussing on Bruno, when it’s just us as a team who play shit against the big teams.
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Are we just going to ignore we won at places like Tottenham, Chelsea, Arsenal in the honeymoon period and beat teams like Man City away all in one year before he came? 58% passing accuracy. Whose fault is that? The team's??

You might get away with it against the West Broms and Burnleys of this world but that kick and rush football will never work in a big games. Infact with every loss of possesion youre basically starting an attack for the other team.

Arguably there should be a strong case for him to be dropped in big games. Sometimes it looks like he is playing against us
 
Not his best game but still had the freekick and our 2nd best chance of the game. Generally the more of the ball he sees the better. Undeniably though it is becoming a thing that he isnt winning us games against more able opposition.
 
Kita said:
He was attempting heroic passes today and also switching play a ton when not needed. Not the greatest performance but you have to put him out there in case he does have that moment of brilliance. Great FK today too.
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Can't be a great FK if it doesn't hit the target. A poor freekick on target can still result in a goal.. you get the jist.
 
Canagel said:
Are we just going to ignore we won at places like Tottenham, Chelsea, Arsenal in the honeymoon period and beat teams like Man City away all in one year before he came?
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It’s clear though that the big sides have woken up to this tactic though, and it’s less effective than the surprise it gave many during the honeymoon.
 
Canagel said:
Are we just going to ignore we won at places like Tottenham, Chelsea, Arsenal in the honeymoon period and beat teams like Man City away all in one year before he came? 58% passing accuracy. Whose fault is that? The team's??

You might get away with it against the West Broms and Burnleys of this world but that kick and rush football will never work in a big games. Infact with every loss of possesion youre basically starting an attack for the other team.

Arguably there should be a strong case for him to be dropped in big games. Sometimes it looks like he is playing against us
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Ole’s honeymoon period? Not sure what that has to do with this? That clearly wasn’t our level. You think we were better off without him?

He had a poor game, like 9 of the others, big whoop
 
Chief123 said:
It’s like fans forget exactly what we’ve had to put up with the last 7 years. You only have to go back to the tumescent game at anfield 2 years ago under joses last game.

We never had someone like Bruno who used to lose the ball back then because we never bloody had the ball to lose! We were always parked on the edge of our box.
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You are simply showing that we have improved as a team, but what does this have to do with why Bruno loses the ball? He's not the reason we had more (and marginally so) possession in yesterday's game.
 
Ekeke said:
De Bruyne was a gambler before City signed him too. Pep calmed him down. So thats not it
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This is my opinion too, and I said so in a previous thread on a similar argument. Bruno is actually a good enough player with the ball if he calms down more and doesn't try to make something happen with every touch. It can be specifically coached. Pretty much same with Rashford and setting off on a run with every possession.
 
Bruno and Grealish in our side, with a DM who's competent on the ball, and it'll be such a different story. Keep and pass the ball properly across the middle of the park and this particular Bruno problem flies out of the window sharpish.
 
Hasn’t done it against the big clubs yet. But neither have we as a club this season. His form has been worrying me for a few weeks now. Looks like he needs a break. Pogba has stepped up, give VDB a chance for the next game & let Bruno rest.
 
Canagel said:
Lingard has scored in a cup final for the club while Bruno has gone missing in 4 semi finals and bottles every big game. So you're right maybe they deserve Lingard
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Been on the caf for years and this is generally the worst post I’ve ever seen.

You can’t be serious.
 
He reminds me a lot of Rooney in terms of general play. Very inconsistent with it.

He was fine last year so I think it’s more of a form thing.

The problem he’s having now is he’s not even making just simple passes but he’ll improve he’s a winner.

We can afford to lose it where he plays anyway.

Also let’s not forget he will adapt more, he’s not even been in the league a year yet.
 
Also does anyone who watches the Portuguese league know if he did this for sporting?
 
Become a victim of his own success. We’re desperate for him to perform every game now. None of the attackers have covered themselves in glory in the big games, all very disjointed, selfish, and too many pop shots straight down the keepers throat. It’s about time they returned the favour and picked up the slack for him, as he has done on many occasions for the others.

Can imagine he always wants to play, but I think this is one of those situations right now where a couple games rest against smaller teams would be good.

Nowt wrong with criticising him, but think some of the posts proper slagging him off are strange, considering up to recently he has been the one consistent piece of the puzzle.
 
Probably not that fair bearing in mind we've been an absolute non entity in the big games this season.

I hope this doesn't become a classic fickle fan way of playing down someone who has become the most influential player in the league.
 
Another explanation is that he carries too much of the creative burden and vs the better teams it becomes almost impossible to pull it off when his teammates are not doing their fair share.

Not saying hes been brilliant lately, but pretty much all of our attackers are in pretty bad form right now and if they could provide more treath then Bruno would also get more space
 
Canagel said:
Are we just going to ignore we won at places like Tottenham, Chelsea, Arsenal in the honeymoon period and beat teams like Man City away all in one year before he came? 58% passing accuracy. Whose fault is that? The team's??

You might get away with it against the West Broms and Burnleys of this world but that kick and rush football will never work in a big games. Infact with every loss of possesion youre basically starting an attack for the other team.

Arguably there should be a strong case for him to be dropped in big games. Sometimes it looks like he is playing against us
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Sure, you'd like to see him adjust his game in those situations, he'll grow as a player for it. But that doesn't change the fact he's had a totally transformative effect on this team, that is bleeding obvious just from the results, as well as from what you can observe on the pitch. There was no path forward from the honeymoon results with the same team, subsequent event showed that beyond discussion. Even yesterday, he had two of our three best chances.
 
redmanx said:
After nearly 12 months of excellence I think we should allow Bruno the recent dips in his form. We know how consistently brilliant he can be, has been and will be again. Bruno is the reason for our upsurge in form and for the other players improvement. I find it absolutely ridiculous that some people are complaining about him.
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Oh you'll find no complaints from me. I shudder to think where we would be without Bruno.
 
MyOnlySolskjaer said:
I think before I even start this discussion, I must stress that I think Bruno is fantastic and he's a massive factor in why we are where we are. I'm not here trying to make a Bruno bashing thread.

There may be a number of reasons why he may not be showing his quality in these games, but his performances alone have been very questionable, he's a player we're trusting with the free role and his decision making in these games have been pretty poor and we know the player he is and his lack of willingness to play the easy pass. Is this something we should be worried about for these games? We're already going into these games with conservative passers in Fred and McTominay so I'm not sure if he feels a need to overcompensate that with risky passes. What are your thoughts?
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It's called cowardly set up by the manager, as we have only scored once in 6 games this season against our fellow top 6 sides and thats on the set up and Ole fans can whine and blame players all they want, its on him (ole) as he sets up so bloody defensive against top teams its sicken given the bullshit that comes out of his mouth about playing "the utd way".
 
cyberman said:
I genuinley didnt realise.
This season does affect things, the top 6 is the best top 6 in the league. To the point City have the grand total of 0 wins v the top 6.
Why is Chelsea harder to play against then Everton? Arsenal over Villa?
It makes no sense.
Traditional top 6 is a useless stat to bring up to be honest. Chelsea and Arsenal are not among the best top 6 sides in the league.
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The traditional top 6 tend to have the best squads with the best players and most potential for growth within a game, most potential to raise your game. If you look at the points over the past 5 years, its a huge gap from 6th to 7th.
  1. City - 423
  2. Liverpool - 407
  3. Spurs - 363
  4. Chelsea - 351
  5. United - 348
  6. Arsenal - 335
  7. Leicester - 286
Yes, in this individual season so far Aston Villa and Everton and Leicester have done well. They're still lesser players overall for the most part compared to the squads from the traditional top 6, and in those big games you never know if they'll step up.

Look at United. We beat Villa but couldn't get a win against either Chelsea or Arsenal. They felt like big games and our set up in them was a big game set up, while our set up vs Villa was a setup where we expect to dominate and win.
 
bosnian_red said:
The traditional top 6 tend to have the best squads with the best players and most potential for growth within a game, most potential to raise your game. If you look at the points over the past 5 years, its a huge gap from 6th to 7th.
  1. City - 423
  2. Liverpool - 407
  3. Spurs - 363
  4. Chelsea - 351
  5. United - 348
  6. Arsenal - 335
  7. Leicester - 286
Yes, in this individual season so far Aston Villa and Everton and Leicester have done well. They're still lesser players overall for the most part compared to the squads from the traditional top 6, and in those big games you never know if they'll step up.

Look at United. We beat Villa but couldn't get a win against either Chelsea or Arsenal. They felt like big games and our set up in them was a big game set up, while our set up vs Villa was a setup where we expect to dominate and win.
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I like this narrative... there is a huge gap between 6th to 7th of 49 points but the gap between 2 to 3 is just as big.. 44 points.. 5 points gap over 5 seasons isn't much.
 
Canagel said:
Are we just going to ignore we won at places like Tottenham, Chelsea, Arsenal in the honeymoon period and beat teams like Man City away all in one year before he came? 58% passing accuracy. Whose fault is that? The team's??

You might get away with it against the West Broms and Burnleys of this world but that kick and rush football will never work in a big games. Infact with every loss of possesion youre basically starting an attack for the other team.

Arguably there should be a strong case for him to be dropped in big games. Sometimes it looks like he is playing against us
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Yeah lets start Perreira there or someone who doesn't lose the ball a lot and doesn't take risks.

Who should start then?
 
Sometimes he gets targeted. There was one game in particular where a team took turns fouling Bruno Fernandes every time he got the ball - I can't quite remember who it was but he had little niggles, pushes in the back, kicks, that sort of thing and they got away with it. He is clearly our danger man, so the key, basically, is to add players around him so that when he has an off day or the opposition deliberately targets him then we have alternatives to step up. At the minute, Martial, Pogba, Greenwood etc really offer us nothing in those sorts of games so if you stop Bruno you stop us.
 
When we play another ‘top team’ obviously their players will be better and Ole goes a bit defensive tactically. Bruno has two on him most of the time and gets kicked a lot plus he’s probably knackered. Who shines anyway against the so called top teams?
 
bosnian_red said:
The traditional top 6 tend to have the best squads with the best players and most potential for growth within a game, most potential to raise your game. If you look at the points over the past 5 years, its a huge gap from 6th to 7th.
  1. City - 423
  2. Liverpool - 407
  3. Spurs - 363
  4. Chelsea - 351
  5. United - 348
  6. Arsenal - 335
  7. Leicester - 286
Yes, in this individual season so far Aston Villa and Everton and Leicester have done well. They're still lesser players overall for the most part compared to the squads from the traditional top 6, and in those big games you never know if they'll step up.

Look at United. We beat Villa but couldn't get a win against either Chelsea or Arsenal. They felt like big games and our set up in them was a big game set up, while our set up vs Villa was a setup where we expect to dominate and win.
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But todays top 6 is still the best top 6 in the league. The same way Bruno had a great record against the top 6 from last season, he has a good record against this seasons top 6.
I just cant get my ahead around the fact fans are putting Chelsea above Aston Villa in terms of tough sides to play. It simply doesnt make sense.
I dont care that Chelsea or Arsenal had a good points total 12 months ago. Sheff Utd finished 5 pts off top 6 last year. They both came to OT and played as mid table sides that Villa etc put to shame.
Say we played Chelsea yesterday, drew 0-0 and stayed ten points ahead of them while they stay mid table. What does that prove if Bruno goes away to Everton and smacks in 2 goals? Surely Everton are the better side?
Its just meaningless stats that has arbitrary goalposts applied that lessens the meaning of the stat anyway
 
He was really poor yesterday, nearly scored a great free kick, forced a good save of Allison and setup the two on one for Rashford and Cavani. Even when he's shit he creates. Maybe we should start looking why are forwards aren't delivering. Bruno is a creative midfielder with outstanding stats are insane. 15 goals and 9 assists so far this season.
He's dragged us along and we are fortunate to have him. Should be more questions about others like Martial ect. Done nothing this season, the caf always finds a way.
 
Offsideagain said:
When we play another ‘top team’ obviously their players will be better and Ole goes a bit defensive tactically. Bruno has two on him most of the time and gets kicked a lot plus he’s probably knackered. Who shines anyway against the so called top teams?
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Pretty much, our setup in these games isn't great for a player like Bruno. He's also a high risk player which when you've got the ball lots is fine but in these games every time you lose the ball it's a big deal because the rest are already constantly losing it.
 
I think it’s quite clear Fernandes needs a rest as he plays every game whether it be in the league, Europe or domestic cups.

With our next game (Fulham ?) being an away game and then Liverpool at home in the FA Cup it’s likely Fernandes will play both games but I think after that it’s Sheffield United at home so I’d rest Fernandes in that game so he’s fresh for the Arsenal game.

You’d like to think that in Pogba, VDB, Rashford, Martial, Greenwood, Mata and Diallo we’d have enough to get past Sheffield United at home without Fernandes playing a single minute and giving him a whole weeks rest between Liverpool and Arsenal.

To be honest though Fernandes is a bit of a maverick so will try Hollywood passes and attempt things no one else does which won’t always come off especially against the best teams, we went from playing awful one dimensional football that even if Fernandes only pulls off one or two important things a game I’d be happy as it would be the different between a win and a loss or draw.
 
cyberman said:
But todays top 6 is still the best top 6 in the league. The same way Bruno had a great record against the top 6 from last season, he has a good record against this seasons top 6.
I just cant get my ahead around the fact fans are putting Chelsea above Aston Villa in terms of tough sides to play. It simply doesnt make sense.
I dont care that Chelsea or Arsenal had a good points total 12 months ago. Sheff Utd finished 5 pts off top 6 last year. They both came to OT and played as mid table sides that Villa etc put to shame.
Say we played Chelsea yesterday, drew 0-0 and stayed ten points ahead of them while they stay mid table. What does that prove if Bruno goes away to Everton and smacks in 2 goals? Surely Everton are the better side?
Its just meaningless stats that has arbitrary goalposts applied that lessens the meaning of the stat anyway
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Its a pretty meaningless stat of course, but its as good as there is for judging how a player does in big games. There's so much variability within a season on who is in the top 6 at a certain time, and even as you say, Sheffield United were up there with a good run last year but will now be relegated. There's an established top 6 that year after year tends to be the actual top 6, with the occasional exception but generally gets pretty close anyway.

And yes there are other hard games like Everton away or Leicester away. That doesn't make them bigger games than playing Arsenal/Chelsea/Spurs/Liverpool or City though. There's more pressure on these games, more people watching around the world, more focus on it and generally more intensity to them.
 
kopviolator said:
He had a bad game. So did Rashford. No need to string them up.

They will come good, but they both look like they need a rest. I also wonder if Rashford's head is at the right place.
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Why would Rashford's head not be at the right place? But I agree that he and Bruno could probably use a rest.
 
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