[CM]

Well we’ve only played 14. It’s not as if he’s been brilliant for two seasons prior.

And I agree, I couldn’t have asked for a better signing in January. He’s our best #10, agreed too. The competition is Lingard and Pereira. I don’t think he’d necessarily be our best 10 if we signed Jack Grealish, however, who has a lot more quality than Lingard and Pereira.

Anyway, I’ve said what I’ve said. Time will tell the rest. Knowing the caf I’m probably about two posts shy of being put in some sort of ‘Bruno hater’ camp.

Fair enough. It wasn't my intention to put him in the same category as de Bruyne in my initial post, though I expect he will prove himself to be a step or two above someone like Grealish next season.

Even still, there's something to be said for a player who can still produce on a bad day. Putting up good numbers does count for something, and if you strip away the penalties and he still has a few assists in the last few games.

 

[bosnian_red]

When you take into account injury time since the restart (over 38 days), he's started all 11 games and played 1053 minutes. 95.7 minutes every 3.45 days. For a player who runs like mad, thats a crazy amount of minutes and it's testament to his fitness that he didn't get injured during this period.

 

[VP89]

Well we’ve only played 14. It’s not as if he’s been brilliant for two seasons prior.

And I agree, I couldn’t have asked for a better signing in January. He’s our best #10, agreed too. The competition is Lingard and Pereira. I don’t think he’d necessarily be our best 10 if we signed Jack Grealish, however, who has a lot more quality than Lingard and Pereira.

Anyway, I’ve said what I’ve said. Time will tell the rest. Knowing the caf I’m probably about two posts shy of being put in some sort of ‘Bruno hater’ camp.

But Grealish doesn't even play as a 10 for Villa. How can you be so sure he'll be a better 10 than Bruno?

 

[Eckers99]

Well we’ve only played 14. It’s not as if he’s been brilliant for two seasons prior.

And I agree, I couldn’t have asked for a better signing in January. He’s our best #10, agreed too. The competition is Lingard and Pereira. I don’t think he’d necessarily be our best 10 if we signed Jack Grealish, however, who has a lot more quality than Lingard and Pereira.

Anyway, I’ve said what I’ve said. Time will tell the rest. Knowing the caf I’m probably about two posts shy of being put in some sort of ‘Bruno hater’ camp.

What you're saying isn't that ludicrous so I doubt you'll be assigned to the Caf leper colony.

A lot of people can see he's been poor for the last few games and if they were coming during normal circumstances maybe there would be cause for concern. But we've seen the other side of his game - when he wasn't running on empty - so I reckon it's reasonable to put it down to fatigue.

 

[Rozay]

But Grealish doesn't even play as a 10 for Villa. How can you be so sure he'll be a better 10 than Bruno?

Villa obviously don’t have the luxury of playing with a #10. But just as obvious is the type of player Grealish is, he’s not what you’d call a ‘winger’. And I didn’t say he’d be better than Bruno, and certainly not ‘sure’ of it. What my position is, is that they are of comparable talent, and can both put up ‘numbers’. If Grealish were to be signed, in a pure meritocracy, I don’t believe there will be some automatic establishment of him as a back up and Bruno the starter. They are both in a similar bracket of player to me, and the whole ‘leadership/drive’ thing can’t even be used against Grealish. He is similarly talismanic for his team, and then moving to the pure footballing talent, I don’t think Bruno is better, personally.

 

[rotherham_red]

Again, it’s about me using my eyes. I’m not against KDB or Bruno taking risks. What separates them as players for me is not their pass completions, it is simply ability. De Bruyne pulls things off that I don’t see others capable of doing. Bruno doesn’t, for me. Which is why I think De Bruyne is better. Nothing to do with passing stats, it’s just calibre, for me. I’m yet to actually see Bruno pull off the level of genius that De Bruyne cam, even if he has misplaced 20 passes prior. His 21st still isn’t of the capability of De Bruyne. I think only Pogba and Ozil can pull off some of that level of pass. Nothing to do with general completion, just focusing on level of genius.

And I agree with you that Bruno has been talismanic. But that isn’t a footballing talent. He has been the talisman we needed, undoubtedly. But I can see that the actual quality isn’t at the same standard as his leadership. There are some parallels to the praise McTominay was getting earlier for me. It was all for intangible ‘drive, leadership, character’ etc, and I’d say similar about Henderson at Liverpool this season. All are good players, but I don’t think they are the top bracket of talent. Their value is made up of other things, of course, but ultimately, I get the feeling that if a better player came along, they could be replaced.

Yesterday I was mentioning James Rodriguez with someone as an alternative 10 option to Grealish, which was generally pissed on. Name one football ability Bruno is better at than James. Because I don’t think there is any, personally. Pressing, perhaps.

We'll have to agree to disagree.

It has only been 20 games that Bruno has been here, with very little time available by the way of adaptation and settling in. He has already directly contributed to 18 goals in that timespan, and while a lot of them have been relatively simple actions, they were actions which our alternatives were not doing.

The proof will be in the pudding when he gets to the CL, but considering what he was able to do with a limited supporting cast against teams like City, Spurs, Chelsea et al I don't have much in the way of doubts.

Tbqhwy I don't really put KDB down as an attacking midfielder in the strictest sense of the word. He does his best work in the half spaces out wide and the bulk of his assists are crosses in high percentage areas. He's mastered that art, and he's amazing at it but if you look at where Bruno does his best work and where KDB does his, it's two very different areas.

Look for example, at these two compilations of their passing, and you can notice the difference within a minute or two's viewing of each:





It's up to your individual preference in terms of which you like the most, but I can see enough glimpses of real quality in Bruno's time here thus far and in the video above to be at least semi-confident that he's at least a comparable talent to KDB.

Also, re James Rodriguez - I'd say the raw numbers in terms of end product from James at Porto (in a much better team) compared to Bruno's at Sporting would put that argument to bed in an instant.

 

[Adam-Utd]

Well he obviously hasn’t, because most games have been ‘he was poor today, BUT’. If you took the emotion out of it, it is unlikely to be good enough. Especially if the but was he scored a penalty.

is your memory only 2 weeks long?

Yes the last 3 games he's not been at his best but he has a LOT more before that to back it up.

Do you seriously think that was just a "new signing bounce" and now this is his real quality? not a chance IMO.

Tiredness really can effect performance levels that much, and he seems the determined type to try and force it more than relaxing. That's fine, he will adjust eventually.

 

[Rozay]

What you're saying isn't that ludicrous so I doubt you'll be assigned to the Caf leper colony.

A lot of people can see he's been poor for the last few games and if they were coming during normal circumstances maybe there would be cause for concern. But we've seen the other side of his game - when he wasn't running on empty - so I reckon it's reasonable to put it down to fatigue.

Yea, that is an opinion. But mine isn’t really based upon these last few games in isolation. I’d be a lot less kind with my words if I were judging him solely off the last 5 games. He’s been less than the ‘good player’ I’ve given him in that period.

To me, even during the greatest spell anyone wants to pick, I still don’t believe he is a player of the very top bracket. I think there’s a massive amount of context to be applied. Firstly, football has an obsession with transfers in general. He came in, and we went from not getting results to getting results. Once that was happening, anything else was a debate for another day. There were replays and analysis of just forward passes and occupying good spaces. Again, I’d like to repeat - I think he is good. Not average, and not poor. So I expect there to be highlights in his game. Just that, even during the ‘good spell’, I didn’t really see any De Bruyne or Pogba level passes, or David Silva (or Bernardo Silva even) level general play. Which is fine, I’m not throwing the player away because of that. I’m just saying that I haven’t seen the ability of one of the best in the world. We’ve all grown up watching great 10s, it was a feature of the game in previous years. I know what I expect to see from a world-class 10, and won’t be sold some new narrative where stats are forced down my throat.

I’m mainly looking forward. I don’t see us as a team that can’t put any points on the board with average players in the long run, so I’m not putting too much emphasis on United going from that to what we are now. I’ve used the comparison before, but I see him at an Eriksen level player. Eriksen could obviously play for us, or any top side. He’d be an asset, but a Real or Bayern would never be ‘built around’ (to use a phrase I hate) a player of that calibre. Bayern or Real, I imagine, would far rather sign Havertz than Bruno for example. He looks the type of world-class individual talent that could make the difference at the very top end.

 

[Stacks]

We'll have to agree to disagree.

It has only been 20 games that Bruno has been here, with very little time available by the way of adaptation and settling in. He has already directly contributed to 18 goals in that timespan, and while a lot of them have been relatively simple actions, they were actions which our alternatives were not doing.

The proof will be in the pudding when he gets to the CL, but considering what he was able to do with a limited supporting cast against teams like City, Spurs, Chelsea et al I don't have much in the way of doubts.

Tbqhwy I don't really put KDB down as an attacking midfielder in the strictest sense of the word. He does his best work in the half spaces out wide and the bulk of his assists are crosses in high percentage areas. He's mastered that art, and he's amazing at it but if you look at where Bruno does his best work and where KDB does his, it's two very different areas.

Look for example, at these two compilations of their passing, and you can notice the difference within a minute or two's viewing of each:





It's up to your individual preference in terms of which you like the most, but I can see enough glimpses of real quality in Bruno's time here thus far and in the video above to be at least semi-confident that he's at least a comparable talent to KDB.

Also, re James Rodriguez - I'd say the raw numbers in terms of end product from James at Porto (in a much better team) compared to Bruno's at Sporting would put that argument to bed in an instant.

you should probably watch more than the 2 minutes because De Bruyne executes all the types of passes that Bruno was doing later on. There are many things De Bruyne can do really well that Bruno cannot but not the other way around so I don't see them as comparable.

 

[rotherham_red]

you should probably watch more than the 2 minutes because De Bruyne executes all the types of passes that Bruno was doing later on. There are many things De Bruyne can do really well that Bruno cannot but not the other way around so I don't see them as comparable.

Like I said to Rozay, we'll agree to disagree.

I'm not saying that KDB can't do what Bruno does and vice versa, I'm saying that the bulk of his best work is is in those half spaces in the left/right channels. Bruno's is much more centrally focused. Of course there are instances when he's done well in central channels and likewise so has Bruno in the wide channels, but there is a clear divergence between the two in the areas that they like to operate in.

 

[Adam-Utd]

Bruno was hitting most of those passes in the games he wasn't completely wiped out.

Since Southampton his form has dipped and he's been visibly tired, that's no coincidence.

The guy still runs like a maniac even when blowing, there was a counter attack in the 2nd half where we got left 3v2 and Bruno was the first midfield back, says it all.

It would be interesting to see how they fared if they swapped teams.

 

[romufc]

You know you have a player on your hands when the rivals start mocking him.

My mate sent me a video on twitter with the title "Look at this guys goals and assists. This is the definition of stat padding"

Goes on and shows videos of all his penalties and passes to Martial and Greenwood. I remember the same sort of stuff we used to see when Ronaldo was at United.

Been a while since the rivals have got really wound up by one of our players.

 

[SoCross]

He's not in De Bruynes tier, which is fine. The guy is on a level of his own in terms of midfielders. But in the tier below, Bruno is right up there along with anyone IMO. And of course its fatigue that kicked in, he's played a crazy amount of football over 1 month. Wouldn't say its a purple patch either, as he essentially carried on the same form he showed for the previous 1.5 seasons at Sporting, and the question was could he carry on the same level of effectiveness (which he has).

His workrate, attitude, mentality, drive, and leadership are all amazing and its been a massive benefit to us, as everyone has stepped it up a few levels since he came in and is the reason we went from a team who looked like we'd struggle to stay top 6 to a team who finished 3rd. Top of the league over 14 games since he joined the club. That impact can't be overstated. And you can't even say its due to fixtures, as since he joined the club, we played away to Chelsea, away to Leicester, away to Spurs and home to City during that run. Almost half a season. He's just turned us around and been the reason so many of those tight games have turned into wins where before we would drop points.

Have you seen KDB when he's had poor games? Southampton away this season for a start, or the more recent game against Arsenal in the FA Cup Semi? Every bit as bad (probably a little worse if I'm being honest) than any of Bruno's.

Good or even great players can have bad games from time to time. It happens. Even Messi and Ronaldo have had them.

Think I was a bit misunderstood, what I was trying to tell was that that the last few games can leave behind an impression of a player who isn’t at the very top tier.

It’s too soon to tell which level he’s on but if he can produce at this rate and inspire us to get into the CL already, I’m looking forward to what Bruno will be able to do for United.

 

[Eckers99]

Yea, that is an opinion. But mine isn’t really based upon these last few games in isolation. I’d be a lot less kind with my words if I were judging him solely off the last 5 games. He’s been less than the ‘good player’ I’ve given him in that period.

To me, even during the greatest spell anyone wants to pick, I still don’t believe he is a player of the very top bracket. I think there’s a massive amount of context to be applied. Firstly, football has an obsession with transfers in general. He came in, and we went from not getting results to getting results. Once that was happening, anything else was a debate for another day. There were replays and analysis of just forward passes and occupying good spaces. Again, I’d like to repeat - I think he is good. Not average, and not poor. So I expect there to be highlights in his game. Just that, even during the ‘good spell’, I didn’t really see any De Bruyne or Pogba level passes, or David Silva (or Bernardo Silva even) level general play. Which is fine, I’m not throwing the player away because of that. I’m just saying that I haven’t seen the ability of one of the best in the world. We’ve all grown up watching great 10s, it was a feature of the game in previous years. I know what I expect to see from a world-class 10, and won’t be sold some new narrative where stats are forced down my throat.

I’m mainly looking forward. I don’t see us as a team that can’t put any points on the board with average players in the long run, so I’m not putting too much emphasis on United going from that to what we are now. I’ve used the comparison before, but I see him at an Eriksen level player. Eriksen could obviously play for us, or any top side. He’d be an asset, but a Real or Bayern would never be ‘built around’ (to use a phrase I hate) a player of that calibre. Bayern or Real, I imagine, would far rather sign Havertz than Bruno for example. He looks the type of world-class individual talent that could make the difference at the very top end.

A peak-Eriksen level player is good enough for us right now and a considerable step up from the shite we've had over the past 6 or 7 years. Plus Fernandes' attitude is genuinely top level, so his impact upon the team was almost worth as much as his individual contributions. There's nothing wrong with wanting even better but it's all gradual improvements from now isn't it? And us targeting players like Sancho shows we're after top level talent.

 

[Eugenius]

I'm not convinced he's tier 1 world class like de bruyne, but it doesn't matter. He's the best we could have bought and he's turned us from a europa team into CL team. He's also the right character and profile for the team.

We need to focus on buying someone who can play the #10 role to a similar level to give him some rest occasionally.

 

[DoomSlayer]

This guy is going to destroy the league next season. This was just the settling in period, I expect us to click even more as a team as well and add more quality to the squad.

 

[VP89]

You know you have a player on your hands when the rivals start mocking him.

My mate sent me a video on twitter with the title "Look at this guys goals and assists. This is the definition of stat padding"

Goes on and shows videos of all his penalties and passes to Martial and Greenwood. I remember the same sort of stuff we used to see when Ronaldo was at United.

Been a while since the rivals have got really wound up by one of our players.

Rivals hate him. I recall the Leicester forum was saying how a "dodgy Bruno pen" can cost them. Then when Bruno played Martial through they were talking about how the ref was in our pockets

 

[mu4c_20le]

I'm not convinced he's tier 1 world class like de bruyne, but it doesn't matter. He's the best we could have bought and he's turned us from a europa team into CL team. He's also the right character and profile for the team.

We need to focus on buying someone who can play the #10 role to a similar level to give him some rest occasionally.

Well, if he can repeat his best form next season, he will be putting up de bruyne numbers. With better pressing and leadership.

 

[Paul_Scholes18]

I have been frustrated with him in the last few games. Far too many poor passes. If we should do well in the really big games next season we can't give the ball away too easily.
I know he takes risk with his passing, but he needs to know better when to hold the ball and take smart risks. Movement around him have to improve too so he has more options and do not get
forced to go for stupid risks.
A pre season could be needed to find better cohesion between our attacking players. Now it is very short.
Hopefully we work on this now for EL. It is a good test for CL next season.

 

[Rozay]

A peak-Eriksen level player is good enough for us right now and a considerable step up from the shite we've had over the past 6 or 7 years. Plus Fernandes' attitude is genuinely top level, so his impact upon the team was almost worth as much as his individual contributions. There's nothing wrong with wanting even better but it's all gradual improvements from now isn't it? And us targeting players like Sancho shows we're after top level talent.

Absolutely mate, and he’s plenty good enough for us, as you said, especially considering what we had prior. But Eriksen himself would have been a huge step up from those clowns, but I’d have also felt that he wouldn’t necessarily be a fixture in the XI for years to come. He’s not a ‘Real and Barcelona build a team around’ level of player.

I’m only giving my initial report card really following his arrival, and he’s been very positive I agree. If we were Spurs, I’d see no way above him, however, for what I believe we are, I’m just saying I don’t think he’s that level. If Eriksen were a level above what he actually was, he’d have spent his entire Spurs career being courted and linked with a select few clubs. Just like Kane has. Instead there was a clear recognition that he was a very good player, but also where he needed to be. He could of course make the step up and join one of those elite few, but he’d have a different standing to what he had at Spurs there. He wouldn’t be their ‘star player’. And I don’t think Bruno has the quality to be ours from my first viewings. The general commentary around him would suggest he is, however me personally, wouldn’t be surprised if we had a better option within a couple of years - because you have to be in the very highest tier to not have that threat.

If you think of some of the players people have been asking to be upgraded. They are also good players! The likes of Martial, Shaw, Lindelöf. There’s a current implication that Bruno is a level above these guys. I disagree. Just like many people don’t see Martial being our main striker for many years to come, despite him clearly being a very good player - my sentiments towards Bruno are similar. I think he’ll eventually level out as a squad option who would play plenty of games here. If we actually get back to where we hope, he is the exact profile we need for that role I think. He’d be more than just some passion and commitment merchant like our squad players have often been, but also have real quality too. Just not the quality to pull of Pogba or De Bruyne level of outrageous - which is the sort of calibre I’d expect to be keeping him out of the team in a couple of years, not some any old Andreas Pereira.

 

[space]

He is amazing and even when he is tired, legit looking like he cannot move, he comes up with magic. He is also only 25 years old, I am very excited to watch him develop further. His work ethic is insane too and has put the rest of the team to shame in that sense; proper leader. He has changed everything about this club in a few months. I hope he has a long and great career here.

 

[Shimo]

Imo he'll have to get used to this. It's the nature of the PL and he's a matured player. We used to kick the sht out of other teams' big players as well, if necessary.

Agree to a degree. Ole said something about him having bit of a moan and that is something they will have to take out of him but, all managers also need to protect their star players. Like you said, we've done that in games past, did it to Hazard and because his managers made a point of brining it up enough, eventually we got punished for it

Since the VAR talk, refs stopped giving fouls against us, yesterday and against chelsea ref was very poor.

Exactly, the other managers did their bit to seed it into refs minds and as much we like to think they are objective, it's had an effect IMO. Ole needs to reverse that talk and ensure teams don't get away with fouling by committee on him.

 

[Sylar]

Not a good game, but to be expected given how hes pretty much carried us on his back up until that point.
Anybody else taking that penalty, I would have been nervous. Never had a doubt he would score which felt good.

Deserved rest upon him, and hopefully we dont see him until the next round of Europa.

 

[SportingCP96]

No. Bruno is genuine first team quality. Don't let fatigue induced performances change your mind. He is ridiculously crucial at this point.

Edit: Laughable opinion. Probably should not have replied to it.

Bench player/squad player?

He has been/is the best player at United and he’s only been there for 6 months.

Jesus some of you can be toxic at times.

 

[TheReligion]

I don't think he has enough quality to pull of the majority of the passes that he attempts. He often messes up simple passes as well. If Pogba was attempting as many as him he'd have a much higher success rate in my opinion. There needs to be a balance. Hopefully its just exhaustion. We will see next year, but I agree with @Rozay that ideally he would be a squad player/potent bench option.

Jesus that's an awful post.

 

[Adam-Utd]

Bench player/squad player?

He has been/is the best player at United and he’s only been there for 6 months.

Jesus some of you can be toxic at times.

Now you know the ridiculous expectations pogba and others have to deal with it’s like these kids think everything is a match on fifa.

 

[DoomSlayer]

Bench player/squad player?

He has been/is the best player at United and he’s only been there for 6 months.

Jesus some of you can be toxic at times.

Yeah, I strongly disagree Bruno will be a squad player, he is just entering his peak years. Just waiting for him to start smashing long range goals consistently and it will add another dimension to our attack.

 

[11101]

He's like Cantona. On pure ability he is a level below the very best, but hes got the drive and tenacity to keep on trying to make things happen that made the Frenchman the most important player this club has ever had.

Catalyst players like that dont need to be the best passer or the best dribbler in the world.

 

[Isotope]

He is amazing and even when he is tired, legit looking like he cannot move, he comes up with magic. He is also only 25 years old, I am very excited to watch him develop further. His work ethic is insane too and has put the rest of the team to shame in that sense; proper leader. He has changed everything about this club in a few months. I hope he has a long and great career here.

He's clicked in well with Martial, Rashford, and Pogba; three of our main players. Also Maguire now has someone who can whip in good corner for him. He never hides, and always takes responsibility; just reminds me of Keano and Cantona in different way.

Yes, I also hope he becomes a legend like these later two.

 

[RooneyLegend]

He's like Cantona. On pure ability he is a level below the very best, but hes got the drive and tenacity to keep on trying to make things happen that made the Frenchman the most important player this club has ever had.

Catalyst players like that dont need to be the best passer or the best dribbler in the world.

Cantona had elite ability, very few players were more talented than him.

 

[#07]

Cantona had elite ability, very few players were more talented than him.

Agreed. Eric Cantona was an artist on the pitch. He was easily the best player in the Premier League during the mid 90s. His ability was recognised across Europe too. The decision not to include him in France's Euro 96 squad generated controversy. Within and without England Cantona was respected.

As for Bruno:

 

[Web of Bissaka]

Why is he so humble and a bit shy?
"One player doesn't change the team"

Silently he knows the game alright and have silent burning passion inside.




I don't remember seeing this vid before. Didn't know he did that. Nice.

 

[FootyGirl88]

 

[sp_107]

Can he play as number 8 ? Lisbon coach also mentioned he is primed to play in that role but I am wondering if he really got that by the way he lose ball many times?

I do think Pogba in more advanced role can take his game to next level. so dont want Bruno blocking that.

 

[mav_9me]

The other thing is we haven't seen Bruno taking shots at goal from far. In Portugal that was one of his big strengths right?

 

[Goku23]

The other thing is we haven't seen Bruno taking shots at goal from far. In Portugal that was one of his big strengths right?

He did it once vs Everton and scored cant remember any others from that far out

 

[Rolaholic]

Bitter cnut

Love how people will focus on his penalties and totally ignore his FK, set piece and passing ability like they're not elite also

 

[romufc]

Bitter cnut

Love how people will focus on his penalties and totally ignore his FK, set piece and passing ability like they're not elite also

Yep, he is meant to miss the penalties. What is Bruno supposed to do? He played a through ball to Martial who is taken down by 2 players, If he scored Bruno gets the assist.

I have seen people on twitter talk about how he is a stat paddler and had videos of his pass to Martial which hit the top of the net and Pogba's goal V Villa saying they are easy assists.

The hate is really there.

 

[Rolaholic]

Yep, he is meant to miss the penalties. What is Bruno supposed to do? He played a through ball to Martial who is taken down by 2 players, If he scored Bruno gets the assist.

I have seen people on twitter talk about how he is a stat paddler and had videos of his pass to Martial which hit the top of the net and Pogba's goal V Villa saying they are easy assists.

The hate is really there.

I saw that vid doing the rounds on FT and they unsurprisingly cut out the worldies he's scored

Rival fans are treating him like Barcelona fans treated Ronaldo in Madrid and I'm all the way here for their tears

Being hated is part of our football heritage as a club as Jose would say.

I missed it over the last few years when we were treated more as a banter club ala Arsenal and Liverpool before Klopp but you can slowly see rival fans getting back to fearing and hating us as we get closer to being back to where we should be.

The crying and complaining about VAR or the height of the grass on the pitch when we have the likes of Sancho running at defenses with Bruno will be glorious hehe

 

[Glorio]

Proper player all day long. Look at his numbers this season (United plus Sporting), last season for Sporting, and the season before. And that's all from midfield!

Also consider there was a 3 month break before the resumption of the season which frankly takes the new player bounce out of the equation. Even when seemingly dead on his feet, he still made the difference at the business end of the pitch in most games. How many times did we say that about Ronaldo, Rooney, Ruud, etc?

If that's not a Tier-1 player, I don't know what is.